HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

(from summer 2010) Gagne for Tim Thomas

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-06-2011, 12:44 PM
  #301
GoneFullHextall
Fire Berube
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 31,844
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Maybe yes, maybe no. Every team has major injuries, and the better ones overcome them. The Penguins made the playoffs without Crosby and Malkin. And the Canucks played through that rash of Dman injuries. Injuries contributed to the Flyers' crash-and-burn, but they were only part of the picture.
they were a good part of the picture. Vancouvers best players got healthy at the right time. They did have injuries earlier in the season but were relatively free of serious injuries the 2nd half the year minus Malhotra of course.
Pittsburgh made the playoffs but in the end not having their best players cost them. Same can be said for the Flyers. We probably should of lost to Buffalo and would have if Miller didnt give up that horrific goal to Hartnell. Injuries played a good part in our embarassing performance against Boston.

GoneFullHextall is offline  
Old
06-06-2011, 12:45 PM
  #302
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
I would have taken the risk on Thomas for Gagne in a heartbeat. Said it at the time and still think it. I understand what Jester is saying and he is right, there was plenty of risk....especially for years 2 and 3. However, in year 1 of the deal we have the same team we did this year with goalies of Thomas + Boucher with Bob in the minors (eligible for callups). Not very risky.

Year 2 and 3 are riskier as we had to sign Carter and Giroux and with Thomas on the books that becomes trickier than it was this year. But, why wouldn't you bring in Thomas with a GREAT shot at winning the cup?

If his hip was toast, then he goes the way of Lappy for a couple of years and we spend over the cap (business as usual).

Gagne for Thomas last summer would have been a cup for us this year. I truly believe that. Oh well, not like cups are hard to come by........right?
It's not that easy to LTIR 35+ guys. For example, Lappy may not be on LTIR next season if the NHL doesn't buy that he's actually trying to come back.

Jester is offline  
Old
06-06-2011, 01:29 PM
  #303
Ghost of Downie*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,959
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
It's not that easy to LTIR 35+ guys. For example, Lappy may not be on LTIR next season if the NHL doesn't buy that he's actually trying to come back.
Plus having an injured Lappy and an injured Thomas would essentially kill our ability to go over the cap in the offseason.

Ghost of Downie* is offline  
Old
06-06-2011, 02:08 PM
  #304
VanSciver
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,302
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost of Downie View Post
Plus having an injured Lappy and an injured Thomas would essentially kill our ability to go over the cap in the offseason.
How so?

VanSciver is offline  
Old
06-06-2011, 02:10 PM
  #305
VanSciver
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,302
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
It's not that easy to LTIR 35+ guys. For example, Lappy may not be on LTIR next season if the NHL doesn't buy that he's actually trying to come back.
As long as he isn't medically cleared to play due to his concussion issue, it shouldn't be a problem.

VanSciver is offline  
Old
06-06-2011, 02:20 PM
  #306
tuckrr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,567
vCash: 500
This is why i love Meltzer

tuckrr is offline  
Old
06-06-2011, 02:40 PM
  #307
Vikke
FHM 13 researcher
 
Vikke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bustoville
Country: Sweden
Posts: 12,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
How so?
Having a player on the IR doesn't remove his cap hit.
That's why.

Vikke is online now  
Old
06-06-2011, 03:02 PM
  #308
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 10,760
vCash: 500
Ha ha ha..was looking back on the posts..sure enough Holmgren did do something out in left field by signing Leighton (not to mention the other detritus with Walker, Shelley etc) and going with Boosh and Leighton but getting a half season unexpected reprieve from Bob...can't wait to see what he does this summer if anything...

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...&postcount=130


Below is from last summer....Panaccio of course is the source...but I'm sure Boston and the Flyers spoke as Gormely suggests. But again..Carter was no way an option..at least not for Thomas. LA probably wanted him too but they would have had to give more..

Quote:
LOS ANGELES – Goalie Tim Thomas is 36 years old and would cost $5 million a year in cap space, “if” someone decided to make a trade with Boston.

Sources at the Board of Governors confirmed on Thursday that Flyers general manager Paul Holmgren and Boston’s Peter Chiarelli have spoken about the netminder, who has three years left on his contract and has been replaced as a starter by Tuukka Rask.

Chiarelli is trying hard to unload Thomas and has spoken to a number of clubs. Neither Holmgren nor Chiarelli would comment.

Flyers’ sources say, however, they consider Thomas “too expensive,” despite his 2.56 goals-against average and .915 save percentage in 43 games last season.

Outside sources say, however, the Flyers are willing to move two players “if” they decide to go the Thomas route and “if” it’s the right players to move. Those sources added the only untouchable Flyers are Mike Richards and Jeff Carter.

That said, these sources have the impression that, in the end, the Flyers may end up re-signing Michael Leighton.

There were rumors here this week that the Flyers and Los Angeles have talked about acquiring one of two goalies: Jonathan Quick or Jonathan Bernier. The Kings want Carter, but again, the Flyers won’t offer him.

