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OTT acquiring Top 5 pick while keeping #6

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Old
06-08-2011, 01:14 PM
  #51
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In fairness, Rundblad/Cowen/Karlsson/Spezza are all worth far more than a top 5 pick; particularly in a year when no consensus has emerged.

While I'm inclined to agree that acquiring a second top 6 pick (without dealing our #6) is unlikely, I don't think excluding those players was unreasonable.

I also think if Ottawa wanted to move up to 15thish from 21st, and then deal 15 + Weircioch + 2nd, we could probably get NJ or NYI's attention. I'm just not sure it'd be worth it. Weircioch - with his 6'4 frame and skating ability - still has tremendous upside, and you'd be giving up at least 4 picks (21st, 2 seconds, and a later pick) in those two moves. I'm not convinced - in this draft - that makes any sense.

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Old
06-08-2011, 02:28 PM
  #52
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Rundblad + 35th + low-end prospect should get it done

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Old
06-08-2011, 03:00 PM
  #53
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wiercoch+21+59+3rd round

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06-08-2011, 03:11 PM
  #54
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Forget top five. Let's try and move into the 8 to 12 range. There are some great prospects available there, some of which come by draft highlights.

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Old
06-08-2011, 03:21 PM
  #55
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the draft is rich of talent but not when your looking at franchise future stars. take what they have if something comes up great but no reasons to get rid of prospects or current roster spots. Unless you want to move a kuba of a gonchar cap eating older players that wont work into the years to come. At the same time gonchar is a good mentor for the youth coming up.

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Old
06-08-2011, 03:28 PM
  #56
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gonchar+21+59+3rd round pick

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06-08-2011, 03:54 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenextalfie View Post
gonchar+21+59+3rd round pick
Yikes

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Old
06-08-2011, 04:29 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
I wouldn't Lehner is one of the best goalie prospects in the league and just won playoff MVP and Calder Cup at 19.
Lehner is actually a prime candidate to move. We have no immediate need at that position while we have a more pressing need on our top 2 lines. Packaging Lehner with our 21st and one or two 2nd rounders could entice one of the teams in the top 5 picks if a goalie is on their radar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by circusfreak View Post
the draft is rich of talent but not when your looking at franchise future stars. take what they have if something comes up great but no reasons to get rid of prospects or current roster spots. Unless you want to move a kuba of a gonchar cap eating older players that wont work into the years to come. At the same time gonchar is a good mentor for the youth coming up.
Kuba and Gonchar are not key players... I'd have no hesitation in bundling them in a package.

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Old
06-08-2011, 04:32 PM
  #59
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There just isn't any realistic way to make the OP work. We are more or less saying only the bolded parts below are available for this deal.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Milan Michalek ($4.333m) / Jason Spezza ($7.000m) / Bobby Butler ($0.900m)
Nick Foligno ($1.200m) / Peter Regin ($1.000m) / Daniel Alfredsson ($4.875m)
Colin Greening ($0.816m) / Zack Smith ($0.700m) / Chris Neil ($2.000m)
Roman Wick ($0.740m) / Jesse Winchester ($0.750m) / Erik Condra ($0.800m)
Mike Hoffman ($0.676m) / Stephane Da Costa ($1.325m) / Andre Petersson ($0.730m)
/ Jim O'Brien ($0.816m)

DEFENSEMEN
Jared Cowen ($1.295m) / Erik Karlsson ($1.300m)
Chris Phillips ($3.083m) / David Rundblad ($1.500m)
Sergei Gonchar ($5.500m) / Matt Carkner ($0.700m)
Brian Lee ($0.875m) / Patrick Wiercioch ($0.875m)
Eric Gryba ($0.622m) / Filip Kuba ($3.700m)

GOALTENDERS
Craig Anderson ($3.187m) / Robin Lehner ($0.900m)

To be more realistic (and against the thread title), add the 6th pick to the bolded assets and see how far up we could move. Probably not far.

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Old
06-08-2011, 04:37 PM
  #60
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So quick question for Sens fans: if Columbus or Edmonton wanted to acquire #6 without trading their own lottery pick, what would it cost them?

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Old
06-08-2011, 04:51 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moller View Post
There just isn't any realistic way to make the OP work. We are more or less saying only the bolded parts below are available for this deal.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Milan Michalek ($4.333m) / Jason Spezza ($7.000m) / Bobby Butler ($0.900m)
Nick Foligno ($1.200m) / Peter Regin ($1.000m) / Daniel Alfredsson ($4.875m)
Colin Greening ($0.816m) / Zack Smith ($0.700m) / Chris Neil ($2.000m)
Roman Wick ($0.740m) / Jesse Winchester ($0.750m) / Erik Condra ($0.800m)
Mike Hoffman ($0.676m) / Stephane Da Costa ($1.325m) / Andre Petersson ($0.730m)
/ Jim O'Brien ($0.816m)

