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2011 NHL Entry Draft/Other Prospects (All NON-RANGERS Prospect Discussion - Part 3) ‎

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Old
06-10-2011, 12:03 AM
  #876
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Strome is a complete pipe dream. That would be awesome, but Armia actually has a possibility of falling--albeit not a great one.

Still a chance, though.

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06-10-2011, 12:05 AM
  #877
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Armia is by far my favorite prospect in this draft. I'll do back flips if we get him.

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06-10-2011, 12:07 AM
  #878
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Originally Posted by nyrfan444 View Post
It may be a message board filled with amateurs, but that doesn't mean that there aren't intelligient, well-informed opinions to be had if you sift through all the other noise.

All those people who are posting here that they watch all our prospects on a regular basis are lying.

It's not possible for multiple reasons.

1. We are in NYC where not a single junior game is shown.

2. People have jobs, school, families so they can't follow several dozen teams on even semi-regular basis.

3. Most junior games are not on TV anywhere, so you cannot even get a tape.

4. Even if the first three points did not apply, it is impossible to watch that many games, which often take place at the same time.

5. Stop and ask them on the spot to discuss some player who is on the same team, but is unheralded. If they watch these teams on a regular basis, they would know stars as well as shrubs. We know who Fedotenko is, right? So ask them about a marginal third liner on McIlrath's junior team. They will have no clue who you are talking about.

All those people here claiming to watch juniors are just trying to make themselves into experts just to make themselves feel good.

They usually don't have a respectable job, a woman, any accomplishment to speak of. Being a great expert at their hobby is the only thing that makes them feel good. There is nothing else in their lives.

And so they claim that they sit there watching junior, college and Euro hockey on a daily basis in hopes that we will recognize them as experts, and more importantly, as being intelligent and worthy.

But let's be honest: where in New York will you get junior broadcasts? And when can you possibly have the time to watch dozens of games for that many prospects?


Last edited by Beacon: 06-10-2011 at 12:23 AM.
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06-10-2011, 12:20 AM
  #879
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Its hard to find a Rangers fan that can give an intelligent assessment of a current Ranger, let alone players on other NHL teams, let alone 18 year old kids playing in Canada or over seas.

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06-10-2011, 12:20 AM
  #880
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You do know that you can pay for subscriptions to watch every single game played in the CHL, right RangerEsq?

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06-10-2011, 12:27 AM
  #881
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post

They usually don't have a respectable job, a woman, any accomplishment to speak of. Being a great expert at their hobby is the only thing that makes them feel good. There is nothing else in their lives.
Nail on head here!

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06-10-2011, 12:28 AM
  #882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
All those people who are posting here that they watch all our prospects on a regular basis are lying.

It's not possible for multiple reasons.

1. We are in NYC where not a single game is shown.

2. People have jobs, school, families so they can't follow several dozen teams on even semi-regular basis.

3. Most junior games are not on TV.

4. Even if the first three points did not apply, it is impossible to watch that many games, which take place at the same time.

5. Stop and ask them on the spot to discuss some player who is on the same team, but is unheralded.if they watch these teams on a regular basis, they would know stars as well as shrubs. We know who Fedotenko is, right? So ask them about a marginal third liner on McIlrath's junior team. They will have no clue who you are talking about.

All those people here claiming to watch juniors are just trying to make themselves into experts just to make themselves feel good.

They usually don't have a respectable job, a woman, any accomplishment to speak of. Being a great expert at their hobby is the only thing that makes them feel good. There is nothing else in their lives.

And so they claim that they sit there watching junior, college and Euro hockey on a daily basis in hopes that we will recognize them as experts, and more importantly as being intelligent and worthy.

But let's be honest: where in New York will you get junior broadcasts? And when can you possibly have the time to watch dozens of games for that many prospects?
Well, for one, I think you're underestimating the way scouting is conducted.

Virtually all junior games, and not just in the CHL, but in some European countries, are taped. Teams and scouts get LOADS of footage, highly organized depending on their interest. They have people that work with the video, make it as time-friendly as possible. They cut out all extemporaneous footage, time outs, commercial breaks, etc. They have reels focusing on specific players/lines/game situations, etc.

Also, as goose pointed out, all junior games are available VIA subscription, as are some European leagues.

I like that you're basically calling out most of the people that do the most contributing to the board here. Amusing stuff.

