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Jackets shopping the 8th Overall. PHI, EDM interested?

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Old
06-09-2011, 07:28 AM
  #101
CBJ Bob
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I treat AP reporting a rumor as the kiss of death. Carter will not be coming here.

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06-09-2011, 07:35 AM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
Taking a step back from the hot and heavy Carter for 8th/Voracek discussion to think about the ramifications or what position we would have in our top 6.

If it happens (I'm not holding my breath) that gives Columbus, suddenly, nice depth at Center. Almost Boston esque before Savard went down. However, something else would have to be in the works because that pulls away one of our top 6 wing. Does Vermette, Brassard or Johansen move to wing? Is this the last chance for Filatov? Does Brassard or Vermette get moved? Do we look to sign Lieno or Fleischmann?

I mean the addition of Carter would really shore up the center position not to mention he is a decent faceoff guy and plays in all three zones (at least when I've seen him play). I don't think a Calvert or Kubalik or Atkinson is ready for top 6 minutes (obviously I'm not the coach ). I'm a little concerned but boy if this happened....I would be pretty happy. Maybe Brassard ++ for Burns? Vermette ++ for Burns?

Damn...wish something would happen one way or another!
Sign a 'tweener type winger (or trade for Tyler Kennedy's rights).
I'll be honest, unless trading Brassard (by himself or in a package) for a good top pairing defenseman can be accomplished, and if you've decided that, upon acquiring Jeff Carter, you need to trade a center, I work long and hard to find a new home for Sammy Pahlsson.

I've beaten the "slowly-with-Johansen" drum repeatedly this offseason, and this won't be the first time I've posted that I like:
Carter
Brassard
Vermette
Johansen/MacKenzie

to start the season anyway.

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06-09-2011, 07:46 AM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJ Bob View Post
I treat AP reporting a rumor as the kiss of death. Carter will not be coming here.
I still remember his Ryan Malone stuff.... You'd think Malone was signed, sealed and delivered and then you find out that Columbus wasn't even on the radar...



I feel like this needs to be posted here too:

Ryder, Halak and 2nd for Nash


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06-09-2011, 08:06 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
Sign a 'tweener type winger (or trade for Tyler Kennedy's rights).
I'll be honest, unless trading Brassard (by himself or in a package) for a good top pairing defenseman can be accomplished, and if you've decided that, upon acquiring Jeff Carter, you need to trade a center, I work long and hard to find a new home for Sammy Pahlsson.

I've beaten the "slowly-with-Johansen" drum repeatedly this offseason, and this won't be the first time I've posted that I like:
Carter
Brassard
Vermette
Johansen/MacKenzie

to start the season anyway.
That looks to be the strongest we've ever been, down the middle. Even if Brass could be traded,

Carter
Vermette
Johansen
Pahlsson/MacKenzie

wouldn't look bad, either! Johan could start out on the wing on either of the bottom two lines and then move into the center slot as he becomes comfortable. I'm more confident with DMac than most, so I wouldn't be opposed to him on the third line, even if we'd be looking at it as more of a third scoring line, rather than a true checking line.

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06-09-2011, 08:08 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJ Bob View Post
I treat AP reporting a rumor as the kiss of death. Carter will not be coming here.
Let AP reprot what he want I believe carter will come here.

Btw, if we would get Carter UFA d-men as Bieksa or Wisnievski could interest to play here.

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06-09-2011, 09:14 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
Alot of people hate hearing the truth.
Or hearing it constantly combined with speculation. But we tolerate Portzline all the same.

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06-09-2011, 09:20 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
That looks to be the strongest we've ever been, down the middle. Even if Brass could be traded,

Carter
Vermette
Johansen
Pahlsson/MacKenzie

wouldn't look bad, either! Johan could start out on the wing on either of the bottom two lines and then move into the center slot as he becomes comfortable. I'm more confident with DMac than most, so I wouldn't be opposed to him on the third line, even if we'd be looking at it as more of a third scoring line, rather than a true checking line.
Likewise here.

Honestly, I think Pahlsson is the odd man out at C; the only reason I don't keep trying to find speculative takers for him is because if we don't trade for Carter AND The Johan somehow proves not NHL ready, we could end up with just Brass-Vermette-MacKenzie-SomeAHLScrub. Which would be... less than ideal.

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06-09-2011, 09:36 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJ Bob View Post
I treat AP reporting a rumor as the kiss of death. Carter will not be coming here.
The cool thing about AP and the rest of the Dispatch team doing things like this is that he can criticize the org (ie Howson) for not doing it after it doesn't happen (see: Dineen, Tugnutt, Denis)

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Old
06-09-2011, 10:09 AM
  #109
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I really don't wanna trade jake. Maybe if the trade goes down we can submit and offer sheet the flyers can't match.

