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Hal Gill back, 1 year @ 2.25

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Old
06-04-2011, 12:55 PM
  #501
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
I can see us going with 7 dman.

There is nothing wrong with letting Weber sit the odd game in the press box, same thing with Yemelin, he's just adjusting. Weber only played 41 games last year. There would be nothing wrong with Yemelin starting only 40 games this year imo and bringing him in slowly. Its better off that rushing him then it not working out and him bolting back to the KHL. As long as he's with the big club getting an NHL salary and playing at least half the games, it'll be very similar to how many games he's played in the KHL. A good way to transition to the NHL imo.

Plus giving Spacek and Gill the odd game off here and there to recouperate / rest up won't hurt them in the long run either. Plus we are bound to have injuries here and there so keeping 8 dman with the team is ideal imo. You want that dman in the press box imo instead of having to trade a 2nd rounder like we did for Wiz and the two other assets we traded to get Sopel and Mara.
I honestly believe the Habs are going to rotate Weber-Emelin on the 6th spot for the beginning of the season. Weber will likely get the quicker more agile teams and Emelin see the tougher physical opposition. They'll probably continue to do so until one establishes themselves as a concrete player. And like you said, if they both play well you can opt to sit out Spacek or Gill for rest, and of course there is bound to be bumps in the road where a player will get sick or sore and will miss a game here and there.

This of course is going to hinge on Wisniewski not coming back, because if he does Weber and Emelin will be 7th and 8th respectively.

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06-04-2011, 12:55 PM
  #502
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Poor Gorges, underrated by his own team's fans. I think you undevalue his defensive game. He's probably the Habs' best defensive D. Markov-Gorges is a pairing as strong as there is in the East.

Yemelin's been said to be an "above average second-pairing D-man" by Corey Pronman and a "#3 NHL D-man" by Pierre McGuire. Slotting him as a potential #4, at least by mid-season, doesn't strike me as being a wild reach, especially with Subban as a partner. But if it makes you feel better, use Gill or Spacek with Subban and you have an excellent second pairing still (Gill-Subban was the Habs' first pair for much of the year).

What I listed would be one of the strongest blueline units in the East, if not the strongest. Its second pair could be the first pair on an average club, and the Habs' third pair could serve as a the second pair.

i have no problem with Gorges being in the top 4 at all....but Yemelin is far from a sure shot from being able to play 18-20 in the NHL, I really think he could be in the top 4 at the end of next year ...but well see
but having Gill in the our top 4 is not enought to be the strongest blueline in the east, not even close!

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06-04-2011, 01:07 PM
  #503
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
I can see us going with 7 dman.
Yes, but with the Wiz and Markov, we'd end up with 8.

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06-04-2011, 01:09 PM
  #504
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Originally Posted by Monaco88 View Post
i have no problem with Gorges being in the top 4 at all....but Yemelin is far from a sure shot from being able to play 18-20 in the NHL, I really think he could be in the top 4 at the end of next year ...but well see
but having Gill in the our top 4 is not enought to be the strongest blueline in the east, not even close!
I think you need to look around to see what other clubs in the East use in their top-4.

Considering the strength of the Habs' top-end (Markov and Subban), having Gill or Spacek in the top-4 wouldn't knock them down from the very top tier of the conference. Remember, Subban-Gill made for a pretty good first pairing as it is.

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06-04-2011, 01:36 PM
  #505
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
I think you need to look around to see what other clubs in the East use in their top-4.

Considering the strength of the Habs' top-end (Markov and Subban), having Gill or Spacek in the top-4 wouldn't knock them down from the very top tier of the conference. Remember, Subban-Gill made for a pretty good first pairing as it is.

Lets see some of them....

Pittsburgh Orpik--Letang Michalek--Martin
Wash Schultz--Green Alzner--Carlson
Flyers Carle--Pronger Timonen--Coburn
Bos Chara--Seidenberg Kaberle-Boychuk
Rangers Staal-Girardi McDonagh--Sauer


We know that were not in the top 3 in the east with Markov-Gorges and Gill-Subban
but maybe top5

Pens-Flyers-Boston are ahead

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06-04-2011, 01:48 PM
  #506
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Originally Posted by Monaco88 View Post
Lets see some of them....