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06-10-2011, 12:35 AM
  #883
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Most of my thoughts on prospects come from reading many different scouting reports. Of course, I watch when I can and I do have a small bias towards some of those players, especially ones I've seen live. Went up to Buffalo for the WJC's and fell in love with Armia. AHL/NCAA games are on TV relatively often, and the memorial cup was on. Although I don't personally, you can pay for streams. I'm pretty sure xbox can stream KHL games as well.


A lot of people here live in Hartford, and give us constant updates on our guys down there, too.

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06-10-2011, 12:40 AM
  #884
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Originally Posted by Ih8theislanders View Post
Most of my thoughts on prospects come from reading many different scouting reports. Of course, I watch when I can and I do have a small bias towards some of those players, especially ones I've seen live. Went up to Buffalo for the WJC's and fell in love with Armia. AHL/NCAA games are on TV relatively often, and the memorial cup was on. Although I don't personally, you can pay for streams. I'm pretty sure xbox can stream KHL games as well.


A lot of people here live in Hartford, and give us constant updates on our guys down there, too.
Russian language stations that are available in NY (as well as other US locations with heavy Russian populations) show KHL games regularly, also. They also show some games from lesser European tournaments in which a Russian club or national squad might be participating in.

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06-10-2011, 12:42 AM
  #885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ih8theislanders View Post
Most of my thoughts on prospects come from reading many different scouting reports. Of course, I watch when I can and I do have a small bias towards some of those players, especially ones I've seen live. Went up to Buffalo for the WJC's and fell in love with Armia. AHL/NCAA games are on TV relatively often, and the memorial cup was on. Although I don't personally, you can pay for streams. I'm pretty sure xbox can stream KHL games as well.


A lot of people here live in Hartford, and give us constant updates on our guys down there, too.
YOu can follow Hartford or the Sarnia Sting or the Oshawa Generals. But you cannot watch everyone. If for no other reason than because they mostly play at the same time.

Like I said, anyone who is not a hockey professional who claims to watch prospects regularly is lying to make themselves respected in at least one venue, at least anonymously online.

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06-10-2011, 12:45 AM
  #886
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
YOu can follow Hartford or the Sarnia Sting or Oshawa Generals. But you cannot watch everyone. If for no other reason than because they mostly play at the same time.

Like I said, anyone who is not a hockey professional who claims to watch prospects regularly is lying to make themselves respected in at least one venue, at least anonymouslu online.
Sounds to me like someone is just jealous. There are a number of great posters here who contribute a lot of information about prospects, including mods, and rarely do these people give out bad information.

In fact, I'd probably go as far as to say that if it wasn't for that group of posters and a select group of others, like Rangerboy and Loffen for example, this place wouldn't be worth very much.

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06-10-2011, 12:46 AM
  #887
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
YOu can follow Hartford or the Sarnia Sting or the Oshawa Generals. But you cannot watch everyone. If for no other reason than because they mostly play at the same time.

Like I said, anyone who is not a hockey professional who claims to watch prospects regularly is lying to make themselves respected in at least one venue, at least anonymously online.
Haha well in the end if their lives are that pathetic than they know it. I think a few guys are just aholes and not very good scouts but thats why we're all on a random message board. While it is fair to expect guys not to be jerks it;s not really fair or reasonable to expect good scouting and I think we get that with a few people. Be glad you have better things to do than lie about seeing CHL games. That is IF people actually do that.

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06-10-2011, 12:52 AM
  #888
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This thread really went in the trash ...bunch of trolling and ego boosting going on.

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Old
06-10-2011, 01:08 AM
  #889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
YOu can follow Hartford or the Sarnia Sting or the Oshawa Generals. But you cannot watch everyone. If for no other reason than because they mostly play at the same time.

Like I said, anyone who is not a hockey professional who claims to watch prospects regularly is lying to make themselves respected in at least one venue, at least anonymously online.
Just because teams 'may' all play at once an any given night doesn't mean they can't all be watched at different times. You don't need to watch every scheduled game to form an opinion. Even at that, on nights where there is conflicting games, or you're not able to catch the game, you can DVR them, watch them later, specific points, less time total.

For someone that has such a strong opinion on things like our prospects/the draft I figured you'd be one of the people that did spend the time watching the kids play, now I know your opinions are based on anything other than what you read online.

