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Old
10-08-2003, 07:59 AM
  #26
triggrman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PornoHolocaust
Oh I agree with you, there is a big problem of marketing this league, but that really isn't the point of the article, on the contrary... "Generation to generation, there are always new stars that come to the game to excite fans" ; "There's never going to be a shortage of good players in this league" - that's far from analyzing a problem with the media-visibility and the appeal of the NHL players, it's only an excuse to put up a (very subjective and unjustified) list of players. That is, to me, futile.

As for the Tootoo argument, I disagree in part with Vlad. It took only a handful of games in the playoffs (I don't remember what year) for Steve Webb to get the fans going, ok he never got back that type of play afterwards (or maybe a game here and there, but I never saw anymore of it myself) but that is the type of game Tootoo could bring with more consistency and if he does, he'll be very popular with fans (and he is media-friendly). But on the other hand, Vlad's position reflects mine : would it be a good thing to hockey? Is flying 6 inches over the ice while charging your opponent what hockey's really about?... And then again, would Tootoo be able to maintain this energy level (I'm thinking of the WJC) against bigger guys than him?
you guys act like Tootoo leaves his feet on every check, and that's not right. He leveled many Blues players last week with good clean hits.

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Old
10-08-2003, 08:11 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
he's the type of player that, just by being on the ice, makes his teammates better. since he's been on the team...guys that have never laid a check in their life are hitting everything, in some kind of infectious hitting frenzy.
That's exactly the type of Steve Webb play I was referring to. I'm sorry if I sounded like "Tootoo is ONLY a checker", It isn't my opinion of him, but I do think it will be the energy/physical part of his game that will make him a popular figure and not his scoring.

edit (to answer the post that got just before) : I didn't mean either that he jumped on every check, but he does/did and it has been part of the reason why he's been that popular (the hits are spectacular). Anyway I don't think he'll be able to use that jump much often in the NHL without having to face (strong) retaliation.

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Old
10-08-2003, 02:25 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
Just because you're one of those fickle fan who has a hard on on the latest WJC doesn't mean I have to follow. Sorry, I have seen DOZENS, I mean dozens of GREAT performances at the WJC that have amounted to absolutely nothing in the NHL.
And you're leaping to massive conclusions. I never said Tootoo was going to be a superstar player because of the WJC.

I said he was going to be massively popular. Britney Spears is massively popular, that doesn't mean she's a great singer.

With his size, style of play, and the fact he is the first Inuit to play in the league, Tootoo is going to be popular. Sorry that frosts your ass so, but you better learn to accept it.

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Old
10-08-2003, 02:41 PM
  #29
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
even if he never puts up thornton numbers. you can't assume that the best players are only the ones that score goals.
Probably true, but there are a lot of players who have a pretty interesting mix of skills and intensity. What makes Tootoo a more suitable candidate than Ruutu? Phaneuf? Horton? (if we want to stick with unproven players)

What makes you think he deserves to be put on a list of 15 best NHL "attractions"? Do you think he can reach a Peca level? Grit, pretty good scoring, leadership reputation, individual hardwares and olympic gold medal? Do you see Peca as a top 15 shining star in the NHL?

I dunno, I love Mike Peca but he just doesn't seem to me to be a top 15 "face" in hockey. I don't see Tootoo surpassing Peca.

I think the memory of the WJC will fade away, just like it always does. Then Tootoo's fame will depend on his success in Nashville. Seeing as there are some pretty good players coming out (and some young faces already in the game) I don't think this guy has a chance of one day accomplishing enough to get that type of recognition.

A fan favorite in Nashville? Knock yourself out. A fan favorite in the NHL? I don't think that will happen. But hey, Don Cherry is a fan favorite, so anything is possible :p

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Old
10-08-2003, 02:49 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan
With his size, style of play, and the fact he is the first Inuit to play in the league, Tootoo is going to be popular. Sorry that frosts your ass so, but you better learn to accept it.
Zoom. That's the point of my post way passing way above your head.

