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Old
06-08-2011, 09:22 AM
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The Flyers & Columbus' 8th Overall pick

As expressed in previous threads..Columbus is willing to part with the 8th overall pick and also Voracek's name has been brought up. Columbus is looking for a Center and in the Flyers case they probably inquired about Carter.

I suspect there is a player the Flyers want in this upcoming draft. Since we haven't had a pick since the pleistocene epoch and we need to start restocking the cupboard ...I would somehow like to acquire this pick along with some other cap friendly assets that would make the Flyers a more well rounded team. We need a bit more grit...Voracek would be a nice addition at the wing.

Haven't delved into this upcoming draft but who at the 8th pick could the Flyers target that could possibly play next year and be a decent impact rookie at a favorable cap hit and allow for us to sign Bryzgalov?

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The Blue Jackets have talked with the Oilers and Flyers about the 8th overall pick. They have likely talked with other teams as well.

http://twitter.com/#!/Aportzline/sta...21846096138240

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06-08-2011, 09:42 AM
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2Claude2Giroux
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Duncan Siemens?

He's supposed to be a big nasty d-man. I think he's projected to go around that time.

I'd go d-man first as we'll eventually need to replace Pronger/Timonen but if there isn't one on the board, I'd go with a scoring winger.

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06-08-2011, 09:49 AM
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Given the Bryz trade, I'd do Carter for Voracek, 8th + prospect now.

Whether Columbus would or not is something else.

But if they do that, Voracek steps in at wing where Carter has been playing all year and for less salary.

Then just move Hartnell for pucks, and this team is moving on

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06-08-2011, 09:54 AM
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What kind of player is Voracek?

Could he be a guy that they could just slide in to replace Leino?

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06-08-2011, 09:59 AM
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Voracek could easily replace Leino, I watched him play in Halifax, he is going to be a stud. Think of a line of

JVR-Giroux-Voracek

money

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06-08-2011, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Claude2Giroux View Post
What kind of player is Voracek?

Could he be a guy that they could just slide in to replace Leino?
I'm trying to think of a player comparison for Jake. I don't want to see Carter gone from the Flyers, but I've been a big fan of Voracek's since I saw him play in junior. He and JVR together could change the world. Not the hockey world. The entire world.

I think Columbus made a mistake keeping him as an 18 year old. But I would be very, very happy to see him in a Flyers jersey now.

I think I'd cry if the Flyers managed to get Voracek and Bryz.

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Old
06-08-2011, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
I'm trying to think of a player comparison for Jake. I don't want to see Carter gone from the Flyers, but I've been a big fan of Voracek's since I saw him play in junior. He and JVR together could change the world. Not the hockey world. The entire world.

I think Columbus made a mistake keeping him as an 18 year old. But I would be very, very happy to see him in a Flyers jersey now.

I think I'd cry if the Flyers managed to get Voracek and Bryz.
JVR and Voracek..wow that is a nice duo. Nice call...

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06-08-2011, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
I'm trying to think of a player comparison for Jake. I don't want to see Carter gone from the Flyers, but I've been a big fan of Voracek's since I saw him play in junior. He and JVR together could change the world. Not the hockey world. The entire world.

I think Columbus made a mistake keeping him as an 18 year old. But I would be very, very happy to see him in a Flyers jersey now.

I think I'd cry if the Flyers managed to get Voracek and Bryz.
How about Milan Michalek as a comparison, or Wojtek Wolski. Good size and speed and skill, but haven't yet figured it all out?

I'm not sure I want to trade Carter to get him, but he could turn out to be a good player.

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06-08-2011, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Codith View Post
Voracek could easily replace Leino, I watched him play in Halifax, he is going to be a stud. Think of a line of

JVR-Giroux-Voracek

money
That line would do serious damage. Voracek also fits the physical aspect of a Flyer.

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06-08-2011, 10:06 AM
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How about Milan Michalek as a comparison, or Wojtek Wolski. Good size and speed and skill, but haven't yet figured it all out?

I'm not sure I want to trade Carter to get him, but he could turn out to be a good player.
Definitely not Wolski. He's stronger and not afraid of corners.

He's very comparable to JVR, except that JVR a) had additional time in college to work on his game, and b) is on a better team at the moment. Voracek is more of a playmaker, but can score some holy-bleep-did-you-just-see-that goals as well.

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06-08-2011, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Claude2Giroux View Post
Duncan Siemens?

He's supposed to be a big nasty d-man. I think he's projected to go around that time.

