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Flyers Lose Joacim Eriksson's Rights

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Old
06-08-2011, 05:51 PM
  #426
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Unless the player flat-out isn't trying, it's on the organization more than the player. It's up to them to recognize who is worth having or not...before they bust. If a player is doing all that an organization asks, and doesn't live up to their expectations...something is probably wrong with what they expected.
I don't see how that can be. Do you see the talent and the raw ability that Bobrovsky has? It's up to the Flyers to point out the areas he needs to improve on and give him the methods and the teaching that he needs to correct those flaws. But it's completely up to the player to get there. I don't think you have to be a genius to see the talent that Bobrovsky has. It's entirely up to him at this point.

As an example look at a player like Nikolai Zherdev. He has all the physical talent in the World to be a top player in this League. Why isn't he? Are you telling me that's Columbus' fault?

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06-08-2011, 05:56 PM
  #427
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I don't see how that can be. Do you see the talent and the raw ability that Bobrovsky has? It's up to the Flyers to point out the areas he needs to improve on and give him the methods and the teaching that he needs to correct those flaws. But it's completely up to the player to get there. I don't think you have to be a genius to see the talent that Bobrovsky has. It's entirely up to him at this point.

As an example look at a player like Nikolai Zherdev. He has all the physical talent in the World to be a top player in this League. Why isn't he? Are you telling me that's Columbus' fault?
No, they recognized his more uncorrectable flaws and ditched him. As did New York. Philly likely will as well. Hell, they recognized it halfway through the season.

edit: With Bob, as with all goalies of his athleticism, it's going to come down to whether or not he has the mental fortitude to keep up his play consistently. It's up to the organization to figure out if he has it or not, before they spend too much time on him.

edit2: The Flyers apparently expected Lappy to be a great faceoff guy. Is it his fault for not becoming a great faceoff guy, or is it the Flyers' for having thoroughly incorrect expectations?

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Old
06-08-2011, 06:08 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
I chalk it up to players not playing up to their potential. You seem the think the player has no culpability here.
Yeah Roman Malek, Bernd Bruckler, Dov Grumet-Morris, David Tremblay, Jeremy Duchesne, Jakub Kovar, Jacob De Serres and Adam Morrison all could have been NHL goaltenders if they had just tried a little damn harder.

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Other than Leighton, mainly due to an injury, they didn't back fire. And Leighton getting hurt allowed Bobrovsky to enter the picture that's a good thing. A GM over the course of a Season or over a number of years, including drafting players, UFA's, RFA's on both the pro level, lower levels including the AHL, and junior levels, makes who knows how many decisions on players. You list 3 that you think were poor moves to state, see I told you he was a bad GM. it's laughable.
They didn't backfire? Leighton's, Walker's and hopefully Shelley's future with the organization will all be with the AHL.

Again, I don't pick those moves because they backfired. I picked them because it was obvious to the fan base that they would backfire. They are cases where the fan base was right and the professional organization was wrong.


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Poor analogy. It isn't a choice between Walker and Ericksson. One has nothing to do with another. The Flyers didn't feel that Ericksson was worth signing at this time. How hard is it to accept that?
You stated that the Flyers have a limited number of contracts they could give out, and Eriksson wasn't worth one of them. Later you stated that you don't care that Walker is down in the AHL wasting up a contract slot. So you either care about who the Flyers waste contracts on, or you dont.


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No one that I've read has ever stated that Holmgren or any other member of the Flyers is above questioning. yet yuo repeatedly make that comment.
I say that I think the Flyers were wrong to not sign Eriksson. But I am apparently wrong because it was professionals that made that decision. That same logic can be applied to every move the Flyers make.

In another thread you said you thought the Flyers were wrong to give up a 3rd round pick for rights to Bryzgalov. But you are apparently wrong because it was professionals the made that decision to make that trade.

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06-08-2011, 06:14 PM
  #429
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Yeah Roman Malek, Bernd Bruckler, Dov Grumet-Morris, David Tremblay, Jeremy Duchesne, Jakub Kovar, Jacob De Serres and Adam Morrison all could have been NHL goaltenders if they had just tried a little damn harder.
Don't forget about Martin "30 GAA" Houle.

