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Brad Richards News Part IV

View Poll Results: Will Richards Sign In NY?
Yes 118 53.15%
No 64 28.83%
Kesler Did It 40 18.02%
Voters: 222. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-10-2011, 09:33 PM
  #51
NYRangers16
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How is Dubi not at least a second line LW? 60 pts isn't good enough for second line? Horrible analysis Kenjets36.

Also, Richards fills two of the needs you meantioned...1C and PPQB. That leaves two needs...a 1st or 2nd LW(I still think Dubi can handle 1LW if our second is just as good), and a big shot from the point on the PP. Those two needs aren't impossible to fill...in fact, they're pretty easy. Babchuk comes to mind as far as booming shots, but i'm sure we can find someone. Also second line wingers can be traded for.

We are really really close to being a cup contender...Richards, a top 2 LW, and a PP point shooter...that's all we are missing, and honestly, we can get all this while keeping the core intact.

So I dunno where this business is coming from about being that far away, or Dubi should be on the 3rd line, or Richards doesn't fill enough needs, or hell even rebuilding. We are rebuilt - that part is complete - now's the time to add offensive talent and to continue to draft well so that later on we won't be cp-strapped. But for now, we have the cap room and the ability to fill all our holes and be in great shape.

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06-10-2011, 09:38 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Dubinsky doesn't belong on the 1st line. He's a questionable 2nd line winger, ideally a 3rd liner. He's part of the soul of this team, unfortunately, despite the fact that he's our leading scorer, he's not talented enough to be on our first line. If we were to compare him in basketball terms, he's the hockey equivalent to a ball stopper. He has little vision on the ice, not a great passer, and not a great shooter. The majority of his shots are either between the lettering on the goalie's chest, whiffed upon, or go wide. However, he is a valuable asset to our team because he's the heart that keeps churning, the energy that is needed when the rest of the team needs a boost. He's capable of being a 2nd liner because of the sheer fact that he is able to produce a decent amount of points (due mostly to his puck-hoggish nature, however, his role is best as a 3rd liner.
Dubinsky's ideally a 3rd line winger? Yaaa... Ok...

His puck-possession is actually one of his assets; it's not puck-hogging at all. His all-around game, combined with his work ethic and intangibles is what makes him a legitimate top-6 forward on most teams in the league. It's not even debateable.

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As for Prospal, he shouldn't be on this team next year. He can't keep up with our youth. He's unpredictable, his knee was clearly not anywhere near close to 100% last year, he could be out at any time, and even if he's not what are the benefits to having a 1 legged player on our 2nd line? There are none, he's a veteran, but at this point in his career not much more. If he's on our 2nd line next year, we're in a lot of trouble. Him being on the 1st line this year pretty much summed up our offense this year... Someone who had the heart and determination to come back, even when he wasn't supposed to, who has some offensive talent, but just doesn't cut it.
With Drury being bought out/traded, I certainly would welcome Prospal back at the right price. If he misses some time it wouldn't be a huge deal since we have depth. His 23 points in 29 games is proof he can still produce offensively.

If all our priorities are set, and had better options (realistic ones) than Prospal, I wouldn't be opposed to that scenario. But his enthusiasm, experience, and offensive capabilities would be welcomed here. Plus, he has the entire off-season to rest that knee and come back as orange as ever. (The tan is what triggers the beast within)

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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
As for pp QB, Del Zotto is similar to Richards. He can move the puck around well, has above average vision on the ice which will hopefully develop into great vision and decision making, however he lacks the explosive point shot we need. We have no one to do that. McCabe was the closest we came to that this year and he's on the decline. We need a Shea Weber esque player.
Valentenko, Erixon, and McIlrath have heavy shots. Richards+MDZ+Gaborik = You don't even need a point shot anyway. With those three on the ice, it should be tic-tac plays. You want a heavy point shot when you're lacking creativeness on ice.

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Finally someone who sees Dubinsky for what he is as well.
Shocker . . . .
Really


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06-10-2011, 10:11 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Dubinsky's ideally a 3rd line winger? Yaaa... Ok...

