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2011 NHL Entry Draft/Other Prospects (All NON-RANGERS Prospect Discussion - Part 3) ‎

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Old
06-10-2011, 03:11 PM
  #926
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Originally Posted by Latexi84 View Post
Dallas (picking at 14) interviewed Armia for 3 hours instead of the casual 20 minutes.
With my luck the Finnish player is picked one spot before our turn again.



For comparable i'd say hmmmm.... Semin?
Picking at 15 seems like one of the most "problematic" spots in this draft, i don't think there will be any prospects with big upside available. BTW i really want offence.. i'll punch my mom if we pick a defender.
Wow, yea I would assume Stars will definitely be taking him, maybe even trade up to make sure they get him.

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06-10-2011, 03:47 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Grabner is an exception not the rule right? Where as, you just pointed out 3 Dmen we hope Mcilrath can perform like in the NHL that didnt take much to acquire.
I am expecting MciLrath to perform @ a Shea Weber level.

How about Ville Leino, he was acquired for Tollefsen and a 5th round pick, was a major force in the cup run and had 53 points this year.

How about John LeClair who was part of a package for Mark Recchi, he was just another trade piece and went on to be a huge part of the Legion of Doom.

You hate McIlrath, I get it...your entitled to your opinion, I am hoping the kid becomes a star on Broadway.

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06-10-2011, 03:48 PM
  #928
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Originally Posted by rangers1024 View Post
Wasting your time, lol.
Why because I don't think like you?

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06-10-2011, 04:12 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
I am expecting MciLrath to perform @ a Shea Weber level.

How about Ville Leino, he was acquired for Tollefsen and a 5th round pick, was a major force in the cup run and had 53 points this year.

How about John LeClair who was part of a package for Mark Recchi, he was just another trade piece and went on to be a huge part of the Legion of Doom.

You hate McIlrath, I get it...your entitled to your opinion, I am hoping the kid becomes a star on Broadway.
Actually, I don't think you get it. I've never said I hated Mcilrath. I hate the pick, not the player. He's an NHL defenseman, but I don't think anyone can say he has the Shea Weber in him more than any other tough prospect that can deliver a bomb from the point. I think his stock price was overinflated by a 3 month spurt that he has since to duplicate at that level with any consistency. That doesn't mean he wont or that the injury might have affected that. Still, not the greatest things I want to be hearing about a guy taken #10 overall even though its one year out. Assets are still assets and need to be evaluated now and in the future. Hockey's future! Dun dun dunnnnnnnn!!!!

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06-10-2011, 04:26 PM
  #930
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Why because I don't think like you?
because you dismiss others opinions like they're incorrect instead of taking them for what they are.

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06-10-2011, 04:34 PM
  #931
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I immediately thought of Alex Semin when I watched that Armia video.

Unreal hands, unreal shot. He has that same lankiness to him as well.

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06-10-2011, 05:00 PM
  #932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latexi84 View Post
Dallas (picking at 14) interviewed Armia for 3 hours instead of the casual 20 minutes.
With my luck the Finnish player is picked one spot before our turn again.
Dallas has a long proud history of drafting Finnish players.

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06-10-2011, 05:29 PM
  #933
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
Dallas has a long proud history of drafting Finnish players.
Dallas (and Minny) are the only two teams that I have connected to Armia in mocks I've done.

Also, any idea as to whom the Rangers are interested in specifically?

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06-10-2011, 05:39 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
I immediately thought of Alex Semin when I watched that Armia video.

Unreal hands, unreal shot. He has that same lankiness to him as well.
Same reaction as well, his puckhandling too is very similar. I'd be thrilled to have him.

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06-10-2011, 05:57 PM
  #935
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
It does not matter that games are theoretically available online. I know of no American who watches the juniors, other than some special games like WJC.

There are NHL games every day, there are other things in life. But let me tell you this: all the great experts here claim to know so much about so many players that yes, it would be impossible to watch all those games... as well as the Rangers and Hartford.

Even professional scouts who watch games for a living don't know that many prospects from personal knowledge.

And like I said, if you watch junior hockey, then how come you only know about heralded prospects? Who is the Gilroy of the Ottawa 67s? Who is their Christ? Who is their Newbury?

Until you can answer that without having to Google for the information, please cut the crap about watching juniors on a regular basis.

You saw what all the rest of us saw: WJC, WC, Team Cherry, preseason, an occasional junior game where multiple Ranger prospects played, plus YouTube highlights.
Again, WHO said they watch Juniors on a regular basis?

For example, I watched a handful of games online LAST YEAR to watch Niederreiter because I liked him a lot before he was drafted by the Islanders that is. And I watched a game this year to watch Landeskog because I was interested.

I also watched caught a USHL game to see Grimaldi that everyone had talked about throughout the season.

Also caught some of Kreider's games at BC.

It's not that difficult. It makes NO difference that i live in the US. Again, the internet has everything on it. I watched ALL of Cherepanov's games in Omsk the year after we drafted him.

Some people DO watch every Hartford game. Some go to every Hartford game. Squishy is/was a season ticket holder and also follows the Russian players VERY closely.

Who are you to discredit what people do with their time? Offdacrossbar spends a lot of his time watching CHL games. He knows some of the players.

This board is not for typical Rangers fans. A lot of people here don't live in New York. Loffen is in Norway...does that mean he doesn't watch Rangers games now because he lives in NORWAY? He stays up till 4 am to watch the Rangers. He has a life, too.


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06-10-2011, 06:01 PM
  #936
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So, not much faith in Clark to make a good pick?
When did I say that?

I just don't believe they'll take Khokhlachev.

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06-10-2011, 06:03 PM
  #937
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
I am expecting MciLrath to perform @ a Shea Weber level.

How about Ville Leino, he was acquired for Tollefsen and a 5th round pick, was a major force in the cup run and had 53 points this year.

How about John LeClair who was part of a package for Mark Recchi, he was just another trade piece and went on to be a huge part of the Legion of Doom.

You hate McIlrath, I get it...your entitled to your opinion, I am hoping the kid becomes a star on Broadway.
You will only set yourself up for disappointment, comparing a goon-type prospect to the likely Norris Trophy winner.

McIlirath could be a defenseman with a mean streak, Matt Green, Rob Scuderi, Brooks Orpik, Theo Peckham all come to mind.


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06-10-2011, 06:45 PM
  #938
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Originally Posted by Duskfamous View Post
You will only set yourself up for disappointment, comparing a goon-type prospect to the likely Norris Trophy winner.

McIlirath could be a defenseman with a mean streak, Matt Green, Rob Scuderi, Brooks Orpik, Theo Peckham all come to mind.
I'd be ok with Scuderi and quite pleased with Orpik, if that's who McIlrath turns into.

I just don't think McIlrath has the mental game to turn into a weber, hell I'm still cautious of him turning into an Orpik.

I just don't want to see a Belak.

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Old
06-10-2011, 07:05 PM
  #939
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Originally Posted by Duskfamous View Post
McIlirath could be a defenseman with a mean streak, Matt Green, Rob Scuderi, Brooks Orpik, Theo Peckham all come to mind.
That's better than most #10 picks. Again, fans are way too optimistic about draft picks, and then forget those who do not work out, while focusing on Getzlaf and Hossa.

#10 picks from 1990 to 2005:

1990: Drake Berehowski - garbage defenseman, bust
1991: Martin Lapointe - third liner
1992: Andrei Nazarov - garbage forward, bust
1993: Jocelyn T-Bo - ok goalie, but nothing to write home about
1994: Nolan Baumgartner - bust
1995: Radek Dvorak - second liner
1996: Lance Ward - bust
1997: Brad Ference - bust
1998: Nikolai Antropov - second liner
1999: Brad Mezei - bust
2000: Mikhail Yakubov - bust
2001: Dan Blackburn - injured, unknown outcome (let's remember that all 4 goalies drafted in the first round in 1994 were at one point highly touted, but all failed)
2002: Eric Nystrom - garbage forward, pretty much a bust
2003: Andrei Kostitsyn - second liner
2004: Boris Valabik - bust
2005: Luc Bourdon - a bust or a garbage defenseman


So in those 16 years, we had 3 second liners (Dvorak, Antropov and Kostitsyn) and one good third liner (Lapointe) and a blah goalie (T-Bo). Also, let's take Blackburn out of the equation. Everyone else was either a bust of a total piece of garbage NHLer.

