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With a team in Winnipeg...Can the expos come back?

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Old
06-01-2011, 06:24 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by HabsByTheBay View Post
The Yankees have won one World Series in the past 11 years.

MLB had a big role in getting rid of the Expos, but the fact is they played in an atrociously bad stadium that not enough people were interested in replacing, had virtually nobody with series money interested in keeping the team in Montreal and were not drawing even when they were really good. Nevermind the fact Canadians held MLB to a totally different standard, coming back like lemmings in 2005 in a way they didn't in 1994.

Unlike the NHL, MLB doesn't need a salary cap to save it from itself and with the most valuable commodity in the game being young players a smart team can develop talent to stay competitive. Look at Tampa, who actually has to compete with the Red Sox and Yankees (unlike the Expos) and has achieved more than the Expos ever did despite also playing in a terrible stadium with terrible attendance.

Now, saying all that, of course it could work. A new stadium like Labatt Field to replace the Big Owe and a deep pockets owner could easily make things work. Tampa, in fact, would be ideal. An All-Canada rivalry with the Blue Jays and plenty of big crowds for the Yankees and Red Sox would put butts in seats even when the team isn't doing well (and Tampa has done amazing things, as native MTLer Jonah Keri will tell you). Selig's going to keel over eventually and MTL remains, by a significant distance, the best market in North America without an MLB team.

But let's not eat the bones here.

I don't give darn about your BASEBALL. I don't give a hoot about your post.
I was here, I lived it, I remember it, and I sure remember what the people of Montreal felt when our Expos were robbed every year of our best talent. With promise after promise of a soon to be level playing field ( just keep buying tickets ) LIES all LIES.
Fool me once and it's on you, fool me twice about your MLB BASEBALL and it's on me..
So I say again take your MLB and shove it where the sun don't shine.
Please, remember that I have NOT called you an idiot nor have directed any personal insult directed to or at you. I have as much right to my opinion as you do without name calling, to think other wise is a rather unamerican don't you think.

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Old
06-01-2011, 06:43 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC51 View Post
I don't give darn about your BASEBALL. I don't give a hoot about your post.
I was here, I lived it, I remember it, and I sure remember what the people of Montreal felt when our Expos were robbed every year of our best talent. With promise after promise of a soon to be level playing field ( just keep buying tickets ) LIES all LIES.
Fool me once and it's on you, fool me twice about your MLB BASEBALL and it's on me..
So I say again take your MLB and shove it where the sun don't shine.
Please, remember that I have NOT called you an idiot nor have directed any personal insult directed to or at you. I have as much right to my opinion as you do without name calling, to think other wise is a rather unamerican don't you think.
Babble, babble, babble.

You don't have a right to an opinion which is utterly nonsensical.

I think the Habs should put Henri Richard on their first line. What, he's almost 80?I HAVE A RIGHT TO MY OPINION!!!!!!!!!!

edit: I also see a tremendous irony in what happened to the Thrashers and virtually the entire country celebrating their demise and what happened with the Expos. The situations are pretty similar.

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06-01-2011, 06:57 AM
  #53
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I'm not worried about the Jays, they are not drawing right now but people are definitely interested. They need to lower the tickets and concessions though. They are playing well ... all it takes is ONE pennent race and it will be back.

I think MLB in montreal would work again. Montrealers loved to go to Jarry Park and the older outdoor minor league venues. The Big OWE really sucked. We in Toronto do not like the Rogers Centre and it's cavernous atmosphere but when the roofs open it isn't as bad. The big owe's roof was terrible.

Why do I keep hearing about MLS? It's not even a Major League. It really is sad how far Montreal has fallen off the map when it comes to sports.

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06-01-2011, 07:27 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by DrivetoEndHunger View Post
you can have the Pirates
Do we get that stadium as well? Beautiful ball park, that's what we need in Montreal unfortunately it's not going to happen and baseball ain't coming back. MLS next year, that should be fun especially if Saputo can bring in some big name talent here

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06-01-2011, 07:53 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
As much as many of us were Expos fans, played little league, even higher levels and (not me) realllly loved baseball, I think the result would be the same -- pathetic attendance. We've had great success with the Als and I may be hasty in drawing this conclusion, but for a city who revolves around a team in a fast-paced sport, I just can't see the big-O getting even half filled for a decent portion of the season to make it profitable.