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06-10-2011, 01:47 AM
  #890
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Good call, let's get this back on track. We've all been talking about how we should probably draft a forward, and I've been right there with that line of thinking. But the recent threads about possibly trading Girardi and/or McIlrath have gotten me thinking that maybe it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if we did draft a defenseman.

The question then, I guess is, who? I'm inclined to say Brodin or Clendening, but there are a number of options. Morrow has been rising up the charts a lot.
I'm not totally against taking a Dman, just seems like overload, especially with The blundertaker last year. That was just me joking kids

I like Morrow a lot, watched him play a good dozen games since last season, tough as nails and makes the smart play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrfan444 View Post
I wouldn't be overly thrilled but I could see us taking Klefbom, Beaulieu, or Oleksiak. And while it is not likely I would also not be surprised if Siemens was on the board.
Siemens wouldve been nice if we took a forward like Tarasenko or Kuznetsov last year. I was thinking of the 2011 draft last June when I was touting Clendening after his effort at the U-18's. Everyone was saying this draft is weak upfront, the meat is in the Dmen. I agree.

The trick with this draft is the raw talent, besides the top end obvious few, most will probably take a good 3 to 5 years to make an impact, and that's just not sexy enough for impatient owners/managers/fans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
All those people who are posting here that they watch all our prospects on a regular basis are lying.

It's not possible for multiple reasons.

They usually don't have a respectable job, a woman, any accomplishment to speak of. Being a great expert at their hobby is the only thing that makes them feel good. There is nothing else in their lives.
I can answer every one of those 'reasons', you'd be surprised. Plus, I don't believe anything you stereotyped in there actually applies to me

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06-10-2011, 03:42 AM
  #891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Sounds to me like someone is just jealous. There are a number of great posters here who contribute a lot of information about prospects, including mods, and rarely do these people give out bad information.

In fact, I'd probably go as far as to say that if it wasn't for that group of posters and a select group of others, like Rangerboy and Loffen for example, this place wouldn't be worth very much.
If he doesn't think it's possible for people to drop like $4 a game(literally what I paid to watch single archive games), he must be trolling.

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06-10-2011, 07:56 AM
  #892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
All those people who are posting here that they watch all our prospects on a regular basis are lying.

It's not possible for multiple reasons.

1. We are in NYC where not a single junior game is shown.

2. People have jobs, school, families so they can't follow several dozen teams on even semi-regular basis.

3. Most junior games are not on TV anywhere, so you cannot even get a tape.

4. Even if the first three points did not apply, it is impossible to watch that many games, which often take place at the same time.

5. Stop and ask them on the spot to discuss some player who is on the same team, but is unheralded. If they watch these teams on a regular basis, they would know stars as well as shrubs. We know who Fedotenko is, right? So ask them about a marginal third liner on McIlrath's junior team. They will have no clue who you are talking about.

All those people here claiming to watch juniors are just trying to make themselves into experts just to make themselves feel good.

They usually don't have a respectable job, a woman, any accomplishment to speak of. Being a great expert at their hobby is the only thing that makes them feel good. There is nothing else in their lives.

And so they claim that they sit there watching junior, college and Euro hockey on a daily basis in hopes that we will recognize them as experts, and more importantly, as being intelligent and worthy.

But let's be honest: where in New York will you get junior broadcasts? And when can you possibly have the time to watch dozens of games for that many prospects?
Blasphemy! ...Everyone here is either a professional scout, or a GM undercover. Dont you know anything?...LOL!


Last edited by Lion Hound: 06-10-2011 at 09:28 AM.
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Old
06-10-2011, 08:07 AM
  #893
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
You know what I love the most about you? How afraid you are to have an actual discussion. Such a ***** move, to change what someone says because you have no response for their actual point.

What's the matter? Not man enough to have a legitimate debate?

What I actually said was that McIlrath, like many North American kids who are big and strong, hasn't developed the necessary fundamentals yet, which is a big hindrance in becoming an NHL player. What I didn't say, despite your amusing insinuations, is that only European players know the fundamentals.



On the contrary, you add a lot of fun to this board. I love signing on and seeing the new depths you've managed to sink to.



What kind of lowlife threatens people over a message board? And you dare to make fun of other posters for being young?
I am not of afraid of anything, certainly not you, son!

You really think I am threatening you, I have no desire to teach you a lesson, I just wanted to get under your skin.

I know nothing of hockey, the only thing I know is, I would build a hockey team the same way the Bruins built their team and wouldn't you know they are in the Finals, how odd.

