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Benoit Pouliot: not tendered qualifying offer (June 27)

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Old
05-17-2011, 02:26 PM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
So not scoring in 2+ months or 27 games is not justification for benching a player(especially when his calling card is offense)???

No but leaving a relatively youthful player on a 3/4 line and asking him to produce within the 8-10 minute leash, without making ANY errors (or you go to the Press Box) just might be enough to blow ANY confidence he has... Espescially if the talk is true that Benny is hard on himself as it is.

He might have had issues of scoring... But does anyone remember that night in Minnesota when he was a +4 with 3 assists.. He played 12 minutes that night... How does he get rewarded? 2 10 minute games, followed by a couple below 10... In fact, he only saw MORE than 10 minutes a game 3 times after that. And was NEVER a + player again.
Where did he go wrong?


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05-17-2011, 02:47 PM
  #177
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Let's see if Gauthier offers him a contract or not. The fact that nothing has been announced suggests that it could go either way.

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05-17-2011, 03:00 PM
  #178
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No but leaving a relatively youthful player on a 3/4 line and asking him to produce within the 8-10 minute leash, without making ANY errors (or you go to the Press Box) just might be enough to blow ANY confidence he has... Espescially if the talk is true that Benny is hard on himself as it is.

He might have had issues of scoring... But does anyone remember that night in Minnesota when he was a +4 with 3 assists.. He played 12 minutes that night... How does he get rewarded? 2 10 minute games, followed by a couple below 10... In fact, he only saw MORE than 10 minutes a game 3 times after that. And was NEVER a + player again.
Where did he go wrong?
That's what most young players get, unless you are Ovechkin or Crosby you start out on the 3rd or 4th line until you earn more ice time. You seem to think he is ENTITLED to play more even if his on ice play doesn't justify it.

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Let's see if Gauthier offers him a contract or not. The fact that nothing has been announced suggests that it could go either way.
They can offer him a contract to maintain their rights then trade him.

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05-17-2011, 04:56 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
That's what most young players get, unless you are Ovechkin or Crosby you start out on the 3rd or 4th line until you earn more ice time. You seem to think he is ENTITLED to play more even if his on ice play doesn't justify it.
No... I just think there are different methods to sending messages. Esp. in Hockey Town Montreal, where these guys lives are under the microscope 24-7. We all know they chose this life, however I think we sometimes get a little too distant to the human aspect of these guys.

I can understand if Benny's pissed, or Jacques is frustrated, or Scott is depressed, or whatever...

I dont know how much hockey some played out there... But if you dont think off-ice issues can effect the best of them... I suggest reading 'Playing with Fire' by Thoeren Fleury, and 'The Game' by our own Ken Dryden...
If we can see that he's not responding to 10 minutes of sheet a night, and is what I can say 'playing down'... I am sure there is more going on than we know of.
Benny was checked out of Montreal well before the rest of his teammates... That says something to me.
More is going on than what his on ice performance indicates.

Something fell off between Martin/Pouliot after he got here, his first injury to now. Martin has not given Pouliot any shred of the same confidence except in very limited blips on the radar. Its funny how some say that Benoit is all to blame... Sometimes, blame could be had on both sides.

It's not as if we havent heard consistently by FORMER habs about the lack of communication between the side of management vs the side of players.

But if Im Benny Pouliot.. the writing was pretty loud and clear to me. IMO JM was not happy with him for the majority of the entire season. Off Ice conditioning maybe?

I hope that this can be worked out between the club, & Benny. He's a styled player that we can definately use when he's on his on game.

I do know that JM is the one who advocated the arrival of Pouliot. Saying that he knows him from all the camps and whatnot. What if JM knows what makes Benny tick?
What if, in order to get Benny to work for you... you have to make him feel like you dont believe in him anymore... I mean, we all know about his tragic Junior story, but the one thing that isnt heavily discussed was that Benoit Pouliot exploded to 4th overall because he was playing against adversity... He desperately wanted to have his father watch him play at the highest level he could get too... That was the OHL.

