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Which team will you take? (Canadiens or Lightning)

View Poll Results: Which
Montreal Canadiens 246 72.35%
Montreal Lightning 94 27.65%
Voters: 340. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-13-2011, 10:00 PM
  #276
la25ecoupe
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Anyone had a change of mind after the season?

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06-13-2011, 10:12 PM
  #277
cap10bfl
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team and prospects: MTL
GM: dont like him but cant complain about PG and his accomplishments so MTL
coach: Boucher is a no brainer

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06-14-2011, 06:35 AM
  #278
Subban76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by la25ecoupe View Post
Anyone had a change of mind after the season?
Nope, Habs easy. The season actually reinforced my preference. TB is an aging team except for Stamkos. Their future is not that bright.

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06-14-2011, 06:41 AM
  #279
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cap10bfl View Post
team and prospects: MTL
GM: dont like him but cant complain about PG and his accomplishments so MTL
coach: Boucher is a no brainer
Boucher didn't do anything more than whoever their coach was last year. Ride his star players, they only started winning and made the playoffs after adding Roloson, that was the major change from 09-10.

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06-14-2011, 07:46 AM
  #280
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cap10bfl View Post
team and prospects: MTL
GM: dont like him but cant complain about PG and his accomplishments so MTL
coach: Boucher is a no brainer
You're picking PG because you "can't complain"? Is that really good enough? Yzerman is one of the three finalists for GM of the year this year, and PG isn't, so I think that is another category that should be a "no brainer".

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06-14-2011, 07:56 AM
  #281
strutsboa
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I might to biased to give an opinion, but there are actually very few teams I would exchange with. I guess it's mostly because I like the players so much, but I really like our future.

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06-14-2011, 08:57 AM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
You're picking PG because you "can't complain"? Is that really good enough? Yzerman is one of the three finalists for GM of the year this year, and PG isn't, so I think that is another category that should be a "no brainer".
What genius moves did he make? He added Roloson. The core was 95% made up before he got there...those are popularity contests to say the least.

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06-14-2011, 09:02 AM
  #283
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
What genius moves did he make? He added Roloson. The core was 95% made up before he got there...those are popularity contests to say the least.
Hiring Guy Boucher. Do you really need more than that? Kubina, Rolosson, and Brewer played pretty big parts for the team. Oh, and Gagne wasn't a bad move (he gave them the same level of production in the regular season that we got from Cammalleri, contributed decently in the playoffs, and Yzerman didn't have to give up any pieces to add that production), but I know you'll jump all over that one, so go ahead.

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06-14-2011, 09:06 AM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Hiring Guy Boucher. Do you really need more than that? Kubina, Rolosson, and Brewer played pretty big parts for the team. Oh, and Gagne wasn't a bad move, but I know you'll jump all over that one, so go ahead.
Boucher, Bergenheim, Roloson, Brewer, Gagne, Moore.

All excellent moves.

Would MUCH rather have Yzerman/Boucher than Gauthier/Martin.

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06-14-2011, 09:09 AM
  #285
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nittany View Post
Boucher, Bergenheim, Roloson, Brewer, Gagne, Moore.

All excellent moves.

Would MUCH rather have Yzerman/Boucher than Gauthier/Martin.
Not to mention those two guys. Seriously, how inspired does the Bergenheim acquisition look after this post season? Is all this enough for you CP?

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06-14-2011, 09:12 AM
  #286
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Just based on the rosters?

I definitely take Montreal. The young established stud goalie >>>>>>> what TB has going on at forward. The Canadiens are a stud #1 D away from being where the Bruins are right now, and the Bolts are a stud goalie and a young stud #1 D.

The least important, most heavily overrated position to have great talent at is forward. Sure a great center is a big difference maker, but a great #1 D is an even bigger one, and a great goaltender can change the fate of the franchise.

I would trade the entire Lightning first line to have a goalie like Price backing up what was left.