I want a team that will beat you in every aspect of the game, that means, on the scoreboard, along the boards, with their fist and with grace all wrapped into one.

I wanted a blend of both!

Now, you can flip it and tell me I know nothing and I only love goons...have at it!


Last edited by Orr Nightmare: 06-10-2011 at 09:30 AM.
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06-10-2011, 08:53 AM
  #894
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the dynamics of this draft just dont seem to setup well for us taking a dman again.

1. last year we reached for mcilrath at 10 with our ''we need to address our toughness'' draft theme.

2. essentially, we traded horak and 2 2nds for erixon who has top 10-15 skills in this years draft. hes probably gonna be our best draft choice, and certainly the most nhl ready, this year. hes is going to play this year.

3. we have both mcd and sauer who look to play serious minutes this season and del zotto- if he comes back and commits himself to his game and not chasing tail in manhattan every night- who very well may make the club outa camp.

4. both ktek and vtank look to be nearly nhl ready.

given all that, and the fact that this year really doesnt compare to next year when it comes to high end pmd's. next year is stacked with perhaps 7 guys who could all go in round 1. each of them have serious skills.

i say go forward this year. preferably, a centerman who can skate.

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06-10-2011, 10:10 AM
  #895
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interesting espn analysis of boston and its use of drafted prospects

Bruins vs. Blackhawks



There are two major differences between Boston and Chicago. First off, the Blackhawks have been among the worst at converting their draft picks into NHL players. Only 35 percent of their picks made it to the NHL; only 19 percent played 82 NHL games.



Meanwhile, the Bruins have been among the best in this category. They have drafted 180 players since 1990 and an astounding 79 of them made it to the NHL, with 45 of them playing at least 82 NHL games:



Draft Efficiency
These clubs were able to convert the highest percentage of draft picks into NHL players since 1990.

Team Pct. of picks with min. 82 GP Pct. of picks with min. 1 GP
San Jose Sharks 29.7% 50.3%
Boston Bruins 28.0% 49.1%
Colorado Avalanche 29.5% 48.9%
Ottawa Senators 26.2% 46.9%
New Jersey Devils 28.4% 46.4%


But the other major difference is what they did with those draft picks. Chicago built its championship team around them. Ten players were homegrown, which is incredible considering that they aren't great at drafting future NHLers. But what about Boston -- a team that converts 50 percent of picks into NHL players? How many homegrown players are on their roster?



Milan Lucic, Brad Marchand, David Krejci, Patrice Bergeron and Tyler Seguin. That's it.



Quality vs. Quantity

Now, before I go on, let's clear something up: Converting a high percentage of draft picks into NHL players isn't necessarily a good thing. It could mean the club is promoting prospects without much thought; it could mean the club is producing a lot of mediocre players, but not any stars; it could mean their NHL club isn't good enough to block up the pipelines. For example, the Detroit Red Wings have the lowest conversion rate: Only 31 percent of picks play in the NHL, and 20 percent of picks become NHL contributors. But we know the extent of their success. That's because the talent on their NHL club allows them to promote prospects judiciously.

But the Bruins? Not so much. On one hand, they've found a handful of draft steals, like Krejci, Lucic and Bergeron -- all second-rounders. But on the other hand, they have sacrificed quality in favor of quantity.


Overachievement of Draft Picks
We measured "quality" with Tom Awad's GVT metric. We're looking at all draft picks who have played at least 82 NHL games -- what we're calling "NHL contributors." The Bruins have been below average in not only getting good value from the draft, but also as far as raw performance.

Rank Team Avg. player performance Overperformance of draft slot
Top Detroit Red Wings 4.4 GVT/season 3.05 GVT/season
Average -- 3.72 1.91
No. 21 Boston Bruins 3.13 1.67
Bottom Columbus Blue Jackets 2.4 0


Even though Boston drafts a lot of future NHL players, they don't always get the best value relative to the draft slot. This indicates that they prefer safer picks -- players who are more likely to make the league, but have lower ceilings. Compound that with the fact that they only have five players from the draft on their roster, and it seems the Bruins have gained little value from their picks.



Where did the Bruins' value go?



However, Boston is in the Stanley Cup Finals, and they've made the playoffs 39 of the past 44 years, so the team has to be doing something right. What is it?