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Old
06-09-2011, 11:12 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerBlood1 View Post
I really don't wanna trade jake. Maybe if the trade goes down we can submit and offer sheet the flyers can't match.
I was going to say that trading away our first-rounder as part of that deal would make this impossible... but the first-rounder that would go as compensation would be 2012. Hmmm.

Of course, the real cost would be turning Howson and the Jackets organization into leaguewide pariahs.


Honestly, the more I think about this possible deal, the more ambivalent I am. I do not believe moving Brassard or Vermette to the wing is a long-term solution any more than I think Umberger at center is - it's a stopgap, an option if you've got injuries and have temporary holes to fill. That's all.

Accordingly, we'd have a top-6 roster hole, and we'd have to really, really hope that someone like Calvert can step up. That bothers me. (We likely can't sign a winger in free agency, because we need that money for the blueline.)

Also, that would mean we have six centers on the team - Carter, Vermette, Brassard, MacKenzie, Pahlsson, and likely Johansen. And of those, four are known to be better at center (C,V,B,P), and another one (J) we want to develop as a center. MacKenzie's the only one that might be movable to wing without downgrading talent. Can you say, massive logjam?

I'm also entirely convinced that Voracek will likely play well in Philadelphia, have what'll look a breakout season, and by November half this board will be screaming about how stupid we were to trade "this obvious perennial All-Star" for "a 60-point scorer" and Howson should be fired immediately et cetera et cetera.

I still like the idea of having Carter on this team. I think he'd be a real asset. I'm just worrying about some of the details. At this point, though, I can't lose. Either the deal goes down and we get another star on the offense, or the deal doesn't go down and we keep our rising star on the wing. It's alllll goooood, bay-bee.

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Old
06-09-2011, 11:16 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
I was going to say that trading away our first-rounder as part of that deal would make this impossible... but the first-rounder that would go as compensation would be 2012. Hmmm.

Of course, the real cost would be turning Howson and the Jackets organization into leaguewide pariahs.


Honestly, the more I think about this possible deal, the more ambivalent I am. I do not believe moving Brassard or Vermette to the wing is a long-term solution any more than I think Umberger at center is - it's a stopgap, an option if you've got injuries and have temporary holes to fill. That's all.

Accordingly, we'd have a top-6 roster hole, and we'd have to really, really hope that someone like Calvert can step up. That bothers me. (We likely can't sign a winger in free agency, because we need that money for the blueline.)

Also, that would mean we have six centers on the team - Carter, Vermette, Brassard, MacKenzie, Pahlsson, and likely Johansen. And of those, four are known to be better at center (C,V,B,P), and another one (J) we want to develop as a center. MacKenzie's the only one that might be movable to wing without downgrading talent. Can you say, massive logjam?

I'm also entirely convinced that Voracek will likely play well in Philadelphia, have what'll look a breakout season, and by November half this board will be screaming about how stupid we were to trade him for "a 60-point scorer".

I still like the idea of having Carter on this team. I think he'd be a real asset. I'm just worrying about some of the details. At this point, though, I can't lose. Either the deal goes down and we get another star on the offense, or the deal doesn't go down and we keep our rising star on the wing. It's alllll goooood, bay-bee.
Here is the way I look at it.

Are we a better team with Carter or Voracek and the #8 pick? Carter.
Is it easier to find a top 6 C or a top 6 W? Top 6 W.

Both of those tell me we should make the trade.

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Old
06-09-2011, 11:17 AM
  #112
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Blue Jackets: Philadelphia center is top trade target for Howson

http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/live/...n.html?sid=101

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Old
06-09-2011, 11:29 AM
  #113
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I'd hate to see Jake go as I think he has good potential if used correctly. But if he nets us Carter, its a no brainer. But we'll still need a significant upgrade to the defense

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06-09-2011, 11:31 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
Here is the way I look at it.

Are we a better team with Carter or Voracek and the #8 pick? Carter.
Is it easier to find a top 6 C or a top 6 W? Top 6 W.

Both of those tell me we should make the trade.
This is a faulty way to look at it. Are we a better team with Carter and Carle as our additions, or keeping Voracek and the #8 and adding someone like Pitkanen or Campbell? Granted, that example is equally faulty, but the point is that we're spending extra on top-6 forwards when that's someplace we need to start thinking about saving on.

G-d forbid we try to grab a winger in free agency - that's going to start putting us up against the cap ceiling.

Carter's got an excellent contract, so I still think it's a great idea. I'm just still very, very worried about the blueline. We need another top-pairing guy, and Carle (if we grab him in this deal) ain't it - he's complimentary-only w/r/t top pairing, much like Beauchemin.

