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Old
06-07-2011, 04:39 PM
  #101
JawandaPuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
If only Vancouver and Chicago had taken this advice and dealt away 20 year old unfinished articles Kesler and Bolland when they had the chance...


The ends...



...justify the means...



...in this case.

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06-07-2011, 04:43 PM
  #102
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johansson closed the season with at a 20 + goal pace in his final 20 games. he backed that up with 6pts in 9 playoff games. considering his age and that its nominal for rookies that young to fade in the final quarter of the season from wearing down, the way he closed his season was impressive.

if he just keeps that pace up without improving, he'll be in that 25-25 zone or close. the difference between season 1 and 2 is that johansson will start the season with the quality minutes and linemates that he only saw in the latter stages of this past season.

I would say there is a reasonable chance that he steps up another rung. I dont expect him to regress

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06-07-2011, 04:50 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JawandaPuck View Post

The ends...

...justify the means...

...in this case.
The key words there are 'in this case.' It rarely works out that way.

Are you saying even though we know for a fact that the 'Hawks won the cup last year that they should have dealt away Bolland when he was 20 in an effort to win it earlier?

Or that even though the Canucks are on the cusp of winning their first ever cup they should have dealt away a 20 year old Kesler in an effort to win it earlier?

And in the cap era having a young NHL contributer on a ELC is much more important than it used to be.

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06-07-2011, 05:05 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
The key words there are 'in this case.' It rarely works out that way.

Are you saying even though we know for a fact that the 'Hawks won the cup last year that they should have dealt away Bolland when he was 20 in an effort to win it earlier?

Or that even though the Canucks are on the cusp of winning their first ever cup they should have dealt away a 20 year old Kesler in an effort to win it earlier?

And in the cap era having a young NHL contributer on a ELC is much more important than it used to be.
CHI and VAN had the right guys in place already. No need to deal Bolland and Kesler. Instead they dealt young desirable assets in Barker & Grabner, both of whom were luxuries to their respective teams. Mojo is a luxury even if he turns out to be a 50 point, two way 5'11" 2C, ie, poor man's Backstrom or Steen-lite. While still on an ELC, he's that much more marketable.

As for cap space, plenty to go around in WSH, up to $4-5M for the right player. It may not work, but I'm sure GMGM will try.

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06-07-2011, 05:12 PM
  #105
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Majo won't make anyone forget Iginla.

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06-08-2011, 08:20 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JawandaPuck View Post
CHI and VAN had the right guys in place already. No need to deal Bolland and Kesler. Instead they dealt young desirable assets in Barker & Grabner, both of whom were luxuries to their respective teams. Mojo is a luxury even if he turns out to be a 50 point, two way 5'11" 2C, ie, poor man's Backstrom or Steen-lite. While still on an ELC, he's that much more marketable.

As for cap space, plenty to go around in WSH, up to $4-5M for the right player. It may not work, but I'm sure GMGM will try.
When Kesler and Bolland were 20 their teams could easily have made very good the argument to deal them then to get better quicker as neither was even a full time NHLer at that point.

Vancouver was coming off two fairly early playoff exits after great regular seasons, kind of like the Caps now, and then in the first year after the lockout missed the playoffs. Dealing Kesler would have made sense if the goal was to accelerate the improvement process. But I guarantee they are very very happy they hung onto him and let him mature into the player he is today.

Chicago was in the 4th year of 5 in a row of missing the playoffs but were getting better, though slowly. Again dealing Bolland to accelerate that improvement would have had sense but without a doubt they are glad they didn't move him then.

There are plenty of examples of teams that could have dealt away young players for immediate help but didn't and those young players matured into big time contributors on cup winners or finalists. Pretty much the only example in anywhere close to recent times the other way is Nieuwendyk/Iginla and that was 16 years ago.

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06-08-2011, 08:28 AM
  #107
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There are quite a few luxury players on this team but Johansson isn't one of them.

