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Scott Hartnell to St. Louis

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Old
06-01-2011, 01:59 PM
  #1
Halak Ness Monster
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Scott Hartnell to St. Louis

Well it looks like Coburn to St. Louis was shot down. Let's try a little more, I guess, realistic route.

What would it take for the Blues to get Scott Hartnell?

With Tarasenko staying in Russia and David Perron still suffering headaches, it's looking like there will be a hole on the 3rd line at LW for St. Louis.

The team is a little cash strapped so 3.7 million(in dollars, not cap hit) might be a bit much but Hartnell seems like the kind of player Doug Armstrong wants for this team.

I'd love to see this top 9:
Oshie-Berglund-Stewart
McDonald-Backes-Steen
Hartnell-Sobotka-D'Agostini

If Perron comes back I would move Sobotka down to the 4th line and make McDonald the center on the 3rd line. McDonald was the center on Anaheim's top line when they won the cup so I think he could handle it.
Sobotka would possibly move to the wing on the 4th line(depending on who is the 4th line center), which may not be the best for him, but with the injuries the Blues always get, having good depth is smart.

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06-01-2011, 02:07 PM
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Cole + 3rd?

Edit: Or Hartnell + 3rd for Shatty.

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06-01-2011, 02:09 PM
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Why? What role do you seem him in that we're lacking? We have plenty of rough guys who take stupid penalties and go on hot streaks to make up for it.

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06-01-2011, 02:14 PM
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why?

Immediate responses you're going to get are: "We want Oshie" so I'm not sure why you keep running these trade ideas up the flag pole, but I guess that's what this forum is for. Still the replies you get are comical (like the Rags fan who wanted Chris Stewart in exchange for a 3rd line center) so I guess that's something. No fan is going to give you the response you want, which is "yeah you can have him for Della Rovere and your 2 second round picks" or something along those lines. You have already said that you are aware the Blues are not giving up a "core piece" (esp. for someone with a price tag like Hartnell) and yet that is what the other teams fans keep asking for. Nobody is going to say "sure, have this guy for a couple of picks" unless the player in question is a Chris Drury/Wade Redden type with just an albatross of a contract in which case the Blues have zero interest.

I just get the feeling you're trying to get something "on the cheap" and other teams fans keep asking for the moon where St.Louis is concerned. Watch how many "we want Oshie" responses you get... then maybe you'll move on. I figured the Coburn thread would have given you an indication that you're not going to get a productive player for anything less than a good return - and as I said, we both know the Blues aren't trading core pieces anytime soon - and yet all the responses you'll get are going to be for core component players like Berglund and Oshie. Just watch...

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06-01-2011, 02:17 PM
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Halak Ness Monster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coppy View Post
Cole + 3rd?

Edit: Or Hartnell + 3rd for Shatty.
The 2nd one is ridiculous. Shatty is a 22 year old defenseman that put up 40 points. The comparisons to Rafalski by Avs fans were not far off.

I'm think more along the lines of 2, 2nd round picks(41 and 46).

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06-01-2011, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Halak Ness Monster View Post
The 2nd one is ridiculous. Shatty is a 22 year old defenseman that put up 40 points. The comparisons to Rafalski by Avs fans were not far off.

I'm think more along the lines of 2, 2nd round picks(41 and 46).

See what I'm talking about? You're trying to get something "on the cheap" and other teams fans aren't interested. And besides I'd be shocked (and repulsed) if the Blues had any interest in bringing the Scott Hartnell Show to St.Louis. I'd like to thing his act wouldn't fly in St.Louis and personally I don't think he'd represent the Note very well. His act is tired.

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06-01-2011, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnAirplaneOverTheSea View Post
Immediate responses you're going to get are: "We want Oshie" so I'm not sure why you keep running these trade ideas up the flag pole, but I guess that's what this forum is for. Still the replies you get are comical (like the Rags fan who wanted Chris Stewart in exchange for a 3rd line center) so I guess that's something. No fan is going to give you the response you want, which is "yeah you can have him for Della Rovere and your 2 second round picks" or something along those lines. You have already said that you are aware the Blues are not giving up a "core piece" (esp. for someone with a price tag like Hartnell) and yet that is what the other teams fans keep asking for. Nobody is going to say "sure, have this guy for a couple of picks" unless the player in question is a Chris Drury/Wade Redden type with just an albatross of a contract in which case the Blues have zero interest.