I can't accept what I can't agree with. I don't agree he'll be top 15 in skills, I don't agree he'll be top 15 in popularity either.

I can accept that, particularly at first, he will be a story and a popular player. Massively popular? Well, I don't know exactly how you quantify that but I doubt that will be important enough to be a premier ticket seller.

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Old
10-08-2003, 04:48 PM
  #31
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Just goes to show how ESPN knows **** about hockey, there more worried about other sports like football and baseball...
Stupid yankee's

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Old
10-08-2003, 05:56 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
Zoom. That's the point of my post way passing way above your head.

I can't accept what I can't agree with. I don't agree he'll be top 15 in skills, I don't agree he'll be top 15 in popularity either.

I can accept that, particularly at first, he will be a story and a popular player. Massively popular? Well, I don't know exactly how you quantify that but I doubt that will be important enough to be a premier ticket seller.
For him to be popular, of course he has to do something really well on the ice. He has to give the media the desire to want to report on him pretty much each game. The media won't give a crap about his background for a season. He has to provide the goods on ice to do that. But that doesn't neccessarily mean scoring goals. Perhaps he will be a phenomenal agitator. If he is that and has a great personality for off the ice stuff, he could be a star. But you are correct the on ice work has to be good enough. If he is JUST a mid level third line grinder, no one will care.

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Old
10-08-2003, 06:02 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger
You have every right to rip the article, but I don't see the point in harping on U.S. hockey coverage. From what I've seen, the Canadian media isn't much better and is just as prone to odd biases and wacky prognostications.
From what I have seen so far, US hockey coverage is inferior in general to what can be found in Canada. This becomes even more obvious with Centre Ice, since I can now witness firsthand where some fans get their cliche. Hockey coverage is pretty good at certain specific places but usually it's pretty bad.

I'm sorry if that offends you but it's just how I'm perceiving it. Note that it doesn't mean I think Canadian coverage rocks. I just feel it is much better overall, with a better understanding of the game and what goes on on the ice, less clueless statements and usually a better understanding of the league and the game in general.

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Old
10-08-2003, 06:09 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian
For him to be popular, of course he has to do something really well on the ice. He has to give the media the desire to want to report on him pretty much each game. The media won't give a crap about his background for a season. He has to provide the goods on ice to do that. But that doesn't neccessarily mean scoring goals. Perhaps he will be a phenomenal agitator. If he is that and has a great personality for off the ice stuff, he could be a star. But you are correct the on ice work has to be good enough. If he is JUST a mid level third line grinder, no one will care.
That also raises another interesting point, IMO. What will happen if he does become a great agitator? I'm thinking he will be loved by some but hated by others.

I do hope he succeeds because I like his story too and he is a feisty little guy. I don't think he will become great enough to be one day one of the most recognized players but if he ever does, my hats off to him.

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Old
10-08-2003, 06:26 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
Probably true, but there are a lot of players who have a pretty interesting mix of skills and intensity. What makes Tootoo a more suitable candidate than Ruutu? Phaneuf? Horton? (if we want to stick with unproven players)

What makes you think he deserves to be put on a list of 15 best NHL "attractions"? Do you think he can reach a Peca level? Grit, pretty good scoring, leadership reputation, individual hardwares and olympic gold medal? Do you see Peca as a top 15 shining star in the NHL?

I dunno, I love Mike Peca but he just doesn't seem to me to be a top 15 "face" in hockey. I don't see Tootoo surpassing Peca.

I think the memory of the WJC will fade away, just like it always does. Then Tootoo's fame will depend on his success in Nashville. Seeing as there are some pretty good players coming out (and some young faces already in the game) I don't think this guy has a chance of one day accomplishing enough to get that type of recognition.

