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Roster Thoughts and Offseason Speculation for the 2011-2012 Season II

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Old
06-10-2011, 03:16 PM
  #1
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Roster Thoughts and Offseason Speculation for the 2011-2012 Season II

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06-10-2011, 03:29 PM
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Kovalchuk

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06-10-2011, 03:38 PM
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The reason I think it would be silly to keep both up is they both need playing time. Loktionov is not a 4th line type of player. Schenn can pull it off, but does anyone really want him playing very limited minutes with players who aren't scorers? I sure don't.

If one plays wing, I can totally see keeping them both. If not, I'd rather see one in the minors for an injury call up. I would not want to see both Schenn and Loktionov starting at center next year. I may be in the minority on that, but they are both essentially rookies and center is a position that has great responsibility. One of the two should simply replace zus.

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06-10-2011, 03:58 PM
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Gentle Ben Kenobi
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Roster thoughts 2- electric boogaloo!

If we roll 4 lines, like Detroit, ice time isn't a huge concern.

I am on board

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06-10-2011, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAkings20 View Post
Kovalchuk
Do it Dean!

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06-10-2011, 04:47 PM
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What is it with the number 1,000 that throws the interwebs out of wack? I'm just curious because I go on the harmony central music forums and they have threads that go 10,000+ pages. Feel free to answer me in the OT thread...

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06-10-2011, 05:08 PM
  #7
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Assuming the Kings re-sign Doughty to a deal that averages $4.5M, re-sign both Simmonds and Richardson at $1M per, and re-sign both Martinez and Lewis at about $875K each, and promote Dwight King to the main roster, the Kings will have approximately $6.2M in cap space (assuming the salary cap will be $63M).

With the re-signings and promotion listed above, the Kings would carry a 22-man roster with a payroll of $56.74M. That roster consists of the following lineup:

Penner-Kopitar-Williams
Smyth-Stoll-Brown
Clifford-Richardson-Simmonds
King-Lewis-Parse/Westgarth

Mitchell-Doughty
Scuderi-Johnson
Martinez-Greene
Drewise

Quick-Bernier


If Schenn makes the roster, he'll carry a cap hit of $3.14M, reducing LA's cap space in half, leaving the team with a little over $3M in cap space. I don't think him or Loktionov are guaranteed a spot on the roster quite yet, but they are very close. With the amount of cap space left over after re-signing all of the team's significant RFA's, the Kings are not left with much cap space to bring in Brad Richards, especially if he is seeking the rumored $7M+ retirement contract.

Unless the Kings manage to move salary, I don't think anyone should get their hopes up of the Kings signing Brad Richards on July 1.

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06-10-2011, 05:25 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishhead View Post
The reason I think it would be silly to keep both up is they both need playing time. Loktionov is not a 4th line type of player. Schenn can pull it off, but does anyone really want him playing very limited minutes with players who aren't scorers? I sure don't.

If one plays wing, I can totally see keeping them both. If not, I'd rather see one in the minors for an injury call up. I would not want to see both Schenn and Loktionov starting at center next year. I may be in the minority on that, but they are both essentially rookies and center is a position that has great responsibility. One of the two should simply replace zus.
Schenn will be fine on the 4th line IMO. He'll get 2nd unit PP time, and the occasional bump into the top 9 because of injuries and Terry's constant line juggling. I don't see an issue at all.

If we're going to contend in 12-13, both players need establish themselves as NHL players this season.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SimmondsSensation View Post
This lineup makes the most sense IMO.

Also who do you think comes up from Manchester and plays D Muzzin? Voynov? Hickey?
For 11-12 it will most likely be Voynov if he's not traded. Him and Martinez will battle it out for the 6th spot. They could both be in the lineup at the same time if there's injuries.

Scuderi-Doughty
Mitchell-Johnson
Greene-Martinez
Voynov

For 12-13 I'd prefer to resign Mitchell for two more years instead of going to the pipeline. Muzzin & Forbort are the only one's who have shutdown dman potential, but it's unlikely they'll be able to fill Willie's shoes by then. Hickey, Voynov, Martinez, and DesLauriers all have similar skill sets. They'll all battle it out for top 6 spots, one or two of them will probably be traded.