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06-08-2011, 11:01 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
When Kesler and Bolland...
I understand what you are saying. I'm not a against teams hanging on to their young players to reap larger returns at a later date. VAN and CHI were right to do this with Kesler and Bolland. In MoJo's case, I'm comfortable in projecting the end product to be substantially different than a Kesler or Bolland -- you've read my comparables above. The point production may end up being similar but he'll lack those all important "intangibles". MoJo is a nice player but he doesn't fit the mold of a playoff 2C IMO, in particularly if his superior clone, Backstrom, is playing 1C.

It is as a 3C then that MoJo becomes a luxury, IMO, especially when you consider his trade value (to acquire the ideal 2C -- a la Kesler and Bolland) and the fact that you can get a replacement 3C as a UFA (eg, Goc), through trade (eg, McClement), internal promotion (Gordon, Sjogren, or eventually Eakin) without to much blood, sweat or tears.

If you can get the right 2C without sacrificing MoJo, then by all means, do it.

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06-08-2011, 11:53 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by JawandaPuck View Post
-- you've read my comparables above. The point production may end up being similar but he'll lack those all important "intangibles".
How do you know this? Way too many people around here see a player in his early 20's and in his first year in the league and for some reason feel that whatever that player shows at that exact point in time is pretty much all he will ever show. I don't understand that.

Johansson was the captain of a Swedish WJC team filled with serious players 2 years ago. That says something about what the player brings to the table outside of his on ice abilities IMO. Would you expect to see elements like that in a 20 year old rookie in his first season in North America? No. Would you later in his career when he gets more comfortable in his surroundings? Definitely.

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06-08-2011, 12:08 PM
  #110
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Top-End Talent, High-End 2nd Line Center IMO. Kid's a gem in my books.

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06-08-2011, 12:24 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
How do you know this? Way too many people around here see a player in his early 20's and in his first year in the league and for some reason feel that whatever that player shows at that exact point in time is pretty much all he will ever show. I don't understand that.

Johansson was the captain of a Swedish WJC team filled with serious players 2 years ago. That says something about what the player brings to the table outside of his on ice abilities IMO. Would you expect to see elements like that in a 20 year old rookie in his first season in North America? No. Would you later in his career when he gets more comfortable in his surroundings? Definitely.


Agreed, I think his upside is a good, although maybe not elite, 2C. In fact, IIRC, leadership and intangibles were two things he was incredibly high on in pre-draft scouting reports. I wouldn't mind giving him another season at 3C though to let him develop a little bit before forcing him into the top-6 full time though.

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06-08-2011, 02:25 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JawandaPuck View Post
If you can get the right 2C without sacrificing MoJo, then by all means, do it.
That's the problem. Guys like Backes, Bergeron and Pavelski just don't appear on the market. Even Weiss with no PO experience wasn't really available as it seems.

We could get Fisher (theoretically) but MJ could be ~better (approx) very soon.

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06-08-2011, 02:52 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by ruProf View Post
That's the problem. Guys like Backes, Bergeron and Pavelski just don't appear on the market. Even Weiss with no PO experience wasn't really available as it seems.

We could get Fisher (theoretically) but MJ could be ~better (approx) very soon.
We couldn't get Fisher.

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06-08-2011, 03:51 PM
  #114
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I think he is a solid PK guy and as far as where he fits with the team I think he is a 3rd line center not a 2nd. Kuznetsov probably looks better for the 2nd line center when he come over. I think the Caps need to find a 2nd line center because Semin has no one to pass him the puck. Mojo is a checking center not a top 6 forward.

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06-08-2011, 03:55 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
We couldn't get Fisher.
The price was too high for McPhee, and by a high price I mean something other than a late round pick.

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06-08-2011, 04:31 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by SwedeSpeedBackstrom View Post
The price was too high for McPhee, and by a high price I mean something other than a late round pick.
No, it was unbelievably well reported that he wanted to go to Nashville for his wife's sake and Ottawa was willing to deal him where he wanted to go. You would have had to have been in a cave since February not to have known this.

