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Jagr interested to play in Montreal pt2

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06-05-2011, 12:41 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Cajun2083 View Post
and more depth as well, lets face it injuries happen and this just gives us more options
for one year like you said the risk/reward is totally worth it.
I'd say it's totally worth it if we strike out on every other forward UFA that we want. For example, I'd much rather get brooks Laich for 4 years than Jagr for 1. All else fails, sure Jagr is a great stop gap.

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06-05-2011, 12:45 PM
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Then what do we do next year when Price AND Subban need to be resigned to contracts that will eat up almost 10 million in cap space?
Next year?? 2012-2013?? Give me a break.

Drop Spacek and Moen, and if Pacioretty supplants Kostitsyn for good, let AK46 walk. Don't forget, Eller takes a pay cut after this year. If Jagr doesn't earn his keep, let him go too.

There are LOTS of options after next year.

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06-05-2011, 12:46 PM
  #28
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Jagr on a third line would be sweet. But I doubt he comes to play third line minutes. Hes not a first line player now and can't play over 16 minutes a game all season. Third line minutes as a pp specialist would be ideal.

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06-05-2011, 12:52 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by ScopeHockey View Post
Then what do we do next year when Price AND Subban need to be resigned to contracts that will eat up almost 10 million in cap space?
spacek's money goes to subban and moen's goes to price
also laraques buy out is done and we could get a cheaper back up goalie
no crisis at all

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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
I'd say it's totally worth it if we strike out on every other forward UFA that we want. For example, I'd much rather get brooks Laich for 4 years than Jagr for 1. All else fails, sure Jagr is a great stop gap.
oh man dont get me wrong i would much rather brooks laich for sure!
i just dont know if wash will let him go, hes too important to them
but Laich with cammy and pleks would be deadly imo

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06-05-2011, 12:56 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Cajun2083 View Post
and more depth as well, lets face it injuries happen and this just gives us more options
for one year like you said the risk/reward is totally worth it.
Absolutely it is... we have definately over the years taken some risks on some big duds... (Samsonov, Czerkawski, Audette) and so many are unwilling to take on the most prolific (not even mentioning arguably the greatest) Euro scorer of all time???

Jagr's key to his game is his larger than tree trunk legs. He uses them to push off the competition.

He's the immoveable object. People have to remember that was the amazing thing about Ovechkin drilling him in the olympics... That never happened to Jag's in his prime... It's a bit more likely to happen now... But the speed thing... Playing with Camm & Pleks... Im honestly not that worried about it. He compliments, because he can do anything necessary to help score the goal. Anybody thinks it's only Jag's and Pleks who benefit... Does anyone remember what happens to Cammalleri when he plays with a dominant winger? Look at Calgary, right before we signed him. Camm-Jokinen-Iggy was deadly for the flames...

Camm can be even deadlier w/ Jagr, as he has options as to who to feed it too... Many forget that Camm can pop 40 helpers any given season as well... He is very well rounded. Offensively I mean

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Originally Posted by Game View Post
I agree, Jagr seems to have some chemistry with Pleks, plus he adds size to the top 6, along with Pacioretty and Kostitsyn (If we keep him)

However the only thing preventing us from having an awesome Top 9 is Scott Gomez, unfortunately. It's too bad really, he just seems to be on the decline, and he might of peeked early in his career in New Jersey.
True, kind of like Joey Juneau... the 30's have been very rough to him lol

I can only HOPE he is finding his game right now... To be honest, I hope it's more of a conditioning thing. I really do. We would've been so close to being KNOWN contenders if Scotty brought back some of that Killer instinct he had as a devil. He used to feast on our division... I can understand why Gainey considered Gomez in the first place (He did very well against almost all of our adversaries)...

But it would also give him some breathing room to find his game, because the new 'shiny' trinket on the team would attract a tonne of attention... Jagr playing his first year with a Canadian team... IMO he's going to LOVE it here.

