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how would rate lacroix's off-season?

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08-21-2005, 04:20 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggmoney71
Why not put the screws to your rival team the Wings and offer Dats and Zetter 4.5 and 3.5 million respectively - you give up several draft picks - but really how many LATE #1 are going to equal those 2 in the next five years? Even in Detroit matches you still screwed them cap wise!! Why teams are not using this more like the NFL I have no idea.
Because avalanche don't want them to raise, etc Liles contract. Every team fears other teams doing that same thing to them..

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08-21-2005, 04:25 PM
  #52
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I'm not trying to get into this again, but I disagree with the people who are saying it would have been a huge risk to buyout Blake, because we still might have lost Foote, or Forsberg. Both of those guys wanted to resign badly. The difference was about $2 M. We could have kept one, with the extra $2 M, and signed a replacement for the other with the extra $4.3 M. Anyways, it's over and done with now, but I disagree that it would have been a gamble. They wanted to return, and all they wanted was a little more money. Blake's contract would have freed that up. Seems like a pretty solid bet to me.

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08-21-2005, 04:39 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118
I'm not trying to get into this again, but I disagree with the people who are saying it would have been a huge risk to buyout Blake, because we still might have lost Foote, or Forsberg. Both of those guys wanted to resign badly. The difference was about $2 M. We could have kept one, with the extra $2 M, and signed a replacement for the other with the extra $4.3 M. Anyways, it's over and done with now, but I disagree that it would have been a gamble. They wanted to return, and all they wanted was a little more money. Blake's contract would have freed that up. Seems like a pretty solid bet to me.
Blake's contract is up at the end of the year and the Avs will have alot more cap space next year to sign better and younger free agents.

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08-21-2005, 05:38 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggmoney71
Why not put the screws to your rival team the Wings and offer Dats and Zetter 4.5 and 3.5 million respectively - you give up several draft picks - but really how many LATE #1 are going to equal those 2 in the next five years? Even in Detroit matches you still screwed them cap wise!! Why teams are not using this more like the NFL I have no idea.
Simply because those 2 players don't deserve that kind of money. Seems quite high for Datsyuk who has proven so far that he is not much of a playoff performer and Zetterberg who has not yet been able to put up significant numbers playing on one of the top 2 lines on a good team. Why should he get more $$ than Tanguay ???

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08-21-2005, 05:45 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hejduk
Blake's contract is up at the end of the year and the Avs will have alot more cap space next year to sign better and younger free agents.
Again, not trying to get into this too much, but better than who? Forsberg, and Foote? Doesn't get much better than that.

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08-21-2005, 05:54 PM
  #56
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finish Him!!!

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08-21-2005, 08:33 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118
Again, not trying to get into this too much, but better than who? Forsberg, and Foote? Doesn't get much better than that.
I agree, so what if next year we have more money to go after other free agents. We had the best right here and chose to toss it away like last nights garbage. I do not see anything wrong with commenting to that effect in a thread rating Pierre Lacroix's performance.

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08-22-2005, 02:26 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by bling
I agree, so what if next year we have more money to go after other free agents. We had the best right here and chose to toss it away like last nights garbage. I do not see anything wrong with commenting to that effect in a thread rating Pierre Lacroix's performance.
They weren't tossed away like garbage. They were offered deals which would allow them to stay under the financail situation which was present, they chose to leave for more money, plain and simple. If either F or F had stayed for their "measley" $1.5M for 1 yeah, you don't think there would be a restructuring with Blake and Sakic at the end of the upcoming season to get salaries better distributed among them?

For what it's worth, I think both F&F are getting overpaid now. Foote is great, but a big, slow, non-scoring D-man isn't worth that money in the post-lockout era about to begin. And for someone with his history of injuries, and potential to be on his final concussion at any second, having that much investing in Frosberg could really screw over the Flyers. I'll take my chances with Blake and Sakic, esp since I think you will see them helping the team financially after this season (especially Sakic).

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08-22-2005, 03:06 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by OUchaser
For what it's worth, I think both F&F are getting overpaid now. Foote is great, but a big, slow, non-scoring D-man isn't worth that money in the post-lockout era about to begin. And for someone with his history of injuries, and potential to be on his final concussion at any second, having that much investing in Frosberg could really screw over the Flyers. I'll take my chances with Blake and Sakic, esp since I think you will see them helping the team financially after this season (especially Sakic).
How in the world do you consider Adam Foote slow?

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08-22-2005, 03:45 AM
  #60
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Gambling

It's like gambling. I mean, we all know that Forsberg can be the difference. The difference of the cup and a failure. IF he stays healthy that is.

