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Old
06-01-2011, 02:39 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Did I ever say that there weren't credible writers?
No, but you totally negated any presence they may have.


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06-01-2011, 02:39 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Again what you are saying is not wrong but everybody is engaging in deflection from root issues in some way or another. The media does need to stick to reporting the news but the other side has to also allow for actual news to be reported.
I don't necessarilly see much deflection from root issues. I don't see the media actually asking the questions that pertain to the root causes of the problem. Richards is probably the only one I've seen who's had a major problem talking with the media. I'd agree that maybe he has to be better, but I don't really blame him. He's their favorite whipping boy.

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06-01-2011, 02:41 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Well, the Flyers have won 100% of the games Shelley has scored in. That's a hell of a stat. Totally worth it.
They also won 100% of the games Leighton started in the regular season this year. Holmgren = Genius!

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06-01-2011, 02:46 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by FlyerSithLord View Post
I don't necessarilly see much deflection from root issues. I don't see the media actually asking the questions that pertain to the root causes of the problem. Richards is probably the only one I've seen who's had a major problem talking with the media. I'd agree that maybe he has to be better, but I don't really blame him. He's their favorite whipping boy.
Really..when Holmgren says I don't know, it is what it is, what are you going to do, we'll see how it goes etc. I've seen some legit questions being asked in pressers...again I think people are generalizing a bit too much about what the media is not doing. Far from perfect but that is the same on the other side too. I repeat shared responsibility by the players, media, management and pundits alike to stick to the facts as Cronkite used to say...

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06-01-2011, 02:49 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
The real question here is why you're calling me a dumb ass...

You're trolling. Knock it off.
That's not a question at all. It's clear. It's because what you wrote deserves it. I'm not trolling. I'm calling you out for offering some apathetic reason that envelopes all of humanity as something that explains why Flyers fans aren't as knowledgeable as they can be. No, it's not that people in a position to help them know more don't do their job, it's that they're just dumb, and willing to accept to dumb **** as truth because they're too dumb to think otherwise.

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06-01-2011, 02:50 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Really..when Holmgren says I don't know, it is what it is, what are you going to do, we'll see how it goes etc. I've seen some legit questions being asked in pressers...again I think people are generalizing a bit too much about what the media is not doing. Far from perfect but that is the same on the other side too. I repeat shared responsibility by the players, media, management and pundits alike to stick to the facts as Cronkite used to say...
Well, you're right about Holmgren. I wasn't even thinking of that ********.

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06-01-2011, 02:57 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Again what you are saying is not wrong but everybody is engaging in deflection from root issues in some way or another. The media does need to stick to reporting the news but the other side has to also allow for actual news to be reported. It's not a one way street and don't see it as such. I see irresponsibility on the part of players, management etc as well. Unfortunately all the obfuscation whether it is deliberate or not is damaging to those on the other end..the fans etc. Not everybody has critical thinking skills unfortunately and they love the Snooki-like info-tainment aspect that corporate media trots out there when they can't get a legit scoop whether it's because of their own incompetence, profit driven sensationalism, or the other side's intransigence and censorship...
You're kind of ignoring that the current group of media superstars in Philly are the primary reason news supposedly cannot be reported. They embraced writing about a lot of stupid crap, asking a lot of stupid questions, and generally treating the young players on this team rather awfully in the grand scheme of things. None of them would have appreciated, or accepted someone writing about their personal activities (importantly, we're NOT talking about these guys in professional settings) the way that these writers did. They then took what these guys were doing in their personal time and turned it into a referendum on them professionally with no evidence whatsoever that the two were linked in any way.

Seriously...

Young team in their first real playoff experience (we'll ignore the Buffalo series) beat a tough Caps team in a Game 7 OT, go out and beat a notably better Montreal team, and lose to the Pens (who were also a better team than them).

Everyone loves 'em.

Next year they come back and with multiple players injured play the eventual Cup Champions extremely tough in a 6 game series... that June the idiot GM babbles about the guys drinking (I'm not even going to begin to get into the problems with Holmgren's opinion on alcohol consumption) and suddenly we have this story that just won't stop. In comes the HS beat writer turned "professional hockey writer" and he cannot stop talking about this and ends up nuking his relationship with the Captain of the team.

