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Mtl - Cbj

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Old
05-31-2011, 03:29 PM
  #1
Clipitar
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Mtl - Cbj

To MTL: 8th overall

To CBJ: Yannick Weber & 17th overall + ??? (rights to UFA James Wisnewski?)

I'm higher on Weber than most people, and really see some top-4 upside in him that could manifest itself as soon as next season. I know some of you think he's a borderline 7th defenseman, so this proposal is certainly not addressed to you.

It is no secret that Columbus is not in rebuild mode anymore and they want to win ASAP. They also badly need some two-way defensive help. They might be reluctant to trade for Weber considering they already have Kris Russell, but IMO, Weber has higher upside on both sides of the ice, and is definitely stronger than Russell. Having them both on the PP would also be beneficial, Weber having a killer of a point shot.

I understand another quality asset might be needed from MTL, but I'm not sure what (Habs don't hold any 2nd rounder for the upcoming draft). I'm also aware that going from 17th to 8th is quite steep, but at least we're not talking about a top-5 pick either. Finally, some other teams may have sexier assets along with an earlier 1st rounder to entice Columbus to move their 8th overall.

All in all, I'm definitely curious to see what fans from both teams think about this.

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05-31-2011, 03:34 PM
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Oberyn
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Is it just me or is Weber in every Habs proposal? If this guy has top 4 upside, why would you trade him away?

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05-31-2011, 03:38 PM
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DekeLikeYouMeanIt
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Won't work. Weber is RFA and they'd want next year's 1st rounder too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bacheesh View Post
Is it just me or is Weber in every Habs proposal? If this guy has top 4 upside, why would you trade him away?
You give to get.

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05-31-2011, 03:39 PM
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wej20
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Weber's not enough to jump up that many places.

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05-31-2011, 03:39 PM
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Viqsi
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It's interesting, and yes you'd have to have something to add, but I'm also perplexed as to what that something would be. Next year's 1st isn't good enough.

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05-31-2011, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
It's interesting, and yes you'd have to have something to add, but I'm also perplexed as to what that something would be. Next year's 1st isn't good enough.
All indications say next year's draft is gonna be deeper than a Brooklyn hooker's hole.

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05-31-2011, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsolument90 View Post
All indications say next year's draft is gonna be deeper than a Brooklyn hooker's hole.
That's lovely. We need more NHL players now. Unless we can turn that draft pick into a 2011-2012 NHL Season roster player, no thanks.

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05-31-2011, 03:48 PM
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I don't get this. You know Columbus situation, but you write the trade anyways? They need established players, not more "potential".

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05-31-2011, 04:09 PM
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Oh hey, it's this proposal again. WE DO NOT WANT WEBER. HE ADDS NOTHING TO OUR D. Of course what I just said doesn't matter, because within a week there will be a "new" proposal sending us weber, 17, and AK for Voracek and 8.

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05-31-2011, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
I don't get this. You know Columbus situation, but you write the trade anyways? They need established players, not more "potential".
It's not like Weber is a prospect. He's ready for full-time duties, and will shine on any team that can give him #1 PP time. Montreal, with Markov & Subban, is not the place for him to get these kinds of responsibilities. I think Colombus would one of the few places where he'd have a real opportunity that he won't get in Montreal, unless they part ways with Markov, which would be a huge mistake IMO.

All in all, if Habs can't get full value for Weber, I have absolutely no problem hanging on to him. I just think it'd be better for him to be on a team where he gets better opportunities. And if Habs can get something along the lines of a great pick, that's good for everyone. Not many teams have a guy just like him, 21-year-old right-handed two-way defenseman, in Subban. Without Subban, I give Weber top-4 duties and #1 PP time any day of the week.

I know a lot of Habs proposals include Weber, some do it just for the sake of it. In my case, it's really because he's one of the few real quality assets that could fetch something decent in a trade, and the presence of Subban somehow makes him expendable (but definitely not a point where Habs should "get rid" of him).

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05-31-2011, 04:13 PM
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If Columbus wants to win so badly, why would they want Weber?