From what I understand about Benoit, is that he still sort of lives off that Junior career he had. His DUI kind of showed that kind of philosophy was around him.
Maybe, JM has a plan to get Benoit to perform. Because really, Benny hasnt been tested to heavily from his draft year to now.
This is a MAJOR test, IMO I guess we'll wait and see how Benoit responds.

I hope it's something to this effect, cause otherwise, Benoit Pouliot was a bit short changed otherwise.

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05-17-2011, 07:10 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Pouliot was terrible the last 6 weeks and played himself into the press box, that's a dillusional post if I ever read one.

I have posted this before.

Benny was scoring points and goals on the line with White and DD. They were one of the most productive lines in Montreal.

On Feb 15, Pouliot scored a goal against the Sabres, had 16 minutes TOI and was a +1.

On Feb 17, Pouliot had 15 minutes TOI against the Oilers, 20 minutes of PIM for his fight with Horcoff.

On Feb 20, against the Flames in the terrible outside game, obviously starting to enter the JM doghouse, Pouliot only had 10 minutes TOI.

And then the infamous game against the Canucks on Feb 22, Pouliot assisted on a DD goal in the first period. At 18:00 of the second period, Pouliot was assessed a questionable interference penalty. At 19:23 of the second period, Halpern took a hooking penalty. The Canucks scored at 1:06 of the third period while Halpern was still in the box.

Halpern went on to play the rest of the game. Pouliot did not play a single shift (neither did DD) in the third and ended the game with 1 Assist and 4:56 minutes of TOI.

Pouliot never scored another goal the rest of the season and his ice time was consistently below 10 minutes per game.


That benching for that penalty simply destroyed Pouliot's confidence. It was at this time that he forgot how to skate. He was ineffective.

JM is the coach. I am not. JM appeared to punish Benny for fighting Horcoff by reducing his ice time in the next game. He then banished Pouliot to permanent doghouse residence for taking an interference penalty against the Canucks.

I can say without a doubt that Pouliot, who had 17 goals at this time and was clicking with DD and White, would have continued his goal scoring and points production had he not been punished for fighting and taking a penalty by having his ice time slashed.

JM effectively neutered Pouliot as a scoring threat for the rest of the season and the unintended consequence was that he also neutered Desharnais by reducing his ice time as well with his brain dead way of managing Pouliot.

JM was the bigger flop. And we could have used a confident and scoring Pouliot against the Bruins when goals were a rare commodity.

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Old
05-18-2011, 12:25 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
What veteran players are you talking about? Pouliot is our worst defensive forward and the one that makes the most turnovers in the neutral zone, he is also up there as the most inconsistant player on the team.
Really? Based on what exactly? Kostitsyn was the forward with the most turnovers this season with 38. Cammalleri had 31, Gomez 28 and Eller 25. Those players were models of consistency this season, weren't they?!? Pouliot had... 14 turnovers all year!

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Not sure how he qualifies as a "young" player, he'll be 25 before opening night and has 5 pro years under his belt, we're not talking about a 20 year old right out of junior.
Allow me to add to this: Pouliot was 24 this year (and he'll be 30 in about 5 years, so what?) . And you say 5 years pro years experience? NHL years is what counts as it's a huge step from the AHL to the NHL.

2006-07: 3 games
2007-08: 11 games
2008-09: 37 games
2009-10: 53 games
2010-11: 79 games

Is THAT what you call 5 years experience? Really???

The fact is that the guy is young and still learning. I'm not taking any blame away from him for his inconsistency. But I am certainly saying that he needs to play, he needs to be put out there, be allowed to make mistakes like the vets are, in order to learn and gain that experience if we want him to succeed. Otherwise, he'll turn into another Ribeiro, Ryder, Sergei and D'Agostini and have success elsewhere.

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06-06-2011, 01:50 PM
  #182
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Pouliot was one of my favorite prospects, it's been terrible watching his ice-time dropping through out the year. Seeing a guy like Darche in the top 6 while Pouliot is getting 8 minutes per game.

Do they qualify him? If they do, do they send him to the AHL? What are the chances we see Pouliot not only on the roster but in a top 9 role? Seems to be Martin doesn't even want him taking up the roster spot.