So of the 14 skaters drafted, only 4 were anything more than a bust of a 4th line journeyman. None were first liners. If you take out the exceptional 2003 draft, only 2 of 13 skaters became second liners.

So don't just sit here and expect impact players at this level just because there is so much hype around players. If we get an average NHLer with a 10th overall pick, we did well with it.

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06-10-2011, 07:10 PM
  #940
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
That's better than most #10 picks. Again, fans are way too optimistic about draft picks, and then forget those who do not work out, while focusing on Getzlaf and Hossa.

#10 picks from 1990 to 2005:

1990: Drake Berehowski - garbage defenseman, bust
1991: Martin Lapointe - third liner
1992: Andrei Nazarov - garbage forward, bust
1993: Jocelyn T-Bo - ok goalie, but nothing to write home about
1994: Nolan Baumgartner - bust
1995: Radek Dvorak - second liner
1996: Lance Ward - bust
1997: Brad Ference - bust
1998: Nikolai Antropov - second liner
1999: Brad Mezei - bust
2000: Mikhail Yakubov - bust
2001: Dan Blackburn - injured, unknown outcome (let's remember that all 4 goalies drafted in the first round in 1994 were at one point highly touted, but all failed)
2002: Eric Nystrom - garbage forward, pretty much a bust
2003: Andrei Kostitsyn - second liner
2004: Boris Valabik - bust
2005: Luc Bourdon - a bust or a garbage defenseman


So in those 16 years, we had 3 second liners (Dvorak, Antropov and Kostitsyn) and one good third liner (Lapointe) and a blah goalie (T-Bo). Also, let's take Blackburn out of the equation. Everyone else was either a bust of a total piece of garbage NHLer.

So of the 14 skaters drafted, only 4 were anything more than a bust of a 4th line journeyman. None were first liners. If you take out the exceptional 2003 draft, only 2 of 13 skaters became second liners.

So don't just sit here and expect impact players at this level just because there is so much hype around players. If we get an average NHLer with a 10th overall pick, we did well with it.
Once again, because you seem to be unfamiliar with how scouting has changed, especially over the last 5-10 years, you don't understand that comparing drafting today with drafting of the 90s and even the early 2000s is not sensible.

Things have changed a lot, especially since the lockout.

Also, to say that Luc Bourdon was a bust or a garbage defenseman is ridiculous. The kid died before he ever had a chance to play in the NHL.

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06-10-2011, 07:13 PM
  #941
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Luc Bourdon did play in the NHL. Had a pretty good future ahead of him. He died in a motorcylce accident a couple months after he turned 21.

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06-10-2011, 07:16 PM
  #942
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Top 5 for Mika

Quote:
At the start of the 2010-11 season, Mika Zibanejad was viewed as an interesting prospect who fell below several other Swedish forwards on early prospect rankings. With just two weeks left before the draft the high-intensity Swedish center has vaulted up those very same lists.

"He could be picked top-five and that wouldn't surprise," says one experienced scout. "The developmental steps he took after the Christmas break were very impressive. He's gone from interesting to promising and he did so playing in the Elite league with and against grown men."
http://insider.espn.go.com/nhl/blog?...aft&id=6645046

One scout compared Mika to Daniel Alfredsson.

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06-10-2011, 07:19 PM
  #943
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Luc Bourdon did play in the NHL. Had a pretty good future ahead of him. He died in a motorcylce accident a couple months after he turned 21.
He played 25 or 30 games. That's not nearly enough to show what kind of a player he was going to be.

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Top 5 for Mika

http://insider.espn.go.com/nhl/blog?...aft&id=6645046

One scout compared Mika to Daniel Alfredsson.
I think he's a very solid prospect, and I guess I could see him being picked in the top 5 too, but I don't really see the comparison there. He's significantly more physical than Alfie, while not really possessing the same level of skill. Probably a bit lower in the hockey IQ department, though certainly no slouch, too.

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06-10-2011, 07:20 PM
  #944
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Dammit, we;;, there goes Zibanejad.

On the bright side... someone has to fall.

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06-10-2011, 07:48 PM
  #945
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Once again, because you seem to be unfamiliar with how scouting has changed, especially over the last 5-10 years, you don't understand that comparing drafting today with drafting of the 90s and even the early 2000s is not sensible.