The key is looking what the Bruins did with their homegrown players -- particularly the ones who developed into NHL players. There are 17 of them since 2000 who have played 82 NHL games. Here's what happened to them:



Where did the Bruins' picks go?
Of the 17 Bruins' picks who are considered successes since 2000 (82 NHL games), the B's traded 11 of them.

Movement type Players
Trade (11) Phil Kessel, Vladimir Sobotka, Kris Versteeg, Matt Hunwick, Mark Stuart, Byron Bitz, Yan Stastny, Milan Jurcina, Shaone Morrisonn, Andrew Alberts, Andy Hilbert
Waivers (1) Nate Thompson
Other (1) Jarno Kultanen
Still with Bruins (4) Milan Lucic, David Krejci, Patrice Bergeron, Brad Marchand


Notice a pattern?



Boston gained a lot of value from the draft -- but it just insisted upon converting that value into other assets via trades. Often times, the team developed prospects to increase their value -- and then traded them away to fill needs. It's partly made possible because the Bruins are so efficient with their picks, but it's also possible because it's a mindset.



Now, there isn't any particular way these prospects have been traded. Some of these players were part of bigger deals to bring in veterans players. For example, the Bruins traded Shaone Morrisonn and two draft picks to Washington for Sergei Gonchar in 2004. They did something similar this season when they traded prospect Joe Colborne and a first-rounder to Toronto for Tomas Kaberle. But others trades were about converting a player back into draft picks, like the Phil Kessel trade which netted them three picks, including the No. 2 selection in 2010.



Where's the value?



While it's important to gain value from the draft, an NHL club can only have five skaters on the ice at one time. So at some point, that value has to be converted into the right pieces for a winning team.



How did the Bruins pull this off? It's all about flexibility.



Time and time again, they've converted draft picks and prospects into NHL players -- and back to draft picks again. Having a constant influx of potential trade pieces makes it easier to navigate the salary cap. These homegrown guys can serve as both cheap players for the roster, or as assets to sweeten the pot in all types of trades. In addition, this is a way of hedging your bets. The team doesn't have to rely on hitting it big with a few key prospects.



They have embraced the idea that they don't have to build their team from the players the select in the draft. Because, in the NHL draft, finding the NHL-caliber players -- much less the right NHL-caliber players -- is incredibly tough.

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06-10-2011, 10:48 AM
  #896
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Bruins vs. Blackhawks



There are two major differences between Boston and Chicago. First off, the Blackhawks have been among the worst at converting their draft picks into NHL players. Only 35 percent of their picks made it to the NHL; only 19 percent played 82 NHL games.



Meanwhile, the Bruins have been among the best in this category. They have drafted 180 players since 1990 and an astounding 79 of them made it to the NHL, with 45 of them playing at least 82 NHL games:




Draft Efficiency
These clubs were able to convert the highest percentage of draft picks into NHL players since 1990.

Team Pct. of picks with min. 82 GP Pct. of picks with min. 1 GP
San Jose Sharks 29.7% 50.3%
Boston Bruins 28.0% 49.1%
Colorado Avalanche 29.5% 48.9%
Ottawa Senators 26.2% 46.9%
New Jersey Devils 28.4% 46.4%


But the other major difference is what they did with those draft picks. Chicago built its championship team around them. Ten players were homegrown, which is incredible considering that they aren't great at drafting future NHLers. But what about Boston -- a team that converts 50 percent of picks into NHL players? How many homegrown players are on their roster?



Milan Lucic, Brad Marchand, David Krejci, Patrice Bergeron and Tyler Seguin. That's it.



Quality vs. Quantity

Now, before I go on, let's clear something up: Converting a high percentage of draft picks into NHL players isn't necessarily a good thing. It could mean the club is promoting prospects without much thought; it could mean the club is producing a lot of mediocre players, but not any stars; it could mean their NHL club isn't good enough to block up the pipelines. For example, the Detroit Red Wings have the lowest conversion rate: Only 31 percent of picks play in the NHL, and 20 percent of picks become NHL contributors. But we know the extent of their success. That's because the talent on their NHL club allows them to promote prospects judiciously.

But the Bruins? Not so much. On one hand, they've found a handful of draft steals, like Krejci, Lucic and Bergeron -- all second-rounders. But on the other hand, they have sacrificed quality in favor of quantity.


