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Old
05-29-2011, 08:36 PM
  #26
TSA0402
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Originally Posted by Timzey View Post
am i missing something? has Rundblad proven anything in the NHL? Tednedby has, and the devils are providing the higher pick. if anything I think ottawa adds.
If Tedenby had hit 35-40 points in the first year of NHL I would agree. The fact is that Rundblad has done significantly better in Sweden and really Tedenby hasn't proven THAT much in the NHL.

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05-29-2011, 08:41 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asquaredx2 View Post
Tedenby has scored 8 goals in the NHL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
If Tedenby had hit 35-40 points in the first year of NHL I would agree. The fact is that Rundblad has done significantly better in Sweden and really Tedenby hasn't proven THAT much in the NHL.
8 goals playing extremely limited minutes, while showing flashes of brilliance... when you consider a player of his size always carries question marks about taking their games to next level. tednedby showed this year, that his size will not be an issue..

not going to speak badly about rundblad, he hasn't played in this league yet, which is why i really can't see the devils adding to the posters proposal... not saying its a terrible proposal at all, just that the devils shouldn't have to add anything.

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05-29-2011, 08:48 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
Good, cause Lou would never deal his pick for Rundblad. David is a solid hockey player but is he better then Huberdeau for example, who's two years and a couple of days younger then Rundblad? There's a big gap between a 17/18 year old and a 20 year old.

Whoever we pick at 4 will have more upside (and talent) then Rundblad in the future. If you are talking about the present, you are correct but the point of the draft is to land the BPA for the future, not the present
Lol at mentioning the difference in age but completely neglecting what Rundblad has done.

Only way I would trade Rundblad for the 4th overall is if Larsson is there, but I wouldn't expect NJD to do that anyway.

Rundblad has won what is considered the Norris trophy in the SEL and broke the record as the second leading defense man of ALL-TIME in terms of points. Continued it with 10 points in 18 playoff games. He also finished the season with a +5(To all those stating he is **** in defensive zone)

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05-29-2011, 08:51 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Timzey View Post
8 goals playing extremely limited minutes, while showing flashes of brilliance... when you consider a player of his size always carries question marks about taking their games to next level. tednedby showed this year, that his size will not be an issue..

not going to speak badly about rundblad, he hasn't played in this league yet, which is why i really can't see the devils adding to the posters proposal... not saying its a terrible proposal at all, just that the devils shouldn't have to add anything.
Fair enough. I understand and I'm not even certain that NJ should add either. That wasn't the main intention of my post. Just between the two players/picks. I find it interesting, although it will never happen.

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05-29-2011, 08:54 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
I wouldn't give you anything of value to move up from 6th to 4th because I still believe that both NJ & NYI have terrible defense corps' and well below average prospect pools on defense. One or both of you will be tempted to Murphy or Hamilton, because they are a part of the same tier of talent as guys like Couturier, Huberdeau, Landeskog and Strome.

Rundblad is a lot more than almost nothing of value and this deal is terrible for Ottawa.
Our terrible defense corps was ranked 8th in GAA this year.

I will agree that this proposal isn't one that Ottawa would consider accepting, but our defense really isn't as bad as a lot make it out to be. We lack a true #1 D-man and a PMD, but that's really it. As a whole, the defense isn't that bad. That being said, our prospect pool is one of the best we've had in many years, as Lou Lamoriello said himself. I'm sorry, but his opinion has more weight than yours.

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Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
Good, cause Lou would never deal his pick for Rundblad. David is a solid hockey player but is he better then Huberdeau for example, who's two years and a couple of days younger then Rundblad? There's a big gap between a 17/18 year old and a 20 year old.