Pittsburgh Orpik--Letang Michalek--Martin
Wash Schultz--Green Alzner--Carlson
Flyers Carle--Pronger Timonen--Coburn
Bos Chara--Seidenberg Kaberle-Boychuk
Rangers Staal-Girardi McDonagh--Sauer


We know that were not in the top 3 in the east with Markov-Gorges and Gill-Subban
but maybe top5

Pens-Flyers-Boston are ahead
Boston's defense is horrible, have you been watching the playoffs?

It's all about an ultra tight defensive system and Tim Thomas stealing the show every win for them. Chara is great, Seidenberg is pretty good (but nothing exceptional), and after that it's garbage.

Still I agree that ideally, Spacek and Gill aren't in our top 4. You win regularly with a good goalie, and a strong deep D.

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06-04-2011, 02:01 PM
  #507
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Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
Important to note is that if Spacek is going to play, it's absolutely crucial he plays the left side. He's been effective in his Habs tenure on the left side, it's also important he gets paired with a mobile partner kind of like Gill.
At first I thought you were calling Gill "mobile". Then I re-read it.

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06-04-2011, 02:15 PM
  #508
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Boston's defense is horrible, have you been watching the playoffs?

It's all about an ultra tight defensive system and Tim Thomas stealing the show every win for them. Chara is great, Seidenberg is pretty good (but nothing exceptional), and after that it's garbage.

Still I agree that ideally, Spacek and Gill aren't in our top 4. You win regularly with a good goalie, and a strong deep D.

Really Boston suck defensively?

They are still in the SC finals and that horrible defense as u said finish First or Second in the last 3 seasons in the NHL for goal against...With the Wiz Mtl top6 D is better than Boston but without him ill give Boston the edge

i think Mtl are 4-5 in the east right now and with Wisniewski in the lineup we are even with Pittsburgh and Flyers for top 3 in the East

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06-04-2011, 02:27 PM
  #509
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Originally Posted by Monaco88 View Post
Really Boston suck defensively?
Did I say that ?

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They are still in the SC finals and that horrible defense as u said finish First or Second in the last 3 seasons in the NHL for goal against...With the Wiz Mtl top6 D is better than Boston but without him ill give Boston the edge
You seem to make the common mistake of equating a team's overall ability to prevent goals with the quality of the defensemen when team defense is a function of goaltending, quality of your dmen, forward defensive responsability and team system. The bruins don't have a great D, but they do have defensively responsible forwards, GREAT goaltending and an ultra conservative D system.

The defense itself is not great by any means.

Pittsburgh's defense is pretty damn good. The flyers D is pretty damn good. Vancouver's D is pretty damn good.

Hell, tampa when fully health had Kubina, Hedman, Ohlund, Brewer as a top 4, and I'd say that overall, I feel more confident with their top 4 than Boston's despite Chara being better than any of them.

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06-04-2011, 02:30 PM
  #510
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Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
I honestly believe the Habs are going to rotate Weber-Emelin on the 6th spot for the beginning of the season. Weber will likely get the quicker more agile teams and Emelin see the tougher physical opposition. They'll probably continue to do so until one establishes themselves as a concrete player. And like you said, if they both play well you can opt to sit out Spacek or Gill for rest, and of course there is bound to be bumps in the road where a player will get sick or sore and will miss a game here and there.

This of course is going to hinge on Wisniewski not coming back, because if he does Weber and Emelin will be 7th and 8th respectively.
How come most people here place Weber ahead of Diaz?

Weber wasn't even invited to the recent World Championships, and he was also a healthy scratch for Swiss during the last Olympics. Diaz on the other hand played in both tournaments. In fact Diaz played well enough to earn a contract by the Habs, Weber on the other hand was below Stopel and Mara on the D depth chart last year on the Habs.

I think Weber will be trade bait at the upcoming draft.