Overachievement of Draft Picks
We measured "quality" with Tom Awad's GVT metric. We're looking at all draft picks who have played at least 82 NHL games -- what we're calling "NHL contributors." The Bruins have been below average in not only getting good value from the draft, but also as far as raw performance.

Rank Team Avg. player performance Overperformance of draft slot
Top Detroit Red Wings 4.4 GVT/season 3.05 GVT/season
Average -- 3.72 1.91
No. 21 Boston Bruins 3.13 1.67
Bottom Columbus Blue Jackets 2.4 0


Even though Boston drafts a lot of future NHL players, they don't always get the best value relative to the draft slot. This indicates that they prefer safer picks -- players who are more likely to make the league, but have lower ceilings. Compound that with the fact that they only have five players from the draft on their roster, and it seems the Bruins have gained little value from their picks.



Where did the Bruins' value go?



However, Boston is in the Stanley Cup Finals, and they've made the playoffs 39 of the past 44 years, so the team has to be doing something right. What is it?



The key is looking what the Bruins did with their homegrown players -- particularly the ones who developed into NHL players. There are 17 of them since 2000 who have played 82 NHL games. Here's what happened to them:



Where did the Bruins' picks go?
Of the 17 Bruins' picks who are considered successes since 2000 (82 NHL games), the B's traded 11 of them.

Movement type Players
Trade (11) Phil Kessel, Vladimir Sobotka, Kris Versteeg, Matt Hunwick, Mark Stuart, Byron Bitz, Yan Stastny, Milan Jurcina, Shaone Morrisonn, Andrew Alberts, Andy Hilbert
Waivers (1) Nate Thompson
Other (1) Jarno Kultanen
Still with Bruins (4) Milan Lucic, David Krejci, Patrice Bergeron, Brad Marchand


Notice a pattern?



Boston gained a lot of value from the draft -- but it just insisted upon converting that value into other assets via trades. Often times, the team developed prospects to increase their value -- and then traded them away to fill needs. It's partly made possible because the Bruins are so efficient with their picks, but it's also possible because it's a mindset.



Now, there isn't any particular way these prospects have been traded. Some of these players were part of bigger deals to bring in veterans players. For example, the Bruins traded Shaone Morrisonn and two draft picks to Washington for Sergei Gonchar in 2004. They did something similar this season when they traded prospect Joe Colborne and a first-rounder to Toronto for Tomas Kaberle. But others trades were about converting a player back into draft picks, like the Phil Kessel trade which netted them three picks, including the No. 2 selection in 2010.



Where's the value?



While it's important to gain value from the draft, an NHL club can only have five skaters on the ice at one time. So at some point, that value has to be converted into the right pieces for a winning team.



How did the Bruins pull this off? It's all about flexibility.



Time and time again, they've converted draft picks and prospects into NHL players -- and back to draft picks again. Having a constant influx of potential trade pieces makes it easier to navigate the salary cap. These homegrown guys can serve as both cheap players for the roster, or as assets to sweeten the pot in all types of trades. In addition, this is a way of hedging your bets. The team doesn't have to rely on hitting it big with a few key prospects.



They have embraced the idea that they don't have to build their team from the players the select in the draft. Because, in the NHL draft, finding the NHL-caliber players -- much less the right NHL-caliber players -- is incredibly tough.
Chiarelli is very shrewd when it comes to trading, outside of the Kaberle trade.

He sends a 5th to Columbus for Adam McQuaid, how does Howson still have a job.

He sends Matt Hendricks(free agent signing) to Avs for Johnny Boychuk.

He sends Byron Bitz, Craig Weller (once our property) & a 2nd for Seidenberg.

That is how you build a team.

You add 3 main pieces to your puzzle without giving up much if anything at all.

3 mean, nasty dmen....and people want to trade McIlrath.


Last edited by Orr Nightmare: 06-10-2011 at 11:07 AM.
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06-10-2011, 10:57 AM
  #897
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Very interesting info.
That is one of the longest post I have ever seen these boards. You have far to much time on your hands RGF.

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06-10-2011, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by N9Y4R View Post
Very interesting info.
That us one of the longest post I have ever seen these boards. You have far to much time on your hands RGF.
Pretty sure he copied that from ESPN Insider.

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06-10-2011, 11:01 AM
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So realistically who is the highest upside forward that might be available at 15?

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06-10-2011, 11:03 AM
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Pretty sure he copied that from ESPN Insider.
Haha, that makes sense.

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