Whoever we pick at 4 will have more upside (and talent) then Rundblad in the future. If you are talking about the present, you are correct but the point of the draft is to land the BPA for the future, not the present
Larsson is the only player in this draft that I wouldn't trade straight up for Rundblad. He's a top 5 prospect in the entire league. Huberdeau is a top 5 prospect in a weak draft. If you wouldn't trade Huberdeau for Rundblad, I'm sorry, but you're being ridiculous. What's the two year gap you're talking about? You think Huberdeau is going to make the Devils next year if he were drafted? It'll take at least one or two years, putting him in the very position Rundblad is in. If Larsson weren't around at pick #4, I'd trade it for Rundblad without question. I'm not sure if Ottawa would.

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05-29-2011, 08:54 PM
  #31
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Oh hey its a Sens thread with another "what has he proven in the NHL" thing. People, playing a year earlier does not make you better, Jesus. If your thoughts on this were the truth and how hockey actually works, then why doesn't everybody trade their prospects for players already in the NHL? Oh yeah, then you become the Leafs. Thats right.

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05-29-2011, 08:55 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Asquaredx2 View Post
Tedenby has scored 8 goals in the NHL.
Yeah but they were 8 really AWESOME goals.



Kind of hard to score when your coach plays you six minutes a game because he'd prefer to double shift Ilya Kovalchuk. Tedenby didn't have enough experience and Lemaire isn't a moron who's just going to throw a 21 year old out on the ice and tell him to try really hard. This was Tedenby's first year in North America, he had to learn defense and how to play in a structured system from one of the strictest coaches in history.

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05-29-2011, 09:57 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
Lol at mentioning the difference in age but completely neglecting what Rundblad has done.

Only way I would trade Rundblad for the 4th overall is if Larsson is there, but I wouldn't expect NJD to do that anyway.

Rundblad has won what is considered the Norris trophy in the SEL and broke the record as the second leading defense man of ALL-TIME in terms of points. Continued it with 10 points in 18 playoff games. He also finished the season with a +5(To all those stating he is **** in defensive zone)
I said that Rundblad was a very solid player but I don't think he has the same upside as anyone that would be available at the #4 spot in this years draft. It's hard to compare a 17/18 year old over a 20 year old cause that year and half doesn't make a big difference.... it makes a massive difference.


Quote:
Originally Posted by apice3 View Post
Larsson is the only player in this draft that I wouldn't trade straight up for Rundblad. He's a top 5 prospect in the entire league. Huberdeau is a top 5 prospect in a weak draft. If you wouldn't trade Huberdeau for Rundblad, I'm sorry, but you're being ridiculous. What's the two year gap you're talking about? You think Huberdeau is going to make the Devils next year if he were drafted? It'll take at least one or two years, putting him in the very position Rundblad is in. If Larsson weren't around at pick #4, I'd trade it for Rundblad without question. I'm not sure if Ottawa would.
You've been bashing Huberdeau for over a month now, so it's no surprise to see you talk that way about the kid.... and this draft is weak, really? It's funny that NHL scouts are finding the top of this draft class to be pretty solid, so I guess I'll take the word of a pro scout over a amateur.

Rundblad has put up some solid #'s in the SEL, good for him and the Senators. All I was saying is that Huberdeau can be just as good, if not better, when he'll be 20 years of age but he's currently 17 years old.

Once again, compairing two prospects that have a 2 year difference is almost impossible to do cause those years (17/18/19) are the hardest years to analyse a players progression. Jonathan was off the map last year and at the start of this year but his progression multiplied drastically and he's almost a lock to go top #3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllNightmareLong View Post
Oh hey its a Sens thread with another "what has he proven in the NHL" thing. People, playing a year earlier does not make you better, Jesus. If your thoughts on this were the truth and how hockey actually works, then why doesn't everybody trade their prospects for players already in the NHL? Oh yeah, then you become the Leafs. Thats right.

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05-29-2011, 11:24 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 View Post
Yeah but they were 8 really AWESOME goals.



Kind of hard to score when your coach plays you six minutes a game because he'd prefer to double shift Ilya Kovalchuk. Tedenby didn't have enough experience and Lemaire isn't a moron who's just going to throw a 21 year old out on the ice and tell him to try really hard. This was Tedenby's first year in North America, he had to learn defense and how to play in a structured system from one of the strictest coaches in history.
I'm not criticizing what Tedenby's done. Those are definitely valid points.

