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What would Wolski cost LA?

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Old
06-03-2011, 11:48 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by hightide85 View Post
I'm with you, man. The return won't be worth the loss of talent. I'd really like to keep him. We are short enough on skill as it is. Especially, as you mentioned, at LW.

I really don't get why people are so quick to want him gone..
There are only 6 top 6 spots. You better feel good about who occupies them. Wolski has skill, but also big holes. He's an expensive Christensen, who btw, I would like gone for the same reason - he's not going to play in the bottom 6. Neither have anything to offer if they're not prolifically play-making and scoring. MZA will go through the same test over the next year.

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06-03-2011, 04:15 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by xxxZENxxx View Post
This is my interpretation of Wolski as a Ranger. He is acquired and plays pretty well for a couple weeks... putting up some decent point totals, but still inconsistent on offense (like everyone else on the team). Then the injuries pile up and he is playing big minutes with Step and Zuc. That line pretty much carries the offense for several weeks, though WW still seems to get little credit from Ranger fans. Then all of sudden all the injured top line players return and Step's line has a major decrease in minutes. Since WW (and Zuc for that matter) is not the type of player that can produce with so little ice time, he starts to struggle. Not to mention that he is playing with 2 rookies who are pretty much hitting the wall at this point. Add to this that he is not used in any other situations (PP/PK) and the fact that he is not as strong defensively as the rest of players (which Torts doesn't like) and the kid is getting peanuts in terms of minutes. Though there are random good games when he gets promoted to higher lines, he struggles the rest of the season getting little minutes and even sits a few games. So basically you have a player who needs ice time to use his skills, but isn't getting any.

To be honest, there is something about this game that rubs me the wrong way a little, but he gets way too much flack than he should based on what happened this year. He is very talented and I think letting him go would be a mistake. A team like LA would be getting a steal if they only gave up a 2nd or less for him.
Talent doesn't translate in the NHL unless you give more than 100%. Wolski floats too much and is out of position in all three zones. He could be a 30-30 guy if he gave the effort on a consistent basis. It's not Torts, cause Wolski had the same issue in PHX and COL.

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06-03-2011, 04:28 PM
  #53
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Wolski also hasn't been in a Torts camp yet so they can definitely get him training hard over the summer. One positive note is that he is in his contract year. He needs to get top 6 minutes to succeed. Given that we have Dubinsky-Anisimov-Callahan as our 2nd line, that leaves Wolski-(Richards)-Gaborik. Getting top ice time with those two will give Wolski a career year IMO but I don't expect or trust Torts to give Wolski that chance, at least not for the entire season. Or even the majority.

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06-03-2011, 04:50 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by BlueCollarBlueBlood View Post
This the the prob with Wolski as pertaining to NYR.

The kid has Nedved syndrome. A guy who needs top minutes to produce 2nd line numbers but cant produce 2nd line numbers when given 2nd line minutes. In other words a great player for a non contending team that lacks the money to afford elite talent, but not a guy that a true contender can win with.

I have followed Wolski for 2 seasons prior to him coming to NYR. I scouted him as best I could in Colorado becasue I relied on him for my fantasy team as it was my first year and we auto drafted and I got poor picks. The consencus with Avs fans was that he could not produce consistantly with Stastny which says alot, but also they were losing games with him on the 2nd line which eventually got him demoted to the 3rd line. Pretty much the same thing happened in PHX as well. Now you see it first hand with us but yet people keep trying to justify and excuse the results.

Not trying to be a d1ck just using what you said in the bolded statement to show my point that he is not what this team needs and would be better off traded for something before his value diminishes further.
Agree with the sentiment here... He does not strike me as a player who's suddenly going to "get it" and learn how to bring his A-Game consistently. I view it as a major red flag that 2 teams have decided it was in their best interest to part ways with such a young player. I believe his 60 point season was an aberration and not the standard in terms of what can be expected from him production wise.

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06-03-2011, 04:59 PM
  #55
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I'll give you Wolski for an autographed puck signed by Doughty and Kopitar.

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Old
06-03-2011, 05:02 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Plains Batman View Post
Based on CapGeek probably the only two people LA would want to even think about trading is Willie Mitchell which could be an interesting proposition and Justin Williams who is singed long term.
Not a good match.
I could see Willie Mitchell, although I don't know if the Rangers want to go for him considering he signed with the Kings beacuse he wanted to stay ont he west coast.

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06-03-2011, 05:03 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by BPD View Post
What is this idea that the rangers need to shed salary?

We've got approximately 20 million in space, ffs!
we're going to need it during the summer when Redden's contract counts against us and if and when we go after Richards.

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06-03-2011, 05:04 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
ill take a 2nd for wolski. Although im torn with who i would rather buy out being Wolski or Drury ..

