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Next season's roster (all trade, ufa signing, and re-signing discussion)

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Old
06-09-2011, 03:10 AM
  #976
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Originally Posted by CupfortheSharks View Post
This year, in the playoffs, Demers put up a whopping 3 points. Tied with Vlasic and just beaten out by that offensive juggernaut Wallin with 4. Don't get me wrong, Demers has made great strides this year....but let's not pronounce him the second coming of Toews just yet.
Not saying he is the 2nd coming of Toews. The organization expects big things from the kid. Probably 2nd to Couture in terms of high expectations.

You guys need to stop looking at the numbers and look at the play.

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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post


He moves the puck almost as well as Boyle(moves the puck). Americans and your English!
Sorry, Swiss aren't allowed to correct grammar.

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He has a good shot, but it is nothing special. It's not very hard, nor can he get it off pretty fast. Good accuracy, but overall, a middling shot.
Its a better shot then most of our forward core in almost every aspect. Dunno what you're complaining about.

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These are your qualifications for excellent offensive instincts? The guy did not even crack 30 points this year...
Again, I gotta tell you guys to stop looking at the numbers and look at the play. 24 points for the minutes he played is really good.

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I look at Demers and see a guy who is pretty decent, but nothing to go googoo over. A top-4 defenseman in the future; a bottom-pairing guy on a SC-contender at this point. He needs to improve a lot defensively.
He has improved a lot defensively this year. This year's Demers and last years Demers is like comparing night and day in terms of defensive play. Rob Blake rubbed off on the kid quite a bit. We're going to have to wait and see if Demers can step up to the new challenge on full time 2nd pairing.

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Is your post missing a sarcasm smiley?
English is not your first langauge obviously. I didn't say he was Forsberg. I said he has Peter Forsberg like poise and vision from the blueline. You see what I did there? Forsberg was extremely strong on the puck, a monster down low in the offensive zone, and created time and space out of thin air. Its outside the ability of what Demers has shown us.

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This happens every time with SJ fans. They are always anointing Michalek, Bernier, Carle, Vlasic, Kaspar, Petrecki, Wishart, Ehrhoff, Coyle as great players before the players have come close to that level.
I never anointed anyone. If there has been any prospects that have become what they should be or exceeded expectations. For me, it has been Couture, Demers, and Pavelski.

Coyle hasn't even been signed, but he was a star at BU in his freshman year. Needs work, yes. But so far so good. If the kid improves his skating, he will be good in the NHL without a doubt. We'll just have to see where his development goes.

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06-09-2011, 03:14 AM
  #977
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Are you saying that the Sharks d-core is ripe with 2-way defensemen? White is pretty much the only one...
I consider Demers to be a TWD...

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06-09-2011, 06:25 AM
  #978
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Are you saying that the Sharks d-core is ripe with 2-way defensemen? White is pretty much the only one...
Boyle and White are both two-ways and Demers is showing he is well on his way to that point as well. The issue is that they need one on the left side and not all of them on the right side. And again, right now, Jason Demers is in the top four. He was top four in minutes among d-men in the playoffs and for the bulk of the latter half of the season. He took a lot of steps this year progressing towards a good all-around defenseman and was rewarded by being on the 2nd pairing with Vlasic, which was a role they could have easily given to the recently acquired Ian White. And what came with that role for Demers was an increase in competition and he performed well. Not great. Not average. But well.

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06-09-2011, 09:26 AM
  #979
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Ok didn't mean to set off a major debate here let me clarify my statements.

Demers is not as good as Boyle offensively, Boyle is one of the best in the league, but Demers shows all the skills required to get pretty close in very short order. Demers also is probably already as good as Boyle defensively, and will likely improve. So what I meant is, by next season, he may surpass Boyle defensively and inch closer offensively making him our best TWD (I consider Boyle an offensive defensemen who can be trusted in his own zone, but is not stellar defensively).

I am perfectly comfortable with Demers in the top-4 as long as he has the right partner. Vlasic is fine, I suspect Murray would be better. He is already used to playing with Boyle and he really should be playing less minutes. If the Shark's can get a guy like Brewer to play with Boyle and move Murray down to pair with Demers than I think that would be a pretty good situation. That leaves Vlasic on the 3rd pairing with White (or Bruan, or a new player) which is not terrible, but maybe a little soft.

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06-09-2011, 09:42 AM
  #980
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So Drury is going to be bought out (Sather is a clown) but I'm wondering if Doug might be interested in replacing Nichol if Drury will come cheap (say $1m, he's still getting paid by the Rangers anyway).

I'd be all for it. We have Desjardin as a backup anyway if it doesn't work out, and he's a big game player who still could turn his game around. He's a warrior, and a great locker room guy.

