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Jeff Carter to LA Kings

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Old
06-08-2011, 01:32 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
I thought they might want to push Hartnell instead. Just my opinion.
I think if Philly had their choice, they would definitely move Hartnell instead of Carter. The Flyers could definitely get more quality for Carter, though, and if it landed them this package I can't see them turning it down - I can't see the Kings turning this down, either. I just figured it worked for both teams, and even freed up the space for Philly to sign Bryz.

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06-08-2011, 01:34 PM
  #77
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Decent value from a Kings point of view, although we don't have a 1st this year and it might push us over the cap with Doughty still to be sorted.

I'd prefer something like Schenn, Voynov and a 2nd for Carter.

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06-08-2011, 01:36 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
Its not about cap space. Its about quality for quality. To acquire a player like Carter, a 1C, you need to hand over top quality young players on ELC and good draft picks. People have been mentioning B. Schenn, Simmonds, Voracek and these two defenseman you have proposed dont even come close and have done next to nothing in the NHL.
I understand. Phy needs 5mill in cap space, if not more. So you guys send them back 6-7mill and how does that help them. If it is Schenn, they maybe able to just keep him in the minors this year than add some pics to it. Once you send Simmonds, who I believe is up for a raise and whomever else back than that becomes counter productive. Basically Phy sends 5.5mill and gets that much in return if not more. As I said, someone will have to take on another contract. Aulie and Gunnarson are not Doughty and Johnson but they are on ELC's and are cheap serviceable dmen and they need bodies back there. This is an easy trade if it is for B Schenn, one of the young goalies and a pic-money in and money out. I don't see Phy letting Leino walk so they will need room for him. I don't want to get in some war of words with you but you have to understand the situation.

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06-08-2011, 01:44 PM
  #79
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Done!!!

I do this deal in a heartbeat!Carter is signed for eleventybillion years at a great price, Versteeg is quickness we are looking for.Yes I understand losing Simmonds is tough, but Schenn may be the next Mike Richards, maybe.I like the proven product and I don't mind the rest of that package a bit.We need to score and I'm not sure Schenn will score like Carter. Yea maybe a great leader, but thats why we have Dustin Brown I thought.

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06-08-2011, 01:48 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
I understand. Phy needs 5mill in cap space, if not more. So you guys send them back 6-7mill and how does that help them. If it is Schenn, they maybe able to just keep him in the minors this year than add some pics to it. Once you send Simmonds, who I believe is up for a raise and whomever else back than that becomes counter productive. Basically Phy sends 5.5mill and gets that much in return if not more. As I said, someone will have to take on another contract. Aulie and Gunnarson are not Doughty and Johnson but they are on ELC's and are cheap serviceable dmen and they need bodies back there. This is an easy trade if it is for B Schenn, one of the young goalies and a pic-money in and money out. I don't see Phy letting Leino walk so they will need room for him. I don't want to get in some war of words with you but you have to understand the situation.
Its not about servicable players. 1C dont get traded for servicable players unless they demand trade. I will give an example. Columbus offering an 8th overall pick and Voracek. LA is currently tabling Simmonds, Schenn, 1st + for Versteeg and Carter. The point is these offers contain high level prospects and players. Gunnarsson and Aulie arent anywhere close. The person who suggested Schenn from the Leafs is on the right track. Remove Carter, Carle and add Schenn, the Flyers are fine.

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06-08-2011, 01:49 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
I understand. Phy needs 5mill in cap space, if not more. So you guys send them back 6-7mill and how does that help them. If it is Schenn, they maybe able to just keep him in the minors this year than add some pics to it. Once you send Simmonds, who I believe is up for a raise and whomever else back than that becomes counter productive. Basically Phy sends 5.5mill and gets that much in return if not more. As I said, someone will have to take on another contract. Aulie and Gunnarson are not Doughty and Johnson but they are on ELC's and are cheap serviceable dmen and they need bodies back there. This is an easy trade if it is for B Schenn, one of the young goalies and a pic-money in and money out. I don't see Phy letting Leino walk so they will need room for him. I don't want to get in some war of words with you but you have to understand the situation.
Philly can create 2.5 million in cap space alone losing Zherdev(1.5), Shelley(.5), OD(.5)

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06-08-2011, 01:54 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
Its not about servicable players. 1C dont get traded for servicable players unless they demand trade. I will give an example. Columbus offering an 8th overall pick and Voracek. LA is currently tabling Simmonds, Schenn, 1st + for Versteeg and Carter. The point is these offers contain high level prospects and players. Gunnarsson and Aulie arent anywhere close. The person who suggested Schenn from the Leafs is on the right track. Remove Carter, Carle and add Schenn, the Flyers are fine.