Trading away a guy like Forsberg is stupid gambling.

P.L took a huge gambling.

Not to forget, ripping away a big piece of Avalanche heart and soul.

Of course I thought it was the wrong move of P.L. without any doubt.

It was for sure a controversial move. Guys like Sakic and Forsberg should simply be untouchable. They are (were) the heart and soul of Avalanche.

Forsberg will be extremely interesting to follow this year. I know that he didn't enjoy playing hockey in Sweden last year. His team in Sweden Modo didn't leave up to expectations from the fans or from Forsberg himself. Forsberg was also very, very irritated on the referees and the style of hockey being played in Sweden. Both Naslund and Forsberg missed the more "honest and tough" style of hockey in the NHL. Hmmm excuse my poor english here.

So what am I saying. Forsberg missed the NHL, he wants to finish his career likes a winner, he loves the game more than ever and perhaps the team change was good to him also. I have the feeling that he is more motivated than ever. He simply still feels he has something to prove for himself and for the fans.

Except from the risk on new concussions I'm not worried at all of his physical state.

I have other worreis though... I am a little bit worried that the guys in Flyers are not technical enough for Forsberg. I mean, you almost has to be a hockey genious yourself just to understand what Forsberg is doing on the ice.

Placing Forsberg between two powerforwards may be success or a not so good, it's simply to early to say. It's important though that these powerfwards have some speed and smartness.

Big, slower players may have problems following him on the ice, wondering, what the hell is this guy doing (while he is stickhandling and skating in circles all over the ice, looknig for openings and positions). The size and physical play in Flyers will fit him PERFECT, I just hope that their skill level is high enough.

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08-22-2005, 05:16 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OUchaser
For what it's worth, I think both F&F are getting overpaid now. Foote is great, but a big, slow, non-scoring D-man isn't worth that money in the post-lockout era about to begin. And for someone with his history of injuries, and potential to be on his final concussion at any second, having that much investing in Frosberg could really screw over the Flyers. I'll take my chances with Blake and Sakic, esp since I think you will see them helping the team financially after this season (especially Sakic).
Foote may be a bit overpaid, but he is definitly not a slow non scoring D-man. That's Derrian Hatcher,and even he can chip in a few goals. Footer is probably one of the most underrated defensman, in terms of skating, and offense. I have seen him catch many, many players from behind, when they had a breakaway, and it looked like he was out of the play. Plus, he has the best first two steps in the league IMO. It's very, very hard to beat him to the front of the net, from out of the corners. He also scored 8 goals, and 30 points last year, and 11 goals, and 31 points the year before. He is not a purely defensive specialist anymore. He has matured his game very much the last few years, and has become a very good two way defensman.

As for Forsberg, I think about $2 M under the maximum salary, for the best player in the world, is a pretty good deal. He is not Eric Lindros. Nobody knows what kind of shape he will be in if he gets another concusion. People were saying he was one hit away from retirement, before the last one, and were saying he was done after he got it. As long as he is healthy for the playoffs, and he usually is, than he is worth his salary, whatever it is.

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08-22-2005, 12:22 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OUchaser
Foote is great, but a big, slow, non-scoring D-man isn't worth that money in the post-lockout era about to begin.
Slow?

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08-22-2005, 01:15 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
How in the world do you consider Adam Foote slow?
OK, a big non-slow, non-offensive defenseman. The main point of my comment was really about his offensive production more than speed. Don't get me wrong, I wish we still had him, but when it comes back to the Foote vs. Blake debate, I take Blake, hands down.

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08-22-2005, 01:31 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118
Foote may be a bit overpaid, but he is definitly not a slow non scoring D-man. That's Derrian Hatcher,and even he can chip in a few goals. Footer is probably one of the most underrated defensman, in terms of skating, and offense. I have seen him catch many, many players from behind, when they had a breakaway, and it looked like he was out of the play. Plus, he has the best first two steps in the league IMO. It's very, very hard to beat him to the front of the net, from out of the corners. He also scored 8 goals, and 30 points last year, and 11 goals, and 31 points the year before. He is not a purely defensive specialist anymore. He has matured his game very much the last few years, and has become a very good two way defensman.
Well, I am not going to comment on having the fastest first 2 steps in the league, I think that's a pretty silly statement when you look around the league, I wouldn't call him fastest on the Avs.

As for his 30 points, that's good, but really not huge offensive production, and those were his best years, 31 and 30 points. The 31 points was 35th in the league (1 point behind Greg DeVries) and 30 points was 36th in the league. Those are adequate, but not exceptional, especially with the number which were just outlet passes where one of the snipers finished. Again, I like Foote, I wish we had him, but he isn't the offensive defenseman which I think will be more valuable in the new NHL.