Canada loves hockey (that's a given) Jagr is already near demi-god status... But he has never felt the true adoration/passion of a Canadian team's crowd. It's addicting to these guys (see Kovalev)

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06-05-2011, 01:48 PM
  #31
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if Jagr wants to play for between 2 to 2.5m sure. He can be on the third line and as an earlier poster said, play 15 min a game and PP time. We could still go out and get a Laich and end up with 3 dynamite lines.

Cammy - Pleks - Laich
Patch - Gomez - Gionta
Andrei - Eller - Jagr

We can switch Laich and Jagr from time to time as the situation calls for.

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06-05-2011, 01:50 PM
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I would be thrilled with this pickup. He's 6'3, 242 lbs, and he's still got magnificent hands. He's the bigger body we need on the Plekanec, Cammalleri line. I could see him easily putting up 60 pts + on Pleky's line, and we wouldn't have to give him a long term contract. Probably just one year, which is all we need to win the cup.

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06-05-2011, 02:17 PM
  #33
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It's not an issue of not wanting Jagr (frankly anyone that says we couldn't use him is being a tad silly, it's what price we want him at.

Anything much over Kostitsyn's 3.25 a year and we walk away.

Our leading scorers last season had all of 57, 47, 46 and 45 points. Do you honestly believe Jagr still couldn't be at least a 50-60 point player today?

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06-05-2011, 02:19 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Next year?? 2012-2013?? Give me a break.

Drop Spacek and Moen, and if Pacioretty supplants Kostitsyn for good, let AK46 walk. Don't forget, Eller takes a pay cut after this year. If Jagr doesn't earn his keep, let him go too.

There are LOTS of options after next year.
?! No. He gets an increase.

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06-05-2011, 02:41 PM
  #35
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?! No. He gets an increase.
Eller is on an ELC as a first-rounded, which means it's bonus-laden. He's likely to make more actual money in his next contract, but the cap hit should stay fairly level or even go down a smidge (but just a smidge).

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06-05-2011, 03:00 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by TheBuriedHab View Post
Jagr on a third line would be sweet. But I doubt he comes to play third line minutes. Hes not a first line player now and can't play over 16 minutes a game all season. Third line minutes as a pp specialist would be ideal.
Jagr on a 3rd line with special team time is fine.

However, ask yourself if one of the best player of all time wants to make 3 times less money playing on a 3rd line in the NHL.

Not to mention I still have this image of Jagr yelling at a teammate during the WC... managed to get pissed off about a guy he will play 10 games max with. Probably a great guy in the locker room.

Now people will say that he has chemistry with Plekanec because he had 1-2 good games at the WC against players with zero chemistry and who are unfamiliar with the coach's system but I don't think he can go toe to toe against other teams top lines for 82 games + playoffs.

Jagr in Montreal is not the great idea people think it is. Also, it's not all 39-40 year olds who can play like Selanne. Selanne is more the exception than the rule in this case. And he plays in an ultra offensive team with incredible offensive centers, something we're definitely not.

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06-05-2011, 07:00 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Jagr on a 3rd line with special team time is fine.

However, ask yourself if one of the best player of all time wants to make 3 times less money playing on a 3rd line in the NHL.

Not to mention I still have this image of Jagr yelling at a teammate during the WC... managed to get pissed off about a guy he will play 10 games max with. Probably a great guy in the locker room.

Now people will say that he has chemistry with Plekanec because he had 1-2 good games at the WC against players with zero chemistry and who are unfamiliar with the coach's system but I don't think he can go toe to toe against other teams top lines for 82 games + playoffs.

Jagr in Montreal is not the great idea people think it is. Also, it's not all 39-40 year olds who can play like Selanne. Selanne is more the exception than the rule in this case. And he plays in an ultra offensive team with incredible offensive centers, something we're definitely not.
Jagr as a 34, 35, 36 was better than Selanne as a 34, 35, 36 year old but for some odd reason Jagr as a 39, 40 year old won't be better than Selanne as a 39, 40 year old?