A fan favorite in Nashville? Knock yourself out. A fan favorite in the NHL? I don't think that will happen. But hey, Don Cherry is a fan favorite, so anything is possible :p

How many articles have people written nationally about Peca in the past year. Tootoo has had dozens written about him. Ruutu? Phaneuf? Horton? You don't seem to grasp that the best players aren't always the most notable. Sure, in alot of cases the Gretsky's of the world make the papers but sometimes it's not the best player. Sometimes it's the little guy who knocks out the big guy, sometimes it's the player who is following in a path that only he has seen. Sometimes it's the wonderful personality of a true warrior in hockey. Sometimes it's the person who carries around his brothers suicide note, who tosses his brothers short life on his shoulders for a ride. Who has an entire territory of people watching his every move. He is why people come to watch hockey. He is why hockey is such a great sport. He is going to be a popular player in this league. Maybe not to the hockey purist who wants beauty and grace but to the average fan who appreciates thundering open ice hits, monsterous slap shots and blazing speed, he will be an icon of sorts. Not gretzky but likely more than Ruutu or Phaneuf. Do talented players like Kovalev always get national publicity in terms of transcending the sport? No, but a player like Tootoo already has. Any time you get non-hockey fans talking about you in a positive light, you've done something right. Kovalev's of the world don't have that. Tootoo has it in Nashville and before long, I wouldn't be suprised if the rest of the nation feels this way as well. He has the personality, the presence, the spirit to become something more than a hockey player. None of the players you've mentioned even come close to this.

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Old
10-08-2003, 07:41 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
From what I have seen so far, US hockey coverage is inferior in general to what can be found in Canada. This becomes even more obvious with Centre Ice, since I can now witness firsthand where some fans get their cliche. Hockey coverage is pretty good at certain specific places but usually it's pretty bad.

I'm sorry if that offends you but it's just how I'm perceiving it. Note that it doesn't mean I think Canadian coverage rocks. I just feel it is much better overall, with a better understanding of the game and what goes on on the ice, less clueless statements and usually a better understanding of the league and the game in general.

No offense taken. I realize hockey coverage is better overall in Canada (by a considerable margin). I just like to put things in perspective. Afterall, it is ESPN we're talking about. They have virtually every sport in their back pocket, and the quality suffers from time to time.

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Old
10-08-2003, 08:12 PM
  #37
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Vlad NMK never said Tootoo should be in the top 15, he was just pointing out where there will most likely be an appeal and the aspects of his game that he has seen from preseason. Take into consideration that this is ESPN making this list, and you should be able to relax quite quickly. As soon as I saw Zach Pairse on the list, I started laughing. I mean, come on, the player drafted 17th this year is in the top 15 players for the future of hockey..????

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Old
10-08-2003, 08:19 PM
  #38
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Holy... cool out, gang...

Did I miss something? I don't think this list claimed to be a ranking... nor all-inclusive. "Here's a list of some who might be, some who could be and some who should be ..."


It's a fact that some players' popularity far exceeds their ability to do anything good on the ice- Georges Laraque being a prime example. Others who might be very good hockey players will never get the popularity they deserve. Vancouver fans will never understand why the rest of the league finds Brendan Morrison as interesting as dry white toast.

Tootoo? Sure- it's a story that works on so many levels. The Rankin Inlet angle... the family tragedy... the little guy who thinks he's a heavyweight... everybody loves an underdog. And short of making a total ass of himself ala Theo Fleury, Tootoo is going to be a guy that everybody will be pulling for. And, even if he was just some white guy from Oshawa, his reckless physical game would probably make hima fan favorite.