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06-08-2011, 07:00 PM
  #430
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Yeah Roman Malek, Bernd Bruckler, Dov Grumet-Morris, David Tremblay, Jeremy Duchesne, Jakub Kovar, Jacob De Serres and Adam Morrison all could have been NHL goaltenders if they had just tried a little damn harder.
No where did I come even close to saying that any of that. The Flyers have drafted talented Goalies in the past. Some of that blame falls on the players.


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They didn't backfire? Leighton's, Walker's and hopefully Shelley's future with the organization will all be with the AHL.

Again, I don't pick those moves because they backfired. I picked them because it was obvious to the fan base that they would backfire. They are cases where the fan base was right and the professional organization was wrong.
Sure you picked them because you think they backfired. And it wasn't obvious that they backfired. Fans may not have liked the choices right off the bat. I didn't either. But that doesn't mean they knew they would backfire.

The Flyers were looking at Boucher and maybe Backlund as their Goalies last off season if they didn't sign Leighton. Leighton had backstopped the team to the Cup Finals. So Holmgren signed Leighton as a fail safe. They didn't know Bobrovsky would emerge so quickly. Was it a great choice, no? Could they have went after Niemi or another option? Sure. But again, it's real easy after the fact to say see, I told you I was right. I'd like to see you make all the decisions Holmgren has to make and see what your average is. But you ridiculously think that you can get a few right, and think you know better

Again, as I said earlier, Walker is a competent NHL defenseman as a 6th or 7th. If not for Cap issues, he'd be on this team. Shelley may or may not be on this team. But he is exactly what he is supposed to be. And I have no problem with him on this team as a player. I don't like his Cap hit, but he has a role on the team.



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You stated that the Flyers have a limited number of contracts they could give out, and Eriksson wasn't worth one of them. Later you stated that you don't care that Walker is down in the AHL wasting up a contract slot. So you either care about who the Flyers waste contracts on, or you dont.

Your incorrect. The Flyers do only have a limited number of contracts. I never said Eriksson wasn't worth one of them. I have no idea whether he is worth one or not. I said the Flyers don't feel that he is worth a contract at this time. And no I also didn't mention anything about Walker wasting a contract spot. Your also incorrect there. I said Walker can be removed from the Flyers Cap and sent to the AHL, and that I don't care about the money on the payroll as a fan. That's what I said. And also, having a veteran D man on the Phantoms isn't a bad thing. You have to put a team together down there with at least 6 D men taking up some of the 50 contracts. Not a problem having Walker being one of them.


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I say that I think the Flyers were wrong to not sign Eriksson. But I am apparently wrong because it was professionals that made that decision. That same logic can be applied to every move the Flyers make.

You have no legitimate basis to say that they are wrong. We've already covered this. Do we need to go over it again?


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In another thread you said you thought the Flyers were wrong to give up a 3rd round pick for rights to Bryzgalov. But you are apparently wrong because it was professionals the made that decision to make that trade.
I didn't say they were wrong, I said I don't beleive in doing that. I'd rather they talk to him for free on July 1. Which they could do. See I have a factual basis there to make that determination. There is no gray area such as not knowing if a player, Ericksson, is worthy of signing to a contract. It's a completely different situation.

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06-08-2011, 09:34 PM
  #431
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No where did I come even close to saying that any of that. The Flyers have drafted talented Goalies in the past. Some of that blame falls on the players.
If a Goaltender prospect, or any prospect, fails because they do not have the mental drive or toughness to make it in the NHL, that represents as much a failure of the organization as it does the player. When a player is drafted or signed, the mentality of the player as well as the skills of the player need to be taken into account.

So when a prospect fails because of his own mental short comings, it is also a failure of the organization for drafted said player.


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Sure you picked them because you think they backfired. And it wasn't obvious that they backfired. Fans may not have liked the choices right off the bat. I didn't either. But that doesn't mean they knew they would backfire.
When you sign/trade for players to be NHL players and they end up in the AHL because they were not good enough to justify the cap hit that you brought them in on, how is that anything other than a failure?