That team then goes to the Cup Finals (after the much needed coaching change that none of these a**holes ever bothered to write about in the years before then)... and everyone loves 'em.

Team loses in the 2nd round... and suddenly they're all babbling about stripping Richards of the captaincy.

They're a *ing joke... that, however, isn't the real problem. The real problem is that we're talking about a human profession, and a human interaction, and the writers made choices in what they wanted to write about that has negatively impacted their ability to do their job. If your Mike Richards, why on Earth do you have any interest in helping Sam Carchidi do his job? You don't. Richards, however, is there getting interviewed after every single game... so to suggest he's really hampering the news getting out there is a bit much.

Sports journalism pretty much blows right now across the board. There are a handful of guys that are any good (regardless of where you look), and in hockey it is particularly bad. Here in Philly, we're served largely by a bunch of jackasses and moron. Timmeh P is a bitter dude that has been around the sport and this organization far too long and it is reflected in his (poor) writing. Carchidi is some guy that shouldn't be anywhere near the beat he has... and Seravelli... whatever. Then you have guys like Gormley and Fish floating around who are OK, but not all that invested at this point really (no one F'd up cap stuff more than Gormley).

These guys crying about the players is pure BS. They made their bed... and their unwillingness to police some of their own guys cemented it. In the most recent spat you began to see the twinkling that it was dawning on ASF that there was a very real problem at this point, given that he all but agreed publicly with Richards lashing out at Timmeh P "journalism".

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06-01-2011, 02:59 PM
  #108
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I'm going to stop, but only because trying to have any sort of intelligent conversation with you precludes actually having something to say.

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06-01-2011, 03:05 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Really..when Holmgren says I don't know, it is what it is, what are you going to do, we'll see how it goes etc. I've seen some legit questions being asked in pressers...again I think people are generalizing a bit too much about what the media is not doing. Far from perfect but that is the same on the other side too. I repeat shared responsibility by the players, media, management and pundits alike to stick to the facts as Cronkite used to say...
Holmgren has given extremely informative answers and these idiots are incapable of really getting at what it is he says. A few years back he announced publicly that he had to sit down with his coach and demand that he come up with a real forechecking scheme. That's a friggin whopper. Did anyone bother to really write about that? Nope.

This is after Mike Knuble announced publicly that the team didn't PRACTICE 5 on 6 defense until the season was 3/4 done.

Mike Richards publicly called out Paul Holmgren cap management and the negative impact it had on the team, which Holmgren subsequently all but agreed with. Much written about that, or hard critical analysis of Holmgren's job performance in general? Nope.

A month later Holmgren opined that the young players were out drinking too much -- this "frat house" meme that has taken over -- did the writers jump all over that? Yep.

All of this without getting into the fact that Holmgren's "I don't know," "it is what it is," etc. are *ing news pieces as well. Not nearly enough was made of the Randy Jones fiasco when Holmgren publicly admitted that he'd just played roulette with the team's cap flexibility that he'd spent all summer creating, and had been the mandate coming out of the previous season.

There are plenty of news stories, and plenty of quotes... the media just doesn't write about 'em.

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06-01-2011, 03:12 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You're kind of ignoring that the current group of media superstars in Philly are the primary reason news supposedly cannot be reported. They embraced writing about a lot of stupid crap, asking a lot of stupid questions, and generally treating the young players on this team rather awfully in the grand scheme of things. None of them would have appreciated, or accepted someone writing about their personal activities (importantly, we're NOT talking about these guys in professional settings) the way that these writers did. They then took what these guys were doing in their personal time and turned it into a referendum on them professionally with no evidence whatsoever that the two were linked in any way.

Seriously...

Young team in their first real playoff experience (we'll ignore the Buffalo series) beat a tough Caps team in a Game 7 OT, go out and beat a notably better Montreal team, and lose to the Pens (who were also a better team than them).

Everyone loves 'em.

Next year they come back and with multiple players injured play the eventual Cup Champions extremely tough in a 6 game series... that June the idiot GM babbles about the guys drinking (I'm not even going to begin to get into the problems with Holmgren's opinion on alcohol consumption) and suddenly we have this story that just won't stop. In comes the HS beat writer turned "professional hockey writer" and he cannot stop talking about this and ends up nuking his relationship with the Captain of the team.

