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Hal Gill back, 1 year @ 2.25

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Old
05-31-2011, 04:14 PM
  #76
cap10bfl
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we need a number 3 defenseman now and another top 6 forward with size, with hopefully a bottom 6 guy with grit and size to replace pouliot...

number 1 defenseman: markov
number 2 defenseman pk
number 3 defenseman: wiz? hammer for 1 more year? bieksa?
number 4 defenseman: gorges
number 5 defenseman: gill
number 6 defenseman: spacek
bench: yemelin weber and diaz

ideally we would need to get rid of spacek....

markov yemelin
gill subban
gorges bieksa/hamrlik/wiz

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05-31-2011, 04:16 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guilliam View Post
I think Markov, Gill and Gorges are enough for veteran presence on the backend.



Exactly. Price in net, Markov, Subban, Gorges, Gill on D is a playoff team.
If you want a winning team, you'll consider Markov and Subban as your #1 and 2, and Gorges and Gill as your #5-6, not as 3-4.

Spacek is a redundance of the 5-6 position.

Weber has nice upside, but falls in the 6-7th category, but at least, he has been used as a winger and didn't do so bad, so they'll probably juggle with him a bit.

Emelin has ZERO north american experience, so you count him as 7th.

Diaz will probably start in the AHL.

And all that is just based on what you should expect from these players in normal play (Gorges and Gill could easily get overused playing 2nd pairing time ALL season long, and what happens if Markov falls?), but doesn't count what we'll need. We need to solidify the 2nd pairing. We also need to add some size.

Signing Gill doesn't mean Hamr is gone. People who believe that are making an extremely premature conclusion, simplistic at that. He might not come back, but signing Gill doesn't mean we don't have place for Hamr, we actually need to either sign him back or find a suitable replacement, and neither Emelin nor Gill, nor Gorges fit the bill.

Hamr is still a stop gap solution for the 2nd pairing.


After all these years of seeing how this management operates, how they invision the D squad... it should be evident that they won't start with Emelin on the top 4, and neither with Gorges nor Gill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cap10bfl View Post
we need a number 3 defenseman now and another top 6 forward with size, with hopefully a bottom 6 guy with grit and size to replace pouliot...

number 3 defenseman: wiz? hammer for 1 more year? bieksa?
Finally someone who sees clearly.


Last edited by Crimson Skorpion: 05-31-2011 at 04:45 PM. Reason: Merged
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Old
05-31-2011, 04:18 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Habsolument90 View Post

Most likely D:
Markov - Yemelin
Gill - Subban
Gorges - Spacek
Weber

There's no room for Wiz. Spacek AND Weber together won't be scratched. And Weber will likely ask for a 1-way contract (which he deserves).

The summer is just starting, but unless Spacek is ridden of, the D is not improving one bit (something we REALLY need).
Si what is most likely in your view is Yemelin playing on the first pairing? get real! he'll probably start the year as a 7th D.

I don't know if we really nedd to improve our D, we were one of the best defense in the league last year. Something we really need to improve is our offense and that's why I'm ok with this D : believe it or not, it's cheap. And the year after you got Gill and Spacek leaving clearing even more capspace. They will be replace by Diaz and Emelin or Nash who will be cheap too, which gives us a lot of margin to improve the offense.

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05-31-2011, 04:18 PM
  #79
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U get the feeling some guys want to ice the shortest D in the NHL. Wiz, Markov, Subban, Gorges, Spacec, Weber...there's not a six footer in the bunch. Gill's worth his money. It's one year fer Petre's sake.

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05-31-2011, 04:19 PM
  #80
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Welcome back Hal.. So I guess Hammer appears to be done as a Hab.. I'd use the cap space from Hammer's contract to try and re-sign Wiz or go after Bieksa.. Markov should get roughly the same money as he was making before and a small raise for Gorges.. PG just needs to find a way to get rid of Spacek's contract now..

I wouldn't mind starting the season with any of these 7 dmen..

Markov
Subban
Wiz or Bieksa
Gill
Gorges
Yemelin/Weber

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05-31-2011, 04:20 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
U get the feeling some guys want to ice the shortest D in the NHL. Wiz, Markov, Subban, Gorges, Spacec, Weber...there's not a six footer in the bunch. Gill's worth his money. It's one year get Petr's sake.
Good lord, it's been over a month I've been telling people the Habs won't ice such a small D corps.

