Why are we clearing cap space? They're making moves one way or the other. There are what ifs for every scenario man. We're swapping salaries in trades. Spezza over Duby is a win for me. We can pick up another 50p wing via UFA, why is this so difficult?
Maybe a 50 point UFA will be available, but will you be able to find a guy who has the ability to put up 60 points, and is a very good hitter/forechecker, as well as a very good puck cycler? Will that UFA be able to be used in all situations, be good on faceoffs, be a decent middleweight fighter, and be someone with leadership qualities who stands up for his teammates frequently?
Show me the UFA with all those qualities and then maybe trading Dubinsky becomes easier.
this coming from someone with MZA as an avatar? I'm out of touch with reality? Keep chasing pipe dreams with the Norwegian midget making our top six.
1) My avatar is Dubinsky celebrating a goal over Brodeur.
2) My username is Zuccarello Awesome because I'm a big fan of his. I'm sorry that I could not be cooler and like someone like Spezza who has won multiple Stanley Cups and hart trophies. He's basically Wayne Gretzky.
Not every shift of a hockey game results in a goal. I'd rather have Dubinsky for 22 minutes a night than Spezza for 22 minutes. Spezza may put up more points (at this point that's not even a given) but I would bet that he's also on the ice for a lot more goals against as Dubinsky's all-around game is lightyears ahead of Spezza's. Spezza is a one-dimensional powerplay passer. Would he help our team? Of course. Is it worth trading the heart and soul of our team for a sexier name who can make prettier plays but not necessarily put us any closer to winning anything of value? Absolutely not. 95% of posters here (and we have some DOOZIES) know this. Dubinsky is more valuable to this team because of how he plays every shift. He is relentless. Him and Cally, although not nearly as gifted or naturally skilled as Jason Spezza contribute more positivity in terms of winning hockey games. And I have my doubts that Spezza will even outscore Dubinsky or Callahan next season. "Heart" and "will" are way more valued to a coaching staff and a GM than you seem to think.
Nice attempt at baselessly attacking me for a completely unrelated and irrelevant topic as my "avatar" / username. You have no basis for argument here. Quit while you're behind, before more posters bury you and your brainless rants.
Gaborik scored 22 goals in less games than Heatley. And, no, I wouldn't trade Dubinsky for Gaborik on the other side of the spectrum.
What doas Cogliano have to do with anything? Are you honestly comparing Dubinsky and Cogliano?
i'm trying to follow your reasoning of using one of a Heatley's seasons as a benchmark to compare him to Dubinsky. You honestly feel Dubinsky is on the same level of Heatley? Whether you wan't him or not is not the issue.
Maybe a 50 point UFA will be available, but will you be able to find a guy who has the ability to put up 60 points, and is a very good hitter/forechecker, as well as a very good puck cycler? Will that UFA be able to be used in all situations, be good on faceoffs, be a decent middleweight fighter, and be someone with leadership qualities who stands up for his teammates frequently?
Show me the UFA with all those qualities and then maybe trading Dubinsky becomes easier.
Let's trade this bum...he is overrated maybe we can get Valterir Filpulla, I bet there are guys who would actually do that
1) My avatar is Dubinsky celebrating a goal over Brodeur.
2) My username is Zuccarello Awesome because I'm a big fan of his. I'm sorry that I could not be cooler and like someone like Spezza who has won multiple Stanley Cups and hart trophies. He's basically Wayne Gretzky.
Not every shift of a hockey game results in a goal. I'd rather have Dubinsky for 22 minutes a night than Spezza for 22 minutes. Spezza may put up more points (at this point that's not even a given) but I would bet that he's also on the ice for a lot more goals against as Dubinsky's all-around game is lightyears ahead of Spezza's. Spezza is a one-dimensional powerplay passer. Would he help our team? Of course. Is it worth trading the heart and soul of our team for a sexier name who can make prettier plays but not necessarily put us any closer to winning anything of value? Absolutely not. 95% of posters here (and we have some DOOZIES) know this. Dubinsky is more valuable to this team because of how he plays every shift. He is relentless. Him and Cally, although not nearly as gifted or naturally skilled as Jason Spezza contribute more positivity in terms of winning hockey games. And I have my doubts that Spezza will even outscore Dubinsky or Callahan next season. "Heart" and "will" are way more valued to a coaching staff and a GM than you seem to think.
Nice attempt at baselessly attacking me for a completely unrelated and irrelevant topic as my "avatar" / username. You have no basis for argument here. Quit while you're behind, before more posters bury you and your brainless rants.
You’re a big fan of Zuccarello based upon what? Certainly not his NHL performance so far?
The skills competition? You sure you’re in reality here?
I’ve watched enough games to see what Dubinsky can and can’t do. I would move him for top line talent for which we have hardly any.
The majority of your posting is soley subjective. “he’s got heart” rah rah rah, crap. All this for the first year he breaks
50p? He’s going to want 4-5m for basically breaking 50p once?
i'm trying to follow your reasoning of using one of a Heatley's seasons as a benchmark to compare him to Dubinsky. You honestly feel Dubinsky is on the same level of Heatley? Whether you wan't him or not is not the issue.
Talent wise, he's obviously not on the level of Heatley, but talent isn't the only aspect of a player's game. Heatley has been declining since his last season in Ottawa, and has almost completely lost any of the minimal footspeed he had, making him near useless unless he's getting babied passes. He cannot create his own offense with any consistency anymore--the Rangers need players creating offense, and there is no one that will make Heatley any better than he was the past year on this current team. Dubinsky, comparing their seasons last year, was a beter player than Heatley was.
You’re a big fan of Zuccarello based upon what? Certainly not his NHL performance so far?
The skills competition? You sure you’re in reality here?
I’ve watched enough games to see what Dubinsky can and can’t do. I would move him for top line talent for which we have hardly any.
The majority of your posting is soley subjective. “he’s got heart” rah rah rah, crap. All this for the first year he breaks
50p? He’s going to want 4-5m for basically breaking 50p once?
Did Zuccarello play highschool soccer until this past year when he tried his luck in the NHL? I've been a fan of his for 2-3 years following him in Norway and Sweden. Oh no. He didn't light up the NHL in his rookie season and his first season on a smaller ice-surface with different rules. I guess you would've been angry at anyone who was an Anisimov fan after his rookie season too? I can't be a fan of our 5th best rated prospect? I guess nobody can be a fan of Dylan McIlrath either? Grachev? Valentenko? Erixon? Bourque? Fasth? Hagelin?
Grow up. Did someone forget to give you your meds today? I don't know why you're so bitter that you are ignoring the actual topic of discussion to take shots at individual posters for the most baseless and asinine reasons.
Where did I say anything about Dubinsky deserving upwards of 5 million per season? Answer: Nowhere. The fact that he's asking for 4.5 is part of the negotiation process. I'd be very surprised if he gets the number he first asked for. He'll likely get a similar contract to Staal / Girardi, as will Callahan.
You are about 8-10 years late. Your line of thinking would be welcome with the Rangers culture of a decade ago when we moved out youth with any value to bring in older, overpaid veterans because they were sexier. It truly embarrasses me that we're fans of the same team.
Why are we clearing cap space? They're making moves one way or the other. There are what ifs for every scenario man. We're swapping salaries in trades. Spezza over Duby is a win for me. We can pick up another 50p wing via UFA, why is this so difficult?
Who is this other 50 point wing we're signing? And it's not like we could trade Dubi for Spezza straight up. So who else would we have to replace? How much would that cost?
You can't make these deals in a vacuum. There's a salary cap. Just because one player scores more than another doesn't mean that player is more valuable than the other.
Did Zuccarello play highschool soccer until this past year when he tried his luck in the NHL? I've been a fan of his for 2-3 years following him in Norway and Sweden. Oh no. He didn't light up the NHL in his rookie season and his first season on a smaller ice-surface with different rules. I guess you would've been angry at anyone who was an Anisimov fan after his rookie season too? I can't be a fan of our 5th best rated prospect? I guess nobody can be a fan of Dylan McIlrath either? Grachev? Valentenko? Erixon? Bourque? Fasth? Hagelin?
Grow up. Did someone forget to give you your meds today? I don't know why you're so bitter that you are ignoring the actual topic of discussion to take shots at individual posters for the most baseless and asinine reasons.
Where did I say anything about Dubinsky deserving upwards of 5 million per season? Answer: Nowhere. The fact that he's asking for 4.5 is part of the negotiation process. I'd be very surprised if he gets the number he first asked for. He'll likely get a similar contract to Staal / Girardi, as will Callahan.
You are about 8-10 years late. Your line of thinking would be welcome with the Rangers culture of a decade ago when we moved out youth with any value to bring in older, overpaid veterans because they were sexier. It truly embarrasses me that we're fans of the same team.
I don’t care if you like my trade proposals, I’m simply trying to come up with plan B ideas to bring
In top 3 talent in case Richards doesn’t work out. You’ve got to give to get. But Instead of addressing what I actually wrote,
You made it personal with me by writing:
#970
“Just... wow. I wish you were being sarcastic. Most of this is just unbelievably out of touch with reality. “
How is that dealing with the issue? You come off like an @ss with me and I’m supposed to respect you?
Making a deal to bring in a 27yr old Spezza who is a ppg player and a true 1st line center makes me a product Of the ranger fanbase from a decade ago? If I were you I would be embarrassed for a lot more than us being fans of the same
Hockey team.
Who is this other 50 point wing we're signing? And it's not like we could trade Dubi for Spezza straight up. So who else would we have to replace? How much would that cost?
You can't make these deals in a vacuum. There's a salary cap. Just because one player scores more than another doesn't mean that player is more valuable than the other.
^ Of course. Not to mention, if what NikC says is true about heart not being worth a damn thing, why on earth would Ottawa give up Spezza for Dubinsky?
Who is this other 50 point wing we're signing? And it's not like we could trade Dubi for Spezza straight up. So who else would we have to replace? How much would that cost?
You can't make these deals in a vacuum. There's a salary cap. Just because one player scores more than another doesn't mean that player is more valuable than the other.
Thank you. Heatley had 8 more points that Dubinsky--so what? The only thing he can do better than Dubinsky is shoot the puck--and he can't even create opportunities to do that himself. Points aren't the only aspect of offense.
I don’t care if you like my trade proposals, I’m simply trying to come up with plan B ideas to bring
In top 3 talent in case Richards doesn’t work out. You’ve got to give to get. But Instead of addressing what I actually wrote,
You made it personal with me by writing:
#970
“Just... wow. I wish you were being sarcastic. Most of this is just unbelievably out of touch with reality. “
How is that dealing with the issue? You come off like an @ss with me and I’m supposed to respect you?
Making a deal to bring in a 27yr old Spezza who is a ppg player and a true 1st line center makes me a product Of the ranger fanbase from a decade ago? If I were you I would be embarrassed for a lot more than us being fans of the same
Hockey team.
Because your initial post was just.... SO FAR OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY. How is that getting personal???? I didn't attack you for being a fan of Spezza. I like Spezza too and I'd love to get him, but we've finally had a few years of progressing in the right direction building a strong young core and now that we're finally close (1-2 pieces away from being a contender) you want to trade one of our most valuable forwards to bring in a guy who has zero loyalty to NY or the Rangers organization. ie: Another hired gun (reminiscent of the dark ages of the late 90's, early 2000's).
Dubinsky bleeds Rangers blue. You can tell he wants to win here. He was arguably our best all-around player outside of Lundqvist this past season. Just because it's only "one" season, doesn't mean you can't be happy with it and be excited to watch him continue to progress as a player. The vast majority of NHL players don't just STOP progressing at age 25. There is plenty of room for Dubinsky to continue to get better in all areas of the game. In all likelihood, he's only going to get physically stronger over the next 5 years. He has 5 years til he's 30. Plenty of players have their BEST seasons at age 30. Why are you discounting all of this just to bring in a guy who put up big numbers a few years ago playing with Heatley and Alfredsson? He's still good for almost a PPG, but at what cost, defensively? He doesn't play in the areas Dubinsky plays. He doesn't kill penalties the way Dubi does. He doesn't stick up for his teammates the way Dubi does. He doesn't crash the net the way Dubi does. And the last two years, he's missed 40 games. We all watched as Drury's body broke down earlier than expected. As much as I'd love to see Spezza running our powerplay and dishing to players like Kreider, Thomas, and Grachev in the future, I see Spezza as a big potential risk. A risk that I'm not willing to part with one of our most valuable core players for. I'd sooner part with Anisimov, Girardi, 15th overall, and a mid-level prospect, which honestly should be enough to get it done anyway. If it's not, oh well.
