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Dan Girardi

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Old
06-07-2011, 02:56 PM
  #26
iamitter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
You sound like you are basing that off a lot of hate here on these boards.

Heatley has been a perfect gentlemen and by all reports a great teammate since he arrived here. We have not heard one single report of any issues what-so-ever and he has played well. He had a broken hand this year, and the entire team was down scoring wise (Heatley was only 9 points back from the lead, Marleau).

We want to move him only because his skill-set is redundant here, and he hasn't really 'fit in'. Plus we would like to get less top-heavy and Heatley is the easiest to move.

Anyway, I understand if you guys don't want to move Girardi, I was just trying to help both teams. I think it's a trade that would actually make both team's better, which is always nice.
My issue isn't with moving Girardi and like I said, I thought it was a pretty fair trade value wise. It does help both teams in areas they struggle. However, a lot of wiggle room to get Richards for us would be from buying out Drury and losing that would mean we have to buyout Wolski (which wouldn't be too bad considering Heatley fills his spot). Now, we're at a position where we're against the cap and don't have any wiggle room to give raises bar any increase to the salary cap. Imagine Heatley clashes with Torts or the NY media? We'd be in a position where we may not be able to keep our young guys due to the cap and a grizzled Heatley doesn't help us with their case. I wasn't aware Heatley was so composed in SJ, but that still leaves us a question mark with the NY media.

Girardi is and has been excellent for us, but we have a ton of young guys waiting to pick up the reins for him (maybe not on LD right now, but still). I'm not opposed to trading him now, although I would prefer to do it in around a year or so when we see how some of our prospects play in their first/second years. I also don't think he'll be traded this year because Tortorella was very impressed with his playoff performance.

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06-07-2011, 03:03 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
My issue isn't with moving Girardi and like I said, I thought it was a pretty fair trade value wise. It does help both teams in areas they struggle. However, a lot of wiggle room to get Richards for us would be from buying out Drury and losing that would mean we have to buyout Wolski (which wouldn't be too bad considering Heatley fills his spot). Now, we're at a position where we're against the cap and don't have any wiggle room to give raises bar any increase to the salary cap. Imagine Heatley clashes with Torts or the NY media? We'd be in a position where we may not be able to keep our young guys due to the cap and a grizzled Heatley doesn't help us with their case. I wasn't aware Heatley was so composed in SJ, but that still leaves us a question mark with the NY media.

Girardi is and has been excellent for us, but we have a ton of young guys waiting to pick up the reins for him (maybe not on LD right now, but still). I'm not opposed to trading him now, although I would prefer to do it in around a year or so when we see how some of our prospects play in their first/second years. I also don't think he'll be traded this year because Tortorella was very impressed with his playoff performance.
I actually did look at your cap before I mentioned the trade and it didn't look like you guys would have much problem affording Richards and Heatley (as long as Richards isn't looking for something absurd) as long as Drury was off the books, I must have missed something. It certainly doesn't make sense if you don't have the cap space. I thought you were looking at a net increase of 300k (500k for Heatley - 200k for Vlasic/Girardi).

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06-07-2011, 03:09 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I actually did look at your cap before I mentioned the trade and it didn't look like you guys would have much problem affording Richards and Heatley (as long as Richards isn't looking for something absurd) as long as Drury was off the books, I must have missed something. It certainly doesn't make sense if you don't have the cap space. I thought you were looking at a net increase of 300k (500k for Heatley - 200k for Vlasic/Girardi).
We have to resign a lot of our RFAs to higher contracts. Assuming the contracts we expect them to get and the cap going to 63.5, we can just barely fit Richards in without any buyouts. A lower cap than 63.5 and an addition of 300k will mean buying out Wolski is a necessity.

Edit: Well, not a necessity unless we overpay each of our RFA's by 100-200k each, but we'd be left with cap space of 5 dollars, maybe.

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06-07-2011, 03:19 PM
  #29
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Just link one of the other Girardi: Value Of threads. There's a new one every week.

