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Islