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06-09-2011, 12:01 PM
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
if Ovechkin was a Flyer people would whine over his high and wide or his low and outside shot attempts.
Or about how he's a puck hog, etc. I'm convinced that people here would actually want him traded...I truly wouldn't be surprised.


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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Not really b/c again Ovechkin is not comparable to Carter and you cannot compare our situation and multiple needs or cap situation to that of Washington. Two different teams with different needs and options to address those needs. You are exaggerating things...

Not really. Washington needs to make a lot of changes, what better way to do that than trading OV? I mean, they'd be able to get the most value.

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Old
06-09-2011, 12:03 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Or about how he's a puck hog, etc. I'm convinced that people here would actually want him traded...I truly wouldn't be surprised.
yep, you score 50 plus goals and its but, but hes a 1 dimensional player!

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06-09-2011, 12:07 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Or about how he's a puck hog, etc. I'm convinced that people here would actually want him traded...I truly wouldn't be surprised.





Not really. Washington needs to make a lot of changes, what better way to do that than trading OV? I mean, they'd be able to get the most value.
Once again you are overly simplyfying your argument with a baseless blanket statement and a straw man rebuttal at that. There is like...um no reasoning behind it whatsoever.

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06-09-2011, 12:09 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Once again you are overly simplyfying your argument with a baseless blanket statement and a straw man rebuttal at that. There is like...um no reasoning behind it whatsoever.
My statement is this: Carter is worth more to this team ON it, than he is OFF it. Therefore, trading him is foolish.

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06-09-2011, 12:13 PM
  #130
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I highly doubt Holmgren is going to trade a core player. He's very proud of the team he put together, and trading a guy like Carter is far down on his list of available options.

The whispers of Philly and Florida trading seem to make the best sense. Versteeg for one of their RFAs and a pick might work for us -- we don't need a world class player, just someone who can play in our top 9.

If you want to make it a bigger deal, you could go Versteeg, Carle for Ellerby, RFA forward, and maybe something else. That would give us a good deal of breathing room.

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06-09-2011, 12:16 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
My statement is this: Carter is worth more to this team ON it, than he is OFF it. Therefore, trading him is foolish.
It's an opinion and I can accept it but don't have the same opinion. Some agree with you and others don't. We're all entitled to our opinions but not entitled to our own facts. I guess we won't know unless he's gone how important he really is to the team. Usually works that way. I'm sure Boston right now doesn't give two craps about Thornton. I contend that with the right deal Carter will eventually not be missed at all....but that is the rub..not making the right deal that is if one is made at all. We'll see.....indeed....indeed

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06-09-2011, 12:20 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
It's an opinion and I can accept it but don't have the same opinion. Some agree with you and others don't. We're all entitled to our opinions but not entitled to our own facts. I guess we won't know unless he's gone how important he really is to the team. Usually works that way. I'm sure Boston right now doesn't give two craps about Thornton. I contend that with the right deal Carter will eventually not be missed at all....but that is the rub..not making the right deal that is if one is made at all. We'll see.....indeed....indeed
I think a comparable trade would be Kessel. I bet they dont care about Kessel.

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06-09-2011, 12:24 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
It's an opinion and I can accept it but don't have the same opinion. Some agree with you and others don't. We're all entitled to our opinions but not entitled to our own facts. I guess we won't know unless he's gone how important he really is to the team. Usually works that way. I'm sure Boston right now doesn't give two craps about Thornton. I contend that with the right deal Carter will eventually not be missed at all....but that is the rub..not making the right deal that is if one is made at all. We'll see.....indeed....indeed
Yeah, I just don't think now is the correct time to consider trading Carter. Unless something happens to the prospect pool (like...say, participating in a draft!) ASAP, it's probably something we will need to consider very seriously. Also, if it comes to that, Homer should probably be fired as well, since Carter will still be the sort of player/contract that can be built around easily.

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06-09-2011, 12:25 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
I think a comparable trade would be Kessel. I bet they dont care about Kessel.
Indeed.....ironic though. Right now I'm very jealous of Boston and how they are dismantling Vancouver both mentally and in there play. Vancouver's goaltending troubles with Luongo and who will play the next game is bringing back bad memories...

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06-09-2011, 12:28 PM
  #135
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I would like that return if we got Voracek, the 8th, and a prospect or something. Losing Carter would hurt since we would lose big PKing center and a lot of goals out of the lineup.

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06-09-2011, 12:30 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Not really b/c again Ovechkin is not comparable to Carter and you cannot compare our situation and multiple needs or cap situation to that of Washington. Two different teams with different needs and options to address those needs. You are exaggerating things...
Ovechkin is a better version of Carter.very easy to compare them.

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06-09-2011, 12:34 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Indeed.....ironic though. Right now I'm very jealous of Boston and how they are dismantling Vancouver both mentally and in there play. Vancouver's goaltending troubles with Luongo and who will play the next game is bringing back bad memories...
I hate seeing Boston win, but I loathe Burrows and Luongo. And Lapierre.

I think Bobby Lou is one of the most overrated goalies in the history of ever. At this point I sorta hope he chokes, even if that means Boston wins.

Honestly, best case scenario for me is that Boston wins game 5, scores 10 goals in the first 5 minutes back in Boston in game 6, and then the roof caves in and eliminates both teams. The fallen Jumbotron will be awarded the Cup.

Win-win.

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06-09-2011, 12:37 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
I hate seeing Boston win, but I loathe Burrows and Luongo. And Lapierre.

I think Bobby Lou is one of the most overrated goalies in the history of ever. At this point I sorta hope he chokes, even if that means Boston wins.

Honestly, best case scenario for me is that Boston wins game 5, scores 10 goals in the first 5 minutes back in Boston in game 6, and then the roof caves in and eliminates both teams. The fallen Jumbotron will be awarded the Cup.

Win-win.
I've got a silver lining either way...If Boston wins, it means Recchi has another cup (which I'm fine with, especially given his ridiculous age) and it means that Luongo has comedically reinforced his image as a player who can't get it done. It also silences the Vancouver bandwagon. If Vancouver wins, Boston has lost.

Hooray!

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06-09-2011, 12:42 PM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
I hate seeing Boston win, but I loathe Burrows and Luongo. And Lapierre.

I think Bobby Lou is one of the most overrated goalies in the history of ever. At this point I sorta hope he chokes, even if that means Boston wins.

Honestly, best case scenario for me is that Boston wins game 5, scores 10 goals in the first 5 minutes back in Boston in game 6, and then the roof caves in and eliminates both teams. The fallen Jumbotron will be awarded the Cup.

Win-win.
Would they suspend the jumbotron for multiple head shots?

I don't want Boston to win b/c that is supposed to be us....but it would be us if we had a goalie! So in some ways I kind of do want Boston to win to show what a bonafide goalie can do and end this one-sided fallacy that "your goaltending is a product of the team."...I mean how many shots has Thomas saved now in the series? It was 104 of 108 and last night he made 38 saves right?


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Old
06-09-2011, 12:44 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Would they suspend the jumbotron for multiple head shots?

I don't want Boston to win b/c that is supposed to be us....but it would be us if we had a goalie! So in some ways I kind of do want Boston to win to show what a bonafide goalie can do and end this one-sided fallacy that "your goaltending is a product of the team."...I mean how many shots has Thomas saved now in the series? It was 104 of 108 and last night he made 38 saves right?
Either way, the amount of good goalies that made it far this year goes a long way toward erasing the stupid mentality leftover from last year that good goalies aren't needed and don't make it far.

Last year was a fluke.

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06-09-2011, 12:46 PM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
I hate seeing Boston win, but I loathe Burrows and Luongo. And Lapierre.

I think Bobby Lou is one of the most overrated goalies in the history of ever. At this point I sorta hope he chokes, even if that means Boston wins.

Honestly, best case scenario for me is that Boston wins game 5, scores 10 goals in the first 5 minutes back in Boston in game 6, and then the roof caves in and eliminates both teams. The fallen Jumbotron will be awarded the Cup.

Win-win.
I like the way you think.

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Old
06-09-2011, 01:20 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
My statement is this: Carter is worth more to this team ON it, than he is OFF it. Therefore, trading him is foolish.
At the risk of agreeing with you, I concur.

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06-09-2011, 09:37 PM
  #143
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http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/live/...n.html?sid=101

Relevant article, didn't see it posted anywhere.

