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Drew Stafford contract/Brandon Dubinsky wants $4.5M per

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Old
06-05-2011, 12:20 PM
  #101
SickNice
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Originally Posted by mcsauer2738 View Post
For example I negotiate contracts for a living and here is some simple guidelines we all follow throughout negotiations.

1) 10% rule. If the asking price for a service or in this case Dubi's service as a player to the Rangers is 4.5 mill that means that he is realistically shooting for a contract of 4.05 million.

2) Now from the Rangers perspective if they're goal is to get dubi for 3.8 mill their first offer would be 10% less of that at the 3.42 million range.

What this says to me is that Dubi's contract will be signed later in the summer rather than sooner leaving him vulnerable for an offer sheet if a team wishes to go that route.
Nice post. What are the rules regarding compensation for signing an RFA to an offer sheet? I want to say its based on salary but I don't have any idea. Hypothetically, if a team signed Dubi to an offer sheet at 4.5 for 4/5 years what would that entail in terms of compensation picks?

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06-05-2011, 12:23 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by SickNice View Post
Nice post. What are the rules regarding compensation for signing an RFA to an offer sheet? I want to say its based on salary but I don't have any idea. Hypothetically, if a team signed Dubi to an offer sheet at 4.5 for 4/5 years what would that entail in terms of compensation picks?
Nevermind I found it on wikipedia. Assuming its accurate, if a team signed Dubi to a deal worth less than 4.7M per year, they'd forfeit a 1st and a 3rd round pick. Anything above 4.7M per requires a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick.

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06-05-2011, 12:39 PM
  #103
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4m 5 year deals for Dubi and Cally they're worth it. Staal got nearly 4m and these two are just as important.

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06-05-2011, 01:02 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Negotiating. Start high, settle for about what you really expect.
exactly if he wants $4 mil he can't ask for $4 mil cause then sather will offer less and it'll be negotiated down to less than $4 mil...by asking for $4.5, when sather overs like $3.5 he can come down to 4

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06-05-2011, 01:03 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
4m 5 year deals for Dubi and Cally they're worth it. Staal got nearly 4m and these two are just as important.
I'm totally fine with that, as long as the Rangers are buying UFA years. My concern is that Dubi wants 4-4.5 mil for 2 years then the opportunity to get a new contract as a UFA.

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06-05-2011, 01:17 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
I'm very confused.

Wolski is not worth 3.5 being just one season removed from a 23G 42A 65PT season but Dubnisky is worth 4 after putting up 24G 30A 54PT.

How does that work?
Its alright man some people are a bit slower than others it all good... In hockey there is many parts of the game, forechecking, hitting, special teams, energy, board play, leadership and of course the all important points. W2 may have had a more than expected number of points last season but with all the other aspects of the game plus expected potential of each player i would give Dubi more money any day of the week.

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06-05-2011, 01:22 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
If you pay 4.5 for Dubi, I think you have to give Callahan even more. If this results in another holdout situation, then I start looking to move Brandon if I'm the NYR. I don't think he's earned 4.5/per yet.
I bet the Rangers would like to get Callahan signed first and then use him as a comparable. RB, doesn't Dubinsky have a real hard nosed agent?

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06-05-2011, 01:24 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Isn't it obvious? Anyone who doesn't think Dubinsky is the greatest Ranger of all time has obviously never watched a Ranger game.
Its not a matter of thinking Dubi is the greatest player its arguing that W2 is a better player. Anyone with 1 eye and 1/8 of a brain can see who the better player was for this team.

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06-05-2011, 01:31 PM
  #109
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Again, who here is saying that?

The point most of us are making is that Dubinsky is a much better player then Wolski, and it goes beyond the point totals. If you watched the team even semi-regularly, this part would be obvious.
Exactly Dubi is better not saying Dubi he is a superstart. W2 is 1 stop from Europe at the rate hes going. Teams arent going to accept that lackluster play he demonstrates on most nights. Sure he may have some skill, hard to see at times but he hasent shown that skill to be worthy of a front line player which is all hes capable of being with his style. He skates around like a superstar but does not back it up. Anyway i can safely say if we did not have Dubi this year we would not have even maked the playoffs. Sure he stumbled at times and were frusturated but its because we have high expectations for him. He and Cally will make a very strong 2nd line for many years and if we cant keep them both for about 4 each that fine with me.