I'd go d-man first as we'll eventually need to replace Pronger/Timonen but if there isn't one on the board, I'd go with a scoring winger.
hmm intriguing...see this is what I mean about reallocation of assets. Trading Carter for the right package would position this team much better. A deal with Columbus for their 8th, Voracek and another prospect is def something the Flyers have to consider. People keep talking about why the Flyers would trade Carter after the deal they just signed. Well consider also why the Flyers left themselves a little breathing room with the NMC which doesn't kick in till later.

If this Duncan Siemens guy is what he's billed at..well it makes good sense to try and get this pick somehow. Drafting an impact D man or one with the potential to be one is much better than trying to acquire one in a trade which will cost you even more like we saw with Pronger. Again ..given the Pronger situation with his back and not knowing if he'll ever be a full-time player again and then with Timonen leaving probably after next season...well it makes sense to try and get a defensive prospect in this draft who can play fairly quick and will be cap friendly. Then with Timonen's money you can sign another impact one later but at leass money. To me this is how you manage a team instead of putting all our eggs in Carter's basket.

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06-08-2011, 10:27 AM
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Very good business way of looking at the situation. We draft a stud defender, put him on the 3rd pairing, maybe with Pronger? and develop him with Coburn/Mez for the next 2-3 years to replace Prongs/Timonen.

I'm not sure Columbus would give up both Voracek and #8 pick for just Carter.

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06-08-2011, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
hmm intriguing...see this is what I mean about reallocation of assets. Trading Carter for the right package would position this team much better. A deal with Columbus for their 8th, Voracek and another prospect is def something the Flyers have to consider. People keep talking about why the Flyers would trade Carter after the deal they just signed. Well consider also why the Flyers left themselves a little breathing room with the NMC which doesn't kick in till later.

If this Duncan Siemens guy is what he's billed at..well it makes good sense to try and get this pick somehow. Drafting an impact D man or one with the potential to be one is much better than trying to acquire one in a trade which will cost you even more like we saw with Pronger. Again ..given the Pronger situation with his back and not knowing if he'll ever be a full-time player again and then with Timonen leaving probably after next season...well it makes sense to try and get a defensive prospect in this draft who can play fairly quick and will be cap friendly. Then with Timonen's money you can sign another impact one later but at leass money. To me this is how you manage a team instead of putting all our eggs in Carter's basket.
It's not like Carter has an 8.5 mil cap hit.

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06-08-2011, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
It's not like Carter has an 8.5 mil cap hit.
Dude..it's more than just the cap hit..I explained it all.

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06-08-2011, 10:31 AM
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I'd still rather have one very good cheap player than several lesser cheap players/prospects.

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06-08-2011, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I'd still rather have one very good cheap player than several lesser cheap players/prospects.
You are equating "cheap" players with them being lesser players productively..that is not how it works. You are creating a false equivalency.

Again this is about possibly getting a promising prospect (with that 8th pick) to replace/develop one of our anchor D men for now who would be able to contribute fairly quick and be a good cap hit. Then adding a very good winger at a good cap hit and then possibly even getting another asset. This is all about putting a product on the ice that is deeper yet still productive and affordable cap wise.

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06-08-2011, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
hmm intriguing...see this is what I mean about reallocation of assets. Trading Carter for the right package would position this team much better. A deal with Columbus for their 8th, Voracek and another prospect is def something the Flyers have to consider. People keep talking about why the Flyers would trade Carter after the deal they just signed. Well consider also why the Flyers left themselves a little breathing room with the NMC which doesn't kick in till later.

If this Duncan Siemens guy is what he's billed at..well it makes good sense to try and get this pick somehow. Drafting an impact D man or one with the potential to be one is much better than trying to acquire one in a trade which will cost you even more like we saw with Pronger. Again ..given the Pronger situation with his back and not knowing if he'll ever be a full-time player again and then with Timonen leaving probably after next season...well it makes sense to try and get a defensive prospect in this draft who can play fairly quick and will be cap friendly. Then with Timonen's money you can sign another impact one later but at leass money. To me this is how you manage a team instead of putting all our eggs in Carter's basket.
Flyers left "breathing room" for themselves because no player can have a NTC or NMC until they're UFA years kick in. That's why Richards doesn't have one yet either.

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06-08-2011, 10:41 AM
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Flyers left "breathing room" for themselves because no player can have a NTC or NMC until they're UFA years kick in. That's why Richards doesn't have one yet either.
Thanks...well they should use that breathing room. Again for the right offer they def should consider moving him while they have that room.