But throwing L.Schenn in there is sending back 3mill a year and that is what you fail to understand. Aulie is quite a capable top four pairing dman, not the offensive type of player but a very good young shut down player. I see what a Columbus poster has offered but I have not heard that the franchise has offered that. Flyers still have to find room for three or four other players.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Philly can create 2.5 million in cap space alone losing Zherdev(1.5), Shelley(.5), OD(.5)
Throwing water in a bucket. Problems are larger than 2.5mill

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06-08-2011, 02:01 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
Throwing water in a bucket. Problems are larger than 2.5mill
No they are not. Honestly, i wish people could actually get facts sorted here.

Go on, show us our cap troubles?

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06-08-2011, 02:07 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
idont see philly getting fair value for carter, unless there is a bidding war for him.
Other GMs should know that Philly needs to make room for Bryz and should have an edge in negotiations .
I agree for the most part that this will be the case for the lesser players like Carle or Steeg, but if Carter is actually going to be traded (which he won't be) there would be 20 teams out there bidding against each other to get him on their roster so his return would be good.

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Old
06-08-2011, 02:17 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
No they are not. Honestly, i wish people could actually get facts sorted here.

Go on, show us our cap troubles?
Nik Zherdev (2m) and V.Leino (800k), Sean O'Donnell (1.3m), Nick Boynton (500K), B. Boucher (925k) are UFA's

Dan Carcillo(1.075m), Andreas Nodl (850K), Darrol Powell (725k)

Rough calculations you have already committed 58-59mill next year and you have a couple rfa's and many ufa's and you are trying to fit in Brygalov-maybe around 5.5? You may be able to put Lapierre on Long Term injure reserve but you still have to deal with 8 holes out of the lineup. Projected cap around 63 mill. So if things stay the way they are and sign the goalie to 5.5 then you are at the cap and have to walk away from all of the above.


Rough numbers but the team is in a bind. Please correct me if I am off.

Edit. The year after JVR and Versteegh are rfa's

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06-08-2011, 02:18 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bumperkisser View Post
jeff carter not blockbuster enogh 4 you? lol
Well you have to understand my point.
Our coach is Terry Murray....

Carter would be a fine 25-30 goal scorer here in L.A.

This would not be a Blockbuster.

Give me a 40+ goal scorer and i would call it a Blockbuster

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06-08-2011, 02:19 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
But throwing L.Schenn in there is sending back 3mill a year and that is what you fail to understand. Aulie is quite a capable top four pairing dman, not the offensive type of player but a very good young shut down player. I see what a Columbus poster has offered but I have not heard that the franchise has offered that. Flyers still have to find room for three or four other players.
What I fail to understand, is how the Schenn 3 million is going to be a deal when both Carle and Carter are gone. Its basically this. Philly signs Bryzgalov, acquires Schenn and trades Carle and Carter. Cap is a wash.

Dont ever tell anyone they dont know hockey and call Aulie a top 4 defenseman, seriously.

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06-08-2011, 02:20 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
Well you have to understand my point.
Our coach is Terry Murray....

Carter would be a fine 25-30 goal scorer here in L.A.

This would not be a Blockbuster.

Give me a 40+ goal scorer and i would call it a Blockbuster
Why would he be less effective in a greater role in LA than in a lesser role in Phy? Just wondering.

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06-08-2011, 02:23 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
What I fail to understand, is how the Schenn 3 million is going to be a deal when both Carle and Carter are gone. Its basically this. Philly signs Bryzgalov, acquires Schenn and trades Carle and Carter. Cap is a wash.

Dont ever tell anyone they dont know hockey and call Aulie a top 4 defenseman, seriously.
Hey guy. Look at their cap numbers than talk to me. And relax a little bit. It's not a wash. They are sitting at 58mill right now without the goalie signed and 3 rfa's and 5 ufa's.