His puck-possession is actually one of his assets; it's not puck-hogging at all. His all-around game, combined with his work ethic and intangibles is what makes him a legitimate top-6 forward on most teams in the league. It's not even debateable.



With Drury being bought out/traded, I certainly would welcome Prospal back at the right price. If he misses some time it wouldn't be a huge deal since we have depth. His 23 points in 29 games is proof he can still produce offensively.

If all our priorities are set, and had better options (realistic ones) than Prospal, I wouldn't be opposed to that scenario. But his enthusiasm, experience, and offensive capabilities would be welcomed here. Plus, he has the entire off-season to rest that knee and come back as orange as ever. (The tan is what triggers the beast within)



Valentenko, Erixon, and McIlrath have heavy shots. Richards+MDZ+Gaborik = You don't even need a point shot anyway. With those three on the ice, it should be tic-tac plays. You want a heavy point shot when you're lacking creativeness on ice.



Shocker . . . .
Really


Dubinsky breaks 50p for the first time in his career and it's not even up for debate with you that he's a legit top six forward?

Prospal is finished and should retire.

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06-10-2011, 10:14 PM
  #54
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Dubinsky breaks 50p for the first time in his career and it's not even up for debate with you that he's a legit top six forward?

Prospal is finished and should retire.
How many teams do you think there are in the league that Dubinsky wouldn't be on the second line?

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06-10-2011, 10:20 PM
  #55
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How many teams do you think there are in the league that Dubinsky wouldn't be on the second line?
probably several with weak offensive forwards like the NYR. This is his first year breaking 50p and passing 20g. He qualifies for 2nd line duty in the NHL. Let's see if he can sustain and surpass it, but right now it's just speculation.

I'm not saying i wan't Dubinsky off the team but some are acting like he should be off limits in a package for a top player and i thinks that's crazy. that's my opinion.

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06-10-2011, 10:22 PM
  #56
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Dubinsky breaks 50p for the first time in his career and it's not even up for debate with you that he's a legit top six forward?

Prospal is finished and should retire.
The only thing you have mentioned is points -- and, again, points are not the only way to determine the level of a player and their position in this league. Even simply using the points argument, Dubinsky has never scored less than 40 points in 4 seasons as an NHLer, with back to back 20 goal seasons -- these are top-6 numbers. Dubinsky, from this point on, is a 40-55 point player who is above average on the defensive side of the puck, an excellent forechecker, and can play in any situation. He is, without a doubt, a legitimate 2nd liner in this league. Even if you don't like him that much, you cannot deny this, because saying otherwise is simply untrue.

As for Prospal -- 23 points in 29 games says otherwise -- that's about 65 points over a full season. He had 59 the year before. He isn't "finished and should retire". He still has the vision and hands to play PP time, and compliment a line offensively.

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06-10-2011, 10:29 PM
  #57
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Vinny P on the bottom 6 and as a PP specialist would be fantastic.

I think if you watch his minutes he still has it in him. He showed INCREDIBLE tenacity this year to play as well as he did down the stretch. I've always liked Vinny P but this year he truly became a sort of favorite of mine.

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06-10-2011, 10:29 PM
  #58
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Bonuses are allowed on ELCs and 35+ contracts.
Would they be able to throw in bonuses on the years when he is 35+ or he has to be 35+ when the contract is signed?

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06-10-2011, 10:30 PM
  #59
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The only thing you have mentioned is points -- and, again, points are not the only way to determine the level of a player and their position in this league. Even simply using the points argument, Dubinsky has never scored less than 40 points in 4 seasons as an NHLer, with back to back 20 goal seasons -- these are top-6 numbers. Dubinsky, from this point on, is a 40-55 point player who is above average on the defensive side of the puck, an excellent forechecker, and can play in any situation. He is, without a doubt, a legitimate 2nd liner in this league. Even if you don't like him that much, you cannot deny this, because saying otherwise is simply untrue.