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Multiple NHL sources have told The Dispatch that the Blue Jackets and Philadelphia Flyers have discussed a trade that would send Flyers center Jeff Carter, an All-Star in 2009, to Columbus for a top-six forward and the No. 8 overall pick in this year's draft. That top-six forward, presumably, is 21-year-old Blue Jackets winger Jake Voracek, a restricted free agent.
Admittedly, I didn't read the entire thread, but from what I gather Voracek is a right-wing, power forward who can be expected to put up ~50 points (35A, 15G). Sounds like he's a physical player, and at 6'2", 214 lbs he's not afraid to use his size. I don't recall ever having watched him play, and don't have time to track down game footage, can anyone fill in the blanks as to what this kid's potential is? I'm sure it's expected that his ceiling is high as he was the '07 #7 overall pick, but what is the consensus? The article mentioned:

Quote:
But Voracek, a restricted free agent, stagnated offensively this season, and his commitment to physical conditioning has come into question. He appeared to tire badly as the 2010-11 season finished.
This is interesting since he had his second highest point-total of his career this season.

Additionally, do you think it would be possible that the trade be Carter for 8th Pick + Umberger?

So assuming we make this trade (Carter for #8 Pick + Voracek/Umburger) AND the trade with Florida (Versteeg for Gudbranson [an aside, I think this makes sense due to the unrest in the G'branson camp, and the affinity of Tallon for Versteeg, maybe a few other minor pieces are added to each side to balance it out] or Carle + Versteeg + XXX for Gudbranson, 1st round pick) can these guys step in now to make us a more competitive team? What other moves would be necessary to fill out the roster? Any other thoughts?

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06-09-2011, 09:46 PM
  #144
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I want more than a 2011 1st + Voracek/Umberger for Carter. I am 100% against moving Carter and unless some team drastically overpays for him I don't expect him to be moved nor should he be.

Carle, Versteeg, and Hartnell should be, and probably, at the top of the chopping block.

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06-09-2011, 09:49 PM
  #145
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I want more than a 2011 1st + Voracek/Umberger for Carter. I am 100% against moving Carter and unless some team drastically overpays for him I don't expect him to be moved nor should he be.

Carle, Versteeg, and Hartnell should be, and probably, at the top of the chopping block.
Even Hartnell said on TSN Radio today that he's not stupid and knows that it could realistically be him to go.

That also leads me to think that a NTC being waived might not matter again.

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06-09-2011, 09:55 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
Either way, the amount of good goalies that made it far this year goes a long way toward erasing the stupid mentality leftover from last year that good goalies aren't needed and don't make it far.

Last year was a fluke.
And Detroit winning with Osgood?


There are many different models to build a Stanley Cup team. The Hawks and the Flyers last year was one model. The Canucks and the Bruins this year is another.

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06-09-2011, 09:58 PM
  #147
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Even Hartnell said on TSN Radio today that he's not stupid and knows that it could realistically be him to go.

That also leads me to think that a NTC being waived might not matter again.
Hartnell is a guy I wouldn't hesitate to move, not saying I'd give him away for nothing, but if I had ONE small issue with it being him...losing him only makes us smaller on the wing. Our top 9 is rather small-ish; so if we moved Hartnell I'd like to see us bring in Cole or someone with size.

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06-09-2011, 10:01 PM
  #148
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Hartnell is a guy I wouldn't hesitate to move, not saying I'd give him away for nothing, but if I had ONE small issue with it being him...losing him only makes us smaller on the wing. Our top 9 is rather small-ish; so if we moved Hartnell I'd to see us bring in Cole.
Agreed, if we move Hartnell, he has to replaced with a guy who has some grit. Plus, I think we really have to get back to having somebody screen the net while blasting away shots from the point, so you'd have to find someone to replace him there too.

Really every trade has some cons, it's just a matter of limiting those cons.

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06-10-2011, 03:44 AM
  #149
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Agreed, if we move Hartnell, he has to replaced with a guy who has some grit. Plus, I think we really have to get back to having somebody screen the net while blasting away shots from the point, so you'd have to find someone to replace him there too.

Really every trade has some cons, it's just a matter of limiting those cons.
Hartnell for as dumb as he is, really seems to be very well liked in the dressing room. It would be a bad idea to remove a player like that. He's been here since the rebuild, he's been to the finals and was a key player in getting us there.

Hartnell on his game is one of the best players in the NHL for his money. Trading Carter however does make sense. I want a hell of a lot more than the 1st + voracek for him though. Another first, or another solid prospect at least.

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06-10-2011, 08:44 AM
  #150
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Beef , Can I post what I told you in private message, or no !! I know if I post what I told you, people will just say it is BS, but quite relevant to this thread imo !

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