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06-08-2011, 10:46 AM
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JVR - Giroux - Voracek (will score a million goals)
Hartnell - Briere - Leino (will continue to score)
Versteeg - Richards - Holmstrom/Read/Rinaldo (will shutdown the other teams best line + score goals)
Powe - Betts - Shelley (grind the other team down and force faceoffs & turnovers in the offensive zone)

Pronger - Carle
Coburn - Timonen
Meszaros - O'Donnell

Bryzgalov
Bobrovsky

yes please.

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06-08-2011, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by SeanL44 View Post
JVR - Giroux - Voracek (will score a million goals)
Hartnell - Briere - Leino (will continue to score)
Versteeg - Richards - Holmstrom/Read/Rinaldo (will shutdown the other teams best line + score goals)
Powe - Betts - Shelley (grind the other team down and force faceoffs & turnovers in the offensive zone)

Pronger - Carle
Coburn - Timonen
Meszaros - O'Donnell

Bryzgalov
Bobrovsky

yes please.
The height down the middle is ummmmm.......short?

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06-08-2011, 11:02 AM
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Lets say we move Carter + Carle for Voracek + #8 + medium prospect? Sign Gagne?

Gagne [2.5] - Richards [5.75] - Nodl [1.1]
Hartnell [4.2] - Briere [6.5] - Leino [2.2]
JVR [1.6] - Giroux [3.75] - Voracek [1.2]
Shelley [1.1] - Betts [0.7] - Powe/AHL Player/FA [0.6]


Pronger [5.0] - #8 pick? [~1.2]
Coburn [3.2] - Timonen [6.3]
O'Donnell/Vet Dman [1.3] - Meszaros [4.0]

Bryz [5.5]
Bob [1.75]


That right there is ~59.5 million

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06-08-2011, 11:11 AM
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The height down the middle is ummmmm.......short?
Eh, I never thought that was really a big deal.

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06-08-2011, 11:11 AM
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The height down the middle is ummmmm.......short?
briere gets bullied around a bit, but richards and giroux play a physical enough of a game for their height not to make much of a difference.

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06-08-2011, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Quacker912 View Post
Lets say we move Carter + Carle for Voracek + #8 + medium prospect? Sign Gagne?

Gagne [2.5] - Richards [5.75] - Nodl [1.1]
Hartnell [4.2] - Briere [6.5] - Leino [2.2]
JVR [1.6] - Giroux [3.75] - Voracek [1.2]
Shelley [1.1] - Betts [0.7] - Powe/AHL Player/FA [0.6]


Pronger [5.0] - #8 pick? [~1.2]
Coburn [3.2] - Timonen [6.3]
O'Donnell/Vet Dman [1.3] - Meszaros [4.0]

Bryz [5.5]
Bob [1.75]


That right there is ~59.5 million
that's pretty wishful thinking on leino and gagne. i think it would take 3 mil a piece to keep them here. you also can't rely on a defenseman to step in right from juniors, although gus and marshall are knocking at the door and would likely benefit from some time w/ pronger.

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06-08-2011, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by PhillyCurt12 View Post
briere gets bullied around a bit, but richards and giroux play a physical enough of a game for their height not to make much of a difference.
I may be alone on this, but I feel like Briere plays a much bigger game than his height. He was outmuscling Chara in the corners during the Boston series. Granted, that could just be Chara.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quacker912 View Post
Lets say we move Carter + Carle for Voracek + #8 + medium prospect? Sign Gagne?

Gagne [2.5] - Richards [5.75] - Nodl [1.1]
Hartnell [4.2] - Briere [6.5] - Leino [2.2]
JVR [1.6] - Giroux [3.75] - Voracek [1.2]
Shelley [1.1] - Betts [0.7] - Powe/AHL Player/FA [0.6]


Pronger [5.0] - #8 pick? [~1.2]
Coburn [3.2] - Timonen [6.3]
O'Donnell/Vet Dman [1.3] - Meszaros [4.0]

Bryz [5.5]
Bob [1.75]


That right there is ~59.5 million
I think we could squeeze that deal. All I hear though is how weak this draft is after the first 5 picks or so, so depending on who falls to #8, I don't know if they could play the minutes with Pronger, or maybe even make the team.

Also, I don't think Gagne would sign in Philly after the way he was treated. And 2.5 for him doesn't seem fair either, he had a pretty decent playoffs and with his rich scoring history, I could see him commanding at least 3-3.5. Although, his injury history is telling. Maybe I'm off, I haven't really had a good flair for predicting worth.

As for that 4th line... yeesh. I cringe. Plug in Wellwood instead of Shelley. Maybe even Testwuide or Holmstrom and I'm better with it. I'd like to see these guys AT LEAST get a chance!

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