You're right I didn't know they would backfire. I, along with the majority of the fanbase, strongly believed they would backfire. And the fanbase, not the professionals, were right.

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The Flyers were looking at Boucher and maybe Backlund as their Goalies last off season if they didn't sign Leighton. Leighton had backstopped the team to the Cup Finals. So Holmgren signed Leighton as a fail safe. They didn't know Bobrovsky would emerge so quickly. Was it a great choice, no? Could they have went after Niemi or another option? Sure.
They signed Leighton before Free agency even began. There were many more options other than Leighton available through Free agency and through trade. He was certainly not the last option before a Boucher Backlund tandem.

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But again, it's real easy after the fact to say see, I told you I was right. I'd like to see you make all the decisions Holmgren has to make and see what your average is. But you ridiculously think that you can get a few right, and think you know better
Where did I say I would make a better GM then Holmgren? Again, for the 3rd time I believe, I point these out not to attack Homer as a GM, but to point out situations where the organization made moves that they said would help the team, the majority of the fans disagreed, and the fans, not the professionals were right. So when the fans disagree with the decision not to sign Eriksson, it is possible for them to be right and the organization to be wrong.


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Again, as I said earlier, Walker is a competent NHL defenseman as a 6th or 7th. If not for Cap issues, he'd be on this team. Shelley may or may not be on this team. But he is exactly what he is supposed to be. And I have no problem with him on this team as a player. I don't like his Cap hit, but he has a role on the team.
Regardless of their talent level, they are not worth contracts the Flyers brought them in on, which is what a majority of Flyers fans said at the time they were acquired.


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You have no legitimate basis to say that they are wrong. We've already covered this. Do we need to go over it again?
Why don't I? Because I am not a Flyers Scout? I've read reports from many different sources and spoke with scout who covered SEL at one point and Eriksson's name came up. I didn't randomly pull Eriksson's name out of a hat and say he has potential.

By the way, what basis do you have to say they were right other than they tell you they are right?


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I didn't say they were wrong, I said I don't beleive in doing that. I'd rather they talk to him for free on July 1. Which they could do. See I have a factual basis there to make that determination. There is no gray area such as not knowing if a player, Ericksson, is worthy of signing to a contract. It's a completely different situation.
You disagree with a decision made by the organization. What factual basis do you have other than you're opinion based on what you know of a player to back up your claim?

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06-08-2011, 09:50 PM
  #432
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If a Goaltender prospect, or any prospect, fails because they do not have the mental drive or toughness to make it in the NHL, that represents as much a failure of the organization as it does the player. When a player is drafted or signed, the mentality of the player as well as the skills of the player need to be taken into account.

So when a prospect fails because of his own mental short comings, it is also a failure of the organization for drafted said player.
A player can grade out at a level in pre draft scouting and change during developmental years. People change. A player may lose heart and decide this isn't for him. There are 100's of variables that no one can predict, and shouldn't be expected to predict. There's a reason why they say player evaluations isn't an exact science. What do you think that means?



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When you sign/trade for players to be NHL players and they end up in the AHL because they were not good enough to justify the cap hit that you brought them in on, how is that anything other than a failure?

You're right I didn't know they would backfire. I, along with the majority of the fanbase, strongly believed they would backfire. And the fanbase, not the professionals, were right.
Again, things change. A player turns out to have a downturn in his career and doesn't play as well as he has in the past. He get's physical issues that affect his play. Etc. Again, it's not an exact science. Again, you get one or two right and think you know better. As I said before, make all the decisions that Holmgren has to make and see how you grade out.


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They signed Leighton before Free agency even began. There were many more options other than Leighton available through Free agency and through trade. He was certainly not the last option before a Boucher Backlund tandem.
I didn't say he was the last option. Clearly I mentioned other options such as Niemi.