I also admit that part of my worries is that I didn't like how Brass did on the wing. If he can do better there with more practice, then about 99% of my already small worries with this trade idea go floating out the window like the fading memories of a bad dream.

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Old
06-09-2011, 11:35 AM
  #115
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Legitimate top line center and d-man in the same offseason? That's just crazy talk.

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06-09-2011, 11:49 AM
  #116
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Assume the following trades and UFA signings:

Voracek/8th/Goloubef for Carter/Carle (the most popular variant from our perspective)
Kristian Huselius traded for Filip Kuba (save cap and salary, and boost the blueline)
Jussi Jokinen signed for $4m/year (to fill the Huselius hole; that seems to be what his salary demands are)
Joni Pitkanen signed for $5m/year (Jussi's BFF, and a valuable blueliner)
A Christmas Miracle occurs and Derick Brassard learns to play well on the wing (to fill the Voracek hole)

Then you could have a roster like this:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Derick Brassard ($3.200m) / Antoine Vermette ($3.750m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Jussi Jokinen ($4.000m) / Jeff Carter ($5.272m) / R.J. Umberger ($3.750m)
Matt Calvert ($0.891m) / Ryan Johansen ($1.945m) / Maxim Mayorov ($0.862m)
Derek MacKenzie ($0.600m) / Samuel Pahlsson ($2.650m) / Derek Dorsett ($0.562m)
Jared Boll ($0.725m)

DEFENSEMEN
Fedor Tyutin ($2.843m) / Joni Pitkanen ($5.000m)
Matt Carle ($3.437m) / Filip Kuba ($3.700m)
Marc Methot ($1.666m) / Grant Clitsome ($0.850m)
Kris Russell ($1.300m)

GOALTENDERS
Steve Mason ($2.900m) / Jose Theodore ($1.500m)

BUYOUTS: Duvie Westcott ($0.616m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,823,977; BONUSES: $1,350,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,376,023


Note that a lot of assumptions are made w/r/t trades and signings going our way, it's short a depth forward, is MASSIVELY dependent on Brass learning to play the wing, and we are dangerously close to the cap. This is not assured or even likely.

It's a heck of a competitive team on paper, though.

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Old
06-09-2011, 11:52 AM
  #117
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the reason for the carter deal to me is, well, actually, multiple...

a) he's a man crush of mine
b) 11 yrs at 5.2m for a #1 Center...think about it...approx 2m less than market
c) 70~ish goals from Nash and Carter....drool...
d) the poss of then flipping Brass/Vermette/Pahlsson in a package for a defenseman

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06-09-2011, 11:53 AM
  #118
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Viq - you forgot Commie's buyout...lol

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06-09-2011, 11:59 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fro View Post
Viq - you forgot Commie's buyout...lol
Had it in the back of my mind all this time but forgot it when it came time to post. CG's cap calculator doesn't let you add buyouts.

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06-09-2011, 12:10 PM
  #120
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I agree with a lot of you, I don't want to see Jake go. If we could pull off some deal where we kept him, imagine that top line, Jake, Carter, Nash. I think that would be come one of the best lines in the NHL. But I do agree I think Jake will be bait for a trade this year. If not, we would have had him locked up in a new contract by now.

As someone else pointed out, if we do pick up Carter, we are going to be full of Centers. What do we do with them all? If do pick up Carter, I expect Vermette or Pahlsson to be shopped around.

But I also wouldn't be surprised if we are trying to pick up a couple defense men with Jake and the #8.

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06-09-2011, 12:12 PM
  #121
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I agree with a lot of you, I don't want to see Jake go. If we could pull off some deal where we kept him, imagine that top line, Jake, Carter, Nash. I think that would be come one of the best lines in the NHL. But I do agree I think Jake will be bait for a trade this year. If not, we would have had him locked up in a new contract by now.

As someone else pointed out, if we do pick up Carter, we are going to be full of Centers. What do we do with them all? If do pick up Carter, I expect Vermette or Pahlsson to be shopped around.

But I also wouldn't be surprised if we are trying to pick up a couple defense men with Jake and the #8.
Why not Nash/Carter/Brassard?