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06-14-2011, 09:13 AM
  #287
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Hiring Guy Boucher. Do you really need more than that? Kubina, Rolosson, and Brewer played pretty big parts for the team. Oh, and Gagne wasn't a bad move (he gave them the same level of production in the regular season that we got from Cammalleri, contributed decently in the playoffs, and Yzerman didn't have to give up any pieces to add that production), but I know you'll jump all over that one, so go ahead.
Gagne was a salary dump, most teams with cap room didn't have the budget to take him and those with the budget didn't have the cap room. He was a decent addition but didn't play up to his salary/cap hit.

Kubina was an ok addition...3.8 mil for 23 points and average defense is hadrdly a great signing...6'4" version of Spacek.

Brewer was a solid addition but they paid more for him thgan we paid for Wisniewski.

The TB success is mostly related to guys that were there before Boucher/Yzerman arrived...St.Louis Stamkos Lecavalier etc

Playing Pittsburgh minus Crosby and Malkin in round 1 instead of Boston also helped their "run".

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06-14-2011, 09:21 AM
  #288
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Gagne was a salary dump, most teams with cap room didn't have the budget to take him and those with the budget didn't have the cap room. He was a decent addition but didn't play up to his salary/cap hit.

Kubina was an ok addition...3.8 mil for 23 points and average defense is hadrdly a great signing...6'4" version of Spacek.

Brewer was a solid addition but they paid more for him thgan we paid for Wisniewski.

The TB success is mostly related to guys that were there before Boucher/Yzerman arrived...St.Louis Stamkos Lecavalier etc

Playing Pittsburgh minus Crosby and Malkin in round 1 instead of Boston also helped their "run".
Downplaying the contributions of those guys aside for the moment (who cares what any of their cap hits were, as long as the team was under the cap... isn't that the "we have Gomez and it ain't that bad" mantra?), you then add in Bergenheim, who was the leading goal scorer in the playoffs after round 2, I believe. And add Moore, who was one of their most consistent forwards throughout the playoffs, etc, etc...

Yeah, Yzerman did a way better job than you're giving him credit for. Gagne, Moore, Bergenheim, and Brewer didn't start the year with the Lightning, and ended up the 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th leading point getters for them in the playoffs. Basically, Yzerman added almost the entirety of their playoff secondary scoring, the importance of which is only lost on the foolish.

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06-14-2011, 10:48 AM
  #289
Ollie Williams
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Downplaying the contributions of those guys aside for the moment (who cares what any of their cap hits were, as long as the team was under the cap... isn't that the "we have Gomez and it ain't that bad" mantra?), you then add in Bergenheim, who was the leading goal scorer in the playoffs after round 2, I believe. And add Moore, who was one of their most consistent forwards throughout the playoffs, etc, etc...

Yeah, Yzerman did a way better job than you're giving him credit for. Gagne, Moore, Bergenheim, and Brewer didn't start the year with the Lightning, and ended up the 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th leading point getters for them in the playoffs. Basically, Yzerman added almost the entirety of their playoff secondary scoring, the importance of which is only lost on the foolish.
I think I would also add Roloson to the list.

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06-14-2011, 10:58 AM
  #290
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I take Montreal.

I prefer our youth than TB's youth mostly because of how the talent is distributed. From all I've seen I have more confidence in Subban than Hedman. St-Louis won't be able to play forever and will likely slow down pretty soon and once he's gone you'll see that their forward group will not be all that impressive. Stamkos is a beast, but teams with 1-2 very good forwards are plenty in the NHL and many can't really get anywhere.

If Markov comes back healthy, our D-core as a whole is superior to theirs by a good margin. So will be our goalie (they can't rely on 42 y.o. Roloson for very long, and they have nobody in their system of Price's caliber...).

I much prefer having top goalie + top D pairing and distributed scoring forward than having top forward and distributed talent in your D.