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06-06-2011, 02:04 PM
  #183
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He's still young enough to turn it around, but the clock is ticking.

He's not misunderstood. He was drafted high due to his size, speed, and immense talent. We've all seen it from him in spurts, we know its there.

But yes, as of right now, he's a flop. He's got maybe one more season to find himself in montreal, and if that doesnt work, I suspect another team will take a chance on him just because of the tantalizing tools that he possesses.

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06-06-2011, 02:10 PM
  #184
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He's still young enough to turn it around, but the clock is ticking.

He's not misunderstood. He was drafted high due to his size, speed, and immense talent. We've all seen it from him in spurts, we know its there.

But yes, as of right now, he's a flop. He's got maybe one more season to find himself in montreal, and if that doesnt work, I suspect another team will take a chance on him just because of the tantalizing tools that he possesses.
lol give me a break.. its not like he teared up the OHL..

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06-06-2011, 02:21 PM
  #185
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lol give me a break.. its not like he teared up the OHL..
I'm not talking about whether he tore up that league or not. That's something you brought up, not me. I'm talking about his physical talent.

He's a big guy with speed, and a big shot, he's got the ability to beat people one on one. The goal on maf this season screams out talent.

He also showed in his stretch of 20 games after the deal that he can absolutely score in this league with that talent and supposedly a little confidence and fire. He even looked decent for a while when lined up with darche and desharnais in a more secondary role. That's the problem though... we can only talk about small positive stretches thus far in his career.

Look, there are many flaws to his game, but you'll never convince me that its due to a lack of talent.

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06-06-2011, 03:13 PM
  #186
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I'm not talking about whether he tore up that league or not. That's something you brought up, not me. I'm talking about his physical talent.

He's a big guy with speed, and a big shot, he's got the ability to beat people one on one. The goal on maf this season screams out talent.

He also showed in his stretch of 20 games after the deal that he can absolutely score in this league with that talent and supposedly a little confidence and fire. He even looked decent for a while when lined up with darche and desharnais in a more secondary role. That's the problem though... we can only talk about small positive stretches thus far in his career.

Look, there are many flaws to his game, but you'll never convince me that its due to a lack of talent.
First he is a tall guy but isnt big at all, he lacks strength and admitted himself that he couldnt add more weight to his frame (unless he gets fat).. We can discuss about his overall skills till tommorow morning but personally I dont see a guy being able to play a north south type of game, I see a guy not reacting well when pressured by the opponents, cant work well in restraint spaces and when it becomes physical.. I see a guy easy to play against, not able to protect and control the puck effectively.. What I see in Pouliot is a guy having a nice reach and some nice hands, a good shot too (when he has room and time to fire it) and thats why he has been drafted so high, so you can see the potential package but not only he never adressed his weakness, he also displayed very little flashes of brillance not using enough what are supposed to be his strengths, rarely you will see him use his tools to deke a player or make solid plays, its just not working.. And as I said, its not like the kid teared up the CHL and knows he can be a dominant player, he never did it, his reputaton has always been based on potential only..

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06-06-2011, 03:39 PM
  #187
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Misunderstood, no. But, seems like he has LaroucheDionneSamsonovitis. IE, looks like he's on an island alone - that he doesn't understand the concepts of team and hard work.

Too many stupid, lazy, undisciplined penalties for my liking. That rekes of selfishness.

No doubt he's got the skill set to be a very good offensive player. It's all up to him to get catch his heart and his head up to his physical talent.

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06-06-2011, 05:17 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
First he is a tall guy but isnt big at all, he lacks strength and admitted himself that he couldnt add more weight to his frame (unless he gets fat).. We can discuss about his overall skills till tommorow morning but personally I dont see a guy being able to play a north south type of game, I see a guy not reacting well when pressured by the opponents, cant work well in restraint spaces and when it becomes physical.. I see a guy easy to play against, not able to protect and control the puck effectively.. What I see in Pouliot is a guy having a nice reach and some nice hands, a good shot too (when he has room and time to fire it) and thats why he has been drafted so high, so you can see the potential package but not only he never adressed his weakness, he also displayed very little flashes of brillance not using enough what are supposed to be his strengths, rarely you will see him use his tools to deke a player or make solid plays, its just not working.. And as I said, its not like the kid teared up the CHL and knows he can be a dominant player, he never did it, his reputaton has always been based on potential only..
Honestly, there's not much difference in his frame than max pacioretty. They also have a similar skating stride. What I will say is that pouliot has a much bigger issue with balance.