He was never coming here and it had nothing to do with price. But why let facts get in your way when there is a chance to bash McPhee...?

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07-07-2011, 09:18 PM
  #117
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Marcus Johansson

Im a Sens fan but i've also been a huge fan of Marcus Johansson since his Farjestad days before he was drafted. I was wondering how you Caps fans fans felt he permformed this year? And Where do you expect him to eventually fall into your long term line-up if at all?

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07-07-2011, 09:55 PM
  #118
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Longterm? 1C or 2C

What is not to love.

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07-07-2011, 10:04 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlskiller View Post
Im a Sens fan but i've also been a huge fan of Marcus Johansson since his Farjestad days before he was drafted. I was wondering how you Caps fans fans felt he permformed this year? And Where do you expect him to eventually fall into your long term line-up if at all?
He was passable in the beginning of last year, excellent at the end of last year, and clutch in the playoffs. He will be the entrenched 2C by the time this year is over.

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07-07-2011, 10:30 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlskiller View Post
I was wondering how you Caps fans fans felt he permformed this year?
Chibby pretty much said it. At the start of the year you could tell he belonged in the league but you weren't sure if he fit on a potential contender like the Caps. By the end of year he was much more assertive with the puck making passes that were dangerous to opposing defenses. The guy we saw in the first 39 games was much different then the guy we saw in the last 52.

One of the more underrated aspects of his game was his understanding of position, pokes, and stick lifts. His only weakness defensively was his inability to throw his body around but he made up for it with hockey IQ.

Quote:
And Where do you expect him to eventually fall into your long term line-up if at all?
Second line Center at least for the start of the year. However given his progress last year I would expect him to continue to impress and keep that spot. I also wouldn't be surprised to see him get time on the first line with Ovi and Knuble given how much Bruce likes to experiment with his lines.

He has to improve among other things his faceoff percentage and lower body strength so he doesn't get knocked off the puck as much.

He's an amazing skater who has become a much more assertive playmaker. That will only help him in the future.

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07-07-2011, 11:33 PM
  #121
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He was excellent last year in terms of the fundamentals. If he can raise his numbers a little bit, he can sew up the #2 center position by year's end. I expect it will be a bit of a revolving door at the position for parts of the years, though.

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07-07-2011, 11:56 PM
  #122
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man i can't believe how so many of you guys are selling this guy short.

look at some other centers and their first year production:

thornton, 7 pts in 55 games
kesler, 23 pts
sedin, 29 pts
lecavalier, 28 pts
staal, 31 pts

sure these guys were higher overall picks (kesler was closer to m.jo at 23rd overall).

The fact is johansson has shown some flashes of brilliance, and i suspect if he is given the opportunity, he could easily become a potent force on offense. Who knows what his ceiling will be, it will depend a lot on whether he is given significant powerplay time or not.

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07-08-2011, 01:11 AM
  #123
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I think people felt all along MaJo had huge talent and upside, but what pushed him down the draft chart was multiple concussions. That's probably still the only thing that may keep him from becoming a star in this league. His star is definitely rising, seems like a real gem in the draft for GMGM.

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07-08-2011, 06:49 AM
  #124
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if 90 plays a full season at or above the level he played the final 30 or 40 regular season games and the playoffs, he will be a quality 2c. He was scoring at a 20 goals + rate. His defense is good and will only improve as his experience increases and uses that to make the right reads.

his speed and skill makes him a game breaker. i am not sure that i see a first line center star, but i think his realistic upside is far higher than a solid 3c

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07-08-2011, 07:06 AM
  #125
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My guess is MoJo becomes a high-tier borderline 1/2C, who can also play the 3. He still has plenty of room to develop, but his hockey sense and defensive sense already make him an excellent 3C.

I'd prefer that he be given a shot at the 2C before Laich, due to styles of game, but he may be able to do both roles as the Caps need him.

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