I prefer Boucher to JM, sure. Yzerman to PG? For some it seems like a very clear thing, but not to me. The situation they've been put in is so different, hard to compare. I think that PG is actually making the team progress pretty well and has refurnished our prospect pool pretty well (well now it might seem thin but it's because a lot of them actually jumped in the big league). Yzerman did some nice move but also ended up in a team with lots of young top picks + tons of cap space. Did he make good choices, sure, but I don't really think he proved all that much yet. To me this position is not that important unless you're talking about genius for the ages vs total idiot. It's not like you're building teams from scratch, Montreal already has a young core set in place and PG seems decent at finding players to put around it, so I don't think his role currently is as crucial as say Toronto or Florida's GM. Or TB for that matter.

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06-14-2011, 01:27 PM
  #291
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie Williams View Post
I think I would also add Roloson to the list.
I did earlier, but if we're adding players, let's also add MAB.

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Old
06-14-2011, 03:29 PM
  #292
Habs 4 Life
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Besides Stamkos and St. Louis I don't want any player from the Bolts on the Habs, well maybe Hedman but that's about it

Price and Subban are more important to a team then a player like Stamkos

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06-14-2011, 04:19 PM
  #293
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I prefer the lighning cuz good prospect in Stamkos and the sweden defenseman than I forget his... oh Hedman LOL

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06-14-2011, 04:24 PM
  #294
Miller Time
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players aside, I'd MUCH rather have Yzerman/Boucher running the team than PG/Martin...

as a fan, it's hard to ignore the emotional connection I feel to some of our key guys, an emotional reaction that doesn't exist when thinking of TB players.

so i'll break it down by position:

C- Lecavalier- Stamkos- Moore- Thompson/Tyrell
C- Plekanec- Gomez- Eller- DD/Halpern

big advantage TB
As much as I like Pleks and as optimistic as I am about Eller, the lightning have 2 guys who are/can be top 5-10 centres in the league.

RW- Gionta- Kost- Darche- Pyatt
RW- St.Louis- Purcell- Downie- Hall

big advantage TB
again, not even close now or in the next few seasons... especially if Purcell is more than a 1-season wonder.

LW- Cammalleri- MaxPac- Pouliot- Moen
LW- Gagne- Malone- Bergenheim

small advantage Mtl
though it was surprising to see that Gagne/Cammalleri had almost identical production this year (52pts/78games for gagne vs 57pts/74games for cammy). I, like most hope-believe that MaxPac will develop into a higher scoring version of Malone, and Pouliot/Bergenheim is a toss-up looking to next season.

D- Hedman- Brewer- Ohlund- Kubina- Clark- Bergeron/Lundin/Jones
D- Subban- Markov- Hamrlik- Wisniewski- Gorges- Gill/Spacek/Weber

advantage Mtl
healthy, Mtl's d is better (even much better), though remains to be seen who will be re-signed for both teams. With aging vets and one premium young piece for both squads to build around, future will be more about the GM's skill than it will be about current roster players.

G- Price
G- Rolosson/Smith

big advantage Mtl
while Rolosson was very good for them, he's at the end of his career whereas Carey is just getting started.


position by position, the edge goes to the lightning relatively easily. better high end skill players and better forward depth. despite that, I might still pick the habs group on the grounds that having a stud young goaltender and young #1dman are the best possible building blocks to work from (habs have both, TB only has 1), but that is easily offset by having quality coaching/management...
it may have only been 1 season, but both Yzerman/Boucher showed that they are even better than the hype.
it's not to say that PG/Martin are bad, or even not good enough, but neither are the "best" or even in the group to be considered, whereas Yzerman/Boucher are firmly in that discussion.

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Old
06-14-2011, 07:39 PM
  #295
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Well thought out and reasoned MT. One of the best "comparative analyses" in the thread to date, and relatively brief/to the point.

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06-14-2011, 10:16 PM
  #296
Lafleurs Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by husamus156 View Post
excluding Stamkos and hedman, i have no love to this team
in no way id change the team
Flip it around and exclude Price and Subban...

And no love for Martin St. Louis? He is one of the best offensive players in the game.

I love Price and Subban though. Interesting topic.

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