Jagr might not be as fast as he once was but Jagr hasn't had that much speed in the NHL since he left Pittsburgh.

What people forget to realize is that when Jagr scored 123 Pts in 2005-06, he was 245 lbs and not once scored on a breakaway.

Jagr is now 225 lbs and is trimmer and faster than he was in New York.

Of course catches up with everyone but this is Jagr we're talking about.

His fitness level was legendary and has been working his butt of in Russia over the last 3 seasons to stay in top shape.

As yourselves this, if Jagr were to just come and play and get nothing but 40-50 Pts and play 16 minutes, do you honestly think he would do that.

We all know the KHL offers him more money so obviously money is not the motivation here.

Montreal is a hockey meca, Jagr has a lot of pride and knows his place in history and has studied the history of the game and got to play with one of the greatest players of all time in Lemieux. He saw Lemieux sit out for 3 years and then come back at age 36 to scored 76 Pts in 43 games.

Obviously Jagr is not 36 years old now, he's 39 but he has been playing hockey still and has the legs still. It's not like he sat on his butt the last 3 years and grew a belly.

Plekanec is not a top 10 centermen no, but he is just the type of player Jagr would be best fit playing with.

Nylander was a decent player who could give you 20-25 goals and 75 Pts and with him, Jagr was dynamite.

Plekanec is similar to Nylander and Straka were he's a very smart, good playmaker, capable of scoring 25 goals and can play sound in his own end. This would allow Jagr to do his thing.

I will get laughed and all but I truly believe in my mind and heart that Jagr is still capable of 70-90 Pts in the NHL now.

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06-05-2011, 07:12 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
Jagr as a 34, 35, 36 was better than Selanne as a 34, 35, 36 year old but for some odd reason Jagr as a 39, 40 year old won't be better than Selanne as a 39, 40 year old?

Jagr might not be as fast as he once was but Jagr hasn't had that much speed in the NHL since he left Pittsburgh.

What people forget to realize is that when Jagr scored 123 Pts in 2005-06, he was 245 lbs and not once scored on a breakaway.

Jagr is now 225 lbs and is trimmer and faster than he was in New York.

Of course catches up with everyone but this is Jagr we're talking about.

His fitness level was legendary and has been working his butt of in Russia over the last 3 seasons to stay in top shape.

As yourselves this, if Jagr were to just come and play and get nothing but 40-50 Pts and play 16 minutes, do you honestly think he would do that.

We all know the KHL offers him more money so obviously money is not the motivation here.

Montreal is a hockey meca, Jagr has a lot of pride and knows his place in history and has studied the history of the game and got to play with one of the greatest players of all time in Lemieux. He saw Lemieux sit out for 3 years and then come back at age 36 to scored 76 Pts in 43 games.

Obviously Jagr is not 36 years old now, he's 39 but he has been playing hockey still and has the legs still. It's not like he sat on his butt the last 3 years and grew a belly.

Plekanec is not a top 10 centermen no, but he is just the type of player Jagr would be best fit playing with.

Nylander was a decent player who could give you 20-25 goals and 75 Pts and with him, Jagr was dynamite.

Plekanec is similar to Nylander and Straka were he's a very smart, good playmaker, capable of scoring 25 goals and can play sound in his own end. This would allow Jagr to do his thing.

I will get laughed and all but I truly believe in my mind and heart that Jagr is still capable of 70-90 Pts in the NHL now.
question is How much would you pay him and for how long?

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06-05-2011, 07:34 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by habsrule22 View Post
question is How much would you pay him and for how long?
I would say about 2-3 million and include bonuses.

If he hits a certain amount of points and helps the team reach a certain round in the playoffs then a 2nd year option would kick in.

Plekanec and Jagr have kept in touch a lot and Jagr's pride will not allow him to be a mediocre player. He won't be willing to come back to the NHL unless he thinks he can still be an elite player. Plekanec probably tells what to expect back in the NHL and how the game is faster now.