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06-04-2011, 02:33 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by dcal64 View Post
How come most people here place Weber ahead of Diaz?

Weber wasn't even invited to the recent World Championships, and he was also a healthy scratch for Swiss during the last Olympics. Diaz on the other hand played in both tournaments. In fact Diaz played well enough to earn a contract by the Habs, Weber on the other hand was below Stopel and Mara on the D depth chart last year on the Habs.

I think Weber will be trade bait at the upcoming draft.
Weber hasn't looked as good as he could have with a different coach. Martin does not believe in young players. He just doesn't.

Weber played amazing in the playoffs and scored 2 clutch goals but barely got to play, and only got to play because of injuries.

So wish we had Boucher here instead of Martin sigh...

Besides, do you know for a fact that Weber wasn't invited ? Is it possible he simply declined ?

Anyway, that still doesn't even mean anything. The swiss brass might just have made a mistake. I'd be psyched if Diaz was better, but I was under the impression he was AHL bound under all likelihood.

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06-04-2011, 02:46 PM
  #512
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Weber hasn't looked as good as he could have with a different coach. Martin does not believe in young players. He just doesn't.
oh really? the habs had more rookies in their roster than any other playoff team. subban, eller, desharnais, weber and white. there was pacioretty as well. he is not rookie anymore, but he is still very young.

on the other hand, tampa had zero rookies playing in the playoffs.

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06-04-2011, 02:47 PM
  #513
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Did I say that ?



You seem to make the common mistake of equating a team's overall ability to prevent goals with the quality of the defensemen when team defense is a function of goaltending, quality of your dmen, forward defensive responsability and team system. The bruins don't have a great D, but they do have defensively responsible forwards, GREAT goaltending and an ultra conservative D system.

The defense itself is not great by any means.

Pittsburgh's defense is pretty damn good. The flyers D is pretty damn good. Vancouver's D is pretty damn good.

Hell, tampa when fully health had Kubina, Hedman, Ohlund, Brewer as a top 4, and I'd say that overall, I feel more confident with their top 4 than Boston's despite Chara being better than any of them.


Agree with u that they have a very good defensive system and some great defensive forward + Thomas but i think this defense is very good defensively and underated

not much offenfive talent on the blueline other the Chara and Kaberle on the Bruins but defensively they are very strong and tough to beat down low add to that that Chara playing half game most of the time

I would take Boston Defence before TB mostly because of Chara and the fact that Kubina and Ohlund are getting old even if Brewer and Hedman are great. But i might be wrong...

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06-04-2011, 02:50 PM
  #514
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How come most people here place Weber ahead of Diaz?

Weber wasn't even invited to the recent World Championships, and he was also a healthy scratch for Swiss during the last Olympics. Diaz on the other hand played in both tournaments. In fact Diaz played well enough to earn a contract by the Habs, Weber on the other hand was below Stopel and Mara on the D depth chart last year on the Habs.

I think Weber will be trade bait at the upcoming draft.
The reason Weber didn't play had nothing to do with him not being good enough, it had to do with Martin's love for experienced players. Facts are Spacek and Weber made a fine 3rd pairing for the stretch they we're paired up together. As for Diaz, I really can't comment as to what level he is at, but one thing I know for sure is that Weber has some NHL experience under his belt where as Diaz does not. That is a factor in a lot of people putting him ahead of Diaz right now. I have more faith in Weber based on what he's accomplished in Canadian Major Junior, and the AHL playing against other potential NHLers. What a player has accomplished in some European league is of little interest to me, the vast majority of them dominate over there and come over and do little, some flourish, but most don't. I'll wait until I see him on NHL ice playing against NHL players before I comment.

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06-04-2011, 02:55 PM
  #515
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oh really? the habs had more rookies in their roster than any other playoff team. subban, eller, desharnais, weber and white. there was pacioretty as well. he is not rookie anymore, but he is still very young.

on the other hand, tampa had zero rookies playing in the playoffs.
A player being in the line up does not mean the coach has confidence in him.

