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(from summer 2010) Gagne for Tim Thomas

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05-06-2011, 10:29 PM
  #276
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
So, Boston, who was trying to deal him, is floating out there that the surgery was "minor" and that he'd be ready by training camp (notice, not ready now)?

Yeah, that's convincing... I mean, what reasons would Boston have to minimize his injury?
I repeat. You are inferring they were internal sources and again Holmgren with his ties in the league could have followed up and looked into it more..that is all I'm saying. Then followed it up with a physical to see if it was indeed minor. Maybe he did ..but again I doubt it.

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05-06-2011, 10:35 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
I repeat. You are inferring they were internal sources and again Holmgren with his ties in the league could have followed up and looked into it more..that is all I'm saying. Then followed it up with a physical to see if it was indeed minor. Maybe he did ..but again I doubt it.
...who do you think the sources are for medical stuff? By law the doctor can't talk about it.

Boston, however, isn't going to let you run a physical until you have an agreement in principal. So, no, we never got a physical on Thomas. They tried to get Turco and Nabokov, and then they idiotically signed Leighton. None of that, however, meant dealing for Thomas was a wise move.

And, again, a physical last summer wasn't going to tell you if it was going to hold. I'm sure Leino would have passed one last summer, but the hips still flared up again.

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05-06-2011, 10:43 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
...who do you think the sources are for medical stuff? By law the doctor can't talk about it.

Boston, however, isn't going to let you run a physical until you have an agreement in principal. So, no, we never got a physical on Thomas. They tried to get Turco and Nabokov, and then they idiotically signed Leighton. None of that, however, meant dealing for Thomas was a wise move.

And, again, a physical last summer wasn't going to tell you if it was going to hold. I'm sure Leino would have passed one last summer, but the hips still flared up again.
As I've said....weigh the wise moves of going into the reg season and playoffs with Leighton, Boosh and a rookie as well as giving Leighton his contract, signing Shelley and Zherdev and even Carcillo..and then doubling down by trading Gagne for Walker. I would have taken all the overblown risk of Thomas over all those failure moves that amounted to 7M and multiple years of cap hits with Shelley and Walker in particular.

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05-06-2011, 10:47 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
So, Boston, who was trying to deal him, is floating out there that the surgery was "minor" and that he'd be ready by training camp (notice, not ready now)?

Yeah, that's convincing... I mean, what reasons would Boston have to minimize his injury?
Bruins fan daring to show his face.

The Bruins were never as anxious to get rid of Thomas as their fans or their sportswriters were. I never heard a single suggestion all that offseason that they were "trying to deal him" which implies a player is being actively shopped, as opposed to, say, considering all offers on him and finding out if you can find one that improves the team.

That said, I'm very glad we did not deal Thomas. Rask would have had a very good year and we probably have still made third seed, but Thomas is a very special guy, huge character guy, huge team leader, huge work ethic, and that on top of being one of the most talented goalies in the league.

I don't mean to rub it in too much, but those who watched Thomas and knew what they were seeing wouldn't have been prepared to bet against him coming back. He's the hardest worker I've ever seen, and you underestimate him at your peril.

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05-06-2011, 10:49 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
As I've said....weigh the wise moves of going into the reg season and playoffs with Leighton, Boosh and a rookie as well as giving Leighton his contract, signing Shelley and Zherdev and even Carcillo..and then doubling down by trading Gagne for Walker. I would have taken all the overblown risk of Thomas over all those failure moves that amounted to 7M and multiple years of cap hits with Shelley and Walker in particular.
You say this as if that was our only option. There were other solid goalies (like Chris Mason) that we could have put in a bid on. We could have put ourselves in a position to acquire a guy we should have acquired a year ago (Roloson). So on, and so forth. It isn't a choice between Thomas and Leighton.

You also like minimizing the risk with Thomas. Lets say they cut the Gagne for Thomas deal and Thomas' hip issue turns into a chronic issue that hinders his play.

Then what do you do? You've just acquired 5M in cap space that is a leech on your roster. You can pretty much kiss JVR goodbye at that point. This was also in advance of the contracts to Carter and Giroux, which further complicated adding such a large cap hit past this season.

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05-06-2011, 10:50 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
Bruins fan daring to show his face.

The Bruins were never as anxious to get rid of Thomas as their fans or their sportswriters were. I never heard a single suggestion all that offseason that they were "trying to deal him" which implies a player is being actively shopped, as opposed to, say, considering all offers on him and finding out if you can find one that improves the team.