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06-09-2011, 10:00 AM
  #981
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Boston; it is really all about Tim Thomas. Guy is carrying the team right now.

The Canucks d-core has fell apart the past two games. Ehrhff was their best d-man tonight; that is telling something.

Seriously, the Demers praise is going overboard. He isn't Drew Dougty...
Your are correct on Thomas. Adding in again that, along with Thomas and his stellar play, the fact that the Bruins are frustrating the heck out of the Canucks simply by hitting them and hitting them hard on all and every opportunity. Also along with crashing the Canucks net, as we should have been doing in a much larger way, and actually getting to Luongo mentally. 12 goals in two homes games; not just Thomas out there!

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Originally Posted by UniversalRemonster View Post
er, uh, I don't think the praise he gets is overboard. You should look at his play more.

He moves the puck almost as good as Boyle. ALMOST as good.
Excellent shot, and still getting better. If he doesn't find the back of the net, it hits the post or a big fat rebound pops out.
Excellent offensive instincts. If you leave the kid unchecked, he is cruising in the slot stick down and ready. If you give him time and space with the puck, he'll take it, and almost always create a scoring chance.

The kid is really good. Nobody is flattering him more then what he deserves. He confidently handles the puck, and has a Peter Forsberg like poise and offensive vision from the blueline.

You have DW quoted this year saying "We eventually expect him to QB the 1st PP unit when its his time"
Agree. Posted previously but, just to do so again, Mr. Babcok even hits on his importance to our team in this interview here a couple weeks ago (around the 7 minute mark); http://www.fan590.com/ondemand/media.jsp?content=20110525_124729_11860

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06-09-2011, 10:38 AM
  #982
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Glen Sather left Wednesday's general managers meeting without addressing the media, but the Daily News has learned the Rangers boss plans to buy out the final season of captain Chris Drury's five-year, $35.25 million contract.

"He's gone," the source said of Drury, who had one goal and four assists this season as he sat out 58 games with finger and knee injuries - more time than he had missed in his 11 previous NHL campaigns combined.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ho...y%2FRangers%29

Bring him in as the new 4th line center. he'll probably sign dirt cheap too.

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06-09-2011, 11:04 AM
  #983
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Not saying he is the 2nd coming of Toews. The organization expects big things from the kid. Probably 2nd to Couture in terms of high expectations.

You guys need to stop looking at the numbers and look at the play.
Are you looking at the play? Because we are seeing two different players.

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Its a better shot then most of our forward core in almost every aspect. Dunno what you're complaining about.
......Demers's shot is better than 4 of Thornton, Marleau, Heatley, Setoguchi, Pavelski, Couture, and Clowe?

Get out of here!

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Again, I gotta tell you guys to stop looking at the numbers and look at the play. 24 points for the minutes he played is really good.
Points do not exactly go up with minutes. Sometimes they go down, as you have to spend more minutes against higher quality players.

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He has improved a lot defensively this year. This year's Demers and last years Demers is like comparing night and day in terms of defensive play. Rob Blake rubbed off on the kid quite a bit. We're going to have to wait and see if Demers can step up to the new challenge on full time 2nd pairing.
Exactly. Which is why SJ shouldn't mind trading him for an established defenseman who can play in the top-4, if not the top-2.

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English is not your first langauge obviously. I didn't say he was Forsberg. I said he has Peter Forsberg like poise and vision from the blueline.
You don't think that is hyping a player? You don't think that is a gross overexaggeration of Demers's abilities?

The implication that Demers's vision and puck-poise can stand up to Forsberg's is ridiculous.

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I never anointed anyone. If there has been any prospects that have become what they should be or exceeded expectations. For me, it has been Couture, Demers, and Pavelski.
To be fair, Couture is matching expectations.

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Coyle hasn't even been signed, but he was a star at BU in his freshman year. Needs work, yes. But so far so good. If the kid improves his skating, he will be good in the NHL without a doubt. We'll just have to see where his development goes
Again...

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Old
06-09-2011, 11:05 AM
  #984
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Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ho...y%2FRangers%29

Bring him in as the new 4th line center. he'll probably sign dirt cheap too.
If Drury doesn't really care about winning, and is OK with signing dirt cheap, there is a high probablity he goes to Colorado. Didn't he love it there?

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06-09-2011, 11:28 AM
  #985
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
......Demers's shot is better than 4 of Thornton, Marleau, Heatley, Setoguchi, Pavelski, Couture, and Clowe?