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Where did I say I would make a better GM then Holmgren? Again, for the 3rd time I believe, I point these out not to attack Homer as a GM, but to point out situations where the organization made moves that they said would help the team, the majority of the fans disagreed, and the fans, not the professionals were right. So when the fans disagree with the decision not to sign Eriksson, it is possible for them to be right and the organization to be wrong.
I never said it wasn't possible for people to be right about Ericksson and the Flyers could be wrong. What I said is how can you criticize them for making a mistake there when you don't know that it is? This is like the 5th time I've stated this to you. How hard is it to grasp?


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Regardless of their talent level, they are not worth contracts the Flyers brought them in on, which is what a majority of Flyers fans said at the time they were acquired.
There's a lot of players on this team that aren't worth their Cap hit.



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Why don't I? Because I am not a Flyers Scout? I've read reports from many different sources and spoke with scout who covered SEL at one point and Eriksson's name came up. I didn't randomly pull Eriksson's name out of a hat and say he has potential.

By the way, what basis do you have to say they were right other than they tell you they are right?
You don't have any basis to say they're wrong. None at all. Covered SEL at one point? What does that mean, that he's no longer covering SEL? If so, is that info up to date.

Again, I'll repeat for like the 6th time. I never said they were right. Only that based on what Holmgren said I understand why, with what they feel about the player. I've also repeatedly said that I don't know they're right. I also don't know that they're wrong. So for the umpteenth time, how can I criticize someone for a decision that's made, when I don't know it to be wrong?



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You disagree with a decision made by the organization. What factual basis do you have other than you're opinion based on what you know of a player to back up your claim?

The factual basis I have is that I know that the Flyers could negotiate and try and sign a UFA on July 1 without giving up any draft picks. That's pretty cut and dry.

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06-08-2011, 11:27 PM
  #433
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Again, things change. A player turns out to have a downturn in his career and doesn't play as well as he has in the past. He get's physical issues that affect his play. Etc. Again, it's not an exact science.
Leighton, Shelley and Walker did not have downturns in their careers. The performance they gave the Flyers is consistent with their performances throughout their careers. The reality is just that they aren't that good.

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Again, you get one or two right and think you know better. As I said before, make all the decisions that Holmgren has to make and see how you grade out.
Am I not speaking english? Again... not at all what I'm saying. These are just examples of organization, with all the scouts they have watching players, with all the game tape they have of those players and all the hockey minds they have making decisions can be wrong about players. And fans, operating on much more limited knowledge of those players, can be right. So why dismiss those fan's opinions now simply because again they are operating on more limited knowledge than the team?

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I didn't say he was the last option. Clearly I mentioned other options such as Niemi.
"looking at Boucher and maybe Backlund as their Goalies last off season if they didn't sign Leighton"

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I never said it wasn't possible for people to be right about Ericksson and the Flyers could be wrong. What I said is how can you criticize them for making a mistake there when you don't know that it is? This is like the 5th time I've stated this to you. How hard is it to grasp?
Because that is the inherent nature of an opinion. When you an expression an opinion you can not be sure it is right or wrong. That doesn't mean you shouldn't express it.

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There's a lot of players on this team that aren't worth their Cap hit.
One mistake does not justify another.


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You don't have any basis to say they're wrong. None at all.
Again... Why? At what point are Flyers fans allowed to express an opinion about this move?


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Covered SEL at one point? What does that mean, that he's no longer covering SEL? If so, is that info up to date.
Covered up until around midway through this season if I remember right. He was then moved to cover NCAA I believe.


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Again, I'll repeat for like the 6th time. I never said they were right. Only that based on what Holmgren said I understand why, with what they feel about the player. I've also repeatedly said that I don't know they're right. I also don't know that they're wrong. So for the umpteenth time, how can I criticize someone for a decision that's made, when I don't know it to be wrong?
Because you are a human being capable of independent thought and expressing your own beliefs on topics. You are on a forum where fans of a team express their opinions of the goings on of that team.


Last edited by Coppy: 06-08-2011 at 11:47 PM.
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06-09-2011, 05:32 AM
  #434
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
A player can grade out at a level in pre draft scouting and change during developmental years. People change. A player may lose heart and decide this isn't for him. There are 100's of variables that no one can predict, and shouldn't be expected to predict. There's a reason why they say player evaluations isn't an exact science. What do you think that means?