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06-05-2011, 01:36 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by SickNice View Post
Going back to the original post, Dubinsky (a) scored the same amount of points, while getting quality minutes, in 15 less games, (b) scored seven less goals in 15 less games, (c) I'm not sure on the exact number, but Dubi had 5 or 6 ENG, (d) had problems throughout the year demonstrating consistency, and (e) had problems throughout the year with penalties and playing with discipline.

Dubi does not deserve a contract equivalent to Stafford's. Will he get one that is close, he very well may. But these are simple facts, and it does not mean I'm a Dubi hater by any means.
I disagree. Point A and B are definitely in Stafford's favor. Point C isn't really important enough to affect contract negotiations IMO. D can be said of almost any player and definitely every player on this team last year and E I didn't really notice to be honest. He's a little bit of a hot head but that works in the Rangers favor more than it works against them I think.

Overall, he plays more important minutes than Stafford on both sides of the puck, he is a leader for NYR in a way that Stafford is not for Buff and he plays on an entirely different level of physicality. Also, he is more consistent from season to season than Stafford. While Dubi went 40, 41, 44, 54 in points in the last four seasons, Stafford went 38, 45, 34, 52. Dubi is consistently putting up more points ever year and Stafford is more up and down from year to year. Personally, if I were his agent I'd argue that those things make up for the point disparity between them. Its not all in the statistics. Stafford is a depth scorer and Dubi is a key piece to NYR who plays physical hockey in all situations while consistently improving his offense.

Stafford is not the heart or soul of his team. He's not the guy on his team who will step up to anybody and defend the rest of the guys. He's not the guy who goes out to play hard against the other team to wear then down. I could go on. The point is Dubi does all of those things and consistently improves on his point totals while Stafford does none of them and is less consistent.

I don't think its out of the question to say that he deserves a similar contract.

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06-05-2011, 02:03 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
doesn't Dubinsky have a real hard nosed agent?




Quote:
Entering the seventh day of the negotiating stalemate that has kept unsigned free agent Brandon Dubinsky out of training camp, the Rangers’ projected first-line center has reduced his asking price, The Post has learned.

“Of the three proposals on the table, we’ve altered the two- and one-year proposals that we believe are reasonable given the marketplace and the Rangers’ payroll,” Kurt Overhardt, Dubinsky’s agent, told The Post by phone late yesterday afternoon. “I think it’s unfortunate that Rangers’ management is treating this as a sum-zero game with this player.

“It doesn’t make sense.”
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...gHDKAoOrcXdmSN


I'm surprised the asking price is 4.5M. I expected higher. Wouldn't be surprised if he gets a tad under 4, like Staal.

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06-05-2011, 02:16 PM
  #112
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Overhardt isn't a big agent. He doesn't have that many clients as some of the bigger agencies. The majority of his clients are US and Canadian kids playing college hockey. Dubinsky is the exception having played in the WHL. Sather has dealt with Overhardt on Dubinsky and Al Montoya.

It's all part of the process. Zajac filed for arbitration two years ago and Overhardt got 4 years from Jersey right before the hearing. Close to $4M per. Dubinsky will file for arbitration on July 5. Hearings begin July 20 something and conclude in early August.

People get too emotional. Its a business for the team and the player.

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06-05-2011, 02:19 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
I bet the Rangers would like to get Callahan signed first and then use him as a comparable. RB, doesn't Dubinsky have a real hard nosed agent?
You're probably right, Callahan's contract will most certainly be used against Dubinsky.

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06-05-2011, 02:35 PM
  #114
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Both of these players are overated By Ranger fans, it's not to say they aren't good. Although on Callahan side he is a one of those special team players that every team should have. He certainly deserves more cash than Dubi.

Brandon Dubinsky is tremendously overated for a guy who hasn't scored 25 goals in a season yet and it's looking like he may never get to 30 per.

To me anything 4 million and over is ludicrous considering the Grabner and Okposo contracts

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06-05-2011, 03:42 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by The Mouth View Post
Both of these players are overated By Ranger fans, it's not to say they aren't good. Although on Callahan side he is a one of those special team players that every team should have. He certainly deserves more cash than Dubi.

Brandon Dubinsky is tremendously overated for a guy who hasn't scored 25 goals in a season yet and it's looking like he may never get to 30 per.

To me anything 4 million and over is ludicrous considering the Grabner and Okposo contracts
Agreed, Dubinsky is vastly overrated. He also seems very streaky to me. Honestly I'd rather see him as part of a package for a #1 LW then sign him to a contract anywhere close to 4mil/season.

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06-05-2011, 03:47 PM
  #116
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I swear anything over 4 mill for Dubinsky and I will be pissed.