That said, I'm very glad we did not deal Thomas. Rask would have had a very good year and we probably have still made third seed, but Thomas is a very special guy, huge character guy, huge team leader, huge work ethic, and that on top of being one of the most talented goalies in the league.

I don't mean to rub it in too much, but those who watched Thomas and knew what they were seeing wouldn't have been prepared to bet against him coming back. He's the hardest worker I've ever seen, and you underestimate him at your peril.
It was WIDELY reported that they were willing to move him at the draft. The biggest problem was that Thomas wasn't that keen to waive his NTC, which severely infringed on the actual reality of them moving him.

Either way, they had EVERY reason in the world to minimize his health concerns last summer.

And injuries when you're 35... are not something you can necessarily come back from with ease no matter how hard you work.

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05-06-2011, 10:53 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
I don't mean to rub it in too much, but those who watched Thomas and knew what they were seeing wouldn't have been prepared to bet against him coming back. He's the hardest worker I've ever seen, and you underestimate him at your peril.
Thanks..good point....I think when the rumors were going around about the Flyers having interest..it was said that Holmgren loved the guys leadership and work ethic. I guess he didn't love it enough to attempt to get him whether Boston was really willing to give him up or not. Given their cap issues it seemed they were....Boston did a nice job assembling their team for the playoffs despite Thomas being such a cap anchor..wish our GM was a smart.

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05-06-2011, 10:58 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Thanks..good point....I think when the rumors were going around about the Flyers having interest..it was said that Holmgren loved the guys leadership and work ethic. I guess he didn't love it enough to attempt to get him whether Boston was really willing to give him up or not. Given their cap issues it seemed they were....Boston did a nice job assembling their team for the playoffs despite Thomas being such a cap anchor..wish our GM was a smart.
Thomas was only ever a cap anchor in Boston if you presume that Rask is the starting goaltender. Fans that assumed that underestimated Thomas . I for one knew better. I didn't see this year from him, but I knew that if he got a chance to start he'd be a #1. He hasn't failed to be a true #1 since the Dave Lewis error.

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05-06-2011, 10:59 PM
  #284
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IIRC: Holmgren said pick a team, and Simon chose TB because he wanted to play with Vinny. None of this is relevant. Coulda, woulda, shoulda... didn't happen. Congrats to Thomas he played one hell of a series.

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05-06-2011, 11:16 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan808 View Post
IIRC: Holmgren said pick a team, and Simon chose TB because he wanted to play with Vinny. None of this is relevant. Coulda, woulda, shoulda... didn't happen. Congrats to Thomas he played one hell of a series.
Well, yes, Gagne was not going to Boston.

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05-07-2011, 07:56 AM
  #286
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That doesn't mean something couldn't have gotten done around another Flyers roster player.

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05-07-2011, 08:01 AM
  #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan808 View Post
IIRC: Holmgren said pick a team, and Simon chose TB because he wanted to play with Vinny. None of this is relevant. Coulda, woulda, shoulda... didn't happen. Congrats to Thomas he played one hell of a series.
I believe Gagne talked with Tampa before being traded there, so it wasn't as clean cut as that.


If he knew where he was being traded to, he only needed to waive his NTC for one team. There was at least 10 teams he talked to.

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05-07-2011, 09:50 AM
  #288
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I'm totally with Jester here. I cannot STAND the hindsight talk. No one is denying Tim Thomas is a good goalie who had an amazing year. It doesn't change the fact that there was incredible risk in trading for him during the offseason, and I would have been pissed if it happened.

The factors surrounding an acquisition when it is made do not change due to the player's play after the fact. I thought trading for Thomas would have been terrible (due to risk), even though he's been amazing the idea surrounding NOT acquiring him however, was still valid. Just as I thought the Versteeg trade was a good one, but he's been crappy. The idea surrounding acquiring him however, was still valid.

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05-07-2011, 10:40 AM
  #289
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At the time we were cap crunched, almost no one wanted Gagne gone, and Tim Thomas was an old man out with an injury making 4mil. No one expected him to come back and have a Vezina year.

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05-07-2011, 11:04 AM
  #290
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At the time we were cap crunched, almost no one wanted Gagne gone, and Tim Thomas was an old man out with an injury making 4mil. No one expected him to come back and have a Vezina year.




I am ashamed to say this is exactly how I felt. Thomas probably would have helped our room immensely as well.

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05-07-2011, 11:12 AM
  #291
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I am ashamed to say this is exactly how I felt. Thomas probably would have helped our room immensely as well.
I as well.

