There's no rule that says you can only have one designated offensive defensemen. I mean c'mon, Leetch and Zubov?
To me the Erixon trade in no way indicates giving up on Del Zotto.
No one is saying they're giving up on him.
The fact is this team still lacks offense and will need find a way to get it. They are no deep on the blueline. It's right to assume that they would consider moving a defenseman and MDZ seems like the logical choice right now.
Yeah but MDZ fits this team perfectly, guys have a bad year.
Guy is working hard to get back out there and fulfill his potential. Remember we were talking about him pairing with Staal when he came up and saw his potential.
Yeah but MDZ fits this team perfectly, guys have a bad year.
Guy is working hard to get back out there and fulfill his potential. Remember we were talking about him pairing with Staal when he came up and saw his potential.
I don't remember that. Also, that's not really all too important in terms of making the team. With the acquisition of Erixon, if you can get a top line LW in a package with Del Zotto going back the other way, as much as I like his game, you have to do it.
The fact is this management wanes on guys who don't take the next step or progress.
true but I don't think they're so impatient as to give up on a guy who showed he can produce in the NHL and is still only 21. I doubt they're going to trade Del Zotto now unless it's for a very nice return. I would guess they want to see what he can do this year first
The fact is this team still lacks offense and will need find a way to get it. They are no deep on the blueline. It's right to assume that they would consider moving a defenseman and MDZ seems like the logical choice right now.
We lack offense, so why move our defensemen with the most offensive potential? Especially one that has shown good production on the PP...which is a major headache for this team.
Also, there's no question that we have a strength on defense in general, but my gut tells me that you move players when the league sentiment is positive on them. That's how you get the most value. If we move Del Zotto now after a disappointing year that probably has teams around the league feeling luke-warm on him, how much value can we get back?
I'd think it's much more wise to look into dealing McD. He too is young and was a high draft pick, except he's coming off a year where he took a step forward. Teams around the league have to have taken notice of this. Plus, I think he projects to be more of a defensive dman...which would be dealing from a position of strength within a position of strength.
While Del Zotto may be perceived as having "low" value around the league by the HF posters, it's highly unlikely the people that matter feel the same way. Teams don't, or at least most teams don't evaluate a player on one season. If a team has a RHD who is a defensive stalwart, they might see Del Zotto as a perfect fit for their blue line.
I don't anticipate him being dealt for anything short of a top talent, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find out Sather is listening to offers.
We lack offense, so why move our defensemen with the most offensive potential? Especially one that has shown good production on the PP...which is a major headache for this team.
Potential is just that. If he has one more off year, or fails to make the roster out of camp, he's value drops. The team needs offense from their forwards. And if they sign Richards, they have their PP QB.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vito Andolini
Also, there's no question that we have a strength on defense in general, but my gut tells me that you move players when the league sentiment is positive on them. That's how you get the most value. If we move Del Zotto now after a disappointing year that probably has teams around the league feeling luke-warm on him, how much value can we get back?
Again, his value is higher now than it would be if he has another off year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vito Andolini
I'd think it's much more wise to look into dealing McD. He too is young and was a high draft pick, except he's coming off a year where he took a step forward. Teams around the league have to have taken notice of this. Plus, I think he projects to be more of a defensive dman...which would be dealing from a position of strength within a position of strength.
I'd rather deal Sauer. I don't think he's got more than what he showed this year. McD I think still has room to improve. Love his size and his skating.
There's no rule that says you can only have one designated offensive defensemen. I mean c'mon, Leetch and Zubov?
To me the Erixon trade in no way indicates giving up on Del Zotto.
Totally agree I don't understand the posters giving MDZ the bums rush. The kid has a load of talent, had a great rookie season and is still young...all I've read on TE is he is a good all around dman with a little more offensive upside than the Dmen we ended the season with, that still leaves us with MDZ as the only true PMD/PPQB. And I know people are gonna say BR is the PPQB answer but don't yo think he is better playing the halfboards rather than the point on the PP? Great example on Leetch/Zubov!
While Del Zotto may be perceived as having "low" value around the league by the HF posters, it's highly unlikely the people that matter feel the same way. Teams don't, or at least most teams don't evaluate a player on one season. If a team has a RHD who is a defensive stalwart, they might see Del Zotto as a perfect fit for their blue line.
I don't anticipate him being dealt for anything short of a top talent, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find out Sather is listening to offers.
So if people that "matter" in the NHL are high on him if I may paraphrase you, then why would we give up a guy like that? As I said in another thread there are no untouchables on a team that finished 8th, so if he is part of a package for high end talent then you make the deal Sonny...but again he is still our only true PMD.
While Del Zotto may be perceived as having "low" value around the league by the HF posters, it's highly unlikely the people that matter feel the same way. Teams don't, or at least most teams don't evaluate a player on one season. If a team has a RHD who is a defensive stalwart, they might see Del Zotto as a perfect fit for their blue line.
I don't anticipate him being dealt for anything short of a top talent, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find out Sather is listening to offers.
I'm not down on MDZ as a bust. The potential is there, but I want this team to win the cup again. As Sather stocks up on these other promising D prospects you have to figure someone is getting shopped down the road for the top 6 talent this team lacks.
Rangers dont have any promising elite goal scorers coming down the pipeline. Sather will have to find this talent via trade or free agency to compete against the better teams.
