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Old
06-07-2011, 04:53 PM
  #51
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Tyler Seguin


Well played!

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Old
06-07-2011, 05:09 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
ignore this leaf fan. We don't want Carle. Good luck in salary cap hell
Good luck attempting to emerge from being the laughing stock of the NHL.

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06-07-2011, 09:53 PM
  #53
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yeah ok buddy good luck with that
Step 1, complete.

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06-07-2011, 10:17 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
ignore this leaf fan. We don't want Carle. Good luck in salary cap hell
It appears this "salary cap hell" gets you into the playoffs. Want to try?

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06-07-2011, 10:23 PM
  #55
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ignore this leaf fan. We don't want Carle. Good luck in salary cap hell
Good luck in the playoffs...

Oh, sorry.

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Old
06-08-2011, 03:29 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Where does this thought that Carle earns too much for a guy who can't anchor a defensive pairing himself come from? For the production that Carle brings, his Cap hit is reasonable. And compared to what a player of his caliber would command on the open market, his Cap hit is even more reasonable. And why can't Carle anchor a defensive pairing himself?
When Pronger went down last season, Carle was shaky and looked lost out there at times. He is below average in his own end.
I don't question his offensive abilities though.

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06-08-2011, 09:36 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Since were doing some research here, let's look at some facts.

Kimmo Timonen recorded 19 points on the PP in 09/10, while Carle recorded 14 pts in the same Season.
Timonen averaged 3:38 on the PP, for a total of 296:49 total PPTOI. Carle averaged 2:31 per game on the PP, for a total oog 201:32 total PPTOI. A considerable difference. Timonen also played on the top unit, and got the majority of 5 on 3 time with Pronger. So Carle putting up 14 PP points to Timonen's 19, is a solid number.

And Carle has shown in the past that he is more than capable of producing on the PP. As with any young developing D man, there are always ups and downs in a player play, as he matures. So to call anything about Carle pathetic, is rather shortsighted.

The poster stated that Carle's passing ability could help their PP. He didn't state anything about Carle dominating and leading the PP. And Carle is known for his solid all around ability not just a supposed "claim to fame" of offensive chops.
The argument that Carle didn't produce as expected on the PP doesn't hold water. Neither did anybody else. If you blast Carle, you have to blast everyone else.

He was the leading point-getter among all defensemen last year and he was on the 2nd PP Unit.

That being said, any trade that involves Matt coming back to Denver, I am all for that

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Old
06-08-2011, 09:43 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by DenverBoone View Post
The argument that Carle didn't produce as expected on the PP doesn't hold water. Neither did anybody else. If you blast Carle, you have to blast everyone else.

He was the leading point-getter among all defensemen last year and he was on the 2nd PP Unit.

That being said, any trade that involves Matt coming back to Denver, I am all for that
5 on 4 PP, GFON/60
Timonen 6.59
Pronger 6.29
Meszaros 3.96
Coburn 3.79
Carle 3.51

I realize you're a fanboy, but the PP with Carle out there QBing as opposed to Timonen dropped in effectiveness by a full 3 *ing goals per 60 minutes.

The year before that, Carle had a GFON/60 of 8.62. Timonen had a GFON/60 of 7.10.

So, Timonen had a net rate drop of 0.51 GFON/60 on the PP last year, and Carle had a net drop of 5.11. Matt Carle's decreased effectiveness on the PP last year is a BIG reason the PP struggled the way it did. The moment Timonen went off the ice, we couldn't score PP goals.

The argument that Carle did not produce as expected on the PP does hold water. It's based in empirical reality, not fanboy fantasyland. Carle SUCKED on the PP last year, and it really hurt the team.

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06-08-2011, 09:48 AM
  #59
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It'd be nice if Carle took slapshots, but he sorta doesn't. He might have had more goals if he didnt just wrist it in from the blueline.

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06-08-2011, 09:50 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
It'd be nice if Carle took slapshots, but he sorta doesn't. He might have had more goals if he didnt just wrist it in from the blueline.
His slapper is pathetic, though. Probably got tired of the goalies laughing at him.

