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could montreal support another NHL Team?

View Poll Results: can the city of montreal support another franchise?
yes 31 31.00%
no 69 69.00%
Voters: 100. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-02-2011, 01:04 PM
  #26
x74Pacioretty74x
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Im not sure about MTL, but i personally would love to see the Nordiques come back the NHL. IMO, that is one of the best rivarlies of all time and the NHL definitly needs more rivalries so that more fans can get excited for more games and not just the games that we play the Bruins. Although im interested as too no matter who we play as i am and always will be a die hard habs fan, I would love to see Quebec get there NHL team back. Honestly, it can only be better for the game to add viewers. +, this would add a lot more sales then lets say a team like Phoenix already does(debt).

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06-02-2011, 01:05 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horton18Horton View Post
Yet they still had to close up shop due to the fact that the city could not support two teams.

Times have also changed, and there are a lot more factors involved besides how many people you can get to show up for your games.
Didn't their arena burn down ? Or was that the Wanderers ?

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06-02-2011, 01:10 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by MJG View Post
The city is not hockey mad. It is Habs mad.
Are you an immigrant, or were you born here from several generations?

Cuz if you're the latter, I'm really surprised you don't know many people who are hockey fans but hate the Habs. I know MANY.

It is hockey mad. Pro hockey was born here, NHL was born here, the island has produced the highest amount of superstars among any city in the world, and some of those players have let go of their link to the Habs, and even the city itself. Same would happen with a lot of fans.

You're a Habs fan, and seem to think everyone is just like you. Get out a bit more.

Like someone else said, call them the Laval/Montreal Patriots or the Laval/Montreal Separatists, and they will surely come, because if there is one thing about Quebecers, is that they are zealous and can easily galvanize around any representation of independance vs establishment, no matter how trivial that representation is. A very old and established icon like the Habs, easily attracts, not only fans, but anti-fans. That target is already big enough to venture a guess that it would be viable.

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06-02-2011, 01:12 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Didn't their arena burn down ? Or was that the Wanderers ?
Don't quote me as it was way before my time. But I believe it was the Habs arena, I think it was called "Jubilee Arena" that burnt down.

Edit: Here's the wikipedia link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jubilee_Arena

It looks like the Wanderers arena burnt down as well.

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Last edited by Habs10Habs: 06-02-2011 at 01:14 PM. Reason: Added link
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Old
06-02-2011, 01:12 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
I agree with you that I think people would show up. I just don't think there would be too many people willing to shell out $200m for a team in a city where you likely wouldn't be able to sell 10 000 season tickets.

The reason why Winnipeg will work with 15k people is because they have a higher ticket price than Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver and Ottawa.

If you have to drop your prices to get people in the building, then you need to sell out everynight or get at least 18k people.

It doesn't make sense from a business perspective imo. I don't think you'd get the STH's to shell out that kind of money for a team that they have no emotional involvement in. Also, you'd have to either play in the Bell Centre and let the Molson's make the money because nobody is going to invest $600m for a team and an arena when you don't have 10 000+ season ticket buyers.

It doesn't work from a financial perspective unless the Habs are allowed to own the team and have them play in their building.
Contrary to popular belief, I think habs will suffer off a new team. Yes, this point is obvious, but you think a casual fan will go on kijiji and spend 2 times face value when he can buy an unsold ticket directly off a new mtl team for less?

Financially, it's def flawed, I don't think a team can come in and surpass the habs that easily. In an ideal situation, they can co-exist but a team would have to manage a significant investment and potential loss in first few years.

There's a waiting list for luxury suites at the bell center. While the majority won't convert, I can easily see some new-age companies rooting for a new team to appeal to a new generation. A lot of it can be twisted for advertising and marketing. Exclusivity agreements, concerts, shows, and so on, can all add to the appeal and familiarity of a new building and team.

People are easy to influence pyschologically. We got people converting to TB lightning fans because they have more french players ffs. Passion is huge, but people talk as if passion has a direction and never wavers. We see it after every loss or win on this board. People talking about how we need this or we need that. So, what if that other team is a french superstar team composed of big physical forwards, they draft canadian, they are successful, they are tough. Do you believe some will not convert over time?