Aulie is a very good young dman. As I said, he is not an offensive presence but in Toronto paired with Phaneuf the guy was great from the time he was called up. For a team looking to get younger and cheaper they would love to have him. Relax a little bit.

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06-08-2011, 02:25 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
That's ridiculous. Some Kings fans overrate Schenn incredibly and this is an example of that. You don't consider Jeff Carter to be a part of a blockbuster deal?
Carter is a proven 40 goal scorer (the Kings biggest weakness is goal scoring) who is 6'3, is young and is locked up for a long time and you wouldn't include Schenn in a deal for Carter?
A) No i don't overrate Schenn. I just wanna see how a player is turning out before i trade him.
You could offer me whatever you want for Loktionov, Forbort and Toffoly and i would say "NO"

B) No, our biggest need is a new Coach.
With Murray in front, Carter would turn into a 25 goal scorer instantly and i don't trade Schenn for a 25 goal scorer.

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06-08-2011, 02:26 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
Why would he be less effective in a greater role in LA than in a lesser role in Phy? Just wondering.
have you seen a Kings game lately ???

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06-08-2011, 02:27 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
Why would he be less effective in a greater role in LA than in a lesser role in Phy? Just wondering.
Well there is a debate that Terry Murray seems to frown on skilled players, and turns them into grinders rather than point producers.

The kings do run a D-first system which might hamper some types of players and their point totals. (see Moulson, Purcell, Loktionov,etc).

Is he right or wrong? I am going to wait another year before coming to the conclusion that TM isnt the right coach to take us over the top.

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06-08-2011, 02:29 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
have you seen a Kings game lately ???
Quote:
Originally Posted by scramble91 View Post
Well there is a debate that Terry Murray seems to frown on skilled players, and turns them into grinders rather than point producers.

The kings do run a D-first system which might hamper some types of players and their point totals. (see Moulson, Purcell, Loktionov,etc).

Is he right or wrong? I am going to wait another year before coming to the conclusion that TM isnt the right coach to take us over the top.
I only watched a few games during the year and then the playoffs but you guys were really banged up so I never thought much of it. I have never been a fan of Murray myself.

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Old
06-08-2011, 02:46 PM
  #94
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Kurri, its our own damn fault if we acquire a player that we can't use effectively. That doesn't alter the cost of attaining said player.

For Carter? Schenn, Muzzin and our 2012 1st would be my initial offer. And I'd prefer to remove Versteeg and Simmonds from the equation altogether, if at all possible. Is that bit a cap oriented move?

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06-08-2011, 02:53 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Philly can create 2.5 million in cap space alone losing Zherdev(1.5), Shelley(.5), OD(.5)
Zherdev and Odonnell are UFAs?

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06-08-2011, 02:54 PM
  #96
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Zherdev and Odonnell are UFAs?
Yes.

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06-08-2011, 03:02 PM
  #97
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Kurri, its our own damn fault if we acquire a player that we can't use effectively. That doesn't alter the cost of attaining said player.

For Carter? Schenn, Muzzin and our 2012 1st would be my initial offer. And I'd prefer to remove Versteeg and Simmonds from the equation altogether, if at all possible. Is that bit a cap oriented move?
Yes. It would basically be swapping 3rd liners, except Philly gets to dump some more salary.

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06-08-2011, 03:04 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
Well you have to understand my point.
Our coach is Terry Murray....

Carter would be a fine 25-30 goal scorer here in L.A.

This would not be a Blockbuster.

Give me a 40+ goal scorer and i would call it a Blockbuster
nice try 25 - 30 goals ?

Carter is what every team would love to have, he's big, FAST and has great hands

gotta do better than that

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06-08-2011, 03:20 PM
  #99
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Jeff Carter had his best offensive season (the 46 goal, PPG one) under John Stevens...who is the assistant coach in LA

And it's not like Laviolette is some offensive guru of a coach, he requires all of his players to play with a defensive, grinding mentality (see Zherdev, Nikolay)

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06-08-2011, 03:32 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Timbo Slice View Post
Yes. It would basically be swapping 3rd liners, except Philly gets to dump some more salary.
Aight, I understand, but I'd prefer to hold on to Simmonds if I can get away with it. Would you be opposed to dumping Versteeg elsewhere? Or if you really wanted a capable body back in return Brad Richardson would be up to the task.

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