I understand that you're trying to come up with Plan B since this year's UFA market is so thin on top-line talent, but it'd be better to fight for the 8th seed this year with what we've got (if we miss out on Richards) than to start dismantling the team and trading off one of the grittiest young top 6 forwards this team has had since Adam Graves. As much as I've been an advocate of "the time is now" to make a big move and go for a deep playoff run while Lundqvist is still in his prime, I'd rather take a step back and wait for the right deal than to make a move out of fear and give up irreplaceable core players to get a player who isn't our first choice and has had question marks about his work ethic and recent injury history.
I apologize if you thought my initial response was rude. I was honestly just shocked that someone would be so eager to trade Dubinsky based seemingly solely on his point totals, and discounting everything else he brings to the table. This isn't a Drury-intangibles argument. You can see and discuss everything that Dubinsky brings on a nightly basis. And I still vehemently disagree with your perspective on the value of heart and will in a hockey player.
I have posted plenty of proposals that weren't well-received, such as Girardi, Anisimov, Thomas, and a 1st for Lecavalier. I recognize that we're all trying to get creative and we all do want to see the Rangers in a cup in the next few years, so I apologize if I got out of line. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions and there's no way to prove that one deal is more likely or unlikely than any other. The NHL has seen some crazy, unexpected deals that leave many scratching their heads. And usually the biggest deals are the ones that nobody saw coming or proposed on HF.
Thank you. Heatley had 8 more points that Dubinsky--so what? The only thing he can do better than Dubinsky is shoot the puck--and he can't even create opportunities to do that himself. Points aren't the only aspect of offense.
THANK YOU
Because Dubinsky creates dozens of scoring chances "by himself"
5 goals in his last 25g the season. 11g streak without scoring. He breaks 50p for the first time in his career and he's coming into conversation with Dany Heatley. But he has other "aspects" of his game that make him more valuable.
Because Dubinsky creates dozens of scoring chances "by himself"
5 goals in his last 25g the season. 11g streak without scoring. He breaks 50p for the first time in his career and he's coming into conversation with Dany Heatley. But he has other "aspects" of his game that make him more valuable.
stick to your specialty; evaluating draft picks and projecting fictitious stats for players that haven't played in the nhl yet
you mean the 25 games he was playing with a broken leg?
Because Dubinsky creates dozens of scoring chances "by himself"
5 goals in his last 25g the season. 11g streak without scoring. He breaks 50p for the first time in his career and he's coming into conversation with Dany Heatley. But he has other "aspects" of his game that make him more valuable.
stick to your specialty; evaluating draft picks and projecting fictitious stats for players that haven't played in the nhl yet
Dany Heatley is not the player you are making him out to be. Not by a longshot. He is a one-dimensional goal scorer with awful footspeed. Yes, he's good at that one dimension, but Dubinsky, last year, was better than Heatley was, last year. I expect continued decline from Heatley in the coming seasons, as his damaged knees become even more deteriorated. You do know that Heatley sustained significant damage to his knees after his car crash that killed Dan Snyder, right? You cannot expect him to improve on his skating in the coming years -- it will only deteriorate further with age.
Because Dubinsky creates dozens of scoring chances "by himself"
5 goals in his last 25g the season. 11g streak without scoring. He breaks 50p for the first time in his career and he's coming into conversation with Dany Heatley. But he has other "aspects" of his game that make him more valuable.
stick to your specialty; evaluating draft picks and projecting fictitious stats for players that haven't played in the nhl yet
The fact that his cap hit was 1.85 mil last year and Heatley's was 7 mil makes Dubi more valuable. Would you rather have 5 Dubinskys or 1 Heatley and 4 minimum wage scrubs?
Dubi will get around 4 mil per year, so the value will be closer, but I'd still take Dubi for all the other things he does.
Because Dubinsky creates dozens of scoring chances "by himself"
5 goals in his last 25g the season. 11g streak without scoring. He breaks 50p for the first time in his career and he's coming into conversation with Dany Heatley. But he has other "aspects" of his game that make him more valuable.
For a second there, I thought you were talking about Gaborik.