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06-08-2011, 11:25 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
5 on 4 PP, GFON/60
Timonen 6.59
Pronger 6.29
Meszaros 3.96
Coburn 3.79
Carle 3.51

I realize you're a fanboy, but the PP with Carle out there QBing as opposed to Timonen dropped in effectiveness by a full 3 *ing goals per 60 minutes.

The year before that, Carle had a GFON/60 of 8.62. Timonen had a GFON/60 of 7.10.

So, Timonen had a net rate drop of 0.51 GFON/60 on the PP last year, and Carle had a net drop of 5.11. Matt Carle's decreased effectiveness on the PP last year is a BIG reason the PP struggled the way it did. The moment Timonen went off the ice, we couldn't score PP goals.

The argument that Carle did not produce as expected on the PP does hold water. It's based in empirical reality, not fanboy fantasyland. Carle SUCKED on the PP last year, and it really hurt the team.
You can't prove that Carle was the main issue on the PP when he was out and that's the reason for the drop in production. Was Carle the only player on the ice on those PP? Did the play of the other 4 players on the unit have an affect on the production, or was it just Carle? There's no question that Carle's production on the PP was low and it's an area he needs to improve on. And he has shown in the past that he's quite capable.

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His slapper is pathetic, though. Probably got tired of the goalies laughing at him.
I think it's pretty clear that you have an obvious bias against the player. And it's not deserved.

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Old
06-08-2011, 11:28 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post

I think it's pretty clear that you have an obvious bias against the player. And it's not deserved.

He really doesn't have one though. That's not really disputable. Again...do you watch him play? All he ever does is fire wrist shots, regardless of how far out he is. It's likely why his shooting % is so low...he doesn't make it hard for goalies to make saves on him.

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06-08-2011, 11:34 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
He really doesn't have one though. That's not really disputable. Again...do you watch him play? All he ever does is fire wrist shots, regardless of how far out he is. It's likely why his shooting % is so low...he doesn't make it hard for goalies to make saves on him.
A wrist shot can be a very effective shot in a lot of situations. Carle does not have the shot that Pronger or Meszaros has, and he never will. That doesn't mean he can't produce on the PP or score goals better and have a higher shooting percentage. he's shown in the past that he can. That is definitely an area where he can improve on.

And there's a definite bias there.

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06-08-2011, 11:38 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
A wrist shot can be a very effective shot in a lot of situations. Carle does not have the shot that Pronger or Meszaros has, and he never will. That doesn't mean he can't produce on the PP or score goals better and have a higher shooting percentage. he's shown in the past that he can. That is definitely an area where he can improve on.

And there's a definite bias there.
No, it's really an honest observation. His wrister isn't terribly powerful either...goalies haven't ever really struggled to make saves off it. His shots generally ended with easy glove saves and an offensive zone faceoff the Flyers were likely to lose for most of the season. Yes, wristshots can be effective. Carle's wristers from the blueline aren't.

Halfway through the season I was wondering if he had some sort of shoulder injury; I'm still expecting to hear about one during the offseason.

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06-08-2011, 11:44 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Halfway through the season I was wondering if he had some sort of shoulder injury; I'm still expecting to hear about one during the offseason.
He says he's only going to have surgery if he gets to 25,000 followers on Twitter.

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06-08-2011, 11:48 AM
  #66
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Is there anyway for Carle to leverage his neck strength into his shot? Is there a summer camp for that?

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06-08-2011, 11:53 AM
  #67
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Is there anyway for Carle to leverage his neck strength into his shot? Is there a summer camp for that?
According to a reliable source on human anatomy,

"The head bone connected to the neck bone,
The neck bone connected to the back bone."

The head and neck are connected to the back. Your arm bones are also connected to your back. It seems completely possible to re-route some of that massive neck-power into his shot. He just has to channel it down his back bone into his arm bones.

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06-08-2011, 11:55 AM
  #68
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Carle has a good wrister, he's just rarely in a position to use it effectively (the fate of a D-man).

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06-08-2011, 01:01 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
No, it's really an honest observation. His wrister isn't terribly powerful either...goalies haven't ever really struggled to make saves off it. His shots generally ended with easy glove saves and an offensive zone faceoff the Flyers were likely to lose for most of the season. Yes, wristshots can be effective. Carle's wristers from the blueline aren't.