People use the Olympics as an indicator of how would be in the NHL. So what Ovechkin hit him on open ice, Jagr was playing in the KHL on bigger ice surfaces and needed time to adjust to the NHL size rink again. A few days of preparing for the Olympics was not going to do that for Jagr.

From Hemsky to Plekanec to Elias, all these Czech players have said that Jagr can still play in the NHL at a high level and that his game and body are tailor fit for the smaller rink in the NHL.

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06-05-2011, 07:39 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
It's not an issue of not wanting Jagr (frankly anyone that says we couldn't use him is being a tad silly, it's what price we want him at.

Anything much over Kostitsyn's 3.25 a year and we walk away.

Our leading scorers last season had all of 57, 47, 46 and 45 points. Do you honestly believe Jagr still couldn't be at least a 50-60 point player today?


Well I don't know. Do you think a 40 year old Teemu Selanne could put up over 80. Could a 37 year old Tim Thomas win the vezina? Could a 43 year old Mark Recchi put up 50?

Jagr was one o the league's besn his prime. Just because he's gotten older doesn't mean he isn't still an incredible athlete. He put up 50 points in 50 games in the KHL. At that pace he'd put up 82 in a full NHL season. Ofcoarse, you'd have to take into account that he'll be playing in a much tougher league, but also the fact that he'll have much better linemates as well. I would say a 20 point subtraction is fair.

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06-05-2011, 07:53 PM
  #41
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Well I don't know. Do you think a 40 year old Teemu Selanne could put up over 80. Could a 37 year old Tim Thomas win the vezina? Could a 43 year old Mark Recchi put up 50?

Jagr was one o the league's besn his prime. Just because he's gotten older doesn't mean he isn't still an incredible athlete. He put up 50 points in 50 games in the KHL. At that pace he'd put up 82 in a full NHL season. Ofcoarse, you'd have to take into account that he'll be playing in a much tougher league, but also the fact that he'll have much better linemates as well. I would say a 20 point subtraction is fair.
You can't compare KHL and NHL numbers and do a straight up conversion.

In 2004-05 during the lockout many stars played in the RSL/ KHL and other than Datsyuk and Jagr they were all under a PPG.

The KHL is inferior to the NHL yes, but it is also a much lower scoring league than the NHL.

In the NHL the rink is smaller and would actually benefit Jagr more than any other player over the age of 35.

The KHL requires more skating and makes it harder on a 36 + year old to be successful. Jagr is big and strong ands possibly still the best player in the world on hold on to the puck along the boards.

He has world class vision and could be good for 45-70 assists. He still has an amazing release and shot and should be good enoug for 20-35 goals.

I think Jagr could surprise everyone and pull off a Selanne and finish in the top 10 in scoring.

Does anyone remember 2006-07? So what he was 35 (younger than 39) but he was also coming off of reconstructive shoulder surgery from the 06 playoffs and some doctors thought he might not even be able to play again. Jagr still put up 96 Pts.

Jagr is still huge and strong at about 6'3 and 225 lbs so his puck shielding would still be there. He also was playing in a less taxing league and his body in terms of NHL mileage would be more that of a 36 year old than a 39 year old. His playmaking ability is top 10 all-time and with guys like Plekanec, Cammaleri, Subban, Gionta, Subban... 5 on 5 or on the powerplay would help Jagr pick up a lot of assists and I think he would surprise everyone and still be a 30 goal scorer.

The fact that he is no longer 245 lbs but 225 lbs also means he will be quicker, faster and more flexible than he was 2005-08.

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06-05-2011, 07:54 PM
  #42
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There's no room for both Kostitsyn and Jagr. Then again, what would Kostitsyn fetch on draft day?
I agree completely. We don't want to have too many offensive threats on the team. The goal is to win every game while scoring the absolute minimum number of goals required to achieve that victory

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06-05-2011, 08:01 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
You can't compare KHL and NHL numbers and do a straight up conversion.

In 2004-05 during the lockout many stars played in the RSL/ KHL and other than Datsyuk and Jagr they were all under a PPG.