12-13
Scuderi-Doughty
Mitchell-Johnson
Greene-Martinez/Voynov/Hickey/DesLauriers

13-14
Mitchell-Doughty
Forbort/Muzzin-Johnson
Greene-Martinez/Voynov/Hickey/DesLauriers

14-15 (Who knows? Probably way too far off to speculate)
Voynov-Doughty
Forbort-Johnson
Muzzin-Martinez
DesLauriers/Hickey

This is all just a guessing game though. It's incredibly hard to predict how prospects will develop. We certainly have a lot of promising guys though.

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06-10-2011, 05:27 PM
  #9
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Every time I see Schenn's cap number, I shake my head. How the heck did that happen? I know it includes a bunch of incentives he probably won't hit but purely from a cap management standpoint, it sure seems like someone screwed up big time.

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06-10-2011, 05:29 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
What is it with the number 1,000 that throws the interwebs out of wack? I'm just curious because I go on the harmony central music forums and they have threads that go 10,000+ pages. Feel free to answer me in the OT thread...
It's like that button in the Darma Cave on Lost. You have to push it or something really bad happens.

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06-10-2011, 05:31 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Penner-Kopitar-Williams
Smyth-Stoll-Brown
Clifford-Richardson-Simmonds
King-Lewis-Parse/Westgarth
Looking at that lineup, I've got to assume that one of AL/BS is going to make the team. I don't think DL has any intention of going into the season with Richie as one of top 3 centers.

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06-10-2011, 05:33 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quattro View Post
Every time I see Schenn's cap number, I shake my head. How the heck did that happen? I know it includes a bunch of incentives he probably won't hit but purely from a cap management standpoint, it sure seems like someone screwed up big time.
Because it's the last year of the CBA all of the bonus money counts against the cap with no cushion. I don't know how to calculate the particulars, but that's it in a nutshell. Schenn was the #5 overall pick, he wasn't going to sign for much less than that.

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06-10-2011, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Quattro View Post
Every time I see Schenn's cap number, I shake my head. How the heck did that happen? I know it includes a bunch of incentives he probably won't hit but purely from a cap management standpoint, it sure seems like someone screwed up big time.
My understanding:

It's a standard contract for a top 5 pick. Usually the bonuses don't count against the CAP unless they're actually paid/achieved. That's why there's a bonus cushion.

Because the CBA expires after this season, there is no cushion, so all potential bonuses, whether paid or not, will count against the salary CAP.

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06-10-2011, 05:50 PM
  #14
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Because it's the last year of the CBA all of the bonus money counts against the cap with no cushion. I don't know how to calculate the particulars, but that's it in a nutshell. Schenn was the #5 overall pick, he wasn't going to sign for much less than that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
My understanding:

It's a standard contract for a top 5 pick. Usually the bonuses don't count against the CAP unless they're actually paid/achieved. That's why there's a bonus cushion.

Because the CBA expires after this season, there is no cushion, so all potential bonuses, whether paid or not, will count against the salary CAP.
OK - that makes more sense. Didn't know about the last year of the CBA thing.

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06-10-2011, 06:38 PM
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OK - that makes more sense. Didn't know about the last year of the CBA thing.
The only other point I would make is that every player selected from 1-5 get pretty much the exact same contract with the exact same cap hit. Doughty's, Stamkos', Hedman's, Toews', Kane's, Gubrandson's, Hall's, Seguin's (etc) cap hit is all the same.

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06-10-2011, 07:10 PM
  #16
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Schenn will be fine on the 4th line IMO. He'll get 2nd unit PP time, and the occasional bump into the top 9 because of injuries and Terry's constant line juggling. I don't see an issue at all.

If we're going to contend in 12-13, both players need establish themselves as NHL players this season.
Schenn can probably play the 4th line, but do we want someone in that position getting paid over 3M for limited minutes? If Schenn makes the team, it's on an offensive line. He's projected as a future #2 and that's where he should start. He showed enough last year that he won't need to be eased in. We have guys to play the #4 center role who are very capable. Where does that leave Loktionov? He's not going to be a shut-down or energy guy, he has to play with creative players to be effective.

I hate to say it, but I don't see a spot for Lokti on this team as a center. Wing, sure, and if I were him I would be working my tail off this summer to adjust to that position. Kopitar is #1 and Schenn is expected to be #2.