Better passer better hands better shot. He's also the worst in the circle amongst the centers.. which would be another reason (albeit not an ideal one) to move him away from the middle

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06-09-2011, 12:13 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Assume the following trades and UFA signings:

Voracek/8th/Goloubef for Carter/Carle (the most popular variant from our perspective)
Kristian Huselius traded for Filip Kuba (save cap and salary, and boost the blueline)
Jussi Jokinen signed for $4m/year (to fill the Huselius hole; that seems to be what his salary demands are)
Joni Pitkanen signed for $5m/year (Jussi's BFF, and a valuable blueliner)
A Christmas Miracle occurs and Derick Brassard learns to play well on the wing (to fill the Voracek hole)

Then you could have a roster like this:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Derick Brassard ($3.200m) / Antoine Vermette ($3.750m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Jussi Jokinen ($4.000m) / Jeff Carter ($5.272m) / R.J. Umberger ($3.750m)
Matt Calvert ($0.891m) / Ryan Johansen ($1.945m) / Maxim Mayorov ($0.862m)
Derek MacKenzie ($0.600m) / Samuel Pahlsson ($2.650m) / Derek Dorsett ($0.562m)
Jared Boll ($0.725m)

DEFENSEMEN
Fedor Tyutin ($2.843m) / Joni Pitkanen ($5.000m)
Matt Carle ($3.437m) / Filip Kuba ($3.700m)
Marc Methot ($1.666m) / Grant Clitsome ($0.850m)
Kris Russell ($1.300m)

GOALTENDERS
Steve Mason ($2.900m) / Jose Theodore ($1.500m)

BUYOUTS: Duvie Westcott ($0.616m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,823,977; BONUSES: $1,350,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,376,023


Note that a lot of assumptions are made w/r/t trades and signings going our way, it's short a depth forward, is MASSIVELY dependent on Brass learning to play the wing, and we are dangerously close to the cap. This is not assured or even likely.

It's a heck of a competitive team on paper, though.
i don't think it would be a miracle.... he already plays pass first at center and it's not like we need him for faceoffs or his spectacular defense or anything.

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06-09-2011, 12:20 PM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Assume the following trades and UFA signings:

Voracek/8th/Goloubef for Carter/Carle (the most popular variant from our perspective)
Kristian Huselius traded for Filip Kuba (save cap and salary, and boost the blueline)
Jussi Jokinen signed for $4m/year (to fill the Huselius hole; that seems to be what his salary demands are)
Joni Pitkanen signed for $5m/year (Jussi's BFF, and a valuable blueliner)
A Christmas Miracle occurs and Derick Brassard learns to play well on the wing (to fill the Voracek hole)

Then you could have a roster like this:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Derick Brassard ($3.200m) / Antoine Vermette ($3.750m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Jussi Jokinen ($4.000m) / Jeff Carter ($5.272m) / R.J. Umberger ($3.750m)
Matt Calvert ($0.891m) / Ryan Johansen ($1.945m) / Maxim Mayorov ($0.862m)
Derek MacKenzie ($0.600m) / Samuel Pahlsson ($2.650m) / Derek Dorsett ($0.562m)
Jared Boll ($0.725m)

DEFENSEMEN
Fedor Tyutin ($2.843m) / Joni Pitkanen ($5.000m)
Matt Carle ($3.437m) / Filip Kuba ($3.700m)
Marc Methot ($1.666m) / Grant Clitsome ($0.850m)
Kris Russell ($1.300m)

GOALTENDERS
Steve Mason ($2.900m) / Jose Theodore ($1.500m)

BUYOUTS: Duvie Westcott ($0.616m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,823,977; BONUSES: $1,350,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,376,023


Note that a lot of assumptions are made w/r/t trades and signings going our way, it's short a depth forward, is MASSIVELY dependent on Brass learning to play the wing, and we are dangerously close to the cap. This is not assured or even likely.

It's a heck of a competitive team on paper, though.
That's a playoff team right there! I would rearrange the forward lines slightly, but it's irrelevant since they get jumbled up once the puck drops anyway.

Antoine Vermette ($3.750m) / Jeff Carter ($5.272m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Jussi Jokinen ($4.000m) / Derrick Brassard ($3.200m) / R.J. Umberger ($3.750m)
Matt Calvert ($0.891m) / Samuel Pahlsson ($2.650m) / Tomas Kubalik
Jared Boll ($0.725m) / Derek MacKenzie ($0.600m) / Derek Dorsett ($0.562m)
Maxim Mayorov ($0.862m)

Ryan Johansen ($1.945m) stays in juniors unless he really lights it up in training camp.

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Old
06-09-2011, 12:26 PM
  #124
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I'm skeptical that PHI would part w/Carter, given the contract terms, but between Carter and Carle, I'd take Carter for sure. I wouldn't be happy to see Voracek + 8th pick for Carle's one year of service and the questions about how good he'll be when he's not with other star D-men. I'm trying to be optimistic and fight the knee-jerk reaction that the CBJ will always get the poorer of two possible deals, but I would not be shocked to see Howson deal Voracek+ for Carle. I would be disappointed, though.

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Old
06-09-2011, 12:35 PM
  #125
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I think vermette with his speed could convert to wing better than brass

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