But the point is, he's not really "proven." I mean, do people really think Rundblad playing in the NHL in 2011-2012 won't have at least the same performance as what Tedenby did last season (or whatever the equivalent of 8 goals and 22 points is for a defenceman)? Remember MT's an '08 and DR an '09.

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05-29-2011, 11:43 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by apice3 View Post
Larsson is the only player in this draft that I wouldn't trade straight up for Rundblad. He's a top 5 prospect in the entire league. Huberdeau is a top 5 prospect in a weak draft. If you wouldn't trade Huberdeau for Rundblad, I'm sorry, but you're being ridiculous. What's the two year gap you're talking about? You think Huberdeau is going to make the Devils next year if he were drafted? It'll take at least one or two years, putting him in the very position Rundblad is in. If Larsson weren't around at pick #4, I'd trade it for Rundblad without question. I'm not sure if Ottawa would.
Can we bring you over to the Oilers thread? Apparently Rundblad is worse than our 6th according to them - let alone your 4th.

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05-29-2011, 11:49 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by apice3 View Post
Larsson is the only player in this draft that I wouldn't trade straight up for Rundblad. He's a top 5 prospect in the entire league. Huberdeau is a top 5 prospect in a weak draft. If you wouldn't trade Huberdeau for Rundblad, I'm sorry, but you're being ridiculous. What's the two year gap you're talking about? You think Huberdeau is going to make the Devils next year if he were drafted? It'll take at least one or two years, putting him in the very position Rundblad is in. If Larsson weren't around at pick #4, I'd trade it for Rundblad without question. I'm not sure if Ottawa would.
I love this guy, no homo.

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05-29-2011, 11:54 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
Can we bring you over to the Oilers thread? Apparently Rundblad is worse than our 6th according to them - let alone your 4th.
The losing is getting to the Oilers fans.

Rundblad is easily worth our 4th , if and only if Larsson is off the board. He is NHL ready, and has the ability to become an amazing Defensemen. The fact alone that he will be ready for next year , already makes him a better prospect than the ones in this draft. However, Larsson might be NHL ready as well. That is the only reason I am uncertain of trading the #4 for Rundblad. If Larsson is off the board at #4, than I would love to trade the pick for Rundblad. Sadly, Ottawa wouldnt.

Edit: Ohh, and Lou loves his Swedes

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05-29-2011, 11:58 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by DevsFan7545 View Post
The losing is getting to the Oilers fans.

Rundblad is easily worth our 4th , if and only if Larsson is off the board. He is NHL ready, and has the ability to become an amazing Defensemen. The fact alone that he will be ready for next year , already makes him a better prospect than the ones in this draft. However, Larsson might be NHL ready as well. That is the only reason I am uncertain of trading the #4 for Rundblad. If Larsson is off the board at #4, than I would love to trade the pick for Rundblad. Sadly, Ottawa wouldnt.
Probably true. Personally, given our depth at the blue line, I don't think it would be a terrible move from an organizational standpoint. I mean, we do have Weircioch, Lee (who is developed into a strong defender 4-6 guy), and Gryba as well.

The problem with trading a player like Rundblad is invariably you end up looking like a fool if they hit their potential. The player I want in this draft (absent RNH, who obviously is likely going to Edmonton or Florida) is Huberdeau. He's got sick hands and elite skill, in my view.

Defensively, I've read some really good reviews about Hamilton and Oleksiak. I'd love to find a way to land Oleksiak. If we don't move up from 6, maybe we can move up from 21 and snag him.

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05-29-2011, 11:59 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
I would say too much quantity on the OP.

Curious of what Devils fans think of this.