Halfway through the season I was wondering if he had some sort of shoulder injury; I'm still expecting to hear about one during the offseason.
He has a decent wrist shot. He just didn't have a good year finishing on his chances. No doubt he can improve on that. He's never going to be a player who blows it by the goalie from the point. He just doesn't have that shot. His best bet is take a good hard low shot and get it on net for screens, deflections, and rebound chances. That is a very effective play.

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06-08-2011, 01:50 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
He has a decent wrist shot. He just didn't have a good year finishing on his chances. No doubt he can improve on that. He's never going to be a player who blows it by the goalie from the point. He just doesn't have that shot. His best bet is take a good hard low shot and get it on net for screens, deflections, and rebound chances. That is a very effective play.
Agreed. Not every point man in the league needs to have an Al MacInnis-type shot. Paul Coffey never had a howitzer from the point, but he always managed to get his shots through. That's the key to being a successful point man - getting your shots through and to the net. That is something that Carle needs to address though because that would make him a better point man.

I've read in the past that some of the point men in Montreal (Chelios, Streit, Souray, etc...) all used to use a lead puck for practicing point shots. Obviously it wasn't a solid lead puck, but it was heavier than a regular puck and it helped them with accuracy and getting the puck on the net. When they got back to using a regular vulcanized rubber puck, it was much easier to adapt and they ended up developing better point shots as a result. Maybe that's something Carle should look into.....

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06-08-2011, 01:55 PM
  #71
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Agreed. Not every point man in the league needs to have an Al MacInnis-type shot. Paul Coffey never had a howitzer from the point, but he always managed to get his shots through. That's the key to being a successful point man - getting your shots through and to the net. That is something that Carle needs to address though because that would make him a better point man.

I've read in the past that some of the point men in Montreal (Chelios, Streit, Souray, etc...) all used to use a lead puck for practicing point shots. Obviously it wasn't a solid lead puck, but it was heavier than a regular puck and it helped them with accuracy and getting the puck on the net. When they got back to using a regular vulcanized rubber puck, it was much easier to adapt and they ended up developing better point shots as a result. Maybe that's something Carle should look into.....
Well, the real problem is that Carle has NO shot. He's just not dangerous in himself with the puck at the point... and defenses don't really respect his shot, which then limits the offense you can create elsewhere.

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06-08-2011, 02:00 PM
  #72
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Well, the real problem is that Carle has NO shot. He's just not dangerous in himself with the puck at the point... and defenses don't really respect his shot, which then limits the offense you can create elsewhere.
Oh agreed. But at the same time, it's nothing that a summer of work can't cure. I don't think he needs a howitzer. Most times, you can't control a howitzer and the shot just goes all over the place. However, if he can develop a hard enough shot from the point that remains low, but gets on net, then that's a huge plus right there.

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06-08-2011, 02:16 PM
  #73
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ignore this leaf fan. We don't want Carle. Good luck in salary cap hell
Much rather be in this supposed 'salary cap hell' of ours than....whatever it is the Leafs are in.

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06-08-2011, 02:49 PM
  #74
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It's hockey. You're all at a 10, and you need to be at a 2.

With that out of the way, it's obvious that they gap between what Flyers fans think is reasonable and what Leafs fans think is reasonable, and that's okay. Basically, the art of negotiating is to find a middle ground, but instead, the thread seemed to devolve into a pointless bickering match.

"LOL u dont have cap room!!"
"LOL u dont know what playoffs are!!"

Ugh, let's get back to the issue at hand. Flyers fans, you're probably not going to get what you want. Leafs fans, you're probably not going to get him for what you want.

/Rant over

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06-08-2011, 03:04 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by KesselLooksLikeRadar View Post
It's hockey. You're all at a 10, and you need to be at a 2.

With that out of the way, it's obvious that they gap between what Flyers fans think is reasonable and what Leafs fans think is reasonable, and that's okay. Basically, the art of negotiating is to find a middle ground, but instead, the thread seemed to devolve into a pointless bickering match.

"LOL u dont have cap room!!"
"LOL u dont know what playoffs are!!"

Ugh, let's get back to the issue at hand. Flyers fans, you're probably not going to get what you want. Leafs fans, you're probably not going to get him for what you want.

/Rant over
You really felt it was worth your time to tap this out?

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