The KHL is inferior to the NHL yes, but it is also a much lower scoring league than the NHL.

In the NHL the rink is smaller and would actually benefit Jagr more than any other player over the age of 35.

The KHL requires more skating and makes it harder on a 36 + year old to be successful. Jagr is big and strong ands possibly still the best player in the world on hold on to the puck along the boards.

He has world class vision and could be good for 45-70 assists. He still has an amazing release and shot and should be good enoug for 20-35 goals.

I think Jagr could surprise everyone and pull off a Selanne and finish in the top 10 in scoring.

Does anyone remember 2006-07? So what he was 35 (younger than 39) but he was also coming off of reconstructive shoulder surgery from the 06 playoffs and some doctors thought he might not even be able to play again. Jagr still put up 96 Pts.

Jagr is still huge and strong at about 6'3 and 225 lbs so his puck shielding would still be there. He also was playing in a less taxing league and his body in terms of NHL mileage would be more that of a 36 year old than a 39 year old. His playmaking ability is top 10 all-time and with guys like Plekanec, Cammaleri, Subban, Gionta, Subban... 5 on 5 or on the powerplay would help Jagr pick up a lot of assists and I think he would surprise everyone and still be a 30 goal scorer.

The fact that he is no longer 245 lbs but 225 lbs also means he will be quicker, faster and more flexible than he was 2005-08.
Nicely put. Hope the habs sign him and prove you right. What doyou think would be a reasonable salary for him?

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06-05-2011, 08:11 PM
  #44
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Nicely put. Hope the habs sign him and prove you right. What doyou think would be a reasonable salary for him?
See my post about that.

About 2-3 million with a 2nd year option kicking if he hits certain numbers ( such as 30 goals or 80 Pts ie) and or if his team makes it far enough in the playoffs.

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06-05-2011, 09:45 PM
  #45
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See my post about that.

About 2-3 million with a 2nd year option kicking if he hits certain numbers ( such as 30 goals or 80 Pts ie) and or if his team makes it far enough in the playoffs.
Bonuses are allowed under the CBA, though options are not.

However, there could be a gentleman's agreement to sign him again if he has a good year by some pre-defined standards.

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06-05-2011, 10:03 PM
  #46
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Eller is on an ELC as a first-rounded, which means it's bonus-laden. He's likely to make more actual money in his next contract, but the cap hit should stay fairly level or even go down a smidge (but just a smidge).

Yes, I understood that. What I meant is that if he continues his progression just like he did last year, he will earn more than his 1.2M cap hit(bonus included).

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06-05-2011, 10:16 PM
  #47
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Jaromir Jagr is not coming to the Habs. Kirill Kabanov is not coming to the Habs. No one likes the Habs.



Edit:

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06-06-2011, 07:54 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Next year?? 2012-2013?? Give me a break.

Drop Spacek and Moen, and if Pacioretty supplants Kostitsyn for good, let AK46 walk. Don't forget, Eller takes a pay cut after this year. If Jagr doesn't earn his keep, let him go too.

There are LOTS of options after next year.
OK, fair enough. I think we need to keep Kostitsyn though, even if Pacioretty supplants him. And to me, your proposition would only work if Kostitsyn's salary is not on the books.

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06-06-2011, 08:10 AM
  #49
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Bonuses are allowed under the CBA, though options are not.

However, there could be a gentleman's agreement to sign him again if he has a good year by some pre-defined standards.
Did we not have the same CBA in 2007-08?

Jagr under that agreement had an option for 2008-09 if he had gotten 82 Pts and 30 goals in 2007-08, he would have been automatically signed for the 08-09 season in New York.

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06-06-2011, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
Did we not have the same CBA in 2007-08?

Jagr under that agreement had an option for 2008-09 if he had gotten 82 Pts and 30 goals in 2007-08, he would have been automatically signed for the 08-09 season in New York.
I think he signed his contract before the new CBA.

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