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06-07-2011, 03:20 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
I'm a huge Clowe fan but I'm not doing that deal. Girardi for Clowe is almost even up IMO, very similar players but one is a forward and the other is a defender. Clowe's offense is inflated by who he playes with. 24, 19, 22 goals, sure...near 40 assists...I dunno if he's that much of a play maker. Anywhere else he's a 22g 25-30 assist guy. A lot like Brandon Dubinsky if you ask me.
Clowe is a much better playmaker than Dubinsky where as I see Dubi as a better finisher.

One of the main focuses of getting a guy like Clowe is to increase the talent/size and compete level of our top 6.

You get a clowe here and while he's not the ideal 1st line LW, he's a better fit for that position should we be able to nail down Richards as a UFA.

top line of Clowe-Richards-Gaborik followed by the Dubi-Anisimov-Callahan line is dangerous.

Clowe does alot for the Rangers top 6 beyond the ability to put up points. A big bodied player that can create space with his style of play.

It's not a negative that he can play with talented players. The 40+ assists means that he's a very talented guy himself.

Is adding MZA a bit of an overpayment? Probably, but one I ma willing to make to get a player that is going to make the Rangers a better team.

MZA is not long for the Rangers any way. He'll be gone before the season is over.

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Old
06-07-2011, 03:29 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Clowe is a much better playmaker than Dubinsky where as I see Dubi as a better finisher.

One of the main focuses of getting a guy like Clowe is to increase the talent/size and compete level of our top 6.

You get a clowe here and while he's not the ideal 1st line LW, he's a better fit for that position should we be able to nail down Richards as a UFA.

top line of Clowe-Richards-Gaborik followed by the Dubi-Anisimov-Callahan line is dangerous.

Clowe does alot for the Rangers top 6 beyond the ability to put up points. A big bodied player that can create space with his style of play.

It's not a negative that he can play with talented players. The 40+ assists means that he's a very talented guy himself.

Is adding MZA a bit of an overpayment? Probably, but one I ma willing to make to get a player that is going to make the Rangers a better team.

MZA is not long for the Rangers any way. He'll be gone before the season is over.
This is exactly what I've been pushing for for quite a while now.

Would really love to have Clowe be that top line LW we are looking for.

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Old
06-07-2011, 04:58 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by I Love Rebecca Black View Post
This is exactly what I've been pushing for for quite a while now.

Would really love to have Clowe be that top line LW we are looking for.
I just wouldn't feel comfortable swapping Clowe for Girardi. I don't see a situation where we end up a better team after that trade.

Honestly, if we can't get rid of Heatley's salary, we are better off getting a top-4 from the UFA pool and working with what we have again, they did get us to the conference finals.

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06-07-2011, 05:20 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I just wouldn't feel comfortable swapping Clowe for Girardi. I don't see a situation where we end up a better team after that trade.

Honestly, if we can't get rid of Heatley's salary, we are better off getting a top-4 from the UFA pool and working with what we have again, they did get us to the conference finals.
as a Rangers fan, Girardi does alot of things that you must watch him to see. he blocks shots, plays hurt, plays against top lines all the time.


rangers need is size up front with grit not big guys who are soft like Ponikarovsky or Zubrus. they do have skill and some grit with Dubinsky and Callahan which are not available but they do need big players with toughness like Ryan Clowe, Dustin Brown, David Backes, Wayne Simmons.

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06-07-2011, 06:08 PM
  #34
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I think Girardi is one of the most underrated defensmen in the NHL. I wouldnt want Detroit to give up the huge amount of assets it would take to pry him away from the Rangers. That being said I would love to have him on Detroit.

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06-07-2011, 06:10 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
as a Rangers fan, Girardi does alot of things that you must watch him to see. he blocks shots, plays hurt, plays against top lines all the time.


rangers need is size up front with grit not big guys who are soft like Ponikarovsky or Zubrus. they do have skill and some grit with Dubinsky and Callahan which are not available but they do need big players with toughness like Ryan Clowe, Dustin Brown, David Backes, Wayne Simmons.
Wait, what?

Zubrus' best asset is how well he uses his size.

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06-07-2011, 06:10 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Clowe is a much better playmaker than Dubinsky where as I see Dubi as a better finisher.

It's not a negative that he can play with talented players. The 40+ assists means that he's a very talented guy himself.
Lets not overrate Clowe. He's never gotten 40 assists in his career or in the NHL and there's no doubt that SJS has a more potent offense than NYR.