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Old
10-08-2003, 11:21 PM
  #39
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause
How many articles have people written nationally about Peca in the past year. Tootoo has had dozens written about him. Ruutu? Phaneuf? Horton? You don't seem to grasp that the best players aren't always the most notable. Sure, in alot of cases the Gretsky's of the world make the papers but sometimes it's not the best player. Sometimes it's the little guy who knocks out the big guy, sometimes it's the player who is following in a path that only he has seen. Sometimes it's the wonderful personality of a true warrior in hockey. Sometimes it's the person who carries around his brothers suicide note, who tosses his brothers short life on his shoulders for a ride. Who has an entire territory of people watching his every move. He is why people come to watch hockey. He is why hockey is such a great sport. He is going to be a popular player in this league. Maybe not to the hockey purist who wants beauty and grace but to the average fan who appreciates thundering open ice hits, monsterous slap shots and blazing speed, he will be an icon of sorts. Not gretzky but likely more than Ruutu or Phaneuf. Do talented players like Kovalev always get national publicity in terms of transcending the sport? No, but a player like Tootoo already has. Any time you get non-hockey fans talking about you in a positive light, you've done something right. Kovalev's of the world don't have that. Tootoo has it in Nashville and before long, I wouldn't be suprised if the rest of the nation feels this way as well. He has the personality, the presence, the spirit to become something more than a hockey player. None of the players you've mentioned even come close to this.
Holy. Crap.

Not only is Tuomo Ruutu having just as much spirit, intensity and presence on the ice, he's actually a far better player to boot.

Time will tell if I am right or wrong. I'm sure in Nashville, he'll be top 15. Good for you.

But I think there are a good number of players with problems, many you won't hear much about for an extended period of time. In the end, your story is (in good part) only so great as your on-ice performances. I simply don't think his abilities will translate well enough to the NHL to warrant attention much longer. Now that Dan Snyder is dead, like many, Iam discovering how dedicated he really was.

And every once in a while, I'll discuss hockey with someone and they'll bring up how Walt Gretzky is amazing, and how little Gretz would play on a pond, etc. Guess what. There are hundreds of hockey parents, some ARE as dedicated to the career of their son as Walt Gretzky I am sure. The problem is... their sons are not Wayne Gretzky. Heck, I'm sure you yourself know someone who is just amazing. I do too. I'm sure a lot of posters have some great stories. Maybe some have been through a lot of adversity. Their story has little significance to a hockey fan because what makes a story amazing (to a hockey fan, of course) is the fact you face adversity/have such a wonderful story and on top of that, you succeed at hockey.

As hockey fans, that's what is going to grab you and that's when journalists are going to feel compelled to keep on writing about you. Especially nationwide or worldwide.

I actually agree with you that it's not just about pure skills. But you gotta play a big part, especially to get nationwide recognition for a good number of years.

I guess we'd have to discuss who are the current top 15/20 faces in the NHL right now, but just like future predictions, this will probably end up like a big debate that amounts to personnal preferences, which we all have.

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Old
10-08-2003, 11:50 PM
  #40
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I think it's worth asking "before Tootoo when was the last time a low 4th rounder got an entire article in SI prior to setting foot on NHL ice?"

Based on his spirit, physical game, and most importantly the road he took en route to the NHL, barring a total bomb out at the NHL level, I think he'll wind up being a huge fan favorite for a decent NHL career.

An "ambassador" for the game? I dunno about that ... honestly I doubt he'll have enough star power to pull that gig in, but hey, we'll see...

Take Dan Hinote for example ... he's massively popular among Avs fans, and he even has a decent fanbase outside the organization's faithful. And lastly, you still have people saying everyday that he's fun to watch.

At the very least I think that Tootoo should achieve this, if his offensive numbers are better than Hinote's, then his popularity should follow suit.

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Old
10-09-2003, 05:42 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
Holy. Crap.

Not only is Tuomo Ruutu having just as much spirit, intensity and presence on the ice, he's actually a far better player to boot.
We'll just agree to disagree here. If Ruutu had Tootoo's spirit and intensity, then there would be no doubt as to who the best prospect in the world was. Imagine Ruutu's size and skill combined with Tootoo's tenacity and drive? He would be THE premier prospect in the NHL, not just a great prospect. Having seen both play atleast 1 game at the NHL level (I'll comment more as I get to see Tootoo's first regular season game tonight), I just don't see that level from Ruutu. Of course, I don't see that level from any else I've seen in the hundreds of games I've watched live.

Vlad, how many games of Ruutu's have you seen? At the NHL level? How many games of Tootoo's have you seen? At the NHL level? Because they have played so few NHL games, and because I'm almost confident you have seen neither player either at the NHL level, I'll go ahead and say this, Tootoo dominated the game against St. Louis. It was preseason but it wasn't even close. He didn't dominate offensively, he dominated physically. Against the likes of Pronger of all people. I didn't see that from Ruutu against Minnesota. That alone should tell you something about spirit and intensity. Everyone knows (on both teams and all the fans) when Tootoo is on the ice. Even if it's the first professional shift he ever takes, people notice. Ruutu has nowhere near this presence.

I think you are letting your dislike of Tootoo cloud your judgement here. Ruutu is a better prospect than Tootoo. He will, in all likelihood, become a better player. But you fail to equate better talent with better story. And in the end, the story transcends the sport. Not the talent.

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Old
10-09-2003, 10:58 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause
Vlad, how many games of Ruutu's have you seen? At the NHL level? How many games of Tootoo's have you seen? At the NHL level? Because they have played so few NHL games, and because I'm almost confident you have seen neither player either at the NHL level, I'll go ahead and say this, Tootoo dominated the game against St. Louis. It was preseason but it wasn't even close. He didn't dominate offensively, he dominated physically. Against the likes of Pronger of all people. I didn't see that from Ruutu against Minnesota. That alone should tell you something about spirit and intensity. Everyone knows (on both teams and all the fans) when Tootoo is on the ice. Even if it's the first professional shift he ever takes, people notice. Ruutu has nowhere near this presence.
Ruutu (which I have seen for the first time in the NHL last night in his first game but I was more interested in Stars/Ducks so I was flipping between the two) is an overrated (by some) talent, but he is a hell of a presence. That's in fact his MO.

He's been doing it for years against men in Finland. He's all about tenacity and drive from everything I have seen and read of him. I unfortunately only got to see him at the WJCs (including the time he sent Tootoo on his ass) aprt from that game but every report I have ever read tends to tell me he is just as intense when I don't watch him play.

It's not about disliking Tootoo. It's about looking at two players and believing one's career will far exceed the other's.

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Old
10-09-2003, 11:01 AM
  #43
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BTW, I have of course not seen Tootoo play at the NHL level. Nobody has.

Haven't seen him in pre-season either.

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10-09-2003, 11:02 AM
  #44
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Just don't ask Ruutu to jump come onto the ice by jumping over the bench door when it's open.

Tootoo's popularity on these boards will wane as soon as he turns 23 and is no longer a youngsta.

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10-09-2003, 10:40 PM
  #45
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Funny, Vlad, you are the very essence why Tootoo will be one of the most popular players in the NHL. People like you will continue to talk about him, for good or for bad.

No other NHL player has generated more USA national attention than Tootoo this offseason, with full length articles in ESPN the Magazine, USA Today, and Sports Illustrated. When usually, there wouldn't be a hint of hockey coverage in these magazines during the summer, there is Tootoo. And his story isn't the doom-and-gloom type(see Synder incident), which is usually the only way a hockey related story would make into this kind of magazine this time of year. Even yesterday, the opening day of NHL hockey, USA Today's longest hockey story was about Tootoo.

After every Nashville preseason game this season, guess what the opposing team was talking about? How much of a sh!!-head Tootoo is. Media publications the next morning in the opposing newspaper are about Tootoo.

Currently, Tootoo is a front-page story on just about every hockey website out there.

He has generated more national media attention that most #1 overall picks do.

That's why Tootoo will be one of the 15 future faces of hockey. He will be noticed, and he will be talked about. Many people won't like him, but they will continue to talk about him.

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10-09-2003, 10:44 PM
  #46
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Barett Jackman merits consideration for this list, he is an Old School player that the game needs more of.

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10-10-2003, 12:03 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok
Funny, Vlad, you are the very essence why Tootoo will be one of the most popular players in the NHL. People like you will continue to talk about him, for good or for bad.