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06-10-2011, 08:47 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishhead View Post
Schenn can probably play the 4th line, but do we want someone in that position getting paid over 3M for limited minutes? If Schenn makes the team, it's on an offensive line. He's projected as a future #2 and that's where he should start. He showed enough last year that he won't need to be eased in. We have guys to play the #4 center role who are very capable. Where does that leave Loktionov? He's not going to be a shut-down or energy guy, he has to play with creative players to be effective.
Schenn's base salary is $900,000, it is his cap hit that is $3.14 million. He won't be making any of his bonuses, so AEG won't care about him on the 4th line getting 4th line minutes + PP time. I think 4th line in the NHL is better for Schenn than the 1st line in the AHL.

http://www.capgeek.com/players/display.php?id=1624

Loktionov is more of a #2 center than Schenn, expecially at this stage of development. I think both will start in LA, but Schenn may end up in Manchester before December. Neither should play on the wing next season, especially Loktionov. He is underated as a defensive forward, he's like Datsyuk in many ways. He's not going to make the big hit or dig in the corners with his strenght, but he will pick players pockets all game.

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06-11-2011, 12:26 AM
  #18
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Schenn's base salary is $900,000, it is his cap hit that is $3.14 million. He won't be making any of his bonuses, so AEG won't care about him on the 4th line getting 4th line minutes + PP time. I think 4th line in the NHL is better for Schenn than the 1st line in the AHL.

http://www.capgeek.com/players/display.php?id=1624

Loktionov is more of a #2 center than Schenn, expecially at this stage of development. I think both will start in LA, but Schenn may end up in Manchester before December. Neither should play on the wing next season, especially Loktionov. He is underated as a defensive forward, he's like Datsyuk in many ways. He's not going to make the big hit or dig in the corners with his strenght, but he will pick players pockets all game.
I was thinking more of the cap hit in terms of additional help, which we still need. I didn't know that his salary was that cheap though, great info!

Don't get me wrong, I want nothing more than Lokti to succeed here. He is really going to have to stand out in camp to stick down the middle, IMO. His play on defense wasn't bad, but as I said he's not a shutdown guy. Lewis fits that bill the best, but if Lokti and Schenn are at center, where does that leave Stoll? He's played wing before but he's so solid at the dot and down the middle. A couple years ago I would have been fine with 2 rookie centers, but now there are expectations. A step backwards is not acceptable this year so there is pressure to succeed. That inexperience down the middle would make me nervous.

One thing that I am praying for is that one of our young guys steps up this year on faceoffs. Right now, Richardson is our 2nd best face-off guy. Richie is maybe average to above average on draws, and that worries me for those end-of-game situations.

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06-11-2011, 09:25 AM
  #19
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Today there is an interwiew with Kopitar regarding his recovery progress:

http://www.rtvslo.si/sport/hokej/kop...hodnost/259621

In short: according to his word he is cca. 2 weeks ahead of his recovery schedule and he'll be in full training on ice at the end of July, beggining of August. He wasn't allowed to step on his injured leeg for full two months but now he is already doing practise for strenghtening his ankle.

it looks, he is in Slovenia right now, because he organised charity golf and played also.

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06-11-2011, 10:50 AM
  #20
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
For 11-12 it will most likely be Voynov if he's not traded. Him and Martinez will battle it out for the 6th spot. They could both be in the lineup at the same time if there's injuries.

I'd prefer to resign Mitchell for two more years instead of going to the pipeline. Muzzin & Forbort are the only one's who have shutdown dman potential, but it's unlikely they'll be able to fill Willie's shoes by then. Hickey, Voynov, Martinez, and DesLauriers all have similar skill sets. They'll all battle it out for top 6 spots, one or two of them will probably be traded.

12-13
Scuderi-Doughty
Mitchell-Johnson
Greene-Martinez/Voynov/Hickey/DesLauriers

13-14
Mitchell-Doughty
Forbort/Muzzin-Johnson
Greene-Martinez/Voynov/Hickey/DesLauriers

14-15 (Who knows? Probably way too far off to speculate)
Voynov-Doughty
Forbort-Johnson
Muzzin-Martinez
DesLauriers/Hickey

This is all just a guessing game though. It's incredibly hard to predict how prospects will develop. We certainly have a lot of promising guys though.
Just had a couple of opinions on this.

I disagree with your assessment on Deslauriers having a similar skill set with Hickey, Martinez or Voynov and not just in their potential but in their entirety of their games. Deslauriers is more like a blending of Johnson and Mitchell with a little Pronger thrown in. His skating is going to keep him in an elite class of skaters. His skating imo is like DD8 if he were faster and his skating is what I would say sets him apart from his peers.