Again, things change. A player turns out to have a downturn in his career and doesn't play as well as he has in the past. He get's physical issues that affect his play. Etc. Again, it's not an exact science. Again, you get one or two right and think you know better. As I said before, make all the decisions that Holmgren has to make and see how you grade out.




I didn't say he was the last option. Clearly I mentioned other options such as Niemi.




I never said it wasn't possible for people to be right about Ericksson and the Flyers could be wrong. What I said is how can you criticize them for making a mistake there when you don't know that it is? This is like the 5th time I've stated this to you. How hard is it to grasp?




There's a lot of players on this team that aren't worth their Cap hit.





You don't have any basis to say they're wrong. None at all. Covered SEL at one point? What does that mean, that he's no longer covering SEL? If so, is that info up to date.

Again, I'll repeat for like the 6th time. I never said they were right. Only that based on what Holmgren said I understand why, with what they feel about the player. I've also repeatedly said that I don't know they're right. I also don't know that they're wrong. So for the umpteenth time, how can I criticize someone for a decision that's made, when I don't know it to be wrong?






The factual basis I have is that I know that the Flyers could negotiate and try and sign a UFA on July 1 without giving up any draft picks. That's pretty cut and dry.
Good points all

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06-09-2011, 06:39 AM
  #435
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Leighton, Shelley and Walker did not have downturns in their careers. The performance they gave the Flyers is consistent with their performances throughout their careers. The reality is just that they aren't that good.
The comment you responded to here wasn't specifically about Leighton, Shelley, and Walker. It was about all players, and more related to the subject of players drafted and not working out. You have tunnel vision towards those 3 as if they're the defining element to Holmgren's legacy as GM


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Am I not speaking english? Again... not at all what I'm saying. These are just examples of organization, with all the scouts they have watching players, with all the game tape they have of those players and all the hockey minds they have making decisions can be wrong about players. And fans, operating on much more limited knowledge of those players, can be right. So why dismiss those fan's opinions now simply because again they are operating on more limited knowledge than the team?
Nothing has been dismissed. And with this response you prove my point. You don't have the information they have. You don't have the information to say that the FLyers made a mistake in not signing Ericksson.

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Because that is the inherent nature of an opinion. When you an expression an opinion you can not be sure it is right or wrong. That doesn't mean you shouldn't express it.


One mistake does not justify another.

Again... Why? At what point are Flyers fans allowed to express an opinion about this move?

Covered up until around midway through this season if I remember right. He was then moved to cover NCAA I believe.

Because you are a human being capable of independent thought and expressing your own beliefs on topics. You are on a forum where fans of a team express their opinions of the goings on of that team.
When I express an opinion, I try to make in from an informed position, and not make a irrational, poorly thought out opinion. Not based on any factual information.

The comment one mistake doesn't justify another makes no sense. Good luck looking for a GM that doesn't make any mistakes.

And there are a lot of moves made that fans label mistakes, that really aren't mistakes.

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06-09-2011, 11:34 AM
  #436
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The comment you responded to here wasn't specifically about Leighton, Shelley, and Walker. It was about all players, and more related to the subject of players drafted and not working out. You have tunnel vision towards those 3 as if they're the defining element to Holmgren's legacy as GM
Ugh.

"Other than Leighton, mainly due to an injury, they didn't back fire."

"They didn't backfire? Leighton's, Walker's and hopefully Shelley's future with the organization will all be with the AHL."


"Sure you picked them because you think they backfired. And it wasn't obvious that they backfired. Fans may not have liked the choices right off the bat. I didn't either. But that doesn't mean they knew they would backfire."


"When you sign/trade for players to be NHL players and they end up in the AHL because they were not good enough to justify the cap hit that you brought them in on, how is that anything other than a failure?"


"Again, things change. A player turns out to have a downturn in his career and doesn't play as well as he has in the past. He get's physical issues that affect his play. Etc. Again, it's not an exact science."


"Leighton, Shelley and Walker did not have downturns in their careers. The performance they gave the Flyers is consistent with their performances throughout their careers. The reality is just that they aren't that good."