DEFENSEMEN
Jared Cowen ($1.295m) / Erik Karlsson ($1.300m)
Chris Phillips ($3.083m) / David Rundblad ($1.500m)
Sergei Gonchar ($5.500m) / Matt Carkner ($0.700m)
Brian Lee ($0.875m) / Patrick Wiercioch ($0.875m)
Eric Gryba ($0.622m) / Filip Kuba ($3.700m)

GOALTENDERS
Craig Anderson ($3.187m) / Robin Lehner ($0.900m)

To be more realistic (and against the thread title), add the 6th pick to the bolded assets and see how far up we could move. Probably not far.
I went further than you in listing what I think is available. I didn't include Cowen and Rundblad but under the right terms, one of the two could be included in a deal.

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Old
06-08-2011, 04:55 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
So quick question for Sens fans: if Columbus or Edmonton wanted to acquire #6 without trading their own lottery pick, what would it cost them?
I'll be honest and tell you upfront that I don't know what assets any of those two teams have that we could use but make an offer and if I think it can help us immediately or in this year's draft (or next year), then it will be seriously considered.

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Old
06-08-2011, 05:08 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
So quick question for Sens fans: if Columbus or Edmonton wanted to acquire #6 without trading their own lottery pick, what would it cost them?
It's based on team needs and situation. NJ for example would be easier to acquire than NYI, but NJ drafts 4th and NYI 5th.

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Old
06-08-2011, 05:14 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moller View Post
There just isn't any realistic way to make the OP work. We are more or less saying only the bolded parts below are available for this deal.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Milan Michalek ($4.333m) / Jason Spezza ($7.000m) / Bobby Butler ($0.900m)
Nick Foligno ($1.200m) / Peter Regin ($1.000m) / Daniel Alfredsson ($4.875m)
Colin Greening ($0.816m) / Zack Smith ($0.700m) / Chris Neil ($2.000m)
Roman Wick ($0.740m) / Jesse Winchester ($0.750m) / Erik Condra ($0.800m)
Mike Hoffman ($0.676m) / Stephane Da Costa ($1.325m) / Andre Petersson ($0.730m)
/ Jim O'Brien ($0.816m)

DEFENSEMEN
Jared Cowen ($1.295m) / Erik Karlsson ($1.300m)
Chris Phillips ($3.083m) / David Rundblad ($1.500m)
Sergei Gonchar ($5.500m) / Matt Carkner ($0.700m)
Brian Lee ($0.875m) / Patrick Wiercioch ($0.875m)
Eric Gryba ($0.622m) / Filip Kuba ($3.700m)

GOALTENDERS
Craig Anderson ($3.187m) / Robin Lehner ($0.900m)

To be more realistic (and against the thread title), add the 6th pick to the bolded assets and see how far up we could move. Probably not far.
Good post. This trade isn't feasible, and frankly, I don't even want to trade for a top 5 pick anyway (unless we got a fantastic deal).

/thread imo

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Old
06-08-2011, 06:29 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Petrov View Post
To NYI:
Weircioch

to OTT:
NYI 1st in 2011
Dipietro
No thanks.

It'll be a shame if DiPietro is forced to retire because of the injuries/surgeries,but that is what insurance is for.

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Old
06-08-2011, 08:12 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukus View Post
Lehner is actually a prime candidate to move. We have no immediate need at that position while we have a more pressing need on our top 2 lines. Packaging Lehner with our 21st and one or two 2nd rounders could entice one of the teams in the top 5 picks if a goalie is on their radar.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Here we have a prospect that has just accomplished a magnificent feat at the age of 19 and is looking like something this franchise has never had(A star goalie prospect) and you want to get rid of him for a top 5 pick that hasn't even proven in pro level hockey?(Something Lehner has already done)

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Old
06-08-2011, 08:22 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukus View Post
Lehner is actually a prime candidate to move. We have no immediate need at that position while we have a more pressing need on our top 2 lines. Packaging Lehner with our 21st and one or two 2nd rounders could entice one of the teams in the top 5 picks if a goalie is on their radar.

Kuba and Gonchar are not key players... I'd have no hesitation in bundling them in a package.
Trading Lehner would be foolish.

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Old
06-08-2011, 09:10 PM
  #68
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maybe someone wants to gamble on your 2012 1st plus something big this year.

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Old
06-08-2011, 09:31 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukus View Post
What would it take for OTT to acquire one of the top 5 picks in this year's draft? The goal is to do so without losing key players on the current roster and keeping our #6 draft pick. Blue chip prospects Cowen and Rundblad are also off limit.

So what's left you say? Well most of our current roster, most of the Binghamton Senators and the following draft picks:

- Pick #21 (1st round)
- Pick #35 (2nd round)
- Pick #48 (2nd round)
- Pick #59 (2nd round)
- Pick #65 (3rd round)

I think there's a pool of promising prospects and an abundance of picks to perhaps entice a team to trade away their top 5 pick to us... is there enough worthy assets here to get a deal done?
I always wondered what happened to Corky when "Life Goes On" got cancelled.