Earlier on Thursday, sources said the Flyers were not close on reaching an agreement with soon-to-be unrestricted free agent defenseman Dan Hamhuis, who they traded for over the weekend.

Hamhuis’ agent, Wade Arnott, is believed to be seeking a four-year deal worth at least $16 million.

“They may have to move [Braydon] Coburn to get the Hamhuis deal done,” one NHL executive said

http://www.csnphilly.com/06/24/10/So...260370&feedID=

FreshPerspective is offline  
Old
06-06-2011, 03:53 PM
  #309
VanSciver
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,302
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikke View Post
Having a player on the IR doesn't remove his cap hit.
That's why.
A player who was on LTIR the entire Season, and is expected to be on LTIR the next entire Season, doesn't have to be accounted for on the Cap during the off season.

VanSciver is offline  
Old
06-06-2011, 03:54 PM
  #310
Ghost of Downie*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,959
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
How so?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikke View Post
Having a player on the IR doesn't remove his cap hit.
That's why.
Yeah, what Vikke said. LTIR doesn't exist in the offseason, thus the 10%-over rule Thomas and Lappy would add up to about $6.1 Million, which, when added to Leighton, Walker, and maybe Shelley existing, means that you will actually have to be well UNDER the probable cap (around $62-63 Million).

Thomas had a fantastic season, and I wish we had traded for him, but not pulling the trigger was very understandable, especially if the asking price was Carter.

Ghost of Downie* is offline  
Old
06-06-2011, 04:06 PM
  #311
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 10,760
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost of Downie View Post
Yeah, what Vikke said. LTIR doesn't exist in the offseason, thus the 10%-over rule Thomas and Lappy would add up to about $6.1 Million, which, when added to Leighton, Walker, and maybe Shelley existing, means that you will actually have to be well UNDER the probable cap (around $62-63 Million).

Thomas had a fantastic season, and I wish we had traded for him, but not pulling the trigger was very understandable, especially if the asking price was Carter.
Again they asked for Carter I'm sure..it's never hurts to ask right? Doesn't mean a trade was out of realm of possibility..especially given all the risk everybody was worried about although from the beginning I happened to think it was overblown and especially considering all the risk Holmgren ultimately took on with Leighton, Shelley, Walker and to an extent Carcillo and Zherdev. The added value of all those players in the playoffs was pretty much negligible....obviously Thomas' value in the playoffs this year is anything but. Again..yes hindsight is 20/20 but you're rewarded and paid for foresight. Anyway....let's see what Holmgren's foresight involves this summer...he undershot last year..this year he'll probably overshoot.

FreshPerspective is offline  
Old
06-06-2011, 04:09 PM
  #312
Ghost of Downie*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,959
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Again they asked for Carter I'm sure..it's never hurts to ask right? Doesn't mean a trade was out of realm of possibility..especially given all the risk everybody was worried about although from the beginning I happened to think it was overblown and especially considering all the risk Holmgren ultimately took on with Leighton, Shelley, Walker and to an extent Carcillo and Zherdev. The added value of all those players in the playoffs was pretty much negligible....obviously Thomas' value in the playoffs this year is anything but. Again..yes hindsight is 20/20 but you're rewarded and paid for foresight. Anyway....let's see what Holmgren's foresight involves this summer...he undershot last year..this year he'll probably overshoot.
Agreed on this note. I'm not saying that Carter for Thomas was the final deal and Homer had to take it or leave it, but it would've taken some guts to make a trade for him. I think we can all agree that Holmgren definitely did not do the right thing in resigning Leighton and got lucky with Bob falling into his lap.

Ghost of Downie* is offline  
Old
06-06-2011, 04:17 PM
  #313
KimiFerrari
Messi Is God
 
KimiFerrari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Montreal, Qc
Country: Argentina
Posts: 3,818
vCash: 500
"Hindsight is always 20/20"

- Dave Mustaine.

KimiFerrari is offline  
Old
06-06-2011, 04:59 PM
  #314
VanSciver
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,302
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost of Downie View Post
Yeah, what Vikke said. LTIR doesn't exist in the offseason, thus the 10%-over rule Thomas and Lappy would add up to about $6.1 Million, which, when added to Leighton, Walker, and maybe Shelley existing, means that you will actually have to be well UNDER the probable cap (around $62-63 Million).
A player who was on LTIR the entire Season, and is expected to be on LTIR the next entire Season, doesn't have to be accounted for on the Cap during the off season.

Feel free to Email Matthew Weust for clarification at capgeek.

VanSciver is offline  
Old
06-06-2011, 05:07 PM
  #315
Vikke
FHM 13 researcher
 
Vikke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bustoville
Country: Sweden
Posts: 12,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
A player who was on LTIR the entire Season, and is expected to be on LTIR the next entire Season, doesn't have to be accounted for on the Cap during the off season.

Feel free to Email Matthew Weust for clarification at capgeek.
Then why did Mike Rathje manage to be in the way during previous off-seasons when he was unofficially retired and on the LTIR?