No other NHL player has generated more USA national attention than Tootoo this offseason, with full length articles in ESPN the Magazine, USA Today, and Sports Illustrated. When usually, there wouldn't be a hint of hockey coverage in these magazines during the summer, there is Tootoo. And his story isn't the doom-and-gloom type(see Synder incident), which is usually the only way a hockey related story would make into this kind of magazine this time of year. Even yesterday, the opening day of NHL hockey, USA Today's longest hockey story was about Tootoo.

After every Nashville preseason game this season, guess what the opposing team was talking about? How much of a sh!!-head Tootoo is. Media publications the next morning in the opposing newspaper are about Tootoo.

Currently, Tootoo is a front-page story on just about every hockey website out there.

He has generated more national media attention that most #1 overall picks do.

That's why Tootoo will be one of the 15 future faces of hockey. He will be noticed, and he will be talked about. Many people won't like him, but they will continue to talk about him.
Except this is all flash-in-the-pan coverage. Once the novelty of an Inuit hockey player has worn off, no one is going to care about a Darcy Tucker clone playing in Nashville. Tootoo's press has already decreased since the Snyder/Heatley incident, showing that he's more of a special interest story than a real hockey story.

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10-10-2003, 12:29 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
Tootoo's press has already decreased since the Snyder/Heatley incident, showing that he's more of a special interest story than a real hockey story.
Ahem, every kind of press has stopped since the Snyder/Heatley incident.

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10-10-2003, 03:59 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
Except this is all flash-in-the-pan coverage. Once the novelty of an Inuit hockey player has worn off, no one is going to care about a Darcy Tucker clone playing in Nashville. Tootoo's press has already decreased since the Snyder/Heatley incident, showing that he's more of a special interest story than a real hockey story.
Take away the first Inuit stuff, Tootoo still gets all the attention. At the WJC, he played on the third line and had a whopping one goal in the tournament. But who got the most media attention throughout the tournament? Tootoo. Who was talked about the most by fans? Tootoo. What were the chants coming from the crowd? Tootoo chants. It doesn’t take points to get attention.

In Tootoo’s first WHL season, he scored a whopping 6 goals. He was a nobody statistically, yet he was voted the most popular player in Brandon. He went on to win the most popular player all four of his years in Brandon. The last 2 years in the WHL, Tootoo has been the most talked about player in the league. Most teams hate him, but he continues to be talked about. When teams faced Brandon, the bulk of the talk would be about the little kamikaze Jordin Tootoo.

Tootoo has a way of drawing attention to himself that is not currently replicated by anyone in the NHL. IMO, he is going to get attention, and he is going to be one of the most recognizable faces of the NHL. There will always be all-starts to score goals, but Jordin's "aura" is something the NHL hasn't seen.

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10-17-2003, 10:18 AM
  #50
biscuithead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
Probably true, but there are a lot of players who have a pretty interesting mix of skills and intensity. What makes Tootoo a more suitable candidate than Ruutu? Phaneuf? Horton? (if we want to stick with unproven players)

I dunno, I love Mike Peca but he just doesn't seem to me to be a top 15 "face" in hockey. I don't see Tootoo surpassing Peca.

I think the memory of the WJC will fade away, just like it always does. Then Tootoo's fame will depend on his success in Nashville. Seeing as there are some pretty good players coming out (and some young faces already in the game) I don't think this guy has a chance of one day accomplishing enough to get that type of recognition.

A fan favorite in Nashville? Knock yourself out. A fan favorite in the NHL? I don't think that will happen. But hey, Don Cherry is a fan favorite, so anything is possible :p
Tootoo's been the subject of feature stories in USA Today, Sports Illustrated, Esquire and on and on. Has Ruutuu? Phaneuf? Horton? Even Peca?

The general public is being exposed to this guy, not just hockey geeks. He's got a unique story not just an interesting mix of skills and intensity. His heritage, brother's tragedy and heart make him a story beyond just hockey. That's what will make him a face of Hockey in the future.

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