That team then goes to the Cup Finals (after the much needed coaching change that none of these a**holes ever bothered to write about in the years before then)... and everyone loves 'em.

Team loses in the 2nd round... and suddenly they're all babbling about stripping Richards of the captaincy.

They're a *ing joke... that, however, isn't the real problem. The real problem is that we're talking about a human profession, and a human interaction, and the writers made choices in what they wanted to write about that has negatively impacted their ability to do their job. If your Mike Richards, why on Earth do you have any interest in helping Sam Carchidi do his job? You don't. Richards, however, is there getting interviewed after every single game... so to suggest he's really hampering the news getting out there is a bit much.

Sports journalism pretty much blows right now across the board. There are a handful of guys that are any good (regardless of where you look), and in hockey it is particularly bad. Here in Philly, we're served largely by a bunch of jackasses and moron. Timmeh P is a bitter dude that has been around the sport and this organization far too long and it is reflected in his (poor) writing. Carchidi is some guy that shouldn't be anywhere near the beat he has... and Seravelli... whatever. Then you have guys like Gormley and Fish floating around who are OK, but not all that invested at this point really (no one F'd up cap stuff more than Gormley).

These guys crying about the players is pure BS. They made their bed... and their unwillingness to police some of their own guys cemented it. In the most recent spat you began to see the twinkling that it was dawning on ASF that there was a very real problem at this point, given that he all but agreed publicly with Richards lashing out at Timmeh P "journalism".
Nope nothing I said suggests I'm ignoring the current crop or crap in some people's eyes of Philly reporters. Although you did use the term "kind of" so not sure how you can criticize me on something where I'm talking about shared responsibility on the part of all the stakeholder's for the benefit of the fan? I'm aware of the flaws I just don't want to focus emotionally on berating one particular side of the equation. Heck if people want to focus on just the media's shortcomings that is their deal.. I don't particularly agree with that angle nor condone the response from the other side whether one thinks it is warranted or not.

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06-01-2011, 03:18 PM
  #111
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Nope nothing I said suggests I'm ignoring the current crop or crap in some people's eyes of Philly reporters. Although you did use the term "kind of" so not sure how you can criticize me on something where I'm talking about shared responsibility on the part of all the stakeholder's for the benefit of the fan? I'm aware of the flaws I just don't want to focus emotionally on berating one particular side of the equation. Heck if people want to focus on just the media's shortcomings that is their deal.. I don't particularly agree with that angle nor condone the response from the other side whether one thinks it is warranted or not.
What did the players do to sour the relationship? That's the problem here. This isn't about players refusing to get interviewed and all that jazz. The media very clearly created a negative environment with key members of this team, and they now wonder why those guys aren't all that thrilled to interact with 'em. Ask the Canadian folk, by all accounts Richards is a completely different guy dealing with the Canadian media.

That suggests that the problems with Richards is not his supposed personality deficiencies (which Holmgren in his infinite *ing wisdom bandied out there after this season), but something specific to his interactions with the media here in Philly.

Timmeh P has been a jackass for years, and a juvenile one at that.

The reality is that the problem is two-fold.

1) The media should have realized that spending their time writing and asking about the players drinking habits, etc. was the wrong tree to be barking up if they wanted to maintain a positive professional relationship with key members of this team. Seriously, if you were to post in a public domain impugning someone you had a business relationship and all but calling them an alcoholic... would you expect your professional relationship to continue? Cuz that's what the media expects.

2) The organization completely mishandled this situation by not backing up the players. Some criticism of the team is completely fair, but Holmgren going out there and babbling about the players drinking habits (again, he's not a reliable source on this type of stuff), not calling out he media to focus on hockey, and most recently suggesting that Richards has a deficient personality when it comes to public interactions... just encourages the media.

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06-01-2011, 03:30 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
What did the players do to sour the relationship? That's the problem here. This isn't about players refusing to get interviewed and all that jazz. The media very clearly created a negative environment with key members of this team, and they now wonder why those guys aren't all that thrilled to interact with 'em. Ask the Canadian folk, by all accounts Richards is a completely different guy dealing with the Canadian media.

That suggests that the problems with Richards is not his supposed personality deficiencies (which Holmgren in his infinite *ing wisdom bandied out there after this season), but something specific to his interactions with the media here in Philly.