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08-22-2005, 01:41 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 21
It's like gambling. I mean, we all know that Forsberg can be the difference. The difference of the cup and a failure. IF he stays healthy that is.

Trading away a guy like Forsberg is stupid gambling.

P.L took a huge gambling.

Not to forget, ripping away a big piece of Avalanche heart and soul.

Of course I thought it was the wrong move of P.L. without any doubt.

It was for sure a controversial move. Guys like Sakic and Forsberg should simply be untouchable. They are (were) the heart and soul of Avalanche.

Forsberg will be extremely interesting to follow this year. I know that he didn't enjoy playing hockey in Sweden last year. His team in Sweden Modo didn't leave up to expectations from the fans or from Forsberg himself. Forsberg was also very, very irritated on the referees and the style of hockey being played in Sweden. Both Naslund and Forsberg missed the more "honest and tough" style of hockey in the NHL. Hmmm excuse my poor english here.

So what am I saying. Forsberg missed the NHL, he wants to finish his career likes a winner, he loves the game more than ever and perhaps the team change was good to him also. I have the feeling that he is more motivated than ever. He simply still feels he has something to prove for himself and for the fans.

Except from the risk on new concussions I'm not worried at all of his physical state.
That sounds like a lot of assumptions to me. I mean, Forsberg missed the NHL? Well, when he was here it seemed he always missed Sweeden. And how he didn't enjoy playing for Modo is beyond me. The team didn't do well, but that was hiw dream he said, to play for the hometown team and for his father. I mean, if you don't enjoy that situation, it's hard to find something that will be more pleasing.

Also, about Sakic and Forsberg being untouchable, that really just wasn't possible for the salary constraints. To keep them, and at least 1 of the big D men would have devastated the economic situation of the team, and potentially cost them the ability to sign young stars like Hejduk and Tanguay, who have many years remaining at a high level.

While losing "heart and soul" is unfortunate, I still think Sakic is the team leader, he was the key piece ahead of Forsberg. Again, while Peter was many peoples favorite player, that isn't a large enough justification to really attack PL's moves. With a closer look at the full situation, finances combined with longer term potential of the team and individuals, I think he did a pretty good job.

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08-22-2005, 11:41 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OUchaser
Well, I am not going to comment on having the fastest first 2 steps in the league, I think that's a pretty silly statement when you look around the league, I wouldn't call him fastest on the Avs.

As for his 30 points, that's good, but really not huge offensive production, and those were his best years, 31 and 30 points. The 31 points was 35th in the league (1 point behind Greg DeVries) and 30 points was 36th in the league. Those are adequate, but not exceptional, especially with the number which were just outlet passes where one of the snipers finished. Again, I like Foote, I wish we had him, but he isn't the offensive defenseman which I think will be more valuable in the new NHL.
Actually the comment about his first two steps is not silly. He is highly regarded in that department. His first two steps are very explosive, and the arguable part, is whether they are the best in the league or not, not whether they are the best on the team. I'm not talking about flat out speed, I'm talking about his first two strides. They are one of the strong points of his game. He may be the fastest from the corners, to the front of the net, and he almost never gets beat to the net from there.

As for the offense, he's by no means in Blake's league, but 11 goals, and then 8 goals is pretty respectable. I don't think calling him a non scoring defensman is very fair. Not arguing whether we should have kept him or not, that's a matter of opinion, but I don't think you assesment of him is very accurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OUchaser
That sounds like a lot of assumptions to me. I mean, Forsberg missed the NHL? Well, when he was here it seemed he always missed Sweeden. And how he didn't enjoy playing for Modo is beyond me. The team didn't do well, but that was hiw dream he said, to play for the hometown team and for his father. I mean, if you don't enjoy that situation, it's hard to find something that will be more pleasing.
He did probably miss Sweeden, and long to play for MoDo again, but he had no idea how much more clutching and grabbing there was over there, and how much less it was called, which is very surprising. Both he and Naslund expressed in interviews how much they disliked playing over there last year, and that they were looking forward to returning to the NHL, especially Forsberg.

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08-23-2005, 02:58 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118
He did probably miss Sweeden, and long to play for MoDo again, but he had no idea how much more clutching and grabbing there was over there, and how much less it was called, which is very surprising. Both he and Naslund expressed in interviews how much they disliked playing over there last year, and that they were looking forward to returning to the NHL, especially Forsberg.
Grass is greener?

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08-23-2005, 03:30 AM
  #68
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Exactly

Foppa2118 is correct in his last reply.

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