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Old
06-11-2011, 12:08 PM
  #26
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I actually thinking more about the draft. Everyone wants us to load up on centers, but I would prefer to get a LW, all other things being equal and if there is no clear cut BPA.


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Originally Posted by NYRandazzo View Post
The problem with LW is that the UFA class of free agents is VERY bottom heavy. The best guy on the list is Gagne (Semin was resigned). The previous season he had a cap hit of 5.25 and is also the most expensive LW UFA. I don't have a problem with signing Gagne as long as we get him for the right price. I don't see him signing anywhere for over 4.5 cap hit especially being 31. We all have seen him play down the turnpike so we know the kind of player he is and I think he can be a great compliment to Gaborik and Richards. Gagne is the type of player to dig the puck out of the corner and put it on BR or Gabby's stick. You would also have BR on that line and he's a big body that can fit our low cycle style. Or we can put him on the second line to balance out the first 2 lines.

I read some people saying that we should move Artie to LW. He's the type of player who can work the outside and be strong on his skates while on the rush. But we would be losing a great young center. Your center should be the guy you build around with the two wingers. Plus AA plays very well in his own end for a young player. Especially a Russian (We all know how Kovalev and Zherdev worked out). So moving AA to LW should be out of the question.

Next probable guy is Dubi. He's a great faceoff man and after Drury is the best on the team. We need to have a great faceoff man. Plus taking him away from Cally isn't too smart.

Stepan had a great rookie season. Should've had more goals with all those wide open nets he had and rings off the post. We'll give him a brake it was his rookie year. BUT, he had the worst FO% in the league. Either get better at the draws or move to a wing.

Prospal will likely be back but can not, I repeat can not play on the first line as a wing. He is too old and slow. He has great heart and gives it his all but he's always a step behind. I'd like him to be a PP and 3rd line guy. Most likely on a line with a young guy who makes it out of camp. I think that would be his best role.

Wolski is the question mark. We don't even know where he will be come September. But he is not the answer to our 1st line wing.

Gilroy? Haha just a joke

So after further review, Simon Gagne (at the right price) looks like our best option

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06-11-2011, 12:26 PM
  #27
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Wingers are interchangeable, deep down the middle wins championships.

Don't insult Dubinsky by saying he can't play wing on a top line.

Bryan Boyle is capable of playing left wing and I believe can convert and succeed, successfully like Dubinsky has. MZA plays both wings, Avery can play both wings and is perfect for the third line. We got some kid Grachev still tooling around in Hartford, maybe you've heard of him and I still think we should consider signing Fleischmann.

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06-11-2011, 01:20 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
Wingers are interchangeable, deep down the middle wins championships.

Don't insult Dubinsky by saying he can't play wing on a top line.

Bryan Boyle is capable of playing left wing and I believe can convert and succeed, successfully like Dubinsky has. MZA plays both wings, Avery can play both wings and is perfect for the third line. We got some kid Grachev still tooling around in Hartford, maybe you've heard of him and I still think we should consider signing Fleischmann.

Dubinsky can be a first liner on a playoff team, just not a contender. Not unless there is tremendous talent all around the rest of the team.

Boyle could be a solid third liner, at C or LW, but I don't see him as a top-6 player unless he becomes a much better hitter (not quantity of hits, but how hard he hits) AND shoots much harder rather than flinging the puck as he does now. Unless both of these happen, he won't be a second liner. I expect him to be a solid third liner, no more.

MZA? I am not sold on him either way. He could be a second liner or he could fail completely, we'll have to see. Either way, I am not sure that Dubinsky-MZA-Boyle on the left wing gets us into Cup contention.

Now, if Kreider becomes a 30-40=70 player, then we are golden. But do we want to bet on that? I think we would be wise either drafting a LW in the first round or trading for a young left wing prospect (Erixon quality, obviously different style and for a greater return).

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06-11-2011, 01:42 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
Dubinsky can be a first liner on a playoff team, just not a contender. Not unless there is tremendous talent all around the rest of the team.

