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Tambellini listening to offers for 1st overall

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Old
06-09-2011, 12:53 PM
  #51
Andros777
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
He ain't going nowhere, a 6'1 hard-working right handed super talented hometown center is kind of what we've been looking for the last 10, 15 years. Couturier and Leblanc were really good together in the WJC camp, those 2 would be legends with the Habs one day.
We need to overpay for a higher talent. It would be easier to go out and sign the equivalent of Leblanc (Laich for instance) if we made this deal than it would be to go out and sign the equivalent of Huberdeau if we didn't.


I'd like to see Gauthier be like Burke, decide which players are good and then get them at any cost.

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06-09-2011, 01:07 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
No, but he is a player that is worth more to a team than the stats show. He's a guy that plays bigger than his size and that can score both skill goals and also the dirty ones by driving the net.
Somewhat agree, and he seems smart enough that he'll be able to find a role in the NHL, I imagine as a checking center or maybe a complimentary forward on a scoring line. Hopefully a Dominic Moore or a Chris Higgins. But "super talented" is an adjective I'd use for Hall, Tavares, Skinner, Eberle, maybe Huberdeau and Schenn level forwards, guys who look like they can drive a scoring line in the NHL if they progress well. "Legends" is even more rarefied air, a Saku Koivu or Patrick Roy career.

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06-09-2011, 01:10 PM
  #53
Pleky Roks
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We don't need to draft a player that will be good in 5 years, we need to go after free agents that will help turn the Habs into Cup contenders. We have enough talent down in Hamilton that will be good in a few years, we don't need more.....we need help NOW!!

If it wasn't for having to give up so much for that 1st overall pick, it would be a different story, but to give up some of our good players to get a good player in 4-5 years would be taking a step backwards!!

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06-09-2011, 01:13 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Pleky Roks View Post
If it wasn't for having to give up so much for that 1st overall pick, it would be a different story, but to give up some of our good players to get a good player in 4-5 years would be taking a step backwards!!
You do realize that most of the forwards drafted Top 3 overall in the past few drafts have made an big impact within 1-2 years of being drafted right?

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06-09-2011, 01:14 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
Probably the likes of a Subban, Pacioretty and the 17th overall pick type deal.

Not a chance though.
What the ****. ? Where did you come up with this gem ? A franchise defenseman ++ for a potential top 6 forward ! Im confused.

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06-09-2011, 01:19 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
It would have to be something like:

1st, Leblanc, Kristo, Desharnais+
Never...EVER...Gonna happen


Thank God!


That kind of price would be for an ESTABLISHED NHL Star.... we are developing our depth... leave it alone!

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06-09-2011, 01:30 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by WTFpineapple View Post
You do realize that most of the forwards drafted Top 3 overall in the past few drafts have made an big impact within 1-2 years of being drafted right?
Top 3 forwards from the past 5 drafts and their point totals in the first two years after their drafts:

2010:
- Taylor Hall (1): 42, n/a
- Tyler Seguin (2): 22, n/a
- Ryan Johanson (4): n/a, n/a

2009:
- John Tavares (1): 54, 67
- Matt Duchene (3): 55, 67
- Evander Kane (4): 26, 43

2008:
- Steven Stamkos (1): 46, 95
- Nikita Filatov (6): 4, 2
- Colin Wilson (7): n/a, 15

2007:
- Patrick Kane (1): 72, 70
- James van Riemsdyk (2): n/a, n/a
- Kyle Turris (3): 1, 20

2006:
- Jordan Staal (2): 42, 28
- Jonathan Toews (3): n/a, 54
- Nicklas Backstrom (4): n/a, 69

I don't know if you can really say that 'most' of these players had an impact in the first two years after the draft, but there are some definite gems on this list. Problem would be to give up so many assets to get a so-so player, which can happen...

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06-09-2011, 01:34 PM
  #58
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For some reason my work's firewall is blocking pages 2 and 3 of this thead (WTF) so if anything I write's been said, please be gentle

Honestly if I'm PG come draft day, I try to move up to grab Couturier or Z-Jad, so no need to overpay for 1st.

I am not sure what it would take though to move up to 6 or 7 in order to grab either of those.

I also wonder how far Huberdeau will get picked after seeing his post season.

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06-09-2011, 01:34 PM
  #59
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1st overall isn't worth it. From the list above, we can get 3rd overall and draft a turris but trade an NHL ready pacioretty, deharnais and another 1st to do it. What's the point? If you move up, you move up slightly, no crazy selling the farm for one guy stuff.

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06-09-2011, 01:43 PM
  #60
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I love how some things never change here. All our players are future superstars, franchise players.. we couldn't possibly give them up for a 1st overall.. Edmonton had better sweeten the deal to get this done!


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06-09-2011, 01:50 PM
  #61
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Didn't Tambellini say the same things last season...

