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Is Mike Richards the Answer to the third line problem?

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Old
06-02-2011, 12:32 PM
  #1
Spongolium*
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Is Mike Richards the Answer to the third line problem?

For a number of years we have been throwing the garbage on Richards to help them produce. We haven't had a third line defensive centre for a long time now. Is it time we change the mentality of the three attacking lines, and use Richards at what he is ultimately best at. Selke level defense.

Getting behind a goaltender such as Vokoun or Bryz, we could actually not have squeaky bum time in the last 5 minutes of every game with two solid defensive lines. This gives more time to the top lines to produce points, which I think hinders our team at times.

If we could somehow ship a player out to nail someone like Clutterbuck or sign Cole, we would finally have a little more of a physical presence in the team once more. (we were owned by Buffalo and Bruins in this department).

Hartnell - Briere - JVR
Carter - Giroux - Versteeg
Nodl/wellwood - Richards - Clutterbuck/Cole
Betts/Rinaldo - Holmstrom/Madden - Powe

Something like this. Anyone have any views

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06-02-2011, 12:35 PM
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In addition to this, we can keep Carter, Giroux and JVR far away from the PK. Leaving the duty to Richards/Betts/Holmstrom/Powe.

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06-02-2011, 12:38 PM
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I understand that Richards did get the "scraps" of the lines from time to time, but he had high scoring partners with him from time to time as well. Gagne was normally paired with him, Carter for a while, even Giroux and JVR spent an ample amount of time on his line through the last two years.

I think Richards is to much of an impact player to relegate him to a 3rd line shutdown role. I think instead if we do attempt to run 3 scoring lines, have them all defensively sound with 2 scoring threats and one strong back-checker.

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06-02-2011, 12:44 PM
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PhillyCurt12
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gagne-richards-thoresen. awesome defensively, dangerous offensively.

a man can dream, can't he?

edit: versteeg could be a winger on that line too should one of my three off-season wish list items does not come true. the third wish is a goalie...

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06-02-2011, 12:49 PM
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Thoreson? Is this some kind of sick joke?

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06-02-2011, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
For a number of years we have been throwing the garbage on Richards to help them produce. We haven't had a third line defensive centre for a long time now. Is it time we change the mentality of the three attacking lines, and use Richards at what he is ultimately best at. Selke level defense.
Those people complaining about a "traditional" third line shut down unit don't understand the point.

Gagne - Richards - xxx

xxx - Richards - Nodl

xxx - Richards - Versteeg

He's been being used a Selke defender chipping in for offense since the moment Jeff Carter broke out.

We need to stop the mentality that we need a traditional third line. We have a traditional third line, one that is used to shut down other team's top lines. That line just happens to be extremely gifted offensively as well.

Just because he doesn't get 5 minutes less per game than the other lines does not mean very much.

Stop trying to turn Richards into Jordan Staal. He will always only ever be Richards, which is far better than being Jordan Staal.

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06-02-2011, 01:07 PM
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Why not just keep the Nodl-Richards-Versteeg line? Seems good enough defensively and offensively to me.

And there is no way Minnesota trades Clutterbuck for less than a big overpayment. Meanwhile, I feel like Cole's going to want around $3 million, which is something we can't really afford if we're going after a Vokoun.

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06-02-2011, 01:15 PM
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Richards is too good to play any less than he is right now.

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06-02-2011, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
I understand that Richards did get the "scraps" of the lines from time to time, but he had high scoring partners with him from time to time as well. Gagne was normally paired with him, Carter for a while, even Giroux and JVR spent an ample amount of time on his line through the last two years.

I think Richards is to much of an impact player to relegate him to a 3rd line shutdown role. I think instead if we do attempt to run 3 scoring lines, have them all defensively sound with 2 scoring threats and one strong back-checker.
I used the term scraps, becuase thats what he was dealing with.

When Gagne was there he was constantly injured and couldn't hit a barn door with his shot. When JVR was there he was going through a huge scoring slump. Carter just didn't click with him. Giroux spent very little time there.

Also Shafer, seriously what are you talking about? The flyers have always tried to play offensivly using three lines. Defense just never seems to happen with our lines. Not since the awesome Lappy - Betts - powe/Carcillo line which was insanely dominant during it's time.

Richards hasn't been looked upon to chip in offensivly, he's been looked at to be a force and contribute heavily.

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06-02-2011, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost of Downie View Post
Why not just keep the Nodl-Richards-Versteeg line? Seems good enough defensively and offensively to me.

And there is no way Minnesota trades Clutterbuck for less than a big overpayment. Meanwhile, I feel like Cole's going to want around $3 million, which is something we can't really afford if we're going after a Vokoun.
I agree. Give Richards - Versteeg a go next season with both of them healthy, and bring Nodl back for his two-way play and the chance that the occasional shot just might carom off him into the opponent's net.

I'd like to have Cole on the Flyers, and Holmgren can toss a cap-friendly offer at him (~$2.5 mil); however, he shouldn't be surprised if he gets outbid nor should he raise the ante.

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06-02-2011, 01:31 PM
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Mike Richards has been the go-to shutdown center for some time now, however veiled by Lavi's system. The fact he has been playing with scraps doesn't help. We just don't really have any other high profile two-way forwards to pair him with.

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06-02-2011, 01:33 PM
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Also: Versteeg is a scrap. Anyone who expects him to be valuable defensively, stop.