Growing up I went to a lot of 'spos games, but even I lost the desire to go and even moreso in baseball at all. This is obviously just my opinion, but I'm trying to paint it against what the true facts were about attendance in the years prior to them leaving and on a team with the league's best hitter and really not to shabby a lineup. Now that I temporarily (plz) live in the TO area, I see that Jays fans are numerous and actually do have a huge contingent that care. Maybe it's their more American nature, who knows? It WOULD be great to have the Expos back (god knows they've sold more merchandise since they left, and probably in cities that didn't even know the expos existed...odd no?...the power of "vintage"), but I don't think it would make sense for the owners financially.

Maybe I'm wrong and there would be a resurgence. I for one cannot watch baseball anymore. I'd care about the Expos, but I wouldn't watch. Habs...every practice I scrutinize.

Also, doesn't a return necessitate either an expansion or a failing MLB team? Is that the case?

Just so we're clear: I think there are LOTS of baseball fans in MTL. Just not enough.
There's quite the big difference between playing at McGill stadium and playing at the Olympic Stadium.

There's always been an issue with the location and the stadium itself just being plain old ****.

If it were in downtown Montreal I highly doubt a ton of seats don't sell especially at the prices they were selling them at.

I don't think it would be the same. I don't think it would be a complete turn around though like some people think, but at least I think the team would do okay. I'd also be happy with just getting an expansion team rather than a team moving here. Either way I still think Montreal can and would support a baseball team, just not at the Olympic stadium.

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06-01-2011, 04:59 PM
  #56
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Nice. Comeback.

MLS 2012!!

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06-02-2011, 08:30 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsByTheBay View Post
Babble, babble, babble.

You don't have a right to an opinion which is utterly nonsensical.

I think the Habs should put Henri Richard on their first line. What, he's almost 80?I HAVE A RIGHT TO MY OPINION!!!!!!!!!!

edit: I also see a tremendous irony in what happened to the Thrashers and virtually the entire country celebrating their demise and what happened with the Expos. The situations are pretty similar.
His opinion matters.

We're not discussing something objective, like science or the weather, we're discussing sports, which is cultural. Opinions are fundamental.

You say in your post that a lot of people and money left Montreal in the 1970s and 1980s due to money and politics. That's true. And they're still gone. What's your point?

The Expos would either fail or succeed in Montreal on the basis of people's opinions, opinions about the sport, about the team, et cetera. You disagree with his opinion, and that's fine, but his is a very common one in Montreal. The fans lost Pedro Martinez, Vladimir Guerrero, Larry Walker, Cliff Floyd, Javier Vasquez, etc and that is why the team was down to 4,000 fans. The minimum payroll for a competitive team would be way north of 50 million. A stadium would cost 250 million. Setting up a farm system? Don't know.

You say people came back like Lemmings in 2005 but not in 1994. That's because Canadians like hockey more. Additionally, it wasn't a pointless strike in the NHL, they actually brought in a salary cap and the NHL is a better game now. If baseball instituted a salary cap and became a more interesting sport, I might like to see them come back.

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06-02-2011, 08:36 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by FacePalm1967 View Post
Why do I keep hearing about MLS? It's not even a Major League. It really is sad how far Montreal has fallen off the map when it comes to sports.
MLS is the future. Soccer is rising in popularity extremely rapidly in North America, it's only a matter of time until it is grouped with the NHL, NBA, MLB and NBA.

Sports is just one way for a city to have culture. There are a lot of American cities with fantastic stadia and arena, where the people are sports obsessed, but they have a complete absence of museums, of festivals, and of events. I'm currently in school in a city which has a (college) football stadium with 102,000 seats that sells out for every game, but there's a complete absence of museums, of downtown nightlife, of festivals, etc.

It's not "sad" that Montreal is off the MLB maps as it is on other maps instead.

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06-02-2011, 08:42 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
His opinion matters.

We're not discussing something objective, like science or the weather, we're discussing sports, which is cultural. Opinions are fundamental.

You say in your post that a lot of people and money left Montreal in the 1970s and 1980s due to money and politics. That's true. And they're still gone. What's your point?

The Expos would either fail or succeed in Montreal on the basis of people's opinions, opinions about the sport, about the team, et cetera. You disagree with his opinion, and that's fine, but his is a very common one in Montreal. The fans lost Pedro Martinez, Vladimir Guerrero, Larry Walker, Cliff Floyd, Javier Vasquez, etc and that is why the team was down to 4,000 fans. The minimum payroll for a competitive team would be way north of 50 million. A stadium would cost 250 million. Setting up a farm system? Don't know.