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05-07-2011, 12:12 PM
  #292
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I am ashamed to say this is exactly how I felt. Thomas probably would have helped our room immensely as well.
It's how pretty much everyone felt, if you check posts back then you'll see a million trade threads proposing Thomas to the Flyers...all of which we responded to with "Yeah we're not paying 4mil for a questionable old man". At the time it made sense in that respect, was a big risk. Personally I still think we should have made a push for Roloson, that seemed more realistic at the time.

The hindsight game is really a road not worth traveling, unless of course you want to feel like ****. It's akin to fretting over what you could have done differently with that girl that got away.

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05-07-2011, 03:59 PM
  #293
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No one should feel bad about it. Everyone had reasonable concerns. Those concerns don't become invalid just because he played well. Would he have helped us? Of course, but it was a lot to bank on.

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06-06-2011, 11:08 AM
  #294
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Gormley: Thomas makes sense for the Flyers, if they can work the deal

Well summer of 2010 redux.......Gormley says Boston wanted Carter which is plausible although IMO inquiring about a player like Carter and getting a deal done without him are two separate things. Of course, teams are going to inquire about Carter but obviously he's going to command more and should. I think the Flyers could have gotten Thomas for much less if they really wanted to take the risk..they obviously decided it wasn't worth the risk and we see how that has turned out.

Thomas is still obviously a good option but at the right price...we'll see.

Quote:
The Flyers' goaltender search can be found with a simple remote click.

His name is Tim Thomas and he is still kicking away pucks for the Boston Bruins at age 37.

Plain and simple, Thomas is the right goalie at the right time.

Despite his advanced age, he has considerable tread on his tires, having played just 319 games in an NHL career that didn't really begin until age 30.

At 5-foot-11, 201 pounds, he's a physical marvel, missing just six games due to injury in his late-blooming career.

His numbers speak for themselves. Thomas led the NHL with a 2.00 goals-against average and a .938 save percentage, the highest save percentage since the NHL began keeping records in 1982. He's been equally dominant in the postseason, entering Saturday night's Game 2 in Vancouver with a 2.23 GAA and .931 save percentage and a pair of shutouts.

What will it take to get him?

A year ago, Thomas was considered an aging, overpriced backup with three years and $15 million on his contract. The Flyers showed interest, but the Bruins demanded Jeff Carter in return. Paul Holmgren smartly refused and went with Michael Leighton and Brian Boucher.

While Thomas' stock has risen, Carter's production has dropped dramatically since his breakout 46-goal, 84-point season in 2008-09. He's averaged 34 goals and 64 points the past two seasons and has missed 16 of the Flyers' last 34 playoff games with injuries.

http://www.delawareonline.com/articl...|text|Sports|s

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06-06-2011, 11:18 AM
  #295
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Carter's production has dropped "dramatically"? Scoring around the league has gone down... he's remained one of the most consistent goal scorers.

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06-06-2011, 11:34 AM
  #296
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Gormley had been doing so well this offseason too...

Carter for Thomas would reach new levels of idiocy for Homer.

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06-06-2011, 11:46 AM
  #297
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I am trying to figure out if Gormley was being sarcastic in that paragraph about the Bruins wanting Carter and Holmgren saying no.

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06-06-2011, 12:06 PM
  #298
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I would have taken the risk on Thomas for Gagne in a heartbeat. Said it at the time and still think it. I understand what Jester is saying and he is right, there was plenty of risk....especially for years 2 and 3. However, in year 1 of the deal we have the same team we did this year with goalies of Thomas + Boucher with Bob in the minors (eligible for callups). Not very risky.

Year 2 and 3 are riskier as we had to sign Carter and Giroux and with Thomas on the books that becomes trickier than it was this year. But, why wouldn't you bring in Thomas with a GREAT shot at winning the cup?

If his hip was toast, then he goes the way of Lappy for a couple of years and we spend over the cap (business as usual).

Gagne for Thomas last summer would have been a cup for us this year. I truly believe that. Oh well, not like cups are hard to come by........right?

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06-06-2011, 12:12 PM
  #299
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I
Gagne for Thomas last summer would have been a cup for us this year. I truly believe that. Oh well, not like cups are hard to come by........right?
I dont think we were winning anything this year with our injuries. Even as good as Thomas is he can only do so much if half the teams best players are hurt.

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06-06-2011, 12:22 PM
  #300
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I dont think we were winning anything this year with our injuries. Even as good as Thomas is he can only do so much if half the teams best players are hurt.
Maybe yes, maybe no. Every team has major injuries, and the better ones overcome them. The Penguins made the playoffs without Crosby and Malkin. And the Canucks played through that rash of Dman injuries. Injuries contributed to the Flyers' crash-and-burn, but they were only part of the picture.

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