Drurys buyout we end up having to pay 3m then 2m.. but atleast we rid ourselves of a useless player and gain 3m in capspace.. Plus we get to keep wolski and try him on the wing with gaborik and whatever center we acquire..

Wolski buyout.. id rather trade him for draft picks honestly. rid ourselves of close to 4m this year.. then at the end of the year we get the FULL 7m off the books for good.. But thing is i think with Gaborik and hopefully Richards, he would be a 50-60pt player
just buy them both out, sign Gagne to 1 yr./2.8 mil to play LW with Richards and Gaborik, second line is Dubi-Stepan-Cally and call it a day.

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06-03-2011, 05:10 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Thats an underpayment on LA's part

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06-03-2011, 05:12 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
we're going to need it during the summer when Redden's contract counts against us and if and when we go after Richards.
I don't really think Redden's contract comes into play at all anymore... Cap bumps up 10% during the summer. Redden's hit is $6.5 mil... With the cap rising close to $64 mil (expected), his cap hit is all but taken care of with the summer cap bump. Probably $100-$200K or so affects us but the Rangers will have plenty of room to operate.

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06-03-2011, 06:54 PM
  #61
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After reading some of these comments i'm convinced fans here hate anyone who wasn't a NYR draft pick. The fact that he has produced more in his young career than half the RFA's we claim are so much better than him but we will dump him for a bag of pucks.

We just went through a season where we paid a guy 7 million for 1 goal and Wolski cap hit is a concern? Out of the sad history of overpaying players on this franchise and Wolski draws all this for making just over 3 mill.

As far as salary vs production Wolski is not a big issue.
Drury 1 goal 7 million
Redden 6 million to play in HDF
Avery 3 million for 3 goals (atleast we are keeping the 1mil/goal payment here)
Gilroy made over 2 million to be our 7th Dman.

Most posters here believe Dubinsky will get between 3-4 million. How is he worth 4 and Wolski isn't close to being worth 3? Gonna say Wolski isn't consistent? Dubinsky isn't consistent either. So for you cap cutters out there try to focus your energy towards players who are a hinder to our cap, which Wolski is not.

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06-03-2011, 06:58 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
just buy them both out, sign Gagne to 1 yr./2.8 mil to play LW with Richards and Gaborik, second line is Dubi-Stepan-Cally and call it a day.
What is this? Hold on here

Buy out Wolski who put up 35 pts in one of his worst season as a pro at the age of 26 so we can sign Simone Gagne who put up 40 points and is 31 and playing on a great team? Wolski makes just over what your willing to pay Gagne. What is that point of that?

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Old
06-03-2011, 07:08 PM
  #63
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I'd prefer a draft pick, 2nd or 3rd round. I just don't want any big salary coming back.

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06-03-2011, 08:20 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
After reading some of these comments i'm convinced fans here hate anyone who wasn't a NYR draft pick. The fact that he has produced more in his young career than half the RFA's we claim are so much better than him but we will dump him for a bag of pucks.
What about Dan Girardi and Ryan McDonagh? I think fans start to sour on players who are not only inconsistent, but play the game with little intensity/heart/emotion. (I.E. Marcel Hossa, Enver Lisin, Nik Zherdev). If a forward is struggling to produce offense, but he's busting his butt out on the ice, back-checking hard, or playing strong defensively (or at least trying to), it's much easier for fans to tolerate the lack of offensive production, because they see contributions in other areas or at least no lack of effort level from the player. But when you have some of these players who struggle offensively, and provide little else in other areas of the ice and often look like they're coasting out there, it's fairly easy to lose patience with them. There is in fact a reason why the Avs and Yotes decided to move this guy, so it's not as if fans scrutiny of Wolski is completely unfounded here.

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06-03-2011, 08:24 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
What about Dan Girardi and Ryan McDonagh? I think fans start to sour on players who are not only inconsistent, but play the game with little intensity/heart/emotion. (I.E. Marcel Hossa, Enver Lisin, Nik Zherdev). If a forward is struggling to produce offense, but he's busting his butt out on the ice, back-checking hard, or playing strong defensively (or at least trying to), it's much easier for fans to tolerate the lack of offensive production, because they see contributions in other areas or at least no lack of effort level from the player. But when you have some of these players who struggle offensively, and provide little else in other areas of the ice and often look like they're coasting out there, it's fairly easy to lose patience with them.
He played 37 games here. Thats less than half a season. I think even a pro scout would want more time to watch him before making a call like posters on here are.