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05-31-2011, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug61 View Post
Oh hey, it's this proposal again. WE DO NOT WANT WEBER. HE ADDS NOTHING TO OUR D. Of course what I just said doesn't matter, because within a week there will be a "new" proposal sending us weber, 17, and AK for Voracek and 8.
I personally think AK has more to give short term to the Habs than Voracek. I know he has negative value on these boards, but thankfully real GMs know better about players' actual value.

And of course, he adds nothing to your D, but could still, as soon as next year, be QBing your 1st PP wave. I'm not a huge Russell fan, I have to admit, even though I was really high on him a few years ago. I think Weber will be better if he gets the same amount of responsibilities.

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05-31-2011, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clipitar View Post
It's not like Weber is a prospect. He's ready for full-time duties, and will shine on any team that can give him #1 PP time. Montreal, with Markov & Subban, is not the place for him to get these kinds of responsibilities. I think Colombus would one of the few places where he'd have a real opportunity that he won't get in Montreal, unless they part ways with Markov, which would be a huge mistake IMO.

All in all, if Habs can't get full value for Weber, I have absolutely no problem hanging on to him. I just think it'd be better for him to be on a team where he gets better opportunities. And if Habs can get something along the lines of a great pick, that's good for everyone. Not many teams have a guy just like him, 21-year-old right-handed two-way defenseman, in Subban. Without Subban, I give Weber top-4 duties and #1 PP time any day of the week.

I know a lot of Habs proposals include Weber, some do it just for the sake of it. In my case, it's really because he's one of the few real quality assets that could fetch something decent in a trade, and the presence of Subban somehow makes him expendable (but definitely not a point where Habs should "get rid" of him).
My mistake I figured he was still a prospect, need to catch up on Hab games. That being said, Columbus needs someone who has been there, done that. My idea of established is somebody who is 25-26 that has been playing for at least good 2-3 seasons of solid top 4 dman hockey.

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05-31-2011, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bar South View Post
If Columbus wants to win so badly, why would they want Weber?
I'm not saying they couldn't get something better with their 8th overall, especially if they don't want any 1st rounder back. But I still think Weber's addition helps them short & long term.

But hey, if you want to simply embrace the notion that Weber is worthless, be my guest. I even included a sentence for you in the OP.

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05-31-2011, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clipitar View Post
It's not like Weber is a prospect. He's ready for full-time duties, and will shine on any team that can give him #1 PP time.
How do you know he will shine on any team that gives him #1 PP time? He's got a grand total of 49 games in the NHL and one goal to his credit.

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05-31-2011, 04:24 PM
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Bar South
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clipitar View Post
I'm not saying they couldn't get something better with their 8th overall, especially if they don't want any 1st rounder back. But I still think Weber's addition helps them short & long term.

But hey, if you want to simply embrace the notion that Weber is worthless, be my guest. I even included a sentence for you in the OP.
I don't think he is worthless, but what Columbus needs is a top pairing d-man. Weber isn't there, he has the potential to get there.

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05-31-2011, 04:24 PM
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Clipitar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
My mistake I figured he was still a prospect, need to catch up on Hab games. That being said, Columbus needs someone who has been there, done that. My idea of established is somebody who is 25-26 that has been playing for at least good 2-3 seasons of solid top 4 dman hockey.
I agree someone more established, with an absolute need for offensive upside, should be CBJ's main focus. In the OP I mentioned Wisniewski's UFA rights. Any interest in signing him? I figure he'll be coveted a lot on July 1st if Habs don't sign him by then. It would definitely help you guys to have exclusive negotiations rights if you feel he fits on your squad.

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05-31-2011, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Clipitar View Post
I agree someone more established, with an absolute need for offensive upside, should be CBJ's main focus. In the OP I mentioned Wisniewski's UFA rights. Any interest in signing him? I figure he'll be coveted a lot on July 1st if Habs don't sign him by then. It would definitely help you guys to have exclusive negotiations rights if you feel he fits on your squad.
I was under the impression Wiz was going to sign with the Habs or if he hits UFA he is going to demand a boatload of cash. UFA rights generally don't hold much value especially with teams who aren't exactly prime destinations. Columbus could use a defenceman like Wiz, but at what cost? What chances(of him actually signing)?