I just get the feeling you're trying to get something "on the cheap" and other teams fans keep asking for the moon where St.Louis is concerned. Watch how many "we want Oshie" responses you get... then maybe you'll move on. I figured the Coburn thread would have given you an indication that you're not going to get a productive player for anything less than a good return - and as I said, we both know the Blues aren't trading core pieces anytime soon - and yet all the responses you'll get are going to be for core component players like Berglund and Oshie. Just watch...
As you said, the forum serves the very purpose of discussing fantasy trades.

With this thread, I'm half looking to see if Flyers fans think Hartnell is more of a salary dump(which means 2nd/3rd round picks and mid level prospects at his salary) and half looking to see what Blues fans think of Hartnell as a possible addition.

I'm not looking to get someone on the cheap. I can't make trades for real here. It's just a forum.

As for Coburn, I quickly realized that he was a bigger part of the Flyers future than I first thought. It made sense for them not to trade him.
With Hartnell, I'm not sure he is a big part of the Flyers future. However, like I said, the purpose of this thread is to see what Flyers fans think about Hartnell's worth to the team. Not really to make a deal. It's just a forum.

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06-01-2011, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnAirplaneOverTheSea View Post
See what I'm talking about? You're trying to get something "on the cheap" and other teams fans aren't interested.
Again, not really. It's just a forum. You can't make real trades here.

When I offer up 2, 2nd round picks, it's my way of saying I think Hartnell is more of a salary dump for the Flyers so they can get a goalie.

What I'm hoping to see is if Flyers fans think the same way. They would know the Flyers intentions a little better than a Blues fan.

However, the one guy asking for Shattenkirk has me confused. Did I ask for Jeff Carter or did I ask for Hartnell?

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06-01-2011, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halak Ness Monster View Post
The 2nd one is ridiculous. Shatty is a 22 year old defenseman that put up 40 points. The comparisons to Rafalski by Avs fans were not far off.

I'm think more along the lines of 2, 2nd round picks(41 and 46).
He also has some wholes in his defensive game. Hartnell is an established 20-25 goal scorer who plays physical and can create a lot of space for his line mates.

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06-01-2011, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Coppy View Post
He also has some wholes in his defensive game.
He was a 22 year old rookie. I'd expect him to have some holes. And those holes weren't as big as you'd think. He was fine defensively and outstanding offensively. He is pretty much a smaller Pietrangelo.

If we are talking Jeff Carter, that is a little more reasonable. Although Shatty isn't going anywhere, even though I'd love to have Carter.

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06-01-2011, 02:45 PM
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The Flyers need to make a move or two to create cap space for the goalie. Carle, Versteeg and not re-signing Leino are the primary targets in that regard. Hartnell is likely next up, but would only be moved in a deal that brings back quality most likely. Otherwise it would make more sense to move Carle/Versteeg for picks.

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06-01-2011, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NitHeel View Post
The Flyers need to make a move or two to create cap space for the goalie. Carle, Versteeg and not re-signing Leino are the primary targets in that regard. Hartnell is likely next up, but would only be moved in a deal that brings back quality most likely. Otherwise it would make more sense to move Carle/Versteeg for picks.
THANK YOU!

Exactly what I was looking for with this thread. Information.

What is quality in your opinion?

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06-01-2011, 02:54 PM
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The Blues have two guys who play a similar stye but at a higher level than Hartnell in Backes and Stewart. They also have invested quite a nice sum in those two, adding Hartnell at $4.2mil per year doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Although this team would be absolute hell to play against with Hartnell in their aswell.

From a Flyers perspective Hartnell is a guy I would only deal if we can get a similar guy and save some cash on the cap at the same time. Our forwards are Montreal-esque (in terms of size) without him. In fact, the Flyers should only look to add size to their forwards instead of remove it.

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06-01-2011, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halak Ness Monster View Post
He was a 22 year old rookie. I'd expect him to have some holes. And those holes weren't as big as you'd think. He was fine defensively and outstanding offensively. He is pretty much a smaller Pietrangelo.

If we are talking Jeff Carter, that is a little more reasonable. Although Shatty isn't going anywhere, even though I'd love to have Carter.