Vikke is online now  
Old
06-06-2011, 05:10 PM
  #316
VanSciver
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,302
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikke View Post
Then why did Mike Rathje manage to be in the way during previous off-seasons when he was unofficially retired and on the LTIR?
Being in the way how? This is what I've been told by Cap authorities. It was news to me also. Like I said there are people available to answer these questions. I always thought the same as you've said, until I was told differently.

VanSciver is offline  
Old
06-06-2011, 05:14 PM
  #317
Vikke
FHM 13 researcher
 
Vikke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bustoville
Country: Sweden
Posts: 12,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Being in the way how? This is what I've been told by Cap authorities. It was news to me also. Like I said there are people available to answer these questions. I always thought the same as you've said, until I was told differently.
How do you think? Physically disrupting the others off-ice workouts?
His contract, the cap and the 10% summer bonus, obviously.

Vikke is online now  
Old
06-06-2011, 05:23 PM
  #318
VanSciver
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,302
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikke View Post
How do you think? Physically disrupting the others off-ice workouts?
His contract, the cap and the 10% summer bonus, obviously.
So Rathje, who wasn't even around the team after he got injured, physically disrupted the other players off ice workouts? Where did you get this information?

Rathje never caused the Flyers any serious cap issues

VanSciver is offline  
Old
06-06-2011, 05:27 PM
  #319
Vikke
FHM 13 researcher
 
Vikke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bustoville
Country: Sweden
Posts: 12,997
vCash: 500
I quit.

Vikke is online now  
Old
06-06-2011, 06:37 PM
  #320
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 10,760
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
"Hindsight is always 20/20"

- Dave Mustaine.
More like


Hindsight is always 20/20 so stop looking at how we've continuously not addressed goaltending properly and why we're cupless for 3 decades....

-Flyers organization

FreshPerspective is offline  
Old
06-06-2011, 06:43 PM
  #321
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 10,760
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Rathje never caused the Flyers any serious cap issues
Anytime you have millions tied up in an invalid it's a serious cap issue..this is a ludicrous statement.

FreshPerspective is offline  
Old
06-06-2011, 07:15 PM
  #322
VanSciver
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,302
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Anytime you have millions tied up in an invalid it's a serious cap issue..this is a ludicrous statement.
Really. Feel free to explain how it is a ludicrous statement. Anyone can just post and make a crazy statement. How is it ludicrous? Did having Rathje on LTIR cause the Flyers to not be able to sign a player, to have to trade a player, how did it affect their roster? What serious Cap issues did having Rathje on LTIR cause?

Educate me and explain to me how it's a ludicrous statement. I'll be waiting excitedly!


Last edited by VanSciver: 06-06-2011 at 07:21 PM.
VanSciver is offline  
Old
06-06-2011, 07:17 PM
  #323
CantSeeColors
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Country: Seychelles
Posts: 5,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
So Rathje, who wasn't even around the team after he got injured, physically disrupted the other players off ice workouts? Where did you get this information?

Rathje never caused the Flyers any serious cap issues
You are to thinking as Michael Leighton is to goaltending.

CantSeeColors is offline  
Old
06-06-2011, 07:38 PM
  #324
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 10,760
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Really. Feel free to explain how it is a ludicrous statement. Anyone can just post and make a crazy statement. How is it ludicrous? Did having Rathje on LTIR cause the Flyers to not be able to sign a player, to have to trade a player, how did it affect their roster? What serious Cap issues did having Rathje on LTIR cause?

Educate me and explain to me how it's a ludicrous statement. I'll be waiting excitedly!
{MOD EDIT}

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=9329

People forget the whole soap opera that was Rathje trying to force the issue to come back..that is what others are trying to point out to you. Sure the Flyers took advantage of a loophole with the whole LTIR but it doesn't mean he didn't have an affect on roster decisions and the team etc. That is my contention...


Last edited by Homeland Security: 06-06-2011 at 09:06 PM. Reason: See report
FreshPerspective is offline  
Old
06-06-2011, 08:21 PM
  #325
VanSciver
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,302
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
{MOD EDIT}

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=9329

People forget the whole soap opera that was Rathje trying to force the issue to come back..that is what others are trying to point out to you. Sure the Flyers took advantage of a loophole with the whole LTIR but it doesn't mean he didn't have an affect on roster decisions and the team etc. That is my contention...
{MOD EDIT} I'm only dealing in the facts. He didn't have an effect on roster decisions. Rathje didn't get his wish. He was not healthy enough to play. the Flyers used the LTI exemption, not any loophole, to be able to replace Rathje and put a complete team together. It didn't cost them from making any move they wanted to make. Getting Rathje on LTIR was never a problem. And didn't cost the Flyers any serious Cap issues other than just having to show the league that Rathje was not healthy enough to play.

So I'm still waiting for you to show me what was so ludicrous about my statement that Rathje didn't cause the FLyers any serious Cap issues.


Last edited by Homeland Security: 06-06-2011 at 09:07 PM. Reason: See report
VanSciver is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:02 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.