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06-03-2011, 08:26 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
He played 37 games here. Thats less than half a season. I think even a pro scout would want more time to watch him before making a call like posters on here are.
But it's not his first 37 games in the league. People are familiar with him from his time with the Avs & Coyotes, and the same issues that warranted criticism from Ranger fans were present during his time with those teams. A lot easier for fans to justify being patient with an inconsistent RFA like Anisimov who has just 2 seasons under his belt as opposed to a RFA like Wolski who has 5. Wolski will play for us next year, no doubt. But if you asked me to bet on whether he would have a resurgent year next year, I'm not so sure I would put any money on that. Don't you agree that if he was a strong penalty killer and more talented defensively, that fans would be more patient with him and give him more benefit of the doubt? I think so, but that's not the case.

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06-03-2011, 08:34 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
But it's not his first 37 games in the league. People are familiar with him from his time with the Avs & Coyotes, and the same issues that warranted criticism from Ranger fans were present during his time with those teams. A lot easier for fans to justify being patient with a RFA like Anisimov who has 2 seasons under his belt as opposed to a RFA like Wolski who has 5. Wolski will play for us next year, no doubt. But if you asked me to bet on whether he would have a resurgent year next year, I'm not so sure I would put any money on that.
The guy is a season removed from 65 points with those two teams. Thats a bad thing? And for a guy who doesn't play away from the puck he is a career + player. Strange.....

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06-03-2011, 08:42 PM
  #68
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The guy is a season removed from 65 points with those two teams. Thats a bad thing?
What does 1 year really account for? Prucha scored 30 goals in 1 year, and he's no longer in the NHL.... Cheechoo potted 56 goals five years ago, he's now playing in the AHL. You don't ask yourself why the Avs and Yotes wanted to trade Wolski? Does that not cause some concern? What about the Blue Jackets trading Zherdev after his 25+ goal and 60+ point season? Why did they do that? Were the Rangers jumping at the chance to re-up Zherdev when his contract was expiring? Do you think Philly is offering him another contract this summer? There's a whole lot more to a player's game than the final tally in the point column at the end of the season.

Quote:
And for a guy who doesn't play away from the puck he is a career + player. Strange.....
Pretty difficult to read much into +/- without context, isn't it? Marek Malik was +67 combined over 2 1/2 seasons with the Rangers, I guess he was excellent defensively? Strange.

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06-03-2011, 08:45 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by BKBlackRanger View Post
Talent doesn't translate in the NHL unless you give more than 100%. Wolski floats too much and is out of position in all three zones. He could be a 30-30 guy if he gave the effort on a consistent basis. It's not Torts, cause Wolski had the same issue in PHX and COL.
I know Phx gave up on him (because of the coach), but I was under the impression that Col really wanted Meuller and Wolski was what had to go the other way in order for the deal to occur. Maybe I am wrong.

BTW- I agree that he floats at times, but there are a lot of offensive enigmas who made a living out of doing that. I think Pavel Bure was one of the greatest floaters of all time. He didn't play one wink of D... ever.

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06-03-2011, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
What does 1 year really account for? Prucha scored 30 goals in 1 year, and he's no longer in the NHL.... Cheechoo potted 56 goals five years ago, he's now playing in the AHL. You don't ask yourself why the Avs and Yotes wanted to trade Wolski? Does that not cause some concern? What about the Blue Jackets trading Zherdev after his 25+ goal and 60+ point season? Were the Rangers jumping at the chance to re-up Zherdev when his contract was expiring? Do you think Philly is offering him another contract? There's a whole lot more to a player's game than the final tally in the point column at the end of the season.



Pretty difficult to read much into +/- without context, isn't it? Marek Malik was +67 combined over 2 1/2 seasons with the Rangers, I guess he was excellent defensively? Strange.
So Wolfgaze, your telling me you think the Rangers have no room for a player like Wolski? You think this team is in the position to tell a player like him to take a hike after half a season? Bottom line is he has shown the ability to produce on two NHL teams now, he is the same age as the core we are trying to grow and possibly one of the most talented of the group. We got him for an aging defender and only has one more season on his deal. Whats wrong with this?

Why does everyone think Wolski is going to destroy the NYR? Everyone was willing to give Frolov an 82 game chance to see what he could do in NYR Blue, why can't we do the same for Wolski who to me showed more talent than Frolov. Is Prospal really a better option than Wolski? Whats up with wanting to get rid of this guy at any cost.

Thats whats getting at me, this sudden need to just dump him.

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06-03-2011, 08:50 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by xxxZENxxx View Post
I know Phx gave up on him (because of the coach), but I was under the impression that Col really wanted Meuller and Wolski was what had to go the other way in order for the deal to occur. Maybe I am wrong.

BTW- I agree that he floats at times, but there are a lot of offensive enigmas who made a living out of doing that. I think Pavel Bure was one of the greatest floaters of all time. He didn't play one wink of D... ever.
Thank you. Oh they musta traded him for a reason, yeah they wanted the player they were getting back more, which was Meuller. I think the Rangers were in on that as well or atleast rumored to be.