Boyle could be a solid third liner, at C or LW, but I don't see him as a top-6 player unless he becomes a much better hitter (not quantity of hits, but how hard he hits) AND shoots much harder rather than flinging the puck as he does now. Unless both of these happen, he won't be a second liner. I expect him to be a solid third liner, no more.

MZA? I am not sold on him either way. He could be a second liner or he could fail completely, we'll have to see. Either way, I am not sure that Dubinsky-MZA-Boyle on the left wing gets us into Cup contention.

Now, if Kreider becomes a 30-40=70 player, then we are golden. But do we want to bet on that? I think we would be wise either drafting a LW in the first round or trading for a young left wing prospect (Erixon quality, obviously different style and for a greater return).
Personally, I don't understand the idea behind saying that Dubi can't be a top LW on a contender. Teams are built many different ways - even championship teams or contenders come in all sorts of flavors. I think people are writing Gabby off and therefore thinking that we need more on the top line than we actually do. If Richards comes this summer, a top line of Dubi - Richards - Gaborik, unless Gaborik has another enormously disappointing season, will be a very, very solid first line. Richards and Gaborik are elite scorers. Aside from last year Gaborik has always been a monster (career points per game of ~.89) and Richards has as well (career point per game of ~.93). On a line with those two, taking advantage of the space that they create and the respect that they command from an opposing D, I don't think its unrealistic to think that Dubi could go 30 & 30. Thats a formidable 1st line - an elite C, an elite RW and a 30g 30a LW. It doesn't get much better than that in a cap world. Even contenders don't have first lines that have an elite player in every position.

Second LW could be Wolski. I'd give him a shot. He'll have an off season working on his skating with Boyle and Underhill under his belt and he'll start the season being comfortable in a new city and having bonded a bit more with his teammates. There was talk of him being bought out so he knows that if he's comfortable in NYC and wants to stay that this season is the time to make it happen. He's got the talent. Hopefully this year he'll have the motivation. Put him with Step and Callahan - if he can't bust his balls to save his career while on a line with those two guys, pure heart and soul players, then its time to talk about finding someone else.

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06-11-2011, 01:45 PM
  #30
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Ideally, offensively Dubi should be our 2nd line LWer.

But depending on our number 1 center he can work as a number 1 LW easily if he can continue to enhance his offensive game and his game as whole.

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06-11-2011, 02:37 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Ideally, offensively Dubi should be our 2nd line LWer.

But depending on our number 1 center he can work as a number 1 LW easily if he can continue to enhance his offensive game and his game as whole.

I think Dubi can play on the LW of Gabby and Brad for a good first line. But then we still have a hole at LW on the second line unless another player matures into a good second liner role.

Then again, just as Dubi could be on the first line with two stars, so can Step with two star wingers.

SBOB is right that the problem may just be lack of scoring and it does not matter where it comes from.

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06-11-2011, 03:23 PM
  #32
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The very reason we need to sign Richards is because he has the ability to make second liners look like first liners. Dubi, in a healthy season on the first line with Richards and Gaborik could crack 70 points, with 60 being a near certainty. Gaborik should return to 09'-10' form... or better with Richards. He does all that while holding his own putting 25+ in the net himself. It's CRUCIAL to sign a player like Richards who gets the best out of his line mates because our forwards MUST account for a very high percentage of our goals, especially our top line, as our defensive corps just isn't going to contribute much offensively.

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06-11-2011, 03:51 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
The very reason we need to sign Richards is because he has the ability to make second liners look like first liners. Dubi, in a healthy season on the first line with Richards and Gaborik could crack 70 points, with 60 being a near certainty. Gaborik should return to 09'-10' form... or better with Richards. He does all that while holding his own putting 25+ in the net himself. It's CRUCIAL to sign a player like Richards who gets the best out of his line mates because our forwards MUST account for a very high percentage of our goals, especially our top line, as our defensive corps just isn't going to contribute much offensively.