He doesn't deserve more than Callahan bu that's beside the point.

4.5 is absolutely ludicrous. I just hope he is using negotiation tactics 101.

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06-05-2011, 04:04 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mouth View Post
Both of these players are overated By Ranger fans, it's not to say they aren't good. Although on Callahan side he is a one of those special team players that every team should have. He certainly deserves more cash than Dubi.

Brandon Dubinsky is tremendously overated for a guy who hasn't scored 25 goals in a season yet and it's looking like he may never get to 30 per.

To me anything 4 million and over is ludicrous considering the Grabner and Okposo contracts
But you can't really consider either the Grabner or Okposo contracts, as those players are at different service periods in their careers. That would be like comparing Dubinsky's upcoming contract to the one that Anisimov will earn--apples and oranges.

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06-05-2011, 04:06 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by The Mouth View Post
Both of these players are overated By Ranger fans, it's not to say they aren't good. Although on Callahan side he is a one of those special team players that every team should have. He certainly deserves more cash than Dubi.

Brandon Dubinsky is tremendously overated for a guy who hasn't scored 25 goals in a season yet and it's looking like he may never get to 30 per.

To me anything 4 million and over is ludicrous considering the Grabner and Okposo contracts
fully agree........$3.5-$3.75 and i'd be happy.

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06-05-2011, 04:07 PM
  #119
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Agreed, Dubinsky is vastly overrated. He also seems very streaky to me. Honestly I'd rather see him as part of a package for a #1 LW then sign him to a contract anywhere close to 4mil/season.
He was streaky in his first three years in the league where he would dominate and then disappear for a while but last year he seemed to put it together and bring it every night. He did slow down in the 2nd half but I'm not sure how much of it is attributed to his injury.

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06-05-2011, 04:20 PM
  #120
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He was streaky in his first three years in the league where he would dominate and then disappear for a while but last year he seemed to put it together and bring it every night. He did slow down in the 2nd half but I'm not sure how much of it is attributed to his injury.
I agree with that assessment for the most part, but even when he is bringing it every night, he is not a dominant force on the ice who is winning us games like Gaborik did the year before last. Obviously it is unfair to Dubinsky to compare him to Gabby, but Dubi has yet to put together a complete season, nor is their evidence that he eventually will.

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06-05-2011, 04:24 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
He was streaky in his first three years in the league where he would dominate and then disappear for a while but last year he seemed to put it together and bring it every night. He did slow down in the 2nd half but I'm not sure how much of it is attributed to his injury.
So you are saying that he was streaky again? LOL

Dubi looked better this season, but definitely hasn't put anything together.

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06-05-2011, 04:26 PM
  #122
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I agree with that assessment for the most part, but even when he is bringing it every night, he is not a dominant force on the ice who is winning us games like Gaborik did the year before last. Obviously it is unfair to Dubinsky to compare him to Gabby, but Dubi has yet to put together a complete season, nor is their evidence that he eventually will.
At the beginning of the season when he got off to that hot start he was basically doing whatever he wanted on the ice with the way he was playing. And you can't say for sure whether he'll ever put together a complete season because you never know what may happen but his production has increased every year, especially the last two, since he joined the league so I don't think it's a stretch to say that he becomes even more consistent and hits both 30 (this one I'm not so sure about but definitely 25) goals and 60 points next season assuming he plays all 82 games next year.

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06-05-2011, 04:27 PM
  #123
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So you are saying that he was streaky again? LOL

Dubi looked better this season, but definitely hasn't put anything together.
Wasn't as streaky as he was. He was still doing things to help the team as opposed to past years where you would wonder if he was even dressed. There's definitely room for improvement though.

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06-05-2011, 04:35 PM
  #124
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The people who say Dubinsky is overrated are the same people who either think top 6 forwards grow on trees OR 60 points isn't great for a second line player.

Dubi missed 5 games, played the entire second half of this season with an unhealed stress fracture hurting his most useful asset (his leg strength), didn't get to play a full season with Callahan, the guy he has the most chemistry with, yet STILL led this team in points.

4 million for 4+ years is FANTASTIC for Dubinsky.

So we package him for a 1st line LWer...who's our second line LWer? Carl Hagelin? Chris Kreider? Wojtek Wolski?

I really hope he gets to play with Brad Richards and then everyone starts to consider him as good as James Neal, because he definitely is.

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06-05-2011, 04:38 PM
  #125
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Dubinsky is already better than Neal; the guy cannot score without someone babying him passes.

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