As for Prospal -- 23 points in 29 games says otherwise -- that's about 65 points over a full season. He had 59 the year before. He isn't "finished and should retire". He still has the vision and hands to play PP time, and compliment a line offensively.
read my last post Steve. Dubinsky a "light" top six forward imo.
on an offensively starved team like the NYR he's a top six guy.
I think he's a good player, i'm just not gonzo over him like some are.

I can't use pts exlusively for Dubinsky, but you can for Prospal? Funny how that works. He didn't/couldn't play a full season the year before. He's on the verge of breaking down completely. He did virutally nothing in the playoffs.

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06-10-2011, 10:31 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Vinny P on the bottom 6 and as a PP specialist would be fantastic.

I think if you watch his minutes he still has it in him. He showed INCREDIBLE tenacity this year to play as well as he did down the stretch. I've always liked Vinny P but this year he truly became a sort of favorite of mine.
If WW is bought out, I'd look into bringing Prospal back. If not, I don't think there is the room for him.

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06-10-2011, 10:32 PM
  #61
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Bonuses are allowed on ELCs and 35+ contracts.
Performance bonuses are limited to ELCs and 35+ contracts, plus players with 400+ games who spent significant time on IR in the prior season.

Signing, Roster and Reporting Bonuses are permitted on any contract. If the bonus is structured so as to be 1mm per year over the life of the contract, that is allowed. If they were to try to dump the bonus into one or 2 seasons, it would probably violate the 100% rule (where the season to season value cannot change by more than 100% - e.g. go from 2mm to 4.5mm - including bonuses).

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06-10-2011, 10:37 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
read my last post Steve. Dubinsky a "light" top six forward imo.
on an offensively starved team like the NYR he's a top six guy.
I think he's a good player, i'm just not gonzo over him like some are.

I can't use pts exlusively for Dubinsky, but you can for Prospal? Funny how that works. He didn't/couldn't play a full season the year before. He's on the verge of breaking down completely. He did virutally nothing in the playoffs.
If you don't think Dubinsky's 50 points is enough to be considered a top 6 forward, then by your standards, the NHL only has 89 top 6 forwards in total. Add in the extra things that Dubinsky does as a player - Physical presence, defensive awareness - I just don't see how he's an 'ideal' third line player.

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06-10-2011, 10:38 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by dbmaven View Post
Performance bonuses are limited to ELCs and 35+ contracts, plus players with 400+ games who spent significant time on IR in the prior season.

Signing, Roster and Reporting Bonuses are permitted on any contract. If the bonus is structured so as to be 1mm per year over the life of the contract, that is allowed. If they were to try to dump the bonus into one or 2 seasons, it would probably violate the 100% rule (where the season to season value cannot change by more than 100% - e.g. go from 2mm to 4.5mm - including bonuses).
So essentially, couldn't the Rangers give him a signing bonus so he gets the money he wants, but it doesn't count against the cap?

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06-10-2011, 10:39 PM
  #64
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read my last post Steve. Dubinsky a "light" top six forward imo.
on an offensively starved team like the NYR he's a top six guy.
I think he's a good player, i'm just not gonzo over him like some are.
Neither am I -- I don't think he's anything more than a 55-60 point 2nd liner in a good year. But, on most teams in this league, he is a 2nd liner. Even on a team like Vancouver(better than Raymond), Detroit(better than Bertuzzi/Cleary), Chicago(better than Stalberg/Kopecky), Tampa Bay(better than Gagne/Malone), Pittsburgh(better than Neal and Kunitz), and Philadelphia(better than Hartnell), he would be getting top-6 minutes. He is a 2nd liner through and through.

Quote:
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I can't use pts exlusively for Dubinsky, but you can for Prospal? Funny how that works. He didn't/couldn't play a full season the year before. He's on the verge of breaking down completely. He did virutally nothing in the playoffs.
He didn't play a full season in 09-10? He played 80 games.