Look, I hope we do sign Brad... for a reasonable amount. I just don't see that as possible. I think instead of signing him to a $6.5 over 5 years contract that he deserves, or even to a $7 over 6 years that we could live with, the result will be some ridiculous contract of over $7.5 over 7 years. I just don't know if a $53-$55 contract is a good idea.

We'll have $22 million tied up in 3 players (Gabby, Brad and Lundqvist) while we still have big holes at LW and offensive D.

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06-11-2011, 04:39 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
Dubinsky can be a first liner on a playoff team, just not a contender.
No one builds a contender here. It is not in the business model of the owner. Rangers produce revenues by just getting in playoffs for now.
Therefore Dubinski is okay as 2LW/ 1LW
We will have Wolski as 3LW to replace Fedotenko.
The are FA that can fill 1LW position for us at not as huge expense as that for 1C. Prospal could be signed as 1LW

FA/ Prospal-Richards-Gaborik
Dubi-AA-Callahan - strong 2nd
Wolski-Boyle-Prust looks like balanced 3rd line.
Avery-Chistensen/ callup - callup

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06-11-2011, 04:51 PM
  #35
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I'm not concerned. You don't need all first-liners on a first line. I prefer to have a good center and a good wing, with a grinder on the opposite wing. I think Fedotenko-Richards-Gaborik or Prust-Richards-Gaborik would make a better line than three scorers. Every line needs someone that's gonna do sewer work while the scorers get open. To me a first line isn't necessarily your three best scorers. It could be successful as your two best scorers with some sandpaper on the other wing. Some good examples are Carcillo-Richards-Briere and Richardson-Kopitar-Brown. I think this type of setup would work better for the Rangers, who have plenty of blue-collar players, rather than trying to find a third scorer.

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06-11-2011, 04:52 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
No one builds a contender here. It is not in the business model of the owner. Rangers produce revenues by just getting in playoffs for now.
Therefore Dubinski is okay as 2LW/ 1LW
We will have Wolski as 3LW to replace Fedotenko.
The are FA that can fill 1LW position for us at not as huge expense as that for 1C. Prospal could be signed as 1LW

FA/ Prospal-Richards-Gaborik
Dubi-AA-Callahan - strong 2nd
Wolski-Boyle-Prust looks like balanced 3rd line.
Avery-Chistensen/ callup - callup



Stepan?

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06-11-2011, 05:01 PM
  #37
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That was fun.

LW is an issue for the team, but I do think C is more important.

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06-11-2011, 05:49 PM
  #38
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For the people who want a second line of Dubinsky-Stepan-Callahan, why don't we just move Dubinsky back to center and have Stepan on the wing?

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06-11-2011, 05:53 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by kaneone View Post
For the people who want a second line of Dubinsky-Stepan-Callahan, why don't we just move Dubinsky back to center and have Stepan on the wing?
That seems backwards.

Dubinsky has been better at wing than at center -- it allows him to utilize his size and his puck control to his full advantage. Stepan would be, IMO, a disaster at left wing. He is a playmaker, first and foremost, so being on his offside is not in his best interest -- he's also not strong enough on his skates to use the boards to their full advantage.

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06-11-2011, 06:18 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Chester 88 View Post
I really wouldn't be opposed to any of AA, Step, or Boyle moving to the wing as long as its only one of them. Just think Anisimov could really benefit at top line LW because of his skill, hustle, 2 way game, and shot.
AA on the Wing? LOL he is as far from being a winger as anyone on this team including our D men.

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06-11-2011, 06:19 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
That seems backwards.

Dubinsky has been better at wing than at center -- it allows him to utilize his size and his puck control to his full advantage. Stepan would be, IMO, a disaster at left wing. He is a playmaker, first and foremost, so being on his offside is not in his best interest -- he's also not strong enough on his skates to use the boards to their full advantage.
Exactly you cant throw anyone at wing. Only guy i see is Boyle as a winger of the three centers we have.

