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Old
05-29-2011, 08:19 PM
  #26
Slippin Jimmy
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
If we made that trade, the one that Atlanta wanted with Theodore, we likely finish dead last in 2002 and end up drafting first or second. We also likely finish lower in 2003, possibly in the top 5, certainly high enough to take Parise.

In 2004 we would also likely be picking in the top 10 instead of making the playoffs. We probably end up with somebody like Smid if this happens, and then after that was the lockout and we have an increased chance at Crosby since we missed the playoffs in 02 and 04, but then again we could have potentially picked first in 02 which would lose us a ball. For arguments sake let's say we still end up 5th and take Price still though.

We would have gone through a lot of pain by trading Theodore, but the pay off could have been huge.

That said though, we realistically do not become a playoff team until 2008 if we make that trade because by being so crappy from 02-04 we would never have traded for guys like Kovalev, or even marginal players like Juneau, Dackell that kept us respectable, and probably never pick up Huet who saved us in 06 and most of 07 (although Souray was easily our mvp that year).
Which probably = Today.

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05-29-2011, 08:26 PM
  #27
Fish on The Sand
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Originally Posted by TheHabMan43 View Post
Which probably = Today.
I should have also added that it would have meant no Aebisher and by 2010 Halak would have been a more established goalie as he would have been a full time starter by 2008, but probably more likely in 2007, so dealing Halak at the end of last season is probably harder, and instead Price is either backing up Halak full time or owning the AHL like its nobody's business. Would have been tough to trade Halak, who would have been our starter for 3+ seasons and still quite young.

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05-30-2011, 10:41 AM
  #28
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If I recall correctly, Bob Gainey gave a television interview where he stated they really liked Anze Kopitar, but after drafting Andrei Kostitsyn in the 1st rd of 2003, he didn't think the fan base would have supported 2 European forwards in 3 years. I wish I could link it, but it was so long ago that I'm not sure where to find it. It may have been TSN.

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05-30-2011, 10:49 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by habshound247 View Post
If I recall correctly, Bob Gainey gave a television interview where he stated they really liked Anze Kopitar, but after drafting Andrei Kostitsyn in the 1st rd of 2003, he didn't think the fan base would have supported 2 European forwards in 3 years. I wish I could link it, but it was so long ago that I'm not sure where to find it. It may have been TSN.
I find that hard to believe, as Gainey had almost never let himself be governed by what the fans want in his entire GM tenure. I seriously doubt he would put the stake of a 5th overall draft pick on what the fans wanted.

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05-30-2011, 01:54 PM
  #30
habshound247
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I find that hard to believe, as Gainey had almost never let himself be governed by what the fans want in his entire GM tenure. I seriously doubt he would put the stake of a 5th overall draft pick on what the fans wanted.
That is why I remembered him saying it. It was so out-of-character for him. But in the end, drafting Price proved he and the scouts correct.

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05-30-2011, 05:01 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by RoyBoyCoy View Post
Probably Pouliot. In other news, what a terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible draft!
In general, or for the Habs? Cause there is some high quality that came out of the first round (Crosby, Price, Kopitar, Ryan, Staal, Oshie, etc.) and there are some other solid NHL'ers that came out of the round, like JFJ. Second round had guys like James Neal, Matt Niskanen, Stastny, Pavelec and Vlasic. Third round on saw Letang, Quick, Franson, Yandle, Helm, Kostitsyn and Hornqvist (the last pick of the draft).

Maybe it isn't as good as the 2003 draft, but there is quite a lot of talent that came out of it.

Anyway..I'd hope we would go Kopitar or Staal, but I think we would have gone for Pouliot.

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05-30-2011, 05:34 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by habshound247 View Post
That is why I remembered him saying it. It was so out-of-character for him. But in the end, drafting Price proved he and the scouts correct.
Price is great, but drafting Kopitar fifth overall wouldn't exactly have been a mistake.

Drafting goaltenders in the first round is iffy, especially high. Montreal is one of the very few teams that draft goalies well enough that they can kind of sort of get away with it, but it's still not a brilliant strategy.

(Garon, Theodore, Vokoun, Halak, Price... Montreal did draft a large number of quality NHL goalies.)

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05-30-2011, 06:04 PM
  #33
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I seem to recall the general consensus here was that if Pouliot was picked before us we'd go after Brule. Everyone just seemed so sure of it which is why Price's name shocked EVERYBODY. There isn't a soul out there that would've predicted us picking Price.

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05-30-2011, 06:29 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Price is great, but drafting Kopitar fifth overall wouldn't exactly have been a mistake.

Drafting goaltenders in the first round is iffy, especially high. Montreal is one of the very few teams that draft goalies well enough that they can kind of sort of get away with it, but it's still not a brilliant strategy.

(Garon, Theodore, Vokoun, Halak, Price... Montreal did draft a large number of quality NHL goalies.)
The strange thing with goalies is that some organizations seem to understand them and produce way more than they need (Montreal and Nashville) while others seem to never seem to have a clue (Philadelphia is prominent here, Toronto hasn't had a competent starter since the Belfour). In a 30 team league this might just be random variation at work but I think it may be reflective of some organizational strengths.

Price and Luongo seem to be the examples of drafting a goalie high and it not being a bad idea in retrospect. Partly because both 1997 and 2005 were retrospectively weak years in the first round, of the players taken after Price in the first half on the first round only Kopitar and Staal are of comparable impact and at the time no one knew exactly what to make of Kopitar. Other high goalie picks left some really obvious picks that became impact players on the board. Fleury and Staal, Lehtonen and Bouwmester, DiPietro and Heatley or Gaborik. Luongo didn't work out for the team that drafted him but that's more an example of GM incompetence than the pick itself being unworthy.

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05-30-2011, 06:44 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Gommallionta View Post
I seem to recall the general consensus here was that if Pouliot was picked before us we'd go after Brule. Everyone just seemed so sure of it which is why Price's name shocked EVERYBODY. There isn't a soul out there that would've predicted us picking Price.
I wonder how much of an impact McGuire hyping a guy that wasn't actually all that good. 87 points in 70 games in the WHL isn't all that good for a top draft pick, Tyler Ennis had 91 and went 26th, and McGuire was talking about how he was almost as good as Crosby. Then the Montreal media latched on a guy with a french name because, well, that's what they do.

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Old
05-30-2011, 07:05 PM
  #36
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"We" would have picked Pouliot if he was there... ahead of Price. Thankfully the team drafting right in front of "us" was the Wild Bunch.
FWIW - Pouliot was ahead of Price on most draft lists. An inexact science...scouting can humble a man in a hurry.

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Old
05-30-2011, 07:18 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
"We" would have picked Pouliot if he was there... ahead of Price. Thankfully the team drafting right in front of "us" was the Wild Bunch.
FWIW - Pouliot was ahead of Price on most draft lists. An inexact science...scouting can humble a man in a hurry.
Hey Grant,

I know you scouted for the Habs at one point. Is there anything you can share with us in regards to players/prospects we were interested in drafting?

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