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Old
06-09-2011, 02:06 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by nyhabsfan View Post
Never...EVER...Gonna happen


Thank God!


That kind of price would be for an ESTABLISHED NHL Star.... we are developing our depth... leave it alone!
Calm down, I never said I would do that deal, I said it's what it would take as a starting point. 1st overall picks are what they are expensive.

I don't create the market either, 1st overall picks cost what established stars cost because you're getting an opportunity to pick up a potential Crosby. Most established stars aren't in his league. These are guys who may never pan out but also haven't fully developed either. They could one day be superstars of Crosby/Ovechkin caliber.

I'm not saying it isn't a gamble but the cost is what it is. They won't just hand you a 1st overall pick, overpriced is the name of the game.

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06-09-2011, 02:35 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Andros777 View Post
We need to overpay for a higher talent. It would be easier to go out and sign the equivalent of Leblanc (Laich for instance) if we made this deal than it would be to go out and sign the equivalent of Huberdeau if we didn't.


I'd like to see Gauthier be like Burke, decide which players are good and then get them at any cost.
Didn't seem to work out that well in the kessel deal.

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Old
06-09-2011, 02:44 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by WTFpineapple View Post
You do realize that most of the forwards drafted Top 3 overall in the past few drafts have made an big impact within 1-2 years of being drafted right?
That's not true. The ones that did were Crosby Malkin and Ovechkin, due to the lock out Malkin only played 28 months after being drafted, Ovechkin only started at 20 also with the lock out and having a late birthday.

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Old
06-09-2011, 02:56 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Andros777 View Post
I'd like to see Gauthier be like Burke, decide which players are good and then get them at any cost.
Don't look now, but the Leafs aren't very good, and may be worse than they were when Burke got started.

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06-09-2011, 03:06 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Andros777 View Post
We need to overpay for a higher talent. It would be easier to go out and sign the equivalent of Leblanc (Laich for instance) if we made this deal than it would be to go out and sign the equivalent of Huberdeau if we didn't.


I'd like to see Gauthier be like Burke, decide which players are good and then get them at any cost.
I agree. I've watched other teams much more this year and the conclusion that came to me is that we totally underrate the impact a top-end player would bring to our team. Most of the teams that are dominant for years and that have a great shot at winning the cup every year has those players. And they make the players arround them better. And their prospects develop even a notch further than expected when they reach the NHL level because of the impact of those "impact players" is even deeper than the goals they score.

Truth is, we need to get more of theses players. It doesn't matter if you end up paying a lot to get them. They're more often than not what makes a team special.

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06-09-2011, 03:10 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Don't look now, but the Leafs aren't very good, and may be worse than they were when Burke got started.
I don't think the point here is what he's done with the leafs, but rather the fact that he does try to get impact players. He might be a bad GM, but it's certainly not because of this philosophy. I wouldn't build a defense arround Phaneuf, Schenn and Komisarek. Those aren't wise choices, it's not the philosophy beind getting impact players that's the problem here.

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06-09-2011, 03:36 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by franchise player View Post
I don't think the point here is what he's done with the leafs, but rather the fact that he does try to get impact players.
Gauthier is starting with way more ammo than Burke, namely a much better club armed with better prospects (MaxPac, Subban). He doesn't need to do big hypey moves, he can make it work with incremental upgrades and solid masonry work and grow it organically.

He doesn't need to get first-line wingers. He has them. He doesn't need to find one of those ultra-rare elite #1 D-men. He has one. He doesn't need to hunt a strong starting goalie he can use for seventy games. He has one.

Burke goes out and tries to get impact players because he doesn't have any. That's a pretty significant difference and it drives the philosophy.

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Old
06-09-2011, 03:41 PM
  #69
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Pleky Roks View Post
We don't need to draft a player that will be good in 5 years, we need to go after free agents that will help turn the Habs into Cup contenders. We have enough talent down in Hamilton that will be good in a few years, we don't need more.....we need help NOW!!
Why? So we have guys to support our current superstars like Scott Gomez? What makes you think we're a contender now?

We've used the blueprint you've given above forever now and it's gotten us nowhere. It's led to mediocrity for us. Fortunately, we won a lottery and managed to get a top five pick who just turned out to be our best player. I'm not sure what's so wrong with building towards the future. Price and Subban are young and we should be getting younger players to develop along with them. Trading vets for picks/prospects isn't a bad idea right now. That's how we got Gorges and Maxpac.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleky Roks View Post
If it wasn't for having to give up so much for that 1st overall pick, it would be a different story, but to give up some of our good players to get a good player in 4-5 years would be taking a step backwards!!
Maybe the 1st overall would be too expensive. Maybe this isn't the year to do it if the prospects aren't elite enough. But elite prospects become impact players quicker than in 5 years. If you find a guy who you think is elite, then we should do it. I'm tired of continually drafting 17th and then listening to people whine about how we can't land stars with our first round picks.