They'll either sign back Hamr, or find someone to replace him adequately.

I actually think the Habs might sign Hamr back for one season, and still sign someone like Bieska, for depth's sake.

Next year, Hamr, Spacek and Gill fall off the books and we would still have Markov, Subban, Bieska* and Gorges, with Emelin and Weber and possibly Diaz blooming. If the need be, we could still take one of Hamr or Gill back for one more season for 12-13.

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05-31-2011, 04:22 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheed36 View Post
Welcome back Hal.. So I guess Hammer appears to be done as a Hab.. I'd use the cap space from Hammer's contract to try and re-sign Wiz or go after Bieksa.. Markov should get roughly the same money as he was making before and a small raise for Gorges.. PG just needs to find a way to get rid of Spacek's contract now..

I wouldn't mind starting the season with these 7 dmen..

Markov
Subban
Wiz
Gill
Gorges
Yemelin/Weber
this would be the ideal 7 defensemen to have starting next season, probably inserting diaz in there, but once again, this all means spacek needs to go, i dunno if its possible or not...

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05-31-2011, 04:22 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by hotsauce514 View Post
This is horrible.Gill in the top 4 and gorges on the first paring = lottery pick
Subban on second pairing = Stanley cup!

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05-31-2011, 04:23 PM
  #84
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Markov
Wisnewski
Subban
Gorges
Gill
Emelin
Weber
Spacek

Sounds good to me

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05-31-2011, 04:24 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
U get the feeling some guys want to ice the shortest D in the NHL. Wiz, Markov, Subban, Gorges, Spacec, Weber...there's not a six footer in the bunch. Gill's worth his money. It's one year fer Petre's sake.
markov and subban are 6 feet, gorges is 6'1

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05-31-2011, 04:25 PM
  #86
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Hamrlik is going to stay, he is a great locker room guy, they give him senior discount at the restaurant when they go out.

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05-31-2011, 04:25 PM
  #87
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I'm ok with the signing 2.25 is a fair price for Gill.. as everyone pointed out hes a great team player, and every team needs those "mentor" type figures on their team. I just really hope to see Spacek moved this summer. He can't play at this level constantly anymore, and he's been on too many highlight reels this year for the wrong reasons. I really like our core of D for the next season. I don't understand why some of you guys are throwing a fuss.. we have a very dynamic group of young defenseman here! As well lets not forget we have a bit of wild card with Diaz coming into the mix. Whether he ends up playing with the dogs of the the habs that kid has skill from what I've read.

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05-31-2011, 04:25 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guilliam View Post
And the year after you got Gill and Spacek leaving clearing even more capspace. They will be replace by Diaz and Emelin or Nash who will be cheap too.
That still doesn't give us a #3 D-man (whose role is to be #2 if one of the top 2 go down). Diaz isn't ready, we don't even know what he can do in NA, Yemelin is destined to be that bruising bottom-pairing guy. Even on the 2nd pairing, he's not the answer for that #3.

Wiz is not exactly a gem, but these kinda players/at that age and in these situations where he already played for us and shown what he can do... it'd be a huge mistake to let him go if he wasn't asking for 5+mil from us.

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05-31-2011, 04:26 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Saku View Post
Markov
Wisnewski
Subban
Gorges
Gill
Emelin
Weber
Spacek

Sounds good to me
That's what I'm thinking as well. I don't think it's out of the question to see both Wiz and Markov signed still. However, with Diaz in the mix, I can see Weber being traded.

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05-31-2011, 04:27 PM
  #90
Ozymandias
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Originally Posted by Habsolument90 View Post
He doesn't speak a word of English. Markov will need to be his pairing partner on ice. If that means Markov plays less minutes (probably better for someone coming off long injuries) then that will be the case. My points still stand.
false.

Hamr and Spacek won't have that much trouble to talk to him.

To right out conclude Emelin will be paired up with Markov just because of language is ridiculous.