You say people came back like Lemmings in 2005 but not in 1994. That's because Canadians like hockey more. Additionally, it wasn't a pointless strike in the NHL, they actually brought in a salary cap and the NHL is a better game now. If baseball instituted a salary cap and became a more interesting sport, I might like to see them come back.
They are still gone but Quebec has been steadily recovering ever since. We can handle a baseball team again for sure.

I'm not even disagreeing with the rest of what you said and I do think it's a scam that in the MLB there isn't a salary cap. I still would be happy to go see the Expos though if it were in a new stadium downtown and I guarantee a lot of other people would be interested too. I know people are saying if we had a bad team for many years the fan base would fall off, believe it or not though I know a lot of people just myself who would start going to games and even possibly get season tickets again regardless of the team we start off with or have. If I alone know dozens of people who would be thrilled and would go to several games a year it isn't that far fetched that others will too. I highly doubt I'm in the rare minority that just happens to know certain people who love baseball

That being said I'm not saying it would be a huge success but it would definitely work. Would we be competitive? Maybe not but I still see it being successful enough to stick around. I don't disagree about the way the MLB is run though, it's a pretty big joke when you think about it. You have people from places that have their own team who are NYY and Red Sox fans purely because their team sucks and always will. That's just not the type of fan I am though and same goes for a lot of other people. Some people did start following other teams once they left, a lot didn't but would follow the expo's if they came back. Again though I'm not saying we sell out every game

If the habs were a 12-15th place team each year like your typical Leafs team, I'd still be watching all the games and chatting here with you all about prospects and such.

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06-02-2011, 07:26 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
MLS is the future. Soccer is rising in popularity extremely rapidly in North America, it's only a matter of time until it is grouped with the NHL, NBA, MLB and NBA.

Sports is just one way for a city to have culture. There are a lot of American cities with fantastic stadia and arena, where the people are sports obsessed, but they have a complete absence of museums, of festivals, and of events. I'm currently in school in a city which has a (college) football stadium with 102,000 seats that sells out for every game, but there's a complete absence of museums, of downtown nightlife, of festivals, etc.

It's not "sad" that Montreal is off the MLB maps as it is on other maps instead.
Is MLS rising at the same rate? No sir... probably because soccer fans (like me) know that there is a parking lot full of leagues that are better than the MLS in terms of quality. I'm not saying I don't like the MLS. I enjoy MLS just as much as any other MLS fan, but it's not Major League by any means. I have been a fan of the league since 2002 and while there has been growth it hasn't grown at a rapid rate.

A lot of people in Montreal are settling. It's only my opinion but I really do want Montreal/Vancouver back on the map when it comes to sports. It's totally realistic too when it comes to our economics and growth.

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06-02-2011, 07:32 PM
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You MLS people. Not knocking it, but what are the payrolls, are they even higher than the CFL?

It's not a true Major League, maybe one day it can in 20 Years! But you cannot even group it with the Big North American 4, The EPL is a real Soccer League. Glad Montreal will have a team, but even at the end the Expos were spending 20-24 Mill a season in MLB(Vlad was 5-6 Mil), what will the Impact spend the 1st Season?

For me a true Major League, is one that your City can sign the best in the world if your aloud to spend the cash.

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06-02-2011, 07:40 PM
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I watch every Habs game, my 4 year old came home in a Habs jersey and is already a huge fan - but the 'Spos were my life. Unfortunately, baseball will not work in MTL until it gets a salary cap. True the Yanks have only won 1 world series in 11 years - but practically each year 6 out of the 8 playoff teams are in the top 12 of payroll. The economics of the game are really tilted to those teams that can buy free agents and pay to retain their own home grown talent.
Also, for baseball to really work in MTL, the franchise must make a much, much greater effort to bring in the francophone population. Yes, there were francophone fans, but for the most part, the 'Spos were seen as an English team and the fanbase was considerably smaller because of it. The francophone population never really embraced the team. If the new owner was someone like Qubecor - things might work out better.

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06-02-2011, 07:40 PM
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Under current conditions? No, I don't think so.

Unfortunately, the stadium sucked and there's no salary cap. The fans stayed away in droves (the reasons won't matter to MLB, they'll just look at the historical attendance numbers) and baseball seems to be on the decline across North America in general.