Because your initial post was just.... SO FAR OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY. How is that getting personal???? I didn't attack you for being a fan of Spezza. I like Spezza too and I'd love to get him, but we've finally had a few years of progressing in the right direction building a strong young core and now that we're finally close (1-2 pieces away from being a contender) you want to trade one of our most valuable forwards to bring in a guy who has zero loyalty to NY or the Rangers organization. ie: Another hired gun (reminiscent of the dark ages of the late 90's, early 2000's).
Dubinsky bleeds Rangers blue. You can tell he wants to win here. He was arguably our best all-around player outside of Lundqvist this past season. Just because it's only "one" season, doesn't mean you can't be happy with it and be excited to watch him continue to progress as a player. The vast majority of NHL players don't just STOP progressing at age 25. There is plenty of room for Dubinsky to continue to get better in all areas of the game. In all likelihood, he's only going to get physically stronger over the next 5 years. He has 5 years til he's 30. Plenty of players have their BEST seasons at age 30. Why are you discounting all of this just to bring in a guy who put up big numbers a few years ago playing with Heatley and Alfredsson? He's still good for almost a PPG, but at what cost, defensively? He doesn't play in the areas Dubinsky plays. He doesn't kill penalties the way Dubi does. He doesn't stick up for his teammates the way Dubi does. He doesn't crash the net the way Dubi does. And the last two years, he's missed 40 games. We all watched as Drury's body broke down earlier than expected. As much as I'd love to see Spezza running our powerplay and dishing to players like Kreider, Thomas, and Grachev in the future, I see Spezza as a big potential risk. A risk that I'm not willing to part with one of our most valuable core players for. I'd sooner part with Anisimov, Girardi, 15th overall, and a mid-level prospect, which honestly should be enough to get it done anyway. If it's not, oh well.
I understand that you're trying to come up with Plan B since this year's UFA market is so thin on top-line talent, but it'd be better to fight for the 8th seed this year with what we've got (if we miss out on Richards) than to start dismantling the team and trading off one of the grittiest young top 6 forwards this team has had since Adam Graves. As much as I've been an advocate of "the time is now" to make a big move and go for a deep playoff run while Lundqvist is still in his prime, I'd rather take a step back and wait for the right deal than to make a move out of fear and give up irreplaceable core players to get a player who isn't our first choice and has had question marks about his work ethic and recent injury history.
I apologize if you thought my initial response was rude. I was honestly just shocked that someone would be so eager to trade Dubinsky based seemingly solely on his point totals, and discounting everything else he brings to the table. This isn't a Drury-intangibles argument. You can see and discuss everything that Dubinsky brings on a nightly basis. And I still vehemently disagree with your perspective on the value of heart and will in a hockey player.
I have posted plenty of proposals that weren't well-received, such as Girardi, Anisimov, Thomas, and a 1st for Lecavalier. I recognize that we're all trying to get creative and we all do want to see the Rangers in a cup in the next few years, so I apologize if I got out of line. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions and there's no way to prove that one deal is more likely or unlikely than any other. The NHL has seen some crazy, unexpected deals that leave many scratching their heads. And usually the biggest deals are the ones that nobody saw coming or proposed on HF.
Apology accepted. I’m sorry if I came off jerky as well, espcially with the MZA comments,
Although honestly I see him little more than a novelty at this point. The kid is going to have
To be a friggin freak in order to justify him being in the lineup. He’s way too small imo.
I don’t mean to come off like I don’t like or appreciate what Dubinsky brings. I do,
But I realize you have to give to get. Spezza is a top line talent. A package surrounding
Dubinsky to get him is a compliment to Dubinsky.
I see Dubinsky as overrated by many. Dubinsky is far too inconsistent offensively. (5g in has last 25g/ 11g w/o scoring a goal).
His offensive instincts and shooting ability don’t impress. I’m not sure how much he “bleeds blue”.
Especially after holding out into training camp last year. He’s R.J. Umberger at best. He hasn’t even hit R.J’s #’s yet.
My first priority is BR. But if that doesn’t happen, Sather is going to do something. We need to put the best team
In front of Lundqvist now. We can’t afford to “blow off” another season just making the 8th seed imo. If we lose out on Richards, Sather is going to have to swing a deal, and we’re going to have to give to get.
Dany Heatley is one year removed from the Canadian Olympic team and 80+ points. This guy has always known how to score goals and this was an off season for him because he played injured for some games.
I would not trade Dubinsky for him, but I believe some of you are selling him short. Just my opinion.