Sens : Tedenby, 4th overall

NJ : Rundblad, 6th overall

I'm not honestly going to say this will ever happen or that Rundblad or Tedenby should be traded. Just value wise, two top prospects exchanged, one team gets into lottery and helps address depth on both sides. NJ might need to add but not much I'd think. Rundblad obviously higher rated prospect but less proven in NHL which negates some value. I was already lambasted by the Sens fanbase curious what the Devils response would be.
If Tedenby is traded, it will be for a proven #1 defenceman, not a prospect defenceman. I like Rundblad, but I would not trade Tedenby for him.

And no, NJ would not need to add, I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asquaredx2 View Post
Tedenby has scored 8 goals in the NHL.
Watch him play rather than reading his stat line. The kid is going to be a star in this league. 25-30 goals a year in his prime.

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Old
05-30-2011, 12:00 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
Probably true. Personally, given our depth at the blue line, I don't think it would be a terrible move from an organizational standpoint. I mean, we do have Weircioch, Lee (who is developed into a strong defender 4-6 guy), and Gryba as well.

The problem with trading a player like Rundblad is invariably you end up looking like a fool if they hit their potential. The player I want in this draft (absent RNH, who obviously is likely going to Edmonton or Florida) is Huberdeau. He's got sick hands and elite skill, in my view.

Defensively, I've read some really good reviews about Hamilton and Oleksiak. I'd love to find a way to land Oleksiak. If we don't move up from 6, maybe we can move up from 21 and snag him.
Works both ways. If we trade the #4, and Rundblad doesnt turn out to be amazing, but the #4 Pick does we end up looking like fools.


Edit : If the draft goes
RNH
Larsson
Courturier
________

Than call us, well be glad to take Rundlad

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05-30-2011, 12:02 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by DevsFan7545 View Post
Works both ways. If we trade the #4, and Rundblad doesnt turn out to be amazing, but the #4 Pick does we end up looking like fools.
I know. That's why, unlike many Senators fans, I'm not one of those who is opposed to it outright. I realize there's a risk/reward component. You can't know for sure how things will go, the best you can do is make educated guesses.

I do think there's a possible deal that could help both teams, but I think it's more likely to be a swap of 4th for 6th than involving D.R.....just my gut feel though.

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05-30-2011, 12:06 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
I know. That's why, unlike many Senators fans, I'm not one of those who is opposed to it outright. I realize there's a risk/reward component. You can't know for sure how things will go, the best you can do is make educated guesses.

I do think there's a possible deal that could help both teams, but I think it's more likely to be a swap of 4th for 6th than involving D.R.....just my gut feel though.
Definetely. If Larsson is gone, and Murray really wants Landeskog or somebody else, than I could see us trading down and picking Hamilton, or Murphy at #6.

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05-30-2011, 12:06 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
I've already been down this down before and I'm not going to start arguing the merits of your prospects... we'll just have to agree to disagree.



NYI have used 5 of their last 6 1st rounders on forwards. Their defense corps is old and not very good.
and trentmcclearly doesnt know his ass from a hockey stick

The Isles have Hamonic, Macdonald, and Streit, And DeHaan on the Way, and Ken Morrow thinks Matt Donovan will be starting for us by years end the only defender i can see us taking is the same one NJ would most likely take, Larsson if he's there, The Guy the Isles want is Landeskog as they see him as Tavares left wing of the future, as a fall back, if he's gone they have Worked out Huberdeau,.

if Larsson Landeskog and Huberdeau are gone, Then they trade down, Garth Has said more than once, he is Loathe to take a defender with a high first, he feels forwards are surer bets with top 5 selections, and he believes in BPA philosophically,

perhaps if you werent so clueless youd remember Garth traded out of Luke Schenn, since he felt one dimensional defensemen arent value in the top of the draft, and then Snow started Fowler's descent by taking Nino

Snow did have nice things to say about Ryan Murphys talent but said he'd be an option if we traded down

get a clue trent

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05-30-2011, 12:08 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by DevsFan7545 View Post
Definetely. If Larsson is gone, and Murray really wants Landeskog or somebody else, than I could see us trading down and picking Hamilton, or Murphy at #6.
I think Hamilton could be the steal of the draft. I also would love to see Ottawa find a way to get Oleksiak but I know it's unlikely.