Emelin's agent said that Emelin's biggest hurdle will be to learn English. It's not by playing and talking only in Russian that he'll take steps forward. And Markov won't be the one teaching him English, he'll have a teacher for that, and if I were that teacher, I would strongly suggest he'd be paired up with someone who speaks English first and knows just a bit of Russian, not the other way around.

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05-31-2011, 04:33 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by whitespy View Post
That's what I'm thinking as well. I don't think it's out of the question to see both Wiz and Markov signed still. However, with Diaz in the mix, I can see Weber being traded.
Would be good, Weber has too many holes in his D game to be a full time top 6 dman. We don't need him as a forward so you might as well trade him while he's youngish and find another team that will take a risk on him.

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05-31-2011, 04:35 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
false.

Hamr and Spacek won't have that much trouble to talk to him.

To right out conclude Emelin will be paired up with Markov just because of language is ridiculous.

Emelin's agent said that Emelin's biggest hurdle will be to learn English. It's not by playing and talking only in Russian that he'll take steps forward. And Markov won't be the one teaching him English, he'll have a teacher for that, and if I were that teacher, I would strongly suggest he'd be paired up with someone who speaks English first and knows just a bit of Russian, not the other way around.
They are Czech players. Big difference between Czech and Russian.

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05-31-2011, 04:37 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Habsolument90 View Post
That still doesn't give us a #3 D-man (whose role is to be #2 if one of the top 2 go down). Diaz isn't ready, we don't even know what he can do in NA, Yemelin is destined to be that bruising bottom-pairing guy. Even on the 2nd pairing, he's not the answer for that #3.

Wiz is not exactly a gem, but these kinda players/at that age and in these situations where he already played for us and shown what he can do... it'd be a huge mistake to let him go if he wasn't asking for 5+mil from us.
That's from a guy who puts him on the first pairing with Markov? he's destined to be a 3rd pairing guy but we should start him on the 1st???

I wouldn't re-sign Wiz. Given we already have Markov, Subban, Weber and eventually Diaz, Wiz is redundant. I'd rather go for a big stay-at-home D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
false.

Hamr and Spacek won't have that much trouble to talk to him.

To right out conclude Emelin will be paired up with Markov just because of language is ridiculous.

Emelin's agent said that Emelin's biggest hurdle will be to learn English. It's not by playing and talking only in Russian that he'll take steps forward. And Markov won't be the one teaching him English, he'll have a teacher for that, and if I were that teacher, I would strongly suggest he'd be paired up with someone who speaks English first and knows just a bit of Russian, not the other way around.
lol, I'm fairly sure his teacher won't have a freaking word to say about whom he's paired with!

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05-31-2011, 04:40 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Guilliam View Post
That's from a guy who puts him on the first pairing with Markov? he's destined to be a 3rd pairing guy but we should start him on the 1st???

I wouldn't re-sign Wiz. Given we already have Markov, Subban, Weber and eventually Diaz, Wiz is redundant. I'd rather go for a big stay-at-home D
You're hung up on Yemelin playing with Markov and you're not making an argument. You really think Weber or Diaz can do what Wiz did? I don't think so. Not even close.

And we already have that "big stay-at home D" in Yemelin. He's as tough as they come.

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05-31-2011, 04:41 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Habsolument90 View Post
They are Czech players. Big difference between Czech and Russian.


It's cyrillic. They'll communicate fine with simple words that are common in both languages.

You're kidding yourself if you think he'll only be paired up with Markov.

Stop thinking your pet theory is reality. It's a possibility, but come on.


Last edited by Crimson Skorpion: 05-31-2011 at 04:48 PM. Reason: Circumventing filter
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05-31-2011, 04:42 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
false.

Hamr and Spacek won't have that much trouble to talk to him.

To right out conclude Emelin will be paired up with Markov just because of language is ridiculous.

Emelin's agent said that Emelin's biggest hurdle will be to learn English. It's not by playing and talking only in Russian that he'll take steps forward. And Markov won't be the one teaching him English, he'll have a teacher for that, and if I were that teacher, I would strongly suggest he'd be paired up with someone who speaks English first and knows just a bit of Russian, not the other way around.
My thinking when pairing Emelin with Markov was not about language (at least not at first). I simply thought that they would be a good match of size and skill. I also thought about balancing the pairings in such a way where there wasn't an obvious weak link. Almost anyone with Spacek would be weak, except for maybe Subban, which is why would pair the two together. Than Gill and Gorges because they already have chemistry to begin with.

