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06-10-2011, 07:36 AM
  #1
TakeThatTootoo
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Buyouts - Does it make sense?

Listening to WGR this morning. If we need cap space (for whatever reason), would you buy out any of these players?

Brad Boyes - 2011 Cap Hit: $4 million. 2011 Buyout Cap amount: $1.3 mil. 2011 Potential Cap Savings: $2.66 mil

Shaone Morrisonn - 2011 Cap Hit: $2,075,000. 2011 Buyout Cap Amount: $691,667. 2011 Potential Cap Savings: $1,383,333

Jochen Hecht - 2011 Cap Hit: $3,525,000. 2011 Buyout Cap Amount: $1,525,000. 2011 Potential Cap Savings: $2,000,000

Interesting huh? $6 million cap space.

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06-10-2011, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nudave View Post
Listening to WGR this morning. If we need cap space (for whatever reason), would you buy out any of these players?

Brad Boyes - 2011 Cap Hit: $4 million. 2011 Buyout Cap amount: $1.3 mil. 2011 Potential Cap Savings: $2.66 mil

Shaone Morrisonn - 2011 Cap Hit: $2,075,000. 2011 Buyout Cap Amount: $691,667. 2011 Potential Cap Savings: $1,383,333

Jochen Hecht - 2011 Cap Hit: $3,525,000. 2011 Buyout Cap Amount: $1,525,000. 2011 Potential Cap Savings: $2,000,000

Interesting huh? $6 million cap space.
It is interesting, but whats the point? Bury Morrisonn in the minors... and if you buyout Boyes and Hecht our depth at wing is erased.

I know Boyes and Hecht don't offer as much as we'd all like, but they are much better options than rookies. We could sign replacements too, but for the money we probably aren't going to get players who are that much better than these two, and we'd be stuck paying for the buyouts.

I know you were just stating the facts and not saying we should buy them out... I'm just saying I don't see the point in buying them out.

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06-10-2011, 08:00 AM
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I agree. It comes down to do you want Boyes on the ice or not?

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06-10-2011, 08:02 AM
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rabi
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1) Try to trade Hecht
then
2) Put him on waivers
then
3) Buy him out

I know it's cruel to do this before we play in Germany, but if he would've contributed more to this team in the last few years, then we wouldn't be in this frame of mind...

I'd rather play a rookie who can do 82 games and the playoffs...

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06-10-2011, 08:07 AM
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Why do so many people want to get rid of Boyes? I know he didn't do an awesome job in the playoffs, but he was still pretty solid for us from the trade deadline up to the end of the regular season.


edit- I forgot to mention that I think buying out Shamo's contract would be a great idea. As for Hecht, I wouldn't mind if we traded him, bought him out, kept him as a depth player, or put him on a third line wing. I just don't want to see him as our number 2 center...

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06-10-2011, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabi View Post
1) Try to trade Hecht
then
2) Put him on waivers
then
3) Buy him out

I know it's cruel to do this before we play in Germany, but if he would've contributed more to this team in the last few years, then we wouldn't be in this frame of mind...

I'd rather play a rookie who can do 82 games and the playoffs...
What rookie? I don't know of any rookie in our system that would be a better option than Hecht... Kassian and Foligno both need a year or 2 in the minors, and I think Adam is still 1 year away from being a reliable pro.

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06-10-2011, 08:29 AM
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Tim Murray
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It isn't Hecht's fault that he's our number 2 center. Buy him out, and then what? Boyes at C? Gaustad on the second line?

The solution is to find a legit #2. Well, I should say legit #1 so Roy can play #2.

I'll never understand the Hecht hate. Misplaced doesn't begin to describe it.

Morrisonn can go play in the minors.

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06-10-2011, 08:29 AM
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You'd gain $6M in cap space for 11-12, then have $3M in dead money on the books for 12-13. What's the point?

You also don't really gain $6M in cap space since you then have to pay 3 more players to fill those roster spots.

Buyouts are not some magic bullet. They have consequences. If the Sabres are going to be spending close to the cap every year, they're not going to want dead money laying around and hindering what they can do.

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06-10-2011, 08:34 AM
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All 3 players are UFAs after 2011-12.