I guess I have to say again that pouliot has many flaws so we dont need to argue about that. My point is that based on his talent, speed, and size alone, he will get another chance with montreal and at least another chance with a different organization, before he hits the end of the line.

If you ask me, I think pouliot's biggest issue is his psyche. When he played his first 20 games or so for montreal, I saw a rejuvenated kid who felt good about himself and went on a torrid goal scoring streak. All of a sudden, when the puck stopped going in, he was a total non factor and a shadow of his former self. He was a guy who looked like he lost all confidence. He also faded quite dramatically last season down the stretch. Perhaps he needs to work on finding more of an even keel before the other issues start falling into place.

I hope he "gets it" eventually. It would be a shame to see such a wasted talent.


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06-08-2011, 11:15 AM
  #189
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Pouliot has an impressive shot. If only he would be more focused on being physical, he might occasionally create more room for himself so that he get that shot off more frequently. Not asking him to drill people, just be more involved without getting fingered for dummy penalties.

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06-08-2011, 11:25 AM
  #190
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Pouliot has an impressive shot. If only he would be more focused on being physical, he might occasionally create more room for himself so that he get that shot off more frequently. Not asking him to drill people, just be more involved without getting fingered for dummy penalties.
He will fall on the ice even more if he's more involved

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06-08-2011, 11:56 AM
  #191
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No balance, no drive, no consistency to his game, confidence as fragile as an origami swan. Maybe that could be his nickname.

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06-08-2011, 12:06 PM
  #192
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Hopefully we can salvage a pick for him...but i can't imagine him returning to Montreal next season.

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06-08-2011, 03:17 PM
  #193
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Pouliot could become the next D'Agostini or S.K. or Lats under a new sky...and a new coach.

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06-08-2011, 03:35 PM
  #194
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I dont want to see Pouliot leave yet. IMO he's an awesome insurance player. Big and talented, he can provide a third line game very well, all the while laying with talented centermen.

Des/Eller are going to need snipers around them... Kost, and pouliot, are both guys who use the body, and are talented guys known to produce.

3 very good scoring lines would be a great way to develop a stronger edge on the competition. Furthermore, we have options in case of injuries to the upper lines.

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06-08-2011, 10:49 PM
  #195
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So can you explain to us how Scott Gomez earned his 20 minutes per game this year?
Scott Gomez earned it with a solid 10 year career. Yes, he was having a bad season, but at least he was still back checking and not dogging it like Pouliot.

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Pouliot could become the next D'Agostini or S.K. or Lats under a new sky...and a new coach.
He has played under 3 NHL coaches, 2 of them legends, and he has sucked under all 3.

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06-08-2011, 10:51 PM
  #196
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Pouliot could become the next D'Agostini or S.K. or Lats under a new sky...and a new coach.
where in swiss league

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06-08-2011, 10:56 PM
  #197
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I have posted this before.

Benny was scoring points and goals on the line with White and DD. They were one of the most productive lines in Montreal.

On Feb 15, Pouliot scored a goal against the Sabres, had 16 minutes TOI and was a +1.

On Feb 17, Pouliot had 15 minutes TOI against the Oilers, 20 minutes of PIM for his fight with Horcoff.

On Feb 20, against the Flames in the terrible outside game, obviously starting to enter the JM doghouse, Pouliot only had 10 minutes TOI.

And then the infamous game against the Canucks on Feb 22, Pouliot assisted on a DD goal in the first period. At 18:00 of the second period, Pouliot was assessed a questionable interference penalty. At 19:23 of the second period, Halpern took a hooking penalty. The Canucks scored at 1:06 of the third period while Halpern was still in the box.