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Old
06-09-2011, 10:11 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
You have no idea what you're talking about. Here we have a prospect that has just accomplished a magnificent feat at the age of 19 and is looking like something this franchise has never had(A star goalie prospect) and you want to get rid of him for a top 5 pick that hasn't even proven in pro level hockey?(Something Lehner has already done)
With all due respect, Lehner is as much as a gamble as any of the top 5 picks in this year's draft. He hasn't proven anything in the big league... not sure where you're getting that idea. He's a top prospect just like any of the top 5.

I'm just not prepared to wait 3-4 years to see him have an impact on our team when we need immediate help on our top 2 lines. In a perfect world, I'd keep him but truth is, he's a coveted piece that can help us now... just not by stopping pucks.

You're gonna hate me for saying this but wait till next year, if Cowen and Rundblad pan out and Karlsson repeats the year he had, I'll be the first to offer Karlsson in a trade. Here's hoping that Rundblad is all that Karlsson is offensively but with some defensive abilities.

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Old
06-09-2011, 03:27 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukus View Post
Lehner is actually a prime candidate to move. We have no immediate need at that position while we have a more pressing need on our top 2 lines. Packaging Lehner with our 21st and one or two 2nd rounders could entice one of the teams in the top 5 picks if a goalie is on their radar.
Over their 18 year history, the Ottawa Senators have had just about the worst goaltending of any team over that same period. Anderson's 18 games didn't change anything. 18 more games could see us begging have him sent down to the AHL.

Until a Sens goalie starts winning Vezina's like Hasek or Plante, goaltending is always an immediate need in Ottawa.

Or to put it in a more likely and reasonable perspective; until former Sens starting goalies stop signing Atlant Mytischi and can actually perform as a legit #1 goalie on a real NHL team...

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06-09-2011, 05:14 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Over their 18 year history, the Ottawa Senators have had just about the worst goaltending of any team over that same period. Anderson's 18 games didn't change anything. 18 more games could see us begging have him sent down to the AHL.

Until a Sens goalie starts winning Vezina's like Hasek or Plante, goaltending is always an immediate need in Ottawa.

Or to put it in a more likely and reasonable perspective; until former Sens starting goalies stop signing Atlant Mytischi and can actually perform as a legit #1 goalie on a real NHL team...
While I totally agree with the first part of your comment, Anderson is now signed for the next 4 years and so you can be sure no rookie will dethrone him for the #1 goalie job or Murray is out of a job. I didn't like his signing but we have to move forward now that it's a done deal.

Now your second statement is a bit ludicrous. There can only be one Vezina winner every year... does that mean all 29 other teams suddenly have an immediate need for a goalie? I do understand the point you're making but we've addressed the goaltending issue (so we hope) and so we have to move on to the next weakness.

Having addressed the goaltending and with an abundance of young top prospects on defense, it's clear where we need to focus now. While every team would like to be overstacked at all positions and assure themselves of a constant replenishment of talent whenever it's needed, that's not realistic. We're stacked on defense and on draft picks. We have to use them to accelerate our rebuilding which will only occur if we find talent upfront.

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Old
06-09-2011, 05:29 PM
  #73
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This thread started bad enough, but it really hit the bottom at the "no Lehner for a top5 pick" part.

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Old
06-09-2011, 05:30 PM
  #74
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Erik Karlsson for New Jersey's #4 pick!

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Old
06-09-2011, 05:34 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukus View Post
While I totally agree with the first part of your comment, Anderson is now signed for the next 4 years and so you can be sure no rookie will dethrone him for the #1 goalie job or Murray is out of a job. I didn't like his signing but we have to move forward now that it's a done deal.

Now your second statement is a bit ludicrous. There can only be one Vezina winner every year... does that mean all 29 other teams suddenly have an immediate need for a goalie? I do understand the point you're making but we've addressed the goaltending issue (so we hope) and so we have to move on to the next weakness.

Having addressed the goaltending and with an abundance of young top prospects on defense, it's clear where we need to focus now. While every team would like to be overstacked at all positions and assure themselves of a constant replenishment of talent whenever it's needed, that's not realistic. We're stacked on defense and on draft picks. We have to use them to accelerate our rebuilding which will only occur if we find talent upfront.
Sign Gerber, trade Emery...
- Emery never saves the team during the first half of that season.
- Team doesn't make the playoffs, let alone the extremely exciting Finals run.
- Team declines quicker (unnecessarily) in front of life-sucking, choke demon Gerber over 3 years.

Anderson and Lehner as the only two goalies in the entire organization doesn't make it stacked. Not even close. Nor or their tenures with the team likely to butt heads all that much.

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