AGE NAME G - A PTS --- NAME G A PTS
28 Clowe 24 38 62
27 Clowe 19 38 57
26 Clowe 22 30 52
25 Clowe 03 05 08 - Dubinsky 24 30 54
24 Clowe 58 16 18 - Dubinsky 20 24 44
23 Clowe 00 02 02 - Dubinsky 13 28 41
22 Clowe Minors --- Dubinsky 14 26 40

Dubinsky is doing more than what Clowe did, earlier than Clowe did. Even now, this past season the difference between their stats was 8 assists. You don't think if Dubinsky was on SJS who has a far superior offense to NYR that he would have obtained 8 more assists?
G/G - SJS 6th, NYR 16th

PP% - SJS 2nd, NYR 18th

I think Dubinsky could have managed a few more secondary assists if he played on SJS.

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06-07-2011, 06:29 PM
  #37
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Let's not get into the 'my player is better than you think he is' thing. Never ends well.

Point is, the deal need to help both teams, I doubt any Sharks fan would feel losing Clowe for Girardi makes us better overall. Clowe is just too damn important to us. If we had a shot at say, Weber, or hell even Staal, and we had to give up Clowe + that probably makes more sense for us because we get the player we need, not a consolation prize while creating a huge hole.

We can afford to give up Heatley, Seto, maybe Vlasic and picks/prospects, beyond that it would have to be one hell of a deal for it to make sense. That's why I was proposing swapping for Drury so we could do each other a favor and both come out ahead.

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06-07-2011, 06:31 PM
  #38
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A Girardi/Clowe trade is really a lateral move for both teams, I would think. Clowe would be nice, but he isn't exactly the best fit. The Rangers need a goal scorer as the 1st line LW, considering Gaborik is, essentially, the only player on the team with above-average finishing skills.

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06-07-2011, 07:04 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Let's not get into the 'my player is better than you think he is' thing. Never ends well.

Point is, the deal need to help both teams, I doubt any Sharks fan would feel losing Clowe for Girardi makes us better overall. Clowe is just too damn important to us. If we had a shot at say, Weber, or hell even Staal, and we had to give up Clowe + that probably makes more sense for us because we get the player we need, not a consolation prize while creating a huge hole.

We can afford to give up Heatley, Seto, maybe Vlasic and picks/prospects, beyond that it would have to be one hell of a deal for it to make sense. That's why I was proposing swapping for Drury so we could do each other a favor and both come out ahead.
Sorry didn't intend it to be that way. Like I said I'm a huge Clowe fan. The guy is a beast. Anyone who says otherwise is a nuts....maybe I got a little carried away being a homer and loving Dubinsky

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06-07-2011, 08:20 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Go Wings View Post
I think Girardi is one of the most underrated defensmen in the NHL. I wouldnt want Detroit to give up the huge amount of assets it would take to pry him away from the Rangers. That being said I would love to have him on Detroit.
something, something, something, and Jarnkrok

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Old
06-08-2011, 09:36 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I was more wondering if the Rangers might have interest in Heatley. Gaborik didn't get the job done, and obviously the rangers are looking to get Richards. A top line of Gaborik - Richards - Heatley would be a vast improvement. Would the Rangers consider sending Girardi back for Heatley if we took Drury off your hands? That would allow the Rangers to afford that line.

Something like:

Heatley, Vlasic, SJ 1st
for
Girardi, Drury, NYR 1st

Is that reasonable?
Hockeyball! Hey, how's it going!

last year we basically had a Girardi for a 1st, last year's draft, better value, discussed, DG + for 2 firsts, or something around DG for Clowe as a core, but no cap room.

Can see a core of sending you Girardi, dumping Drury cap space (NMC asaide) you sending us a first +.

Heatley interesting project, but have reservations --- how long is contract, cap...

best wishes...

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06-08-2011, 09:39 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
Its not the right time to look to trade Girardi yet, and i think itl be next year that he is shopped around depending upong how well our young up and coming, talented blueliners pan out.

But i believe it would be something along the lines of Girardi, a pick, and a good prospect like MZA for a player like Patrick Sharp.


I dont think Girardi will be moved for anything but a 1st line foward
Yeah, sign me up, but getting back to reality, they'll want and get more..