Get out of here!
It makes zero sense to compare Demers shot to forwards' shots. He should be compared to dmens' shots and in that light, he's right below Boyle and tied with White. Better than (in order) Braun and Murray. Vlasic has by far the worst shot of all our d, I think.

You seem to have it out for Demers. He isn't Lidstrom but for $1.2m cap hit, he provides A LOT more value than Pickles at $3.1m, I think.

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06-09-2011, 11:40 AM
  #986
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
So Drury is going to be bought out (Sather is a clown) but I'm wondering if Doug might be interested in replacing Nichol if Drury will come cheap (say $1m, he's still getting paid by the Rangers anyway).

I'd be all for it. We have Desjardin as a backup anyway if it doesn't work out, and he's a big game player who still could turn his game around. He's a warrior, and a great locker room guy.
I've be all for it too, hell considering how much he'll get paid by the Rangers on a buy out, maybe Drury would even take less than $1M, like somewhere between league min and $750k. He wouldn't do that anywhere, but a Cup contender? On a one year deal to prove himself worthy again? Maybe even give him two years, year 1: $750k, year 2: $1m, cap hit 0.875. His career is winding down, but he brings many intangibles to the plate and would look great on our fourth line.

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06-09-2011, 11:43 AM
  #987
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
If Drury doesn't really care about winning, and is OK with signing dirt cheap, there is a high probablity he goes to Colorado. Didn't he love it there?
Say whaaat? Drury not care about winning? Drury's cared about winning since he put his LLWS team on his back, dude's a winner and has been rotting in New York. He needs to become a Shark. Make it happen DW.

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06-09-2011, 11:58 AM
  #988
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agreed. all Drury does is win. we need his intangibles.

with all the money he's making, i could see him signing for $700-800K.

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06-09-2011, 12:08 PM
  #989
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I think there is little to no chance that Drury goes anywhere for super cheap.

I would not be opposed to replacing Seto with Drury if Seto wants too much.

With the money from the buyout I could see him signing with a contender for around 3 million mark. He would fit basically all the needs for the Sharks.

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06-09-2011, 12:22 PM
  #990
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I think there is little to no chance that Drury goes anywhere for super cheap.

I would not be opposed to replacing Seto with Drury if Seto wants too much.

With the money from the buyout I could see him signing with a contender for around 3 million mark. He would fit basically all the needs for the Sharks.
Drury replacing Seto??? Let's not get crazy here. Drury is on the decline big time. So much so he's being bought out. He'd be a replacement here for Nichol, not Seto. And that means he's not worth a $3M cap hit to the Sharks. At most, $1M. But with him making a little over $4M (right?) doing nothing, this is his chance to go to a contender on the cheap.

At his age, now I'm thinking it will all be about who is a contender AND will give him 2 or 3 years (If I'm Drury, I never want to be in a position where I am trying out for teams, I want a regular contract). I could see DW giving him 2 years with a $1M cap hit.

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06-09-2011, 12:23 PM
  #991
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i can guarantee that nobody is giving Drury $3 million. he's a 4th liner.

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06-09-2011, 12:32 PM
  #992
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Sry10,
Trading Demers to get someone who can play top 4 is a sideways move. Take the salary cap into consideration and it is a downgrade because you are getting less bang for the buck. Demers has been playing top 4 for the second half of the season with very reasonable results.

I define a TWD as a guy whose offensive numbers are that of a PMD. A rough look is 20 pts/season without PP time. More PP time, more points. The PMD part should also include a good Corsi ranking. A TWD also has defensive skills that puts him in the top 4. White was the most marginal of the Sharks TWDs (Boyle, Demers, White) on those defensive scores. White is barely a TWD because of the defensive side. I looked at his defensive numbers with previous teams as well to arrive at my conclusion.

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06-09-2011, 12:50 PM
  #993
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Originally Posted by Gilligans Island View Post
It makes zero sense to compare Demers shot to forwards' shots. He should be compared to dmens' shots and in that light, he's right below Boyle and tied with White. Better than (in order) Braun and Murray. Vlasic has by far the worst shot of all our d, I think.

You seem to have it out for Demers. He isn't Lidstrom but for $1.2m cap hit, he provides A LOT more value than Pickles at $3.1m, I think.
I was just responding to universial remoters whilst comparing the shots.

I would say that White's shot is the best on the team. People don't really snipe from the point anywhere. Hardness, quickness, and "accuracy" (including smarts like bouncing it off the boards or looking for a tip) are important. So is creating shooting lanes.

IMO, White, Braun, and Boyle have the best shots on the team from the back-end.

White's is the hardest, reasonably quick, and reasonably accurate. He is decent at creating lanes.

Boyle's is quickest, the most accurate, and while soft, he has the ability to create lanes like no other on the team.