Can you imagine?

6'5 (250) [Cowen] + 6'0 (175) [Karlsson]
6'7 (???) [Oleskiak] + 6'3 (???) [Rundblad]
6'4 (220) [Weircioch] + 6'3 (210) [Lee]
6'3 (225) [Gryba]

.....

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05-30-2011, 12:13 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
I think Hamilton could be the steal of the draft. I also would love to see Ottawa find a way to get Oleksiak but I know it's unlikely.

Can you imagine?

6'5 (250) [Cowen] + 6'0 (175) [Karlsson]
6'7 (???) [Oleskiak] + 6'3 (???) [Rundblad]
6'4 (220) [Weircioch] + 6'3 (210) [Lee]
6'3 (225) [Gryba]

.....
Imagine you guys still had Chara.

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05-30-2011, 12:17 AM
  #46
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Imagine you guys still had Chara.
Eh, you know, as a Sens fan - I feel like the right call (at the time) was made.

It was Chara or Redden. Hindsight is 20/20 as they say, but at the time, Redden was the better player, younger (I believe), and more likely to be the backbone of our defense. I favoured Redden then. Obviously, time has proved me wrong. I don't think, at the time, it was the wrong decision though. It's not fair to evaluate the past by modern knowledge.

The Devils definitely could use a great d-man though. Do you think Lou might take Hamilton at 4, or gamble he'd fall to 6? I hear the Islanders had nice things to say about Murphy.

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05-30-2011, 12:32 AM
  #47
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Watch him play rather than reading his stat line. The kid is going to be a star in this league. 25-30 goals a year in his prime.
Again, my point is he's not particularly proven. No one is denying he has high potential. But then so does Rundblad (moreso, IMO, but we can agree to disagree there).

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05-30-2011, 12:52 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
Eh, you know, as a Sens fan - I feel like the right call (at the time) was made.

It was Chara or Redden. Hindsight is 20/20 as they say, but at the time, Redden was the better player, younger (I believe), and more likely to be the backbone of our defense. I favoured Redden then. Obviously, time has proved me wrong. I don't think, at the time, it was the wrong decision though. It's not fair to evaluate the past by modern knowledge.

The Devils definitely could use a great d-man though. Do you think Lou might take Hamilton at 4, or gamble he'd fall to 6? I hear the Islanders had nice things to say about Murphy.
The Devils are high on Murphy, and Hamilton. It wouldnt matter. Most likely, we would get 1 of them at #6.

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05-30-2011, 12:58 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
You've been bashing Huberdeau for over a month now, so it's no surprise to see you talk that way about the kid.... and this draft is weak, really? It's funny that NHL scouts are finding the top of this draft class to be pretty solid, so I guess I'll take the word of a pro scout over a amateur.

Rundblad has put up some solid #'s in the SEL, good for him and the Senators. All I was saying is that Huberdeau can be just as good, if not better, when he'll be 20 years of age but he's currently 17 years old.

Once again, compairing two prospects that have a 2 year difference is almost impossible to do cause those years (17/18/19) are the hardest years to analyse a players progression. Jonathan was off the map last year and at the start of this year but his progression multiplied drastically and he's almost a lock to go top #3.
It's more to do with Rundblad than anything. Again, he's a top 5 prospect in the league. I'm sorry, but I'll take the NHL ready, 20 year old, top 5 NHL prospect who has exceeded expectations at the professional level over the 17 year old kid who has played one real good out-of-nowhere season in one of the weaker junior leagues.

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05-30-2011, 07:49 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asquaredx2 View Post
Again, my point is he's not particularly proven. No one is denying he has high potential. But then so does Rundblad (moreso, IMO, but we can agree to disagree there).
Right, but with Tedenby it isn't entirely potential. He's already played his rookie year in the NHL, and he looked good when Lemaire took the leash off. Rundblad has high potential, but he hasn't begun to convert it into proven results yet. Tedenby has.

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