I don't see it happening anytime soon, sadly.

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06-02-2011, 09:49 PM
  #64
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Under current conditions? No, I don't think so.

Unfortunately, the stadium sucked and there's no salary cap. The fans stayed away in droves (the reasons won't matter to MLB, they'll just look at the historical attendance numbers) and baseball seems to be on the decline across North America in general.

I don't see it happening anytime soon, sadly.
Actually, the Federation de Baseball Amateur du Quebec, grouping minor baseball particularly, has seen approximately 7% growth in membership PER YEAR for the last THREE years. Also, more Quebecers and other Canadians are in the minor pros and major leagues than ever before in the history of the game.

I am currently working on a few potential projects to bring professional baseball to Montreal; hopefully one will click. We have some really significant likely backers and partners on this.

If minor pro ball succeeds big-time, and I think it can, we will then be in a better position to try and land an MLB franchise again.

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06-03-2011, 08:59 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Habs23 View Post
You MLS people. Not knocking it, but what are the payrolls, are they even higher than the CFL?

It's not a true Major League, maybe one day it can in 20 Years! But you cannot even group it with the Big North American 4, The EPL is a real Soccer League. Glad Montreal will have a team, but even at the end the Expos were spending 20-24 Mill a season in MLB(Vlad was 5-6 Mil), what will the Impact spend the 1st Season?

For me a true Major League, is one that your City can sign the best in the world if your aloud to spend the cash.
By that token, hard to group the NHL with the big north american 3 (MLB, NBA, NFL) ...

The MLS is not there yet, it's obviously inferior to the EPL, but it's trending downwards.

Baseball, meanwhile, is objectively on a long-term decline in popularity, it's a sport in crisis. Kids are not playing baseball as much, and fans are not as interested in the game.

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06-03-2011, 09:07 AM
  #66
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Once Montreal joins the MLS I plan on getting season tickets. MLB will never work in Montreal, baseball isn't an exciting sport, it's really boring.

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06-03-2011, 11:22 AM
  #67
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baseball needs 35 ooo a game not 13 000

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06-03-2011, 12:22 PM
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Baseball is a different ball game !!! Have you checked the salaries ?

Montreal market cannot support MLB anymore even if you average 25,000-30,000 fans per game at the park. + Would they play at the Big O ?

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06-03-2011, 12:25 PM
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30,000 fans a game times 20 dollars per ticket times 81 games a year = 49 million in revenue. That's not even close, you would also need some more expensive seats, people to buy beers and hot dogs at the stadium, luxury corporate seats, and TV and radio rights.

In contrast, expos tickets were like 8 dollars per game rather than 20 dollars, and there were only 5,000 fans in the stadium. They would get higher attendance when they gave out bobbleheads because people bought multiple seats to win the bobbleheads.

One advantage however, is that the Canadian dollar is now worth US$ 1.02, whereas it was worth US$ 0.70 back in the day. For those not mathematically inclined, that's equivalent in terms of "market size" to having Montreal's population increase from 3 million to 4.3 million. If the Canadian dollar keeps rising, we might see a lot more professional sports teams in Canada.

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06-03-2011, 01:51 PM
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If the MLB goes with a Salary cap and Montreal builds a new stadium, the Expos might come back, but it'll take a lot to bring them back. The Nordiques have a better chance than the Expos IMO.

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06-03-2011, 05:59 PM
  #71
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Actually, the Federation de Baseball Amateur du Quebec, grouping minor baseball particularly, has seen approximately 7% growth in membership PER YEAR for the last THREE years. Also, more Quebecers and other Canadians are in the minor pros and major leagues than ever before in the history of the game.

I am currently working on a few potential projects to bring professional baseball to Montreal; hopefully one will click. We have some really significant likely backers and partners on this.

If minor pro ball succeeds big-time, and I think it can, we will then be in a better position to try and land an MLB franchise again.
I wish you luck in bringing the Expos back.

I would love to see them in Montreal again. Personally, I don't see it happening without major changes (ie. salary cap, new stadium etc...) and I don't see major league baseball going down that path again.

Then again if the Jets can come back, who's to say the Expos can't too.

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06-04-2011, 03:38 PM
  #72
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If Winnipeg is still looking for a nickname of the hockey team call them The Winnipeg Whips which was the name of The Expos farm team when it was in Winnipeg......

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06-04-2011, 06:06 PM
  #73
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you can have the Pirates

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