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06-11-2011, 07:45 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by kaneone View Post
For the people who want a second line of Dubinsky-Stepan-Callahan, why don't we just move Dubinsky back to center and have Stepan on the wing?

No, thank you. Step should be at center. He has tremendous vision and playmaking ability, so center is his spot. Talk of moving him to the left wing is ridiculous.

Dubi, on the other hand, is perfect at LW. That's why he took a step forward this year - he was feeling much more comfortable at LW than C. Dub is a borderline 1-2 LW, but he's only a meh 2C.

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06-12-2011, 01:09 AM
  #43
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Does anyone else find it funny how everyone (including myself) already has Richards as a shoe in I hope we get him.

What were looking at now:

LW - Dubi, Wolski, Avery
C - Anisimov, Stepan, Boyle
RW - Gaborik, Callahan, Prust

UFA's, Christensen C/LW, Prospal C/LW, Frolov LW (), Fedotenko LW

Prospects trying to make camp who have a legit shot, LW -Kreider
C - Grachev, Lindberg
RW - Thomas, Fasth

Basically with what we have now in the NHL and returning (not UFA) we have a great core of forwards. We are missing 2 first line players. Obviously a C and LW. Of course BR would be our C. I think we should sign Gagne, put him on the second line with AA and Cally and move Dubi to first line LW. That way we have two top lines that should be able to do a lot better than last year and are more balanced. For arguement sake we dump WW and bring up a prospect to fill his place.

Dubi - BR - Gaborik
Gagne - AA - Cally
PROSPECT - Stepan - Boyle
Avery - ? hopefully Grachev - Prust .... Prust should be a staple as the 4th line RW. You can bring in another tough guy for X games, Avery, MZA, defensive specialist (maybe Madden), prospect. The 4th line can be played around with.

We have to remember to Tortorella changes lines constently too so this is all theory and looks good on paper but we have to see who gels and has chemistry.

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06-12-2011, 02:36 AM
  #44
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Assuming Brad does not sign, the line up will be:

Wolski - Step - Gabby
Dubi - AA - Cally
Hagelin/Grachev - Boyle - Zucca
Avery - Christ - Prust


It's not a very strong lineup. It's not even a playoff-level lineup. We'll probably make the playoffs on the strength of goaltending and defense, but forwards will continue to be a weakness.

With Brad:

Wolski - Brad - Gabby (I'd like to give Wolski a chance)
Dubi - Stepan - Cally
Boyle - AA - Zucca
Hagelin/Grachev - Christ - Prust

This lineup is much stronger with great second and third lines. Other than a bad hole at 1LW, the lineup would be strong, but not great. If we sign Brad and Wolski takes a significant step forward where he is playing at least on the level of a good 2LW, then the team could contend.

P.S. Assuming we don't sign anyone other than Brad, it looks like none of the regulars next year will be born in the 1970s. Everyone will be 80s or 90s. Then again, I wouldn't mind bringing back Prospal.

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06-12-2011, 01:32 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
No one builds a contender here. It is not in the business model of the owner. Rangers produce revenues by just getting in playoffs for now.
Therefore Dubinski is okay as 2LW/ 1LW
We will have Wolski as 3LW to replace Fedotenko.
The are FA that can fill 1LW position for us at not as huge expense as that for 1C. Prospal could be signed as 1LW

FA/ Prospal-Richards-Gaborik
Dubi-AA-Callahan - strong 2nd
Wolski-Boyle-Prust looks like balanced 3rd line.
Avery-Chistensen/ callup - callup
The business model is to make as much money as possible. Getting to the finals makes more money than a first round exit. Aside from ticket sales to the actual games it also gives fans a great amount of pride which they often express by buying NYR merchandise. Also, the enormous national and international fanbases that NYR has will be more likely to buy stuff making even more money. The owner doesn't know how to build a contender but I'm sure he'd love to get that extra cash even if having the best team in the NHL doesn't mean much to him.