Braun's was the hardest before White, and while I haven't seen him in a while, in his short stay here, it was the quickest. It seems like it is very accurate.

Demers's shot is behind these three. It's not really a hard shot. He's reasonably quick, but at best he is as quick as White. His accuracy is behind both White and Boyle at least. He's up-and-down at creating lanes.

White has the hardest and 2nd quickest shot on the team next to Boyle. He's also 2nd in accuracy.

I think that Demers, because of his age and contract, would be very valuable on the trade market if looking to get a guy from a rebuilding team like Minnesota. Vlasic would have more value to a contender, but those teams aren't looking to trade with San Jose. Demers is also more replaceable in the system. Vlasic, for better or worse, is the team's number #1 defensive defenseman. If the Sharks used Demers to acquire someone like Burns, they have Burns and Vlasic who can handle top-assignments on defense, and Burns, Boyle, and White who can handle top-assignments on offense. If they acquire someone like Burns using a player like Vlasic, they have only Burns who can handle top-assignments on defense.

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06-09-2011, 01:00 PM
  #994
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Sry10,
Trading Demers to get someone who can play top 4 is a sideways move. Take the salary cap into consideration and it is a downgrade because you are getting less bang for the buck. Demers has been playing top 4 for the second half of the season with very reasonable results.
I don't think Demers is a top-4 defenseman. Perhaps I have a higher standard than most. Getting a guy like Burns, who is a solid #2 for Demers would definitely help the team.

Quote:
I define a TWD as a guy whose offensive numbers are that of a PMD. A rough look is 20 pts/season without PP time. More PP time, more points.
From eyeball, Demers got about 2 minutes/game of PP team, some with Boyle and some on the 2nd unit/game. He got ~25 points, so it looks like he is barely filling your very lenient criteria.

To me, a TWD is a guy who can contribute sufficiently at both ends of the ice. A PMD is a play-making defenseman. A d-man who's getting his points from great first-passes, stretch passes, making smart plays in the offensive zone, etc. A guy who can anchor the defense from the backend; a guy who can control the play to some degree from his blueline out.

Quote:
The PMD part should also include a good Corsi ranking. A TWD also has defensive skills that puts him in the top 4.
I would agree.

Quote:
White was the most marginal of the Sharks TWDs (Boyle, Demers, White) on those defensive scores.

White is barely a TWD because of the defensive side. I looked at his defensive numbers with previous teams as well to arrive at my conclusion
White was much better defensively in Toronto than he was in Carolina, SJ, or Calgary. Perhaps he needs time with the team to adjust...especially on the defensive side, where it is more about systems play than natural talent (especially on the PK). For most of his career, he's been a good 2nd-unit PKer; a good mark of a guy with defensive skills.

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06-09-2011, 01:01 PM
  #995
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Originally Posted by ChompChomp View Post
Say whaaat? Drury not care about winning? Drury's cared about winning since he put his LLWS team on his back, dude's a winner and has been rotting in New York. He needs to become a Shark. Make it happen DW.
If, if, if. He's already won a cup...

DW did make him an offer all those years ago (was a lowball, IIRC). The Philly inquirer and a lot of sources out of New York have pegged him going to San Jose over the years, though whether than was speculation (he'd fit so well there!) or facts (Drury would like San Jose!), remains to be seen.

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06-09-2011, 01:07 PM
  #996
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post

I think that Demers, because of his age and contract, would be very valuable on the trade market if looking to get a guy from a rebuilding team like Minnesota. Vlasic would have more value to a contender, but those teams aren't looking to trade with San Jose. Demers is also more replaceable in the system. Vlasic, for better or worse, is the team's number #1 defensive defenseman. If the Sharks used Demers to acquire someone like Burns, they have Burns and Vlasic who can handle top-assignments on defense, and Burns, Boyle, and White who can handle top-assignments on offense. If they acquire someone like Burns using a player like Vlasic, they have only Burns who can handle top-assignments on defense.
I agree about Demers value. However, you need to check Burns. Not close on the defensive side. That was Schultz for Minnesota. I really like Burns on the offensive side, but defense is not his forte. His lack of PK time was telling.

The other part is that we have seen Vlasic being especially vulnerable to partnerships. Anaheim took he and Blake apart. He was failing miserably with Wallin. If they get the wrong guy while hoping, it might not be so good a move.

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06-09-2011, 01:21 PM
  #997
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Split the thread already! I want to post something but don't want to waste my time posting it in a dead thread

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06-09-2011, 01:41 PM
  #998
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Split the thread already! I want to post something but don't want to waste my time posting it in a dead thread
I'll close it.

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