O'byrne was the line up the past 2 seasons until he got traded and Martin never had any confidence in him.

What I mean by that is that all young players have reduced roles. 3rd, 4th line, 3rd pairing type roles while being benched entire periods at time, and playing sub 12 min/game. It's the same thing Julien is doing with Seguin. At least Julien can have the benefit of the doubt since Seguin is 18 and they're in the finals.

Also, name me the rookies that were ready to play in the NHL on tampa's side ?

If you want to see how Boucher treats his young players just look at Hedman.

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06-04-2011, 02:57 PM
  #516
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Originally Posted by dcal64 View Post
How come most people here place Weber ahead of Diaz?

Weber wasn't even invited to the recent World Championships, and he was also a healthy scratch for Swiss during the last Olympics. Diaz on the other hand played in both tournaments. In fact Diaz played well enough to earn a contract by the Habs, Weber on the other hand was below Stopel and Mara on the D depth chart last year on the Habs.

I think Weber will be trade bait at the upcoming draft.
Habs arent playing @ the Olympics...

Diaz hat yet to play a single NHL game...



maybe that's why...

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06-04-2011, 03:00 PM
  #517
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
Yemelin and Weber will be the ones bumped. Which there is nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with slowly giving them ice time against the weaker opposition.

Spacek played over 3m / game more than Weber last year, JM is a vet coach and Spacek will continue to get ice time over Weber until Weber and Yemelin play so well that they are forced to be given more ice time.

Realistic if Wiz was resigned our top six would be something like

Markov Gorges
Subban Gill
Wiz Spacek

Weber / Yemelin.
That's pretty much what I would like. But what I would like the most is Hamrlik over Spacek. He has a no trade clause and a 3.9 million salary So, he's gonna be there next September.

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06-04-2011, 03:35 PM
  #518
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Pens-Flyers-Boston are ahead
Err no. Especially not Boston, where is that crap from anyway? Boston is not going to retain Kaberle (who has been terribad for them anyhow) and Boychuk was playing forward for the 29th team in the league because he's that bad a D-man. Boychuk has been exposed like crazy by Tampa and Vancouver. Boston's D is actually very shallow, I have no idea how they got so overrated, probably the same logic that had Toronto in the top 5 at the beginning of last year. But it's a pretty weak unit. 2nd most shots against in the league. They really miss Wideman.

You can maybe make a case for the other two, but having the one-two punch of Markov and Subban is huge. They're both better than anyone on the Pens and Flyers D not named Pronger.

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06-04-2011, 03:58 PM
  #519
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Err no. Especially not Boston, where is that crap from anyway? Boston is not going to retain Kaberle (who has been terribad for them anyhow) and Boychuk was playing forward for the 29th team in the league because he's that bad a D-man. Boychuk has been exposed like crazy by Tampa and Vancouver. Boston's D is actually very shallow, I have no idea how they got so overrated, probably the same logic that had Toronto in the top 5 at the beginning of last year. But it's a pretty weak unit. 2nd most shots against in the league. They really miss Wideman.

You can maybe make a case for the other two, but having the one-two punch of Markov and Subban is huge. They're both better than anyone on the Pens and Flyers D not named Pronger.

Maybe u guys are right in the Boston case but they are far from a weak unit ....

So Markov who play 50 games in the last 2 years and Subban are better then Letang at the moment? or even Timonen or Martin? not so sure if u ask me...

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06-04-2011, 04:00 PM
  #520
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The Diaz signing might indicate the Habs will dangle Weber in a package of some sort.

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06-04-2011, 04:07 PM
  #521
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Originally Posted by Monaco88 View Post
Lets see some of them....

Pittsburgh Orpik--Letang Michalek--Martin
Wash Schultz--Green Alzner--Carlson
Flyers Carle--Pronger Timonen--Coburn
Bos Chara--Seidenberg Kaberle-Boychuk
Rangers Staal-Girardi McDonagh--Sauer


We know that were not in the top 3 in the east with Markov-Gorges and Gill-Subban
but maybe top5

Pens-Flyers-Boston are ahead
IMO nobody touches us if our top 4 is:

Markov - Subban
Gorges - Wizniewski

I dont see anyone touching it... bring on any comers, I will take that top 4.