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06-02-2011, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by BrimFullofAsham45 View Post
Also: Versteeg is a scrap. Anyone who expects him to be valuable defensively, stop.
He had the 3rd highest QUALCOMP of the Flyers forwards, with the 5th lowest QUALTEAM. And had the 4th highest Corsi of our forwards.

But please, continue to enlighten us on how he's obviously a scrap from his abdomen wall-torn time with us.

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06-02-2011, 01:51 PM
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I'm a stat guy, however...Versteeg is a case for me where my eyes tell me something other than what any numbers might. We are all aware of the brutal turnovers he's capable of when he tries to be too fancy. He also floats a bit in his own end. I can't recall if it was the Boston or Buffalo series, but Versteeg was lauded for making a "great play" in his own end when he poked a pass away from a guy in the slot at the last second. Well, it was entirely his fault it was even that close in the first place. It was a simple 2 on 2, but Versteeg started toward the man with the puck (whom another Flyer already had), he then eventually broke back off and headed towards the slot to make this "great play". He was resonsible for making the routine 2 on 2 extremely dangerous in the first place.

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06-02-2011, 02:02 PM
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All I'm saying is let's give Versteeg more than 38 games with a torn abdomen and a team in a massive slump before we start labeling him as incapable of playing defense and being anything more than a scrap.

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06-02-2011, 02:18 PM
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http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p...0#post33377830

That is my idea of what we do.

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06-02-2011, 02:37 PM
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Laich and Cole are going to make more than that, and I'd be shocked if DC lets him go.

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06-02-2011, 02:38 PM
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No. He's not. Don't wear him down by forcing him into a role where he's put there because they don't feel like building around him. He's got a few years left before he's really only a third line center.

The real solution is sign a real third line center. Not even for Richards, but to get Giroux and Briere where they god damn belong. Why have Richards-Giroux-Briere when you can have a loaded top six and excellent third line with Richards-Carter-3rd line C?

They'd be an absolute nightmare to play against. Awesome at offense, awesome at defense, awesome at draws. And it would put everyone in a more defined role, which I think has been a problem for a couple years. We've tried the three scoring line thing for a few years now...and with Leino likely leaving, that'll leave us one more short. We already couldn't viably fill out three scoring lines last year. No sense in pretending even harder next season.

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06-02-2011, 02:40 PM
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Except you left on the table a raise in the cap from 59.4 (current) to as high as 63.5 (the highest it's rumored to go).

So at worst, you just left 4.00m on the table.

Also, it's highly unlikely that even two of Carter, Carle, and Versteeg are moved, but you have us moving all 3?

Also, if Versteeg is moved, which we've already comes to terms with as something that's probably not going to happen, it's going to be to re-sign Leino.

I also view that 8th overall pick the same as the 15th-16th overall pick. Outside of the top four, possibly all the way to the 20th pick, I don't see much of a fall off.

So we're paying that extra bit to move up to 8th as opposed to something like 15-20? Nah.

Not interested in Filatov either.

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06-02-2011, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick Blaine View Post
No. He's not. Don't wear him down by forcing him into a role where he's put there because they don't feel like building around him. He's got a few years left before he's really only a third line center.

The real solution is sign a real third line center. Not even for Richards, but to get Giroux and Briere where they god damn belong. Why have Richards-Giroux-Briere when you can have a loaded top six and excellent third line with Richards-Carter-3rd line C?

They'd be an absolute nightmare to play against. Awesome at offense, awesome at defense, awesome at draws. And it would put everyone in a more defined role, which I think has been a problem for a couple years. We've tried the three scoring line thing for a few years now...and with Leino likely leaving, that'll leave us one more short. We already couldn't viably fill out three scoring lines last year. No sense in pretending even harder next season.
The nightmare to play against is...

xxx - Carter - xxx
xxx - Giroux - xxx
xxx - Richards - xxx

It has nothing to do with a "loaded" top six and a "traditional" third line.

People need to get this traditional third line nonsense out of their head.

You know what makes us an elite team? Depth. If you want to swallow our depth onto two lines and make us a worse team be my guest, but I'm fairly sure Lavi and Holmgren aren't thinking like that.

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06-02-2011, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
The nightmare to play against is...

xxx - Carter - xxx
xxx - Giroux - xxx
xxx - Richards - xxx

It has nothing to do with a "loaded" top six and a "traditional" third line.

People need to get this traditional third line nonsense out of their head.

You know what makes us an elite team? Depth. If you want to swallow our depth onto two lines and make us a worse team be my guest, but I'm fairly sure Lavi and Holmgren aren't thinking like that.
Maybe you need to get the "traditional" notion out of your head that a real third line kills depth.

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06-02-2011, 03:06 PM
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Thoreson? Is this some kind of sick joke?
people where rose colored glasses when they read these forums (at least with regards to thoresen)

other than that 1 shot block, he sucked.

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06-02-2011, 03:07 PM
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Richards isn't good enough in the face off circle to be a true 3rd line center. I would much rather see JvR-Richards-Giroux and Hartnell-Carter-Briere lines than continue to try to roll three scoring lines

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06-02-2011, 03:11 PM
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agreed, no more 3 scoring lines...

but idk about putting richards on the 3rd line, its something to consider.

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06-02-2011, 04:24 PM
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I do't wanna listen to everyone on ehre complain about him not scoring when he plays a shutdown role.....

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