As for points, I didn't "just" use that -- but, in this case, it's a pretty relevant point. 23 points in 29 games is pretty damn good for someone who is supposedly "done". He's still the best playmaker on this team, as sad as that may be.

And every player was useless in the playoffs, sans the top-4 defense and Lundqvist.

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06-10-2011, 10:53 PM
  #65
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I don't really know how this stuff works, but can't the Rangers give him a signing bonus so that we can pay him less. For example, give him a 6.5 mil contract (6.5 cap hit too) and then give him a 7 mil signing bonus (1 mil per year, assuming a 7 year contract is signed)? or are signing bonuses only allowed for ELC's?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassassin View Post
Bonuses are allowed on ELCs and 35+ contracts.
that is true on performance bonuses but i'm not 100% sure on signing bonuses...according to cap geek, dan hamhuis gets a signing bonus ($2 mil each of the first 3 years, and $1 mil per the last 3 years).

but i'm pretty sure it doesn't matter and the signing bonus gets averaged into the salary...if you pay a guy a $6 mil base salary with a $1 mil signing bonus then its still a $7 mil cap hit.

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06-10-2011, 10:58 PM
  #66
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Neither am I -- I don't think he's anything more than a 55-60 point 2nd liner in a good year. But, on most teams in this league, he is a 2nd liner. Even on a team like Vancouver(better than Raymond), Detroit(better than Bertuzzi/Cleary), Chicago(better than Stalberg/Kopecky), Tampa Bay(better than Gagne/Malone), Pittsburgh(better than Neal and Kunitz), and Philadelphia(better than Hartnell), he would be getting top-6 minutes. He is a 2nd liner through and through.



He didn't play a full season in 09-10? He played 80 games.

As for points, I didn't "just" use that -- but, in this case, it's a pretty relevant point. 23 points in 29 games is pretty damn good for someone who is supposedly "done". He's still the best playmaker on this team, as sad as that may be.

And every player was useless in the playoffs, sans the top-4 defense and Lundqvist.
Many of the players you mentioned that hes now "better than" are aging. Many of these players hit and surpassed 20g/50p several times in their careers. This is Dubinsky's first year passing 50p.
He's a weak top six forward imo. Your "stats" and reasonings don't prove otherwise.

Prospal, i meant this year. You extrapolated his 23p for this year into another 65p season when he COULDN'T PLAY a full season this year. he was fine as a stop gap, but he's done. he can't skate and most likely won't finish a full season or be completely useless by the end of the season.

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06-10-2011, 11:03 PM
  #67
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If you don't think Dubinsky's 50 points is enough to be considered a top 6 forward, then by your standards, the NHL only has 89 top 6 forwards in total. Add in the extra things that Dubinsky does as a player - Physical presence, defensive awareness - I just don't see how he's an 'ideal' third line player.
i just wrote in the post you qouted that imo i consider him a "light" top six forward. This is the first year he broke 50p. Let's see if he can sustain it. He scored only 5 goals in the last 25 of the regular season. He went 11g without scoring a goal.

I think he's a good player, and a good ranger, but if he wants over 4m a year, and he's going to be an @ss about it again, i would trade him. He still has alot to prove.

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06-10-2011, 11:05 PM
  #68
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Devils were penalized last summer for those types of contracts.

If that what it takes for a player to come here, then I probably don't even want him.
devils got in trouble for being too extreme and pushing things too far...those types of deals are still allowed on a smaller scale.

i don't think anyone is suggesting we give richards a 15 year deal like kovalchuk...but the number being tossed around is 7yr, $49 mil ($7 mil/year). would it really be that bad if we make it 8yr, $50 mil ($6.25 mil/year) front loaded so its only $1 mil in the final year?? Richards still gets his $49 mil over 7 years and the extra year gives us a friendly cap hit.

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06-10-2011, 11:08 PM
  #69
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read my last post Steve. Dubinsky a "light" top six forward imo.
on an offensively starved team like the NYR he's a top six guy.
Please show me a team where he isn't one of the best 6 forwards.