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05-31-2011, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
How do you know he will shine on any team that gives him #1 PP time? He's got a grand total of 49 games in the NHL and one goal to his credit.
I don't know anything for sure, sir. It's all speculation. Weber is by no means a "sure shot" to be a top-20 PPQB in this League, yet I have a feeling he could become one. I've had many of these feelings in the past 18 years, ever since I'm old enough to make rational prognostics about players' potentials, and I've been quite successful at it. I could very well be wrong this time, I'm well aware of this.

All in all, if Weber can become a top PPQB, I think he will have a hard time becoming one on a Habs squad where he can't even get 1st wave duties (no need to debate that Markov & Subban are ahead of him). A team like Columbus could give him this opportunity. Otherwise, I have no issues whatsoever hanging to him even though that means it might take him longer to reach his full potential.

As for the 1 goal in 49 games comment, don't you think it'd be a bit more honest to mention he also has 3 goals in 6 NHL playoff games?

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05-31-2011, 04:43 PM
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I don't know who is on Columbus' first PP d pairing. I'm guessing its Russell and Stralman.
I think they are fine, for now with Clitsome, Stralman and Russell as the main powerplay d-men.

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05-31-2011, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bar South View Post
I don't think he is worthless, but what Columbus needs is a top pairing d-man. Weber isn't there, he has the potential to get there.
A lot of teams need a top pairing d-man. They're kinda hard to come by. You typically need to trade young assets or sign one as a UFA. Not only does Columbus not have a huge budget but I would assume they are not the most desired destination for front line players.

While I don't pretend to know whether the Jackets would this, I do know that the Flyers did not even give a first round pick when they traded up to #4 overall to get what was thought (at the time) to be the most NHL ready draft eligible d-man in a long time in Joni Pitkanen. Yes Fodotenko was more established than Weber, but a burgeoning superstar he was not.

Finally, if you believe, like many I've read and heard, that after the top 4-5 the next 10-15 are pretty similar, then getting a good young player to move down a few spots is far from outrageous.

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05-31-2011, 05:42 PM
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Viqsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug61 View Post
Oh hey, it's this proposal again. WE DO NOT WANT WEBER. HE ADDS NOTHING TO OUR D. Of course what I just said doesn't matter, because within a week there will be a "new" proposal sending us weber, 17, and AK for Voracek and 8.
I wouldn't mind having Weber. At worst, he'd be a Stralman replacement that doesn't need John Moore on the bench to play. He's not our primary need, but he would be very useful here.

The deal as proposed is overpayment by us, but the OP already acknowledged as much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bar South View Post
I don't know who is on Columbus' first PP d pairing. I'm guessing its Russell and Stralman.
I think they are fine, for now with Clitsome, Stralman and Russell as the main powerplay d-men.
Tyutin and Clitsome, usually, although sometimes Russell moves up. Stralman is permanently on my Hate List after this year (see above comments as to why), and I was one of his biggest supporters.

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05-31-2011, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bar South View Post
I don't know who is on Columbus' first PP d pairing. I'm guessing its Russell and Stralman.
I think they are fine, for now with Clitsome, Stralman and Russell as the main powerplay d-men.
Put it this way....Rivet ended the year on the #1 unit. OUCH. Granted Clitsome and Strahlman were out of the lineup but I think that tells you enough.

Personally, I like Weber and think he would offer value to Columbus. The biggest issue with adding him would be Russell and/or Clitsome would need to be with someone else next year. That would make three players < 6' tall on our blue line.

With Weber it sounds like there would be a trade off with Clitsome. Good point shot, decent puck mover but a RH shot. That's definitely a need in Columbus. Depending on what happens on the back end in CBJ ville I wouldn't mind rounding out the D with Weber as part of it. We have no one that can shoot from the point on the PP or really any time!

Oh yeah, almost forgot Lepisto is under 6' too if he's qualified. Too many small players for my liking but who am I to say?

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05-31-2011, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bacheesh View Post
Is it just me or is Weber in every Habs proposal? If this guy has top 4 upside, why would you trade him away?
We have a logjam on defense for next year. With Emelin and Diaz coming over he might be the odd man out. Sadly.

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05-31-2011, 08:08 PM
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Columbus wouldnt do it. They have Moore, Golobuef, and Savard already

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