What is this thinking that if a player gets traded he then equals crap? He wasn't dumped for FCs or late picks like our fans are ready to do.

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06-03-2011, 08:52 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
So Wolfgaze, your telling me you think the Rangers have no room for a player like Wolski? You think this team is in the position to tell a player like him to take a hike after half a season? Bottom line is he has shown the ability to produce on two NHL teams now, he is the same age as the core we are trying to grow and possibly one of the most talented of the group. We got him for an aging defender and only has one more season on his deal. Whats wrong with this?

Why does everyone think Wolski is going to destroy the NYR? Everyone was willing to give Frolov an 82 game chance to see what he could do in NYR Blue, why can't we do the same for Wolski who to me showed more talent than Frolov. Is Prospal really a better option than Wolski? Whats up with wanting to get rid of this guy at any cost.

Thats whats getting at me, this sudden need to just dump him.
You're not reading my posts in their entirety. I said quote "Wolski will play for us next season" just 2 posts above... I've even said in previous discussions I have no issue with him on the team next year. I'm not advocating buying him out. There's no reason to buy him out because there is no one else to spend the cap space on, and we can utilize the added offensive depth for one more year. However I would be willing to trade him if a decent offer came along. I was just trying to explain to you why the criticism of his game is warranted. He's got holes in his game and that's why he's been moved around the league. If he doesn't address his consistency issues, he's going to find himself on his 4th team in 6 years come the 2012/2013 season.

All that being said, I'm not optimistic with what I've seen, that he'll be a Ranger beyond next season.

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06-03-2011, 08:57 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
You're not reading my posts in their entirety. I said quote "Wolski will play for us next season" just 2 posts above... I've even said in previous discussions I have no issue with him on the team next year. I'm not advocating buying him out. There's no reason to buy him out because there is no one else to spend the cap space on, and we can utilize the added offensive depth for one more year. However I would be willing to trade him if a decent offer came along. I was just trying to explain to you why the criticism of his game is warranted. He's got holes in his game and that's why he's been moved around the league. If he doesn't address his consistency issues, he's going to find himself on his 4th team in 6 years come the 2012/2013 season.

All that being said, I'm not optimistic with what I've seen, that he'll be a Ranger beyond next season.
Fair enough. Would you change your mind if he could repeat his 65 point season in NY?

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06-03-2011, 09:01 PM
  #74
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Thank you. Oh they musta traded him for a reason, yeah they wanted the player they were getting back more, which was Meuller. I think the Rangers were in on that as well or atleast rumored to be.

What is this thinking that if a player gets traded he then equals crap? He wasn't dumped for FCs or late picks like our fans are ready to do.
Wolski did 47 points in 62 games prior to be traded by the Avs and you're saying they traded him because they wanted the struggling Peter Mueller (4 goals and 17 points in 54 games) more? I believe that was a contract year for Wolski and they felt he would get too much if they took him to arbitration. If the Avs liked Wolski's game, don't you think they would have retained him instead of trading for a struggling rookie? I never implied WOlski's game was 'crap' in the least bit. I said he's got holes in his game and consistency issues.

Did the Blue Jackets not trade Zherdev in a similar fashion? Why did Columbus move him after a 60 point season? Ranger fans tried to justify the move by saying Hitchcock just didn't like the player, but after a season with us, we realized what issues there were with his game that might have caused a coach and organization to sour on the player. After seeing Zherdev's stint with Philly, it turns out those concerns were not unfounded.

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Fair enough. Would you change your mind if he could repeat his 65 point season in NY?
Yes but only if it was a consistent effort through most of the season and he had a good showing in the playoffs... If he did 45 points through the first half of the season, and then just 20 points through the second half, I'd have continued concerns about consistency issues and the issues of not really knowing what you're gong to get out of him during any given stretch of hockey..


Last edited by wolfgaze: 06-03-2011 at 09:07 PM.
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06-03-2011, 09:01 PM
  #75
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What I meant in my earlier post on page 1 is that the Rangers don't have this super deal or in a position of strength with Wolski at all. He has talent and seems like a swell fellow but he's inconsistent and for that price tag won't fetch anything of significant value. If they're lucky they'll get another 4th rounder. LA doesn't need him and is not giving up a Loktionov or anyone who is young, cheap, and has upside.

There are 4 cases with Wolski from most likely to least likely;
1) Bought out
2)Traded at the draft for an equally hefty contract or later pick.
3)Plays out the year and hits his usual numbers
4)Plays well enough to be traded at the deadline either for picks or as part of a package.

Unless he pulls a 180 there's no way he's back after next season. I like him, but he's just another decent secondary finesse scorer who gets moved around a lot and will have a couple of big playoff years in his career.

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