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06-10-2011, 11:08 PM
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devils got in trouble for being too extreme and pushing things too far...those types of deals are still allowed on a smaller scale.

i don't think anyone is suggesting we give richards a 15 year deal like kovalchuk...but the number being tossed around is 7yr, $49 mil ($7 mil/year). would it really be that bad if we make it 8yr, $50 mil ($6.25 mil/year) front loaded so its only $1 mil in the final year?? Richards still gets his $49 mil over 7 years and the extra year gives us a friendly cap hit.
Thing is, there was a new rule made when Kovalchuk was signed -- and you cannot just tack on that extra year @ $1,000,000 million willy-nilly. You cannot have more than a $5,000,000 million drop-off from season to season, or else it is considered circumvention.

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06-10-2011, 11:22 PM
  #71
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Thing is, there was a new rule made when Kovalchuk was signed -- and you cannot just tack on that extra year @ $1,000,000 million willy-nilly. You cannot have more than a $5,000,000 million drop-off from season to season, or else it is considered circumvention.
I thought you can't drop the salary by more than 50%. Even if one year is $12M, you can have the next season at $6M (which I know won't happen here).

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06-10-2011, 11:24 PM
  #72
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I thought you can't drop the salary by more than 50%. Even if one year is $12M, you can have the next season at $6M (which I know won't happen here).
Might be that -- could be I'm getting 50% and 5M confused.

EDIT: Here:

Quote:
1. While players and clubs can continue to negotiate long-term contracts (five years or longer) that include contract years in a player's 40s, for purposes of salary-cap calculation the contract will effectively be cut off in the year of the contract in which the player turns 41.

This basically means that if a 33-year-old player signs an eight-year contract, the amount owed to him in the first seven years of the contract will be averaged for the purposes of salary-cap computation. Then, in Year 8 of the contract, the salary he will make for that particular season will determine his salary-cap hit for that season.

So, if Kovalchuk's contract applied to this rule, the average of what he's owed in the first 13 years would be applied to the Devils salary cap from 2010-2023 and the cap hit would be $7.15 million because he is reportedly due to make $93 million across that span. Then, per the reported terms, the cap hit would change to $3 million in 2023-24 (as Kovalchuk turns 41 in April of that season) and $4 million in 2024-25.

2. In any long-term contract that averages more than $5.75 million for the three highest-compensation seasons, the cap charge will be a minimum of $1 million for every season in which the player is 36-39 years of age. That $1 million value will then be used to determine the salary cap hit for the entire contract. If the contract takes the player into his 40s, the previous rule goes into effect.

For example, Savard's contract reportedly calls for him to make $525,000 per season in the final two years of his seven-year, $28 million deal. He will be 38 and 39 in those seasons. If his contract was subject to these new regulations, for purposes of calculating the salary cap the final two years on his deal will reflect as if he was making $1 million. That would make his reported $4 million cap hit go up to $4.14 million.

The club and player still can agree to a contract that pays a player less than $1 million when he is at those ages, but for salary-cap purposes the number applied to the team's annual average salary will be $1 million.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=5...vid=nhl-search

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06-10-2011, 11:34 PM
  #73
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Might be that -- could be I'm getting 50% and 5M confused.

EDIT: Here:



http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=5...vid=nhl-search
Thanks for that quote, but that doesn't mention anything about the maximum drop in salary..

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06-10-2011, 11:34 PM
  #74
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I know, I looked for it on Google, but couldn't find anything.

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06-11-2011, 12:05 AM
  #75
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Thing is, there was a new rule made when Kovalchuk was signed -- and you cannot just tack on that extra year @ $1,000,000 million willy-nilly. You cannot have more than a $5,000,000 million drop-off from season to season, or else it is considered circumvention.
well yeah i'm not saying $7 mil each of the 1st 7 years and then drop to $1 mil. i meant front load it so it declines within the rules with the 8th year being $1 mil

something like 10, 10, 9, 8, 6, 4, 2, 1 i believe would be legal under the rules...he gets most of the $$ in the first 6 years.

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