Honestly, the way I see it (I know many will disagree) is that we HAVE to get an edge on the competition. Our forward lines are not it... Our goaltending was flat out fantastic. Lots of teams have quality goaltenders, but IMO our's is even a step above that... Carey Price is amazing. I even had my leaf fan buddies telling me the same thing last year... They even know how incredible this kid will be.

Our goaltending edge is strong enough to competently say we should nail down a playoff spot every year Carey is around (save from a melt down from a few years back).

Forwards are a touch below average IMO... In no way is any of our forwards dominant offensively, and they do rely a lot on a 2 way style of play in order to succeed. A good system team though, and there is pockets of talent peppered through out the line up. Speedy, with an element of being undersized.

The defence though, imo is close to being a great group, and in the upper echelon of defensive groups around the nhl.

If we have 2/3rds the elements of a great team, IMO we are darkhorses for contention.

With what we have now... 1/3 the element, with an incomplete 2/3rds, we have a playoff team, with a little edge outside of goaltending.

Strengthening the skating team will take us so much further...

Very few teams could respond to a top 4 of Markov-Subban, Gorges-Wizniewski.

Add to that, the great spares we would have in Spacek, Gill, Emelin, Weber,

IMO this would be an elite puckmoving defensive unit... all offensively challenged d-men with a gift for defence would be paired with someone who is more offensively exceptional...

The top 4...
Markov-Subban IMO is a deadly pairing... They are both 2 way guys, Markov the thinker, Subban the physical force... They complement eachother well...

That pairing opens up to us availability wise, due to the option of Wiz on the second pairing. Putting a 50 pt defenceman with Gorges, allowing him to open up offensively (Bear in mind, IMO almost everyone undercuts Wiz' defensive game. He has only posted 2 negative seasons in his entire NHL career, and he's played on some stinkers. For his size, he is quite a solid hitter as well.

And rounding out the top 6, a lot of elements that can be helpful in a long cup run.

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06-04-2011, 04:09 PM
  #522
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The Diaz signing might indicate the Habs will dangle Weber in a package of some sort.
JMGB or whatever is his name had the right of it.

Emelin and Weber will be the 6th and 7th guy on D.

Diaz will start in the AHL (he said he didn't mind climbing the ranks).

D will be

Markov-Gorges
Subban-Gill
Spacek + Weber/Emelin*

*outside chance of Emelin being bumped out by Diaz depending on how camp goes.

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06-04-2011, 04:20 PM
  #523
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Yemelin didnt sign a contract to play in Hamilton. Hes not giving up 6 figures to go play for 68k in Hamilton. Hes going to start or f-off back to Russia

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06-04-2011, 04:21 PM
  #524
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
JMGB or whatever is his name had the right of it.

Emelin and Weber will be the 6th and 7th guy on D.

Diaz will start in the AHL (he said he didn't mind climbing the ranks).

D will be

Markov-Gorges
Subban-Gill
Spacek + Weber/Emelin*

*outside chance of Emelin being bumped out by Diaz depending on how camp goes.

I don't feel really assured with this D-Corp... I really hope they re-sign ONE OF Hamrlik or Wiz to complement that.

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06-04-2011, 04:55 PM
  #525
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
JMGB or whatever is his name had the right of it.

Emelin and Weber will be the 6th and 7th guy on D.

Diaz will start in the AHL (he said he didn't mind climbing the ranks).

D will be

Markov-Gorges
Subban-Gill
Spacek + Weber/Emelin*

*outside chance of Emelin being bumped out by Diaz depending on how camp goes.
I could see this line up as a possibility, but if I look at what Gauthier did last year, signing Picard and making us start with 8 Ds, I wouldn't be surprised if we got another D. Markov might not start the year (if we believe initial reports that took him out for one full year, setting his return for November) and Emelin could very well be as big of a flop as a success, so I'm not sure PG won't make more additions on D.

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