Timmeh P has been a jackass for years, and a juvenile one at that.
I've never really questioned the valid personal grievances of the players although I still don't agree with how they react emotionally but everybody is human. The problem to me is the focus on this distracting personal BS as I've expressed with respect to it being a red herring and a crutch for some and how it prevents the fans from getting answers on the root issues. Not sure how else I can express this. I just don't see it as completely a media problem..I think it takes two to tango and I see things from the other side I don't agree with. You suggest as much by bringing up Holmgren and how he doesn't help matters with his big mouth when he actually does say something. Actually, I bet he prefers to talk about the Richards "crap" as he's referred to it more than he lets on b/c he deflects from some of the harder questions that do get asked of him and he uses his defence mechanism tag lines. I just don't see it as black and white.

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06-01-2011, 03:55 PM
  #113
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This is a great thread with a lot of great opinions. Jester has hit it flat on the sweet spot.

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06-01-2011, 04:02 PM
  #114
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I've never really questioned the valid personal grievances of the players although I still don't agree with how they react emotionally but everybody is human. The problem to me is the focus on this distracting personal BS as I've expressed with respect to it being a red herring and a crutch for some and how it prevents the fans from getting answers on the root issues. Not sure how else I can express this. I just don't see it as completely a media problem..I think it takes two to tango and I see things from the other side I don't agree with. You suggest as much by bringing up Holmgren and how he doesn't help matters with his big mouth when he actually does say something. Actually, I bet he prefers to talk about the Richards "crap" as he's referred to it more than he lets on b/c he deflects from some of the harder questions that do get asked of him and he uses his defence mechanism tag lines. I just don't see it as black and white.
Nothing is black and white in life. At the same time, the threads that lead to Richards' rupture with the media are relatively clear, IMO. We know the exact sequence of events that led to him getting ticked off with the media and shutting down on 'em. Hell, we know the date when he decided enough was enough.

10 October 2009.

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06-01-2011, 06:00 PM
  #115
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Nothing is black and white in life. At the same time, the threads that lead to Richards' rupture with the media are relatively clear, IMO. We know the exact sequence of events that led to him getting ticked off with the media and shutting down on 'em. Hell, we know the date when he decided enough was enough.

10 October 2009.
Can you remind me/us what happened then? I don't remember what you're referencing.

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06-01-2011, 06:07 PM
  #116
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Can you remind me/us what happened then? I don't remember what you're referencing.
I believe that's around the time he got tired of them talking about drinking, and how Lupul was traded because he drank too much. So he just told them they were full of **** and stopped talking to them.

I think.

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06-01-2011, 06:41 PM
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Then Carchidi published his "Captain Whine" excuse for an article, shattering what little credibility he had left.

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06-01-2011, 06:52 PM
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Then Carchidi published his "Captain Whine" excuse for an article, shattering what little credibility he had left.
What, you didn't think that was example of professional reporting?

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06-01-2011, 07:22 PM
  #119
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Then Carchidi published his "Captain Whine" excuse for an article, shattering what little credibility he had left.
lol I remember that. What an ass.

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06-01-2011, 07:46 PM
  #120
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I'd hazard a guess that Carter works out.

He looks like he's dying. Obviously he's out of shape, trade him!

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06-01-2011, 07:48 PM
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He looks like he's dying. Obviously he's out of shape, trade him!
haha...clearly, those aren't muscles. It's just very oddly shaped fat.

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06-01-2011, 07:53 PM
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haha...clearly, those aren't muscles. It's just very oddly shaped fat.

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06-01-2011, 08:17 PM
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Can you remind me/us what happened then? I don't remember what you're referencing.
Anaheim came to town and they started in on Lupul about the drinking. Richards was done with em that night.

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06-01-2011, 08:26 PM
  #124
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haha...clearly, those aren't muscles. It's just very oddly shaped fat.
It's actually all rolls. He's on a downward step there, so all the fat is plummeting to the earth. What looks like the outline of well toned muscle is actually a mere coincidence of the fat moving in sync. It's like aurora borealis -- extremely rare, and very beautiful.

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06-02-2011, 07:06 AM
  #125
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I remember that run. If i remember correctly though, the flyers were pretty terrible at long distance running.

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