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06-01-2011, 05:52 PM
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We don't need Hartnell, remember we were 10th in scoring, all that without Perron and only Stewart at the end.

Also, McDonald will be no where near the 3rd line, if anyone will center the 3rd line if Perron comes back it will be Oshie.

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06-01-2011, 06:02 PM
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If you go back and look what Flyers fans have been saying they'd take for Hartnell in other threads, it's pretty clear it's to clear cap space and thus they'd want prospects/picks. I've seen a 1st and a 3d as the price from the most recent thread about it about a dozen pages back and nobody thought that was too little from what I saw.

As soon as one specific team says they want him, his price seems to go up from what has been stated earlier.

Obviously the Blues don't have a first this year but they have enough 2ds to easily move into the first round although this is a particular draft where those 2ds are in a sweet spot to draft all players who've been discussed as likely or possible first rounders. Just watch what happens to those picks' value when the first round is done Friday night at the draft and there are players on the board that some teams are shocked are still available. Philly needs picks and prospects badly and they need cap relief, the Blues have a bunch of extra picks with good value and they have a very nice prospect pool. I think the teams are good trading partners in that respect. Schwartz, Tarasenko and Allen are off limits in a trade for the quality-but-complementary player that Hartnell is, and I'm not sure Philly needs Cole but the rest of the prospects would be available.

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06-01-2011, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NitHeel View Post
The Flyers need to make a move or two to create cap space for the goalie. Carle, Versteeg and not re-signing Leino are the primary targets in that regard.
Personally, I'd rather go after Ville Leino for the Blues' third line than have to give up the ranch for Hartnell.

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06-01-2011, 08:14 PM
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Personally, I'd rather go after Ville Leino for the Blues' third line than have to give up the ranch for Hartnell.
Agreed, Leino would be perfect

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06-01-2011, 09:43 PM
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Personally, I'd rather go after Ville Leino for the Blues' third line than have to give up the ranch for Hartnell.
My guess is that he either A) doesn't make it to FA or B) has his rights traded

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06-01-2011, 09:49 PM
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My guess is that he either A) doesn't make it to FA or B) has his rights traded
Considering how much Leino wants, I doubt the Flyers re-sign him. He will more than likely go to free agency.

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06-01-2011, 10:18 PM
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Considering how much Leino wants, I doubt the Flyers re-sign him. He will more than likely go to free agency.
...or have his rights traded for a pick.

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06-01-2011, 11:44 PM
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St. Louis Power forwards.

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06-02-2011, 12:15 AM
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Halak Ness Monster
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St. Louis Power forwards.
Exactly. Armstrong may try to turn the Blues into the toughest team in the league. Playing against Backes, Hartnell, Oshie and Stewart in a 7 game series wouldn't be much fun.

And what makes Leino more of a perfect fit than Hartnell, besides not having to give up a pick and a prospect?
Leino is likely to be overpaid in free agency(if available)and it is just for one good season. He is maybe a 50 point forward like Hartnell but he doesn't provide the overall game that Hartnell does.

I wouldn't mind Leino but Hartnell is a better and safer fit in my eyes.

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06-02-2011, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Halak Ness Monster View Post
Again, not really. It's just a forum. You can't make real trades here.

When I offer up 2, 2nd round picks, it's my way of saying I think Hartnell is more of a salary dump for the Flyers so they can get a goalie.

What I'm hoping to see is if Flyers fans think the same way. They would know the Flyers intentions a little better than a Blues fan.

However, the one guy asking for Shattenkirk has me confused. Did I ask for Jeff Carter or did I ask for Hartnell?
Hartnell is NOT just a salary dump for us. Holmgren has said a number of time (sometimes to the press, twice to the season ticket holders at our "townhall meeting) that he has been contacted by multiple teams each of the last 2 years about the availability of Scott Hartnell. If we want to deal him we can and the cost WILL be fair market value (think a 1st or a good young player/prospect). He won't be "dumped" for two 2nd rnd picks in a weak draft.

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06-02-2011, 12:42 AM
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Oh, and I really don't know very much about the Blues younger players or prospects to know what would be fair but I can tell you that I LOVE Oshie and would love to get him (and I think the value is a lot closer than most realize) but I also know that I have a much better chance of actually hitting the devil in the side of the face with a snowball than we do of getting Oshie for Hartnell, lol.

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