Buying them out will make the cap situation better for this season, but worse for 2012-13.

I don't know that the Sabres will need cap space more this summer than next.

And if they do, I'd much rather bury guys in the AHL than buy them out.

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06-10-2011, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregor View Post
It isn't Hecht's fault that he's our number 2 center. Buy him out, and then what? Boyes at C? Gaustad on the second line?

The solution is to find a legit #2. Well, I should say legit #1 so Roy can play #2.

I'll never understand the Hecht hate. Misplaced doesn't begin to describe it.

Morrisonn can go play in the minors.
Gerbe - Hecht - Boyes isnt a terrible 3rd line. You have potentially 3 15 goal scorers and 2 20 goal scorers.

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06-10-2011, 08:57 AM
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We're seriously talking about buying out guys like Hecht and Boyes? That's laughable. Both are productive players, even if overpaid, and both contribute to the excellent depth we have on the wing. Hecht is a good two-way player and our best puck possession winger. Boyes can give you 50+ points. And even if you didn't want either, both could be traded, making the buyout issue completely moot.

The only player who should be in the discussion for a buyout is ShaMo. But I think he can be traded, too. Or, if not, somebody may claim him off waivers.

Besides, who are we signing to make buyouts an issue? Brad Richards, Kevin Bieksa, and Brooks Laich? Yeah, right. This thread is going to quickly turn into "Grind your axe against a player you don't want to see on the team next season," if it hasn't already.

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06-10-2011, 09:00 AM
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Was just throwing it out there. I picked these 3 because WGR picked them when listening this morning

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06-10-2011, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
We're seriously talking about buying out guys like Hecht and Boyes? That's laughable. Both are productive players, even if overpaid, and both contribute to the excellent depth we have on the wing. Hecht is a good two-way player and our best puck possession winger. Boyes can give you 50+ points. And even if you didn't want either, both could be traded, making the buyout issue completely moot.

The only player who should be in the discussion for a buyout is ShaMo. But I think he can be traded, too. Or, if not, somebody may claim him off waivers.

Besides, who are we signing to make buyouts an issue? Brad Richards, Kevin Bieksa, and Brooks Laich? Yeah, right. This thread is going to quickly turn into "Grind your axe against a player you don't want to see on the team next season," if it hasn't already.
Well we have a lot of sidekicks, so if you can buyout Hecht and Boyes and get a #2 d-man and a #1 center you do it.

Regier has always liked the trade market more than free agency, I dont think that will change with Pegula. The only thing that will change is the type of contracts they go after in a trade.

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06-10-2011, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nudave View Post
Was just throwing it out there. I picked these 3 because WGR picked them when listening this morning
Considering that the WGR guys generally don't put any thought into these things, and just scrape Twitter for fan 'ideas', you probably shouldn't put too much thought into what they say.

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06-10-2011, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
Considering that the WGR guys generally don't put any thought into these things, and just scrape Twitter for fan 'ideas', you probably shouldn't put too much thought into what they say.
I usually agree. Thought it was an "out of the box" idea, and worth thinking about if we really needed to.

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06-10-2011, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Well we have a lot of sidekicks, so if you can buyout Hecht and Boyes and get a #2 d-man and a #1 center you do it.

Regier has always liked the trade market more than free agency, I dont think that will change with Pegula. The only thing that will change is the type of contracts they go after in a trade.
But you still have to fill Hecht's and Boyes' positions, and that costs money. When you take the cost of the replacement player + buyout cost, it's not worth it. Especially not when you'd be making your team worse at those positions, which you would be doing. You don't buy out players like Boyes and Hecht when they have one season left on a contract. It's stupid.

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06-10-2011, 09:52 AM
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Buyouts may make financial sense on the ledger sheets but are a cop-out from making responsible personnel choices in the first place - and, frankly, any money saved on a team's salary cap would be dwarfed by the negative marketing message it would send to free agents around the NHL as to what kind of stability exists in the organization. It's akin to a "hire-to-fire" mentality that a lot of companies use - and how many of us would be eager to join a company with a reputation for firing employees in boatloads as soon as a particular project or commission is done with?