So who are we talking about now?

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Nothing has been dismissed.
I and other Flyers fan have expressed the opinion that it is a mistake to not sign Eriksson. But we are not allowed to express that opinion because we don't have access to the resources the Flyers have? How is that not dismissing our opinions?

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And with this response you prove my point. You don't have the information they have. You don't have the information to say that the FLyers made a mistake in not signing Ericksson.
Any time any team makes any move, they will be operating on more information than the fans. Does that mean the fans can not question those moves? Can fans only express their opinions when the have access to all the information that their team has?


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When I express an opinion, I try to make in from an informed position, and not make a irrational, poorly thought out opinion. Not based on any factual information.
I'm sorry mine, and other's opinions don't meet your litmus test as to what constitutes an informed opinion.


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The comment one mistake doesn't justify another makes no sense.
You justified 3 players not being worth their contracts by there being other players not worth their contracts, and I'm the one not making sense?



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Good luck looking for a GM that doesn't make any mistakes.
Once again, not at all what I am arguing.

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And there are a lot of moves made that fans label mistakes, that really aren't mistakes.
So fans just shouldn't speak up when they believe their team made a mistake?

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06-09-2011, 11:46 AM
  #437
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And there are a lot of moves made that fans label mistakes, that really aren't mistakes.
so tell me then, what would you consiter a mistake this organization has made. I know you love to stroke Holmgren so we will see how this list is going to be.
For the record I think he made he made 3 glaring mistakes last year alone

the Gagne trade(you dont trade an expiring contract for another one that has 2 years left on it and a terrible cap hit as well. Matt Walker ****ing blows)
the Shelley signing ( I would of been ok with 1 year. Not 3. 3 was just stupid.)
the Leighton resigning( 2 things here. the cap hit and the timing of the signing, both were a horrendous and probably not well thought out decisions).

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06-09-2011, 04:57 PM
  #438
VanSciver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coppy View Post
Ugh.

"Other than Leighton, mainly due to an injury, they didn't back fire."

"They didn't backfire? Leighton's, Walker's and hopefully Shelley's future with the organization will all be with the AHL."


"Sure you picked them because you think they backfired. And it wasn't obvious that they backfired. Fans may not have liked the choices right off the bat. I didn't either. But that doesn't mean they knew they would backfire."


"When you sign/trade for players to be NHL players and they end up in the AHL because they were not good enough to justify the cap hit that you brought them in on, how is that anything other than a failure?"


"Again, things change. A player turns out to have a downturn in his career and doesn't play as well as he has in the past. He get's physical issues that affect his play. Etc. Again, it's not an exact science."


"Leighton, Shelley and Walker did not have downturns in their careers. The performance they gave the Flyers is consistent with their performances throughout their careers. The reality is just that they aren't that good."


So who are we talking about now?
You brought up those 3 players, not me. When you mentioned them specifically, I responded. And you wanted to single out 3 moves out who knows how many in a feeble attempt to state tht Holmgren is a bad GM.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Coppy View Post
I and other Flyers fan have expressed the opinion that it is a mistake to not sign Eriksson. But we are not allowed to express that opinion because we don't have access to the resources the Flyers have? How is that not dismissing our opinions?
I haven't dismissed your opinions. If I dismissed them I wouldn't respond to them. I would ignore them.
I've never once said that you and other Flyers fans aren't allowed to express an opinion.
What kind of opinion do you want to give. A well thought out informed opinion. Or a knee jerk off the cuff uninformed opinion like the one you gave earlier that if the Flyers don't sign Bryzgalov in the next week, they won't? While being uninformed of the Flyers current tagging space issues. Then when you were corrected, yuo tried to spin your way out of it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Coppy View Post
Any time any team makes any move, they will be operating on more information than the fans. Does that mean the fans can not question those moves? Can fans only express their opinions when the have access to all the information that their team has?