His D first game and positional play are where I see ND making his impact on our team. His speed/reaction time allow him to remain in position even when he drifts with the play. Where Voynov has exceptional offencive game and then is a solid player in most other areas ND is more of the complete player.

Of course finally ND is a top notch fighter who can scrap with the best of them making his game like Mitchell's in that he can and will scrap when need arises.

Muzzin is a #4 Dman in the same mold as Green (even in their personalities imo) only with more O skill but will likely play a role better suited to being a shut down type. As much as I dig A Marts game I would say that he is the lesser skilled of the kids but plays an overall style of game that separates him from his peers who with some minor exceptions are more suited to playing a specialized type fo game.

To me I see one of our vets being moved to make room for our less expensive but well talented kids on D sooner rather than later. Forbort will be a good one and having him come to the team in 3 years seems about right.

Your 14/15 scenario I see happening by 13/14 with the exception being that Deslauriers will be in the mix before Forbort. I can't see us having more than 1 of our 3 current vets on D within the next two season for certain imo.

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Old
06-12-2011, 03:38 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Assuming the Kings re-sign Doughty to a deal that averages $4.5M, re-sign both Simmonds and Richardson at $1M per, and re-sign both Martinez and Lewis at about $875K each, and promote Dwight King to the main roster, the Kings will have approximately $6.2M in cap space (assuming the salary cap will be $63M).

With the re-signings and promotion listed above, the Kings would carry a 22-man roster with a payroll of $56.74M. That roster consists of the following lineup:

Penner-Kopitar-Williams
Smyth-Stoll-Brown
Clifford-Richardson-Simmonds
King-Lewis-Parse/Westgarth

Mitchell-Doughty
Scuderi-Johnson
Martinez-Greene
Drewise

Quick-Bernier


If Schenn makes the roster, he'll carry a cap hit of $3.14M, reducing LA's cap space in half, leaving the team with a little over $3M in cap space. I don't think him or Loktionov are guaranteed a spot on the roster quite yet, but they are very close. With the amount of cap space left over after re-signing all of the team's significant RFA's, the Kings are not left with much cap space to bring in Brad Richards, especially if he is seeking the rumored $7M+ retirement contract.

Unless the Kings manage to move salary, I don't think anyone should get their hopes up of the Kings signing Brad Richards on July 1.

Dwight King? Really? I see Richardson shifting down to the 4th line with Parse and Westy and Loktionov making the big club over Schenn and taking the #3 center spot.

If anyone from Manchester makes the team it will be Bud Holloway. A lot of speculated if the Kings would bring him up and Hammond confirmed the Kings had internal discussions regarding him. He had a 28 goal season.

King did nothing, he didn't fight, hit or score. He was practically invisible.

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06-12-2011, 06:49 AM
  #22
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The only other point I would make is that every player selected from 1-5 get pretty much the exact same contract with the exact same cap hit. Doughty's, Stamkos', Hedman's, Toews', Kane's, Gubrandson's, Hall's, Seguin's (etc) cap hit is all the same.
Hickey at four says it ain't so.

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06-12-2011, 07:33 AM
  #23
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If anyone from Manchester makes the team it will be Bud Holloway. A lot of speculated if the Kings would bring him up and Hammond confirmed the Kings had internal discussions regarding him. He had a 28 goal season.

King did nothing, he didn't fight, hit or score. He was practically invisible.
Bud Holloway
Regular season 78 GP, 28+33=61, 58 PIM, 0.78 pt/G
Playoffs 7 GP, 4+7=11, 10 PIM

Dwight King
Regular season 72 GP, 24+28=52, 58 PIM, 0.72 pt/G
Playoffs 7 GP, 2+3=5, 2 PIM

What you mean, that Dwight King didn't score? Team's third best scorer during regular season and 4th best in the playoffs?

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06-12-2011, 10:22 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Vino View Post
Bud Holloway
Regular season 78 GP, 28+33=61, 58 PIM, 0.78 pt/G
Playoffs 7 GP, 4+7=11, 10 PIM

Dwight King
Regular season 72 GP, 24+28=52, 58 PIM, 0.72 pt/G
Playoffs 7 GP, 2+3=5, 2 PIM

What you mean, that Dwight King didn't score? Team's third best scorer during regular season and 4th best in the playoffs?
I think he's talking about King's 6 game stint in LA.

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06-12-2011, 10:56 AM
  #25
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I think he's talking about King's 6 game stint in LA.
Was just about to say the same thing.

For all we know, Holloway could be the same way.

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