Where's Stepan in the lineup?
I see either Richards or a FA LW coming . I'd be real surprised to see both.

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06-12-2011, 08:44 PM
  #46
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The business model is to make as much money as possible. Getting to the finals makes more money than a first round exit.
Thank you for clearing that up.
When I say "in business model" I say MUST BE DONE. Contending for SC carries a tremendous stress on entire organization. Many clubs were not able to recover after such and were missing the playoffs many years. Obviously 1st round exit is not what CV would want year after year, but they also do not want late 90ies when the club paid dearly for 1994 success with depleted farm and ruined team. We're not Detroit and Dolan knows that. Everybody does his best here and that best is not enough to build the contender. CV is okay with perennial playoff appearance and getting to conference finals perhaps. That is not SC contention.

Furthermore, I am okay with that too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Where's Stepan in the lineup?
My bad, I miss the guy. Don't really know where to put him, though. He is not going to bypass AA. and has to be groomed to become 2C. That is redundancy, so Torts may move him to wing on 1st to play off side on the left. I would be devastated if AA is traded, but not surprised. in this case Step will centre Dubi and Calli


Last edited by 94now: 06-12-2011 at 08:51 PM.
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06-13-2011, 07:51 AM
  #47
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So after further review, Simon Gagne (at the right price) looks like our best option
Which means we don't need to band aid it this year. We aren't winning the cup next year or likely even the year after. Continue to get rid of the huge contracts and contracts for useless players (done this time next year pending Redden's retirement). Re-sign the important guys who proved they can contribute Between Dubs, Wolski, grachev, hagelin, prust, kreider there's enough there to hold the line for two years. that top 3 spot does not look like it will be filled adequately but if we have the best 2nd 3rd and 4th lines, best goalie and best top 4 D night in night out you can throw a skate filled with crap onto the ice to play with Gabs and our 1C and still win.

If we can't sign Richards and gagne wants a 1 year 3-5 mil deal fine by me otherwise nooo way. Don't need to be worrying next year about who to buy out b/c Gagne's 5 mil cap hit is in the way, Redden's 7 mil summer hit is back, etc. You play well here like prospal you're welcomed back. You don't play well you don't come back like Frolov, McCabe, etc.

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06-13-2011, 07:56 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
No one builds a contender here. It is not in the business model of the owner. Rangers produce revenues by just getting in playoffs for now.
Therefore Dubinski is okay as 2LW/ 1LW
We will have Wolski as 3LW to replace Fedotenko.
The are FA that can fill 1LW position for us at not as huge expense as that for 1C. Prospal could be signed as 1LW

FA/ Prospal-Richards-Gaborik
Dubi-AA-Callahan - strong 2nd
Wolski-Boyle-Prust looks like balanced 3rd line.
Avery-Chistensen/ callup - callup
LOl where's Stepan? Why is there always some glaring hole in your posts. I don't mean to make fun but you always make me shake my head and laugh a little which I guess isn't a bad thing but I keep wondering if you do it on purpose.

And this is NOT an organization satisfied with failure. It IS an organization run by a failure though. Organizations that only want to make the playoffs do not go around signing 3-4 players at 7 mil each and keeping their RFA's. This is an organization geared towards winning that hasn't done it. They've failed but it's not for lack of trying.

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06-13-2011, 08:26 AM
  #49
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Dubi - Richards - Gaborik is a legit first line

and personally, id at least try boyle in dubi's place as the 2d line LW with AA and cally

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06-13-2011, 09:21 AM
  #50
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I would definitely say at this point in time, that center is more of a problem. If you can't win face offs, then you lose possession in the offensive zone. When you do that, you don't score as many goals because your not keeping the pressure on. Same goes in the Dzone. That's why they Boyle and Dru took most of the defensive zone face offs down the stretch. I think if they could get their face offs around 50%-55% we would be way better off. To many times last year we lost momentum due to losing face offs. ESPECIALLY on the power play. We were 25th in the league during the season for face offs, at 47.7%.

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