Halpern went on to play the rest of the game. Pouliot did not play a single shift (neither did DD) in the third and ended the game with 1 Assist and 4:56 minutes of TOI.

Pouliot never scored another goal the rest of the season and his ice time was consistently below 10 minutes per game.


That benching for that penalty simply destroyed Pouliot's confidence. It was at this time that he forgot how to skate. He was ineffective.

JM is the coach. I am not. JM appeared to punish Benny for fighting Horcoff by reducing his ice time in the next game. He then banished Pouliot to permanent doghouse residence for taking an interference penalty against the Canucks.

I can say without a doubt that Pouliot, who had 17 goals at this time and was clicking with DD and White, would have continued his goal scoring and points production had he not been punished for fighting and taking a penalty by having his ice time slashed.

JM effectively neutered Pouliot as a scoring threat for the rest of the season and the unintended consequence was that he also neutered Desharnais by reducing his ice time as well with his brain dead way of managing Pouliot.

JM was the bigger flop. And we could have used a confident and scoring Pouliot against the Bruins when goals were a rare commodity.
If Pouliot needs to be coddled like a baby so that he might score goals then he wasn't going to help us against Boston. The players that Martin developed in Ottawa such as Alfredsson, Redden, Phillips, and Hossa all worked out pretty good. Pouliot just doesn't get it. He is lazy, selfish and is simply only in hockey to collect a paycheck. A disgrace to everybody who has ever played the game with pride.

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06-08-2011, 11:01 PM
  #198
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Pouliot IS big. Yeah he seems taller than wide, but I generally remember him finishing his check and accepting them just fine. In fact the only time he falls is when he's reaching for a puck or just going too fast to control himself.

People forget that he was scoring at a very good rate up until a point. Then lines changed. Then more injuries, more line changes. He got very little ice time but his scoring rate was amongst the highest on the team. If I were to chose between Gionta blazing down the wing vs Pouliot, I would go with Benny. I <3 Gio, but he just gets so many chances, hence goals (of course he works his ass off for those chances). I don't think Pouliot has really disappointed. If he was a top six with the right linemates or rather if we roller a line with him, eller, dd more often, they'd rack up points IF they weren't punished disproportionately to the other lines IF they got scored on.

I've said it all season, the guys has really rare slick hands and some pretty great moves stride-wise. He falls on his butt, but he also can create space when there is none. I really like him and AK, but I fear people don't have the patience to stay the course.

Also, can you really hate on a guy who pounded a bruin who (yes it's true), came after him? specially at this time of the year?

As for JM, the more these playoffs go on (finals actually), the more I appreciate JM's use of what we have. If you look at how we play, when our offensive players are in the lineup (Patches, Markov) we actually play more offensively. If Van played our system in the N zone, they would not be getting pounded. sorry, getting OT

I like Pouliot.

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06-08-2011, 11:03 PM
  #199
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If Pouliot needs to be coddled like a baby so that he might score goals then he wasn't going to help us against Boston. The players that Martin developed in Ottawa such as Alfredsson, Redden, Phillips, and Hossa all worked out pretty good. Pouliot just doesn't get it. He is lazy, selfish and is simply only in hockey to collect a paycheck. A disgrace to everybody who has ever played the game with pride.
couldn't disagree more. He showed a lot of heart this year and was not lazy. Is cammy lazy cuz he conserves energy so that he can intercept a pass and go to the right places? The last sentence. A little harsh.

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06-08-2011, 11:07 PM
  #200
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couldn't disagree more. He showed a lot of heart this year and was not lazy. Is cammy lazy cuz he conserves energy so that he can intercept a pass and go to the right places? The last sentence. A little harsh.
There is a difference between playing smart and being lazy. Pouliot is lazy. He's too lazy to backcheck so he hooks or trips the guy down and puts the team at a disadvantage. He has all the physical tools to succeed, so the ONLY thing stopping from succeeding is his lack of heart and lazy attitude. It sickens me to the core knowing there are guys like Saku Koivu out there who wear their heart on their sleeve and make things happen despite obvious physical limitations, and then you see Pouliot with every advantage a player could ever ask for looking like he's in a wheelchair on the ice.

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