I'm sorry mine, and other's opinions don't meet your litmus test as to what constitutes an informed opinion.
Fans can question anything they choose. They can also choose to inform themselves before giving an opinion.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Coppy View Post
You justified 3 players not being worth their contracts by there being other players not worth their contracts, and I'm the one not making sense?
I didn't justify anything. I gave my opinion on what I thought the reasoning was behind the moves.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Coppy View Post

Once again, not at all what I am arguing.



So fans just shouldn't speak up when they believe their team made a mistake?
You can speak up on anything you choose. But why not get some facts and take all the factors into consideration before making a rush to judgement when you don't know the facts.

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Old
06-09-2011, 05:27 PM
  #439
Viller
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Nobody will even remember his name when we'll have team russia in net, why does this have 17 pages? God damn...

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Old
06-09-2011, 07:32 PM
  #440
Coppy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
You brought up those 3 players, not me. When you mentioned them specifically, I responded.
And you said that bit of the conversation was "about all players, and more related to the subject of players drafted and not working out." when clearly it wasn't


Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
And you wanted to single out 3 moves out who knows how many in a feeble attempt to state tht Holmgren is a bad GM.
I'm going to say this slowly because you clearly are having trouble grasping this...

That
is
not
the
point
I
am
making


Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
I haven't dismissed your opinions. If I dismissed them I wouldn't respond to them. I would ignore them.
I've never once said that you and other Flyers fans aren't allowed to express an opinion.
No, that would be not dignifying them with a response. Dismissing them would be like someone saying like you don't know what you are talking about because you are not informed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
What kind of opinion do you want to give. A well thought out informed opinion. Or a knee jerk off the cuff uninformed opinion like the one you gave earlier that if the Flyers don't sign Bryzgalov in the next week, they won't? While being uninformed of the Flyers current tagging space issues. Then when you were corrected, yuo tried to spin your way out of it.
I'm glad we have someone around here that can decide what constitutes an informed post. I'm also glad we have someone who knows the intentions of posters. I meant what I posted. And I did that based on the history of how the Flyers have done this in the past.

When the Flyers traded for Pronger, they had a full year before they needed to resign him. They signed him within 10 days of the trade.

When the Flyers traded for the rights to Timonen and Hartnell they had weeks before they needed to sign him. They had deals in place within a day of the trade.

When the Flyers traded for the rights to Hamhuis they had weeks to sign him. After a week they had enough negotiations to know they had no chance to sign him and traded his rights for what they could get.

The Flyers will not wait 1 week just to get past preliminary negotiations. When Chris posted that there wouldn't be any real discussions until we knew what the cap was, I stated that I think teams pretty much know what it will be and tried to clarify my position. Then you mentioned tagging spaces, quoting my original post and ignoring my clarification, 8 hours later. That was some amazing backpedaling by me to defy the laws of time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Fans can question anything they choose. They can also choose to inform themselves before giving an opinion.
Again, sorry mine, or pretty everyone else critical of this move's opinions don't meet your standards for "informed"


Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
You can speak up on anything you choose. But why not get some facts and take all the factors into consideration before making a rush to judgement when you don't know the facts.
So now I made a rush to judgement? I didn't post in this topic until it was 8 pages long, a full day after the news broke.


Anyway, I'm done with this topic. Its obvious to me that you just don't respect my and many others opinions when it comes to this, so there is no point arguing.


Last edited by Coppy: 06-09-2011 at 07:42 PM.
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Old
06-09-2011, 09:31 PM
  #441
infidelappel*
 
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While we're on the subject of questioning doctors for their medical advice (and experts in general), let me share a fun story.


As a kid, I had a predisposition to tonsilitis and strep throat. I had both fairly frequently.

When I was in sixth grade, I felt sick and my throat hurt. I knew immediately it was strep throat. I went to my doctor and he took a look, took my temp and saw no fever, and decided I was fine. I said I knew it was strep, and he should do a strep culture.

He humored me. Two days later, he called back saying the culture came back most definitely positive, and prescribed me the appropriate medicine.

I WAS ELEVEN YEARS OLD AND I WAS RIGHT WHEN THE MEDICAL EXPERT WAS WRONG.


So no, Holmgren's "expertise and inside information" doesn't make him beyond questioning.


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 06-09-2011 at 09:39 PM.
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