Things have changed a lot, especially since the lockout.

I would say that you just don't know what "a lot" means. It's like saying that the economy improved a lot, when it really means 4%. (Yes, I know, there I go with an analogy that is so hard to comprehend. Those SATs must have been a total disaster.)

You want to sit there and make believe that teams will now be pulling impact players with any kind of certainty after the first few picks, go ahead. What you will find out is that all these scouting improvements led to only marginally better results.

Think of it this way: how many NHLers are impact players? Let's say its one third of the skaters, which would be 6 skaters per team or 180 total in the NHL.

An average top player plays 12-15 years. That would mean that any given draft should produce 12-15 impact players.

Let's assume that only 3 of the top 5 draftee are impact players and the others are role players or busts.

Let's say that two of 5 players who went 6-10 became second liners. That is below expectations seeing as fans expect great things from players drafted at 6, 8, etc.

Let's say rounds 2-7 produce a half a dozen second liners from the 180 picks in those rounds. That's one player per round (round two should do better, round 7 worse).

That leaves only 2 impact players to be drafted from 11 to 30. That's about the average we saw historically.

Now let's say there was a massive scouting improvement. That would help the top 10 the most. Let's say top 10 now produces 8 impact players. Let's say only a couple of players slip through the cracks into round two or below.

That would still leave only a couple impact players to be drafted from 11 to 30.

Your problem is really that there are not enough impact players around. If so many players were so good that every draft was producing a large number of impact players, then the definition of impact player would become different.

If half the NHL became as good as Gretzky, then someone like him would no longer be an impact player.

You can't count someone who is not in the top third as an impact player because such a player is too replaceable and too common.

Instead of impact player, let me use a different term: above average NHLer.

Ultimately, a draft will produce only 12-15 above average NHLers per year, on average of course with strong drafts doing better than weak ones.

A few of them will go top-5, and a few will slip to the second round. And that will leave awfully few above average NHLers who will be drafted between 6 and 30.

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06-10-2011, 07:57 PM
  #946
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Actually, I don't think you get it. I've never said I hated Mcilrath. I hate the pick, not the player. He's an NHL defenseman, but I don't think anyone can say he has the Shea Weber in him more than any other tough prospect that can deliver a bomb from the point. I think his stock price was overinflated by a 3 month spurt that he has since to duplicate at that level with any consistency. That doesn't mean he wont or that the injury might have affected that. Still, not the greatest things I want to be hearing about a guy taken #10 overall even though its one year out. Assets are still assets and need to be evaluated now and in the future. Hockey's future! Dun dun dunnnnnnnn!!!!
what have you been hearing?

Do you have some inside scoop or someone who watches him on a daily basis?

So, the Rangers just signed him to cover up their mistake?

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06-10-2011, 08:03 PM
  #947
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Originally Posted by Duskfamous View Post
You will only set yourself up for disappointment, comparing a goon-type prospect to the likely Norris Trophy winner.

McIlirath could be a defenseman with a mean streak, Matt Green, Rob Scuderi, Brooks Orpik, Theo Peckham all come to mind.
Yes, we all know how a 18 year is going to develop.

Listen, maybe the kid is a bust maybe he is not...but for everyone to write emphatically is beyond ridiculous.

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06-10-2011, 08:03 PM
  #948
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There is no way McIlrath wasn't going to sign a contract.

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06-10-2011, 08:11 PM
  #949
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Originally Posted by Duskfamous View Post
You will only set yourself up for disappointment, comparing a goon-type prospect to the likely Norris Trophy winner.

McIlirath could be a defenseman with a mean streak, Matt Green, Rob Scuderi, Brooks Orpik, Theo Peckham all come to mind.
Let me ask you...would you draft Ryan Suter, Konstantin Glazachev and Kevin Klien before you draft Shea Weber?

Ironically, Nashville drafted those 3 before Weber...do you think anyone thought Weber would be as good as he has become?

Yet, we all know this kid is going to fail...he might, he might not, I am hoping that he exceeds because I am a Ranger fan and only want the best for my team, get it?

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06-10-2011, 08:11 PM
  #950
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There is no way McIlrath wasn't going to sign a contract.
Thanks for the color.

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