All this would be different if Weber was definitely in, and Spacek definitely 7th D. Then i would pair Emelin with Weber, and Subban with Markov. Spacek just messes everything up for me, or more precisely, Martin unwillingness to admit that Weber is better and that he should play him instead, despite the salary disparity.

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05-31-2011, 04:42 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Habsolument90 View Post
You have no clue what you're talking about. The cap calculator is used to see how players and their contracts fit under the cap. Read about it next time before posting.


Markov @ 5.5 for 3 yrs.
He wants "long term" and would be kidding himself if he thinks he deserves a raise for being injured and the team needing to replace him via trades, despite being a top D-man a couple of years ago.

Wiz @ 4.7 for 4 yrs. (Maybe front-loaded if he wants)
Wiz already said he wants to be back. He wants to be on a contending team with real fans. He's said that many times to Habs media and when he was in Chicago/Anaheim. It's a fair contract and it might be worth GOLD if Markov or Subban are injured for any amount of time.


Gill was great, but when you look at what he brings and what he takes away...
Plus:
Leadership/Mentor
Penalty Killing
Minus:
Roster Spot (Yes)
2.25mil

Most likely D:
Markov - Yemelin
Gill - Subban
Gorges - Spacek
Weber

There's no room for Wiz. Spacek AND Weber together won't be scratched. And Weber will likely ask for a 1-way contract (which he deserves).

The summer is just starting, but unless Spacek is ridden of, the D is not improving one bit (something we REALLY need).


I am fully aware of cap geek & the calculator. My point was just cause you put it in magically, does not mean in real life, the numbers work. Dunce.

Its good and all that you want both Wiz & Markov back, but the habs need to upgrade up front as well. And dont forget you have to lock in guys like price, subban, Pax long term after this year. And already committed with Cammo, Gomez, Gio long term, you cant go signing guys to 5 mil contracts.
Thats why short, cheap contracts for proven vets is a good choice in this new NHL.

Everyone says they want to be back. Sure if we offer him 6 mil a year, he will sign. Do you know how much he wants? Do you not think we will have to overpay?
He is a Michigan born kid, do you know think he wants to play in Detroit? Especially with the cap room they have? Please actually think before you post.

Teams deal with injuries. Just like this year. You cant go into a season and sign a ton of guys, thinking, "what if subban gets injured?". If he does, you deal with it then.

Your minus points on Gill make no sense again. Who would you fill his roster spot with? Unproven kids? Who know if Yemelin will even be on the roster? And besides 5 good playoff games, what has Weber done to be slotted over gill in the top 6??

Give me a break. Gill isnt a sexy player, but he is one of these versatile leaders who you need to win games. Im more willing to live with him at 2.25.

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05-31-2011, 04:43 PM
  #98
HankyZetts
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I wouldn't re-sign Wiz. Given we already have Markov, Subban, Weber and eventually Diaz, Wiz is redundant. I'd rather go for a big stay-at-home D
How the hell is Wisniewski "redundant" because of Yannick freaking Weber?

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05-31-2011, 04:43 PM
  #99
Ozymandias
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Originally Posted by Guilliam View Post
That's from a guy who puts him on the first pairing with Markov? he's destined to be a 3rd pairing guy but we should start him on the 1st???

I wouldn't re-sign Wiz. Given we already have Markov, Subban, Weber and eventually Diaz, Wiz is redundant. I'd rather go for a big stay-at-home D



lol, I'm fairly sure his teacher won't have a freaking word to say about whom he's paired with!
Do yourself a favor, and check the word "suggestion" in the dictionnary.

And I'm fairly sure Emelin's language issues won't be a determining factor of who he's gonna play with. It's just ridiculous.


Last edited by Crimson Skorpion: 05-31-2011 at 04:48 PM. Reason: Circumventing filter
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05-31-2011, 04:47 PM
  #100
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How the hell is Wisniewski "redundant" because of Yannick freaking Weber?
The have the same size and skills. Weber is not yet where Wisniewski was last year, but he should be in a year or two.

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