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06-08-2011, 09:41 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Sorry but Girardi alone should get a Patrick Sharp kind of player.

If I had to part with more, then I am keeping Girardi.

I'd do Girardi and MZA for Clowe, but that's about it.
Can't see that happening. Ever.

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06-08-2011, 11:17 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Hockeyball! Hey, how's it going!

last year we basically had a Girardi for a 1st, last year's draft, better value, discussed, DG + for 2 firsts, or something around DG for Clowe as a core, but no cap room.

Can see a core of sending you Girardi, dumping Drury cap space (NMC asaide) you sending us a first +.

Heatley interesting project, but have reservations --- how long is contract, cap...

best wishes...
Contract is till 2014, and after this season his salary is considerably less than his cap hit.

I figured Drury would waive for a good team because NYR are not going to re-sign him and it's in his best interest to find a new team as soon as he can and prove that he's still worth signing next off-season. If he has another pitiful season with the Rangers and goes into FA, he's looking at a difficult situation.

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06-10-2011, 07:27 AM
  #45
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Would like him for ATL/WPG. I would even take Wolski as part of the deal if NY want to free up cap space.
I was thinking along the lines of:
To ATL/WPG: Dan Girardi, Wojtek Wolski
To NYR: Johnny Oduya, Tim Stapleton

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06-10-2011, 07:33 AM
  #46
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Would like him for ATL/WPG. I would even take Wolski as part of the deal if NY want to free up cap space.
I was thinking along the lines of:
To ATL/WPG: Dan Girardi, Wojtek Wolski
To NYR: Johnny Oduya, Tim Stapleton
If the Rangers trade Girardi it would be in a package for a star player, not a lateral move, and not prospects.

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06-10-2011, 07:37 AM
  #47
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If the Rangers trade Girardi it would be in a package for a star player, not a lateral move, and not prospects.
So they wouldn't use him as a trade asset to free up cap space?
Which is what my proposal is suggesting. I agree Girardi and Oduya are similar players.

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06-10-2011, 07:46 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Evan View Post
So they wouldn't use him as a trade asset to free up cap space?
Which is what my proposal is suggesting. I agree Girardi and Oduya are similar players.
Why would they do that? Girardi + Wolski buyout takes as much cap space as Oduya and Stapleton. Girardi is also a lot better player than Oduya so why would they significantly downgrade on D when they could save the cap space by buying Wolski out if they so wanted?

Girardi >>> Oduya
Wolski >> Stapleton

That's a pretty damn awful proposal from the Rangers' point of view.

If you want the Rangers to use Girardi as a trade bait to free up cap space then you need to propose something like this:

Girardi + Wolski for Little/Burmistrov + mediocore prospect

That might get the Rangers' attention.

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06-10-2011, 08:00 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan View Post
So they wouldn't use him as a trade asset to free up cap space?
Which is what my proposal is suggesting. I agree Girardi and Oduya are similar players.
Wolski isn't a cap problem, at all. We have no problem keeping him at 3.8 mil. And if we want that money to spend on someone else we can probably trade him for a pick or, worst case scenario, we can buy him out. He's 25 years old, so his buyout is 1/3rd, which means his cap hit this year would only be $466,667.

The Rangers have never, and likely will never, trade away valuable assets in order to clear cap space. We didn't give up anything of value to get rid of Gomez or Redden. Drury will be bought out. Our cap situation is pretty good right now, all things considered. If you're looking to take advantage of the Rangers cap situation, you are barking up the wrong tree.

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06-10-2011, 10:55 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan View Post
So they wouldn't use him as a trade asset to free up cap space?
Which is what my proposal is suggesting. I agree Girardi and Oduya are similar players.
They might but they probably won't.
Recovering cap is very useful, but you still need the horses to win the games.
A shrewd cap move gets done every so often (Rozsival for Wolski, given the Wolski buyout option), but even then there is a preference for at least some risk of upgrade (Wolski finding his offensive zone).

See Rangers adding to and upgrading, w/Girardi either they try first for an F, but adding to get an upgrade at D is possible also, especially if that D can score/QB the point on the power play.

The motivation to deal Girardi comes from lots of good D/D prospects, and that being more or less as a rule the only card we can play if we don't want to move guys like Callahan, etc....

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