Year after year here there are threads on 'how do we get a superstar'... We've had one top five pick in almost 30 years. That's why we don't get them. Price looks like he'll be one and we look like we may have gotten lucky with Subban (2nd round) so that's two great kids to build around. Why not add to it instead of trying to win it now when the club we have isn't good enough? I'd much rather invest in an elete young center (which we've needed forever) than go down the path of trying to supplement our core of Gomez, Gionta and Cammy who aren't good enough to win. Our youngsters are better than our vets, all the more reason to start building towards the future because Price and Subban actually are good enough to build around.

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06-09-2011, 03:53 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Gauthier is starting with way more ammo than Burke, namely a much better club armed with better prospects (MaxPac, Subban). He doesn't need to do big hypey moves, he can make it work with incremental upgrades and solid masonry work and grow it organically.

He doesn't need to get first-line wingers. He has them. He doesn't need to find one of those ultra-rare elite #1 D-men. He has one. He doesn't need to hunt a strong starting goalie he can use for seventy games. He has one.

Burke goes out and tries to get impact players because he doesn't have any. That's a pretty significant difference and it drives the philosophy.
I think you have a very good point here.

What I'm saying is that the impact of top-end talent tend to be a little bit underrated here. Those players are unvaluable, yet people (only on hfboards) wouldn't trade two first round picks (that will be in the 20th overall range anyways) and Eller for a player on this caliber.

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06-09-2011, 05:47 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Why? So we have guys to support our current superstars like Scott Gomez? What makes you think we're a contender now?

We've used the blueprint you've given above forever now and it's gotten us nowhere. It's led to mediocrity for us. Fortunately, we won a lottery and managed to get a top five pick who just turned out to be our best player. I'm not sure what's so wrong with building towards the future. Price and Subban are young and we should be getting younger players to develop along with them. Trading vets for picks/prospects isn't a bad idea right now. That's how we got Gorges and Maxpac.

Maybe the 1st overall would be too expensive. Maybe this isn't the year to do it if the prospects aren't elite enough. But elite prospects become impact players quicker than in 5 years. If you find a guy who you think is elite, then we should do it. I'm tired of continually drafting 17th and then listening to people whine about how we can't land stars with our first round picks.

Year after year here there are threads on 'how do we get a superstar'... We've had one top five pick in almost 30 years. That's why we don't get them. Price looks like he'll be one and we look like we may have gotten lucky with Subban (2nd round) so that's two great kids to build around. Why not add to it instead of trying to win it now when the club we have isn't good enough? I'd much rather invest in an elete young center (which we've needed forever) than go down the path of trying to supplement our core of Gomez, Gionta and Cammy who aren't good enough to win. Our youngsters are better than our vets, all the more reason to start building towards the future because Price and Subban actually are good enough to build around.
You say Cammy isn't good enough to win and yet who performs in the playoffs each year? I'm sorry but a poor choice of player for this argument imo.

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06-09-2011, 05:49 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by franchise player View Post
I think you have a very good point here.

What I'm saying is that the impact of top-end talent tend to be a little bit underrated here. Those players are unvaluable, yet people (only on hfboards) wouldn't trade two first round picks (that will be in the 20th overall range anyways) and Eller for a player on this caliber.
Because no player like this will be available for Eller + 2 1sts.

They wouldn't be 20th overall range if that happened, any GM sending us the mythical elite forward you're talking about would get ****ed because we'd be an elite team after and they'd pick 27-30th.

So no GM would be that stupid. It's actually only on HFboards where you actually get some people who think Eller + 2 1sts is going to get you a superstar center like Malkin, Staal, etc. Never going to happen not in a million years not unless the player is overpaid and on the decline hence Gomez.

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06-09-2011, 05:53 PM
  #73
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You say Cammy isn't good enough to win and yet who performs in the playoffs each year? I'm sorry but a poor choice of player for this argument imo.
I didn't say Cammy wasn't good enough to win. I said the team we have now isn't going to win anything. I like Cammy and he's certainly good enough to play on a cup winning team, but I don't see us winning a cup next year so I don't see why the poster was saying that we have to "get these guys NOW!"

We'd be better off building for the future with guys like Price and Subban. And if it meant trading a guy like Cammy to get a younger elite prospect then that's what we should do. We should've done this years ago. We should've done it instead of going after Gionta and company...

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Old
06-09-2011, 06:29 PM
  #74
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With the first overall I'd choose Landeskog.

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Old
06-09-2011, 06:49 PM
  #75
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You say Cammy isn't good enough to win and yet who performs in the playoffs each year? I'm sorry but a poor choice of player for this argument imo.
Cammi is the best weapon on an offense starved team.And he's a proven playoff star.You can't trade him.

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