The Rangers have cemented a reputation for buying big and regretting it afterwards several times in the past decade - players may love the bright lights and glamour of going there initially but if any of them care about having a career of more than 2-3 years there before they are at the mercy of being dumped for salary reasons, NY can't be appealing.

The Sabres are trying hard to repair an organizational reputation for being cheap and uncommitted to keeping the players needed to win. Buying out contracts may not be a cheap way to go financially but it is an easy out for disposing of players like a used tissue. If they were to buy out a player like Boyes or Morrisonn after only short tenures with their team, the message sent to the NHL is as negative as the one that letting past stars walk away for nothing was IMO.



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06-10-2011, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
Considering that the WGR guys generally don't put any thought into these things, and just scrape Twitter for fan 'ideas', you probably shouldn't put too much thought into what they say.
Agreed - the morning show hosts are people who think the predictions of Eklund are gospel and who hang on every word that Hamilton says.

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06-10-2011, 10:20 AM
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The only time a buyout makes sense is if the player has a NMC as then he can't be stashed in the AHL. Having dead money on the books is ludicrous in the NHL as the salary is prorated over the course of the contract unlike in the NFL where the cap is circumvented through frontloading the contract with signing bonuses which don't count, in that league buyouts are the name of the game.

Simply, if you don't want the player's salary on the books; attempt to trade him, especially in the Hecht, Boyes, Morrisson cases where they're on the last year of their contract and would be more palatable to other teams; waive him, in the hopes that someone picks them up and if not you have a veteran presence down on the farm or loaned to a Euro team.

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06-10-2011, 10:30 AM
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I think it's circumstantial, but having an owner with self proclaimed deep pockets certainly makes that a viable option!

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06-10-2011, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
But you still have to fill Hecht's and Boyes' positions, and that costs money. When you take the cost of the replacement player + buyout cost, it's not worth it. Especially not when you'd be making your team worse at those positions, which you would be doing. You don't buy out players like Boyes and Hecht when they have one season left on a contract. It's stupid.
That is true. Again it all depends on if you need the space or not to get the #1 center.

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06-10-2011, 11:07 AM
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Knew this thread was coming after WGR this morning... I see know reason why we couldn't get qt least a low round pick for Boyes or Hecht at the very least... It makes no sense to buy them out. ShaMo at least makes a little sense because I don't want him in my top 6 in the NHL and I don't want him wasting a valuable prospects ice time down in the AHL...

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06-10-2011, 11:20 AM
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Knew this thread was coming after WGR this morning... I see know reason why we couldn't get qt least a low round pick for Boyes or Hecht at the very least... It makes no sense to buy them out. ShaMo at least makes a little sense because I don't want him in my top 6 in the NHL and I don't want him wasting a valuable prospects ice time down in the AHL...
Can you say #7 Defenseman? If he doesn't pick up his game give him the Rivet treatment and call up guys from the AHL to play when we have injuries. Regardless if we waived ShaMo I think he'd get claimed no need to buy him out.

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06-10-2011, 11:21 AM
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Hecht may be a bit overpaid but he's a huge asset to this team. He's our best puck-possession forward, best on the wall, best on the cycle, one of the best on the forecheck and in defensive situations...

It's not flashy, but you need guys like Jochen to be a good contending team. How soon we all forget that we were begging for him to get healthy at the end of the season. His salary isn't prohibitive.

Boyes is expensive as a 3RW but he's only got one year left. Leave him on the wing where he belongs and I'm sure we'll get 50 points out of him. Trade him if we desperately need cap space, it's not like he has no value.

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06-10-2011, 11:34 AM
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No, they don't make any sense, because the cap space freed up by those guys will be mostly spent on Ennis and Myers next year. Buying them out and filling those positions with guys on multi year contract with a similar cap hit will make for cap hell next off-season. And replacing them with someone with a lower cap hit doesn't warrant buying out a productive player when you have cap space left.

Not to mention that Boyes and Hecht are perfectly fine for the 3rd line. ShaMo is the only guy fighting for a regular roster spot and swallowing 3% of the cap for one year for a #7 d-man isn't the worst thing in the world.

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