Things can change fast. MDZ could look like Bobby Orr in training camp and it'll be Sauer looking over his shoulder, but right now heading towards draft day if a deal is to be made at the table.... who would you be more "ok" with letting go if it improved the top 6?
I thought one of the highlights of last year was Sauer and McD playing so well. It seemed like a big step for the team. I wouldn't want to break that up... Our D was looking like it could evolve into something really solid and special. Just get them some goals to work with
Totally agree I don't understand the posters giving MDZ the bums rush. The kid has a load of talent, had a great rookie season and is still young...all I've read on TE is he is a good all around dman with a little more offensive upside than the Dmen we ended the season with, that still leaves us with MDZ as the only true PMD/PPQB. And I know people are gonna say BR is the PPQB answer but don't yo think he is better playing the halfboards rather than the point on the PP? Great example on Leetch/Zubov!
Nobody is giving Del Zotto the bum rush. Some are suggesting that you need to give value to get value.
I don't see a Leetch and or a Zubov on this team. Your talking about a legit Hall of Famer and a guy who you could make a case for the Hall.
Don't see what those two have to do with the current situation.
Nobody is giving Del Zotto the bum rush. Some are suggesting that you need to give value to get value.
I don't see a Leetch and or a Zubov on this team. Your talking about a legit Hall of Famer and a guy who you could make a case for the Hall.
Don't see what those two have to do with the current situation.
I think there are quite a few posters who want him traded, I know I've read a bunch of them...and nobody was comparing TE and MDZ to Leetch and Zubov that would be insane...the OP's point about BL and SZ was that you can have more than 1 PMD on a team ala Leetch and Zubov.
Potential is just that. If he has one more off year, or fails to make the roster out of camp, he's value drops. The team needs offense from their forwards. And if they sign Richards, they have their PP QB.
That's the point I'm trying to make. His value drops when he takes a step back...which is what happened last year. Now, whether you think he will continue to flounder or get worse is a different story. If that's how you feel then yes, I understand why you'd want him to be moved more than others. I don't feel that way though. I think he'll improve in all areas, and he'll address some of the weaknesses of our blue line.
And I don't think we only need offense from our forwards. Good teams have threats from the blue line as well.
100% agreed. We're talking about two PPG defenseman when they were Rangers. If DZ becomes half of what they are, he's a success.
The point the OP made wasn't that TE and MDZ are as talented as those two, only that you can have more than one PMD for those calling for MDZ to be traded now that Erixon has been signed.
the difference in value from trading him now vs after another bad season is not enough to abandon his potential
in other words, im more then willing to wager the "extra value" of trading him now on the chance of him reaching his potential
worst case senerio? his already deflated value is lowered and we cant get as much in return....best case senerio? we have a legit puck moving defenseman on our team for many years to come
Potential is just that. If he has one more off year, or fails to make the roster out of camp, he's value drops. The team needs offense from their forwards. And if they sign Richards, they have their PP QB.
I'd rather deal Sauer. I don't think he's got more than what he showed this year. McD I think still has room to improve. Love his size and his skating.
Part of the allure in signing Richards, at least from my point of view, is as a mentor to DZ on the PP. Del Zotto was asked to come in and be the PP QB as a 19 year old with a moping Wade Redden as his only source of veteran advice. Richards on the PP would take the pressure off of DZ, and allow him to grow into the role in 3-4 years.
As for the "extra" defensemen, we need to remember that injuries WILL happen. Staal had a knee problem this season. Girardi is always an injury waiting to happen the way he blocks shots. This might be the first injury-free season of Sauer's whole career. Having some extra talented defensemen on D is a good thing. It means that if players need more development (whether it's DZ, McDonagh, Erixson, or whoever), they can go to the Whale and work it out without the added pressure.
I don't remember that. Also, that's not really all too important in terms of making the team. With the acquisition of Erixon, if you can get a top line LW in a package with Del Zotto going back the other way, as much as I like his game, you have to do it.
If we're saying he's not good enough to crack our top 6, there's little reason to believe he'll be a significant piece of any trade for a top line LW.
If we're saying he's not good enough to crack our top 6, there's little reason to believe he'll be a significant piece of any trade for a top line LW.
Why? Teams trading for him will be looking at his potential and what he did in 09-10, not so much last season. Although that did affect his overall value, obviously.
Tort's played this beautifully. Kid needed an attitude adjustment which no one has been able to perform thus far in his career. Even cutting him from WJC teams didn't do it. This isn't about performance and talent as much as it is about maturity and learning to be a professional. Game days and off days and 24/7, a professional hockey player. Good coaching. Just ask Vinny.
Considering how long it takes for NHL defensemen to develop, he's already ahead of the curve some other "proven" NHL offensive defensemen and he's not even to the four or five year threshold that most of them take to become good at their craft.
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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle
I would actually say that the Rangers as an organization have played the Del Zotto situation very nicely. Starting with the way Tort's handled him during the season and now with acquisition of Erixon.
Del Zotto's main problems, from what I understand, are poor decision making both on and off the ice. A head strong, passionate kid that lacks maturity. Not exactly an uncommon occurrence, but the exact opposite of Tim Erixon. A perfect counter balance IMO.
Acquiring Erixon may not be the eject button for MDZ unless said deal is a total no brainer.....like the Erixon deal.
No D prospect we have matches the offensive potential of MDZ. He needs to managed VERY carefully. The Rangers are doing that.
If he's a good prospect the Erixon deal should motivate the living heck out of him. He should be the most fired up guy in camp w/o exception.