This isn't directed at you but all those who claim us all to be all high and mighty and unphasable. A lot of us are habs fans on the basis of pride, this is MY city, this is MY team. If you ice something people can be proud of, support will come, and if people watch, people will advertise and corporate support will come.

I believe, if properly advertised, a new montreal team can gain a lot of curiousity and quickly. How well they market the team and how well they sell the product on the ice can lead to earning new fans and stealing some from the habs.

However, this idealistic concept won't work, it's just not economically realistic. I'd imagine a northern team, such as Laval may be able to gain a strong showing for an AHL team, possibly an average NHL team on right conditions, but I question the stability of any franchise being placed in a tightrope situation. They're bound to unbalance and fall. There's very little that can be done if the canadian dollar falls on a smaller market team, especially one in proximity to a large iconic team.

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Old
06-02-2011, 01:12 PM
  #31
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No, I don't think it would work

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06-02-2011, 01:14 PM
  #32
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They wouldnt be a rich team but yeah why not, there's teams in the states with 10000 people in the arena and 10000 viewers on TV.

A 2nd team would beat that

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06-02-2011, 01:18 PM
  #33
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There's enough interest in hockey here to support another team (quantity wise) but everyone cheers for the habs so people wouldn't change their loyalties

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06-02-2011, 01:20 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horton18Horton View Post
Yet they still had to close up shop due to the fact that the city could not support two teams.

Times have also changed, and there are a lot more factors involved besides how many people you can get to show up for your games.
But to flat out reject the idea like some people around here are doing, is just based on premate conclusions. If we were talking of either a city with 1 mil or less in population, or an area that is not a typical hockey market, than the actual educated guess would be a no. But an area like Montreal would need a study to reject the idea, because the educated guess would lean either towards normal doubt and positive, not full out doubt.

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06-02-2011, 01:23 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
But to flat out reject the idea like some people around here are doing, is just based on premate conclusions. If we were talking of either a city with 1 mil or less in population, or an area that is not a typical hockey market, than the actual educated guess would be a no. But an area like Montreal would need a study to reject the idea, because the educated guess would lean either towards normal doubt and positive, not full out doubt.
That I'll agree with. Anything is possible if the right people are put in charge of the new franchise. I just think the chances of a 2nd team being successful, not just existing are very slim.

If the idea is to have a bottom tier franchise, absolutely that could be done. If though the idea is to have a franchise that could come close to rivaling the Habs, not a chance in hell IMO.

In my humble opinion, the 2nd team would always be considered on the same level as the Devils, or the Islanders. Always playing second fiddle to the Rangers.

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06-02-2011, 01:35 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horton18Horton View Post
That I'll agree with. Anything is possible if the right people are put in charge of the new franchise. I just think the chances of a 2nd team being successful, not just existing are very slim.

If the idea is to have a bottom tier franchise, absolutely that could be done. If though the idea is to have a franchise that could come close to rivaling the Habs, not a chance in hell IMO.

In my humble opinion, the 2nd team would always be considered on the same level as the Devils, or the Islanders. Always playing second fiddle to the Rangers.
BTW, I know you're a mod and everything dude, but the question in the thread title is "could Montreal support", so I don't know where you got the notion everybody was talking profitibality rather than viability

If the question is profitability and market share, for sure they'll never top the habs, and in turn Habs would somewhat suffer from having a second team in the area, and not jsut economically.

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06-02-2011, 01:35 PM
  #37
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Could? Probably.

Would? Probably not.

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06-02-2011, 01:58 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
BTW, I know you're a mod and everything dude, but the question in the thread title is "could Montreal support", so I don't know where you got the notion everybody was talking profitibality rather than viability

If the question is profitability and market share, for sure they'll never top the habs, and in turn Habs would somewhat suffer from having a second team in the area, and not jsut economically.
Haha you suck.

There are currently many NHL cities that can "support" a team, but how many of them are profitable? Profitability and viability go hand in hand. In this case, I don't see an owner willing to lose money to take a chance on this. Especially when there are so many more viable options to look at first.

So if you want to get technical, yes I think Montreal could support another team. I just can't see anyone stepping up and putting out the money it would take to do it.

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06-02-2011, 02:09 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horton18Horton View Post
Haha you suck.

There are currently many NHL cities that can "support" a team, but how many of them are profitable? Profitability and viability go hand in hand. In this case, I don't see an owner willing to lose money to take a chance on this. Especially when there are so many more viable options to look at first.

So if you want to get technical, yes I think Montreal could support another team. I just can't see anyone stepping up and putting out the money it would take to do it.
But that's just the point, technically, it would be more viable in theory to have another team in Montreal losing 5 mil per year, than having the Yotes losing 25 every year. In the present NHL makeup, another team in Montreal is probably a better venue than some of the financially striken markets in the league, and hence more profitable. But that's all beside the point, as my opinion is just that it is viable... compared to some of the teams that the league presently has. In the purest sense, if that team breaks even, it is not profit, but compared to teams losing money, it becomes more profitable.

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06-02-2011, 02:17 PM
  #40
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The could support another team population-wise...but why put another team in Montreal when everybody is going to cheer for the Habs regardless??

Put another team in Toronto so the people have a 50/50 chance of cheering for a winning team for a change...lol.

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06-02-2011, 02:19 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Leaf Lander View Post
We have all heard rumors that Toronto wants a2nd NHL team because the hockey market is so large but I am thinking couldn't Montreal also handle another team?

so what doyou al lthink yeah or nay?
I don't think so, especially if that team was less successful than the Habs. It would be like the LA Clippers.

Before Montreal gets 2 teams there will be one in Quebec and a 2nd one in Toronto.

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06-02-2011, 02:21 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horton18Horton View Post
I honestly can't see Montreal having the population or the corporate sponsorship to support two teams.
This.

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06-02-2011, 02:25 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
But that's just the point, technically, it would be more viable in theory to have another team in Montreal losing 5 mil per year, than having the Yotes losing 25 every year. In the present NHL makeup, another team in Montreal is probably a better venue than some of the financially striken markets in the league, and hence more profitable. But that's all beside the point, as my opinion is just that it is viable... compared to some of the teams that the league presently has. In the purest sense, if that team breaks even, it is not profit, but compared to teams losing money, it becomes more profitable.
Agreed, but the new owners would still be losing money whether it be five or twenty-five million. The NHL would still have to "prop up" this new franchise (revenue sharing). They may save a little, but they would still have to be paying out.

So in reality, with the scenario you provided, can you really say the city of Montreal would be "supporting" this new team? Or would it be the rich owner, in combination with the NHL that is "supporting" this team?

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06-02-2011, 02:46 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
But that's just the point, technically, it would be more viable in theory to have another team in Montreal losing 5 mil per year, than having the Yotes losing 25 every year.
Who in their right mind would invest $600m for an arena and a team to lose $5m a year? Thats why it would never happen.

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Old
06-02-2011, 03:07 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
Who in their right mind would invest $600m for an arena and a team to lose $5m a year? Thats why it would never happen.
Maybe if they played at the Dollard Civic center over here on the West Island

Only kidding of course.

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06-02-2011, 04:01 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
Who in their right mind would invest $600m for an arena and a team to lose $5m a year? Thats why it would never happen.
This may be exactly why the Habs would allow a second team into the market...$$$$$. The new team would have to use the Bell Centre until a new building was built. The stadium fees would generate money for the Molson's. The transfer/expansion fee to enter the Montreal market would be HUGE (a hell of a lot more than the $60 million Winnipeg paid). This would be a cash cow for the Molson's should they want to exploit it.

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06-02-2011, 05:40 PM
  #47
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No the Habs own the city.

Who the hell would ditch the habs and cheer for a completely new team

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06-02-2011, 06:45 PM
  #48
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1 team for the french:Montreal Canadiens

1 team for the english:Montreal Maroons

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06-02-2011, 06:50 PM
  #49
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I voted yes. I think financially, it can be done. But I wouldn't want another team here. Plus the fact that the Habs are so rooted in with the community here makes me think it may be difficult to get many supporters. They'd probably get enough to fill the seats on games, but the fanbase wouldn't be bi at the start. I think their initial fans would be non-habs fans in Montreal and the so called "Habs fans" who constantly bash on the team. In addition, I doubt the Habs organization would be happy about having to share the territory, income wise, from all the products etc.
I'd think that there's better markets in other places in the province, for now, mostly being Quebec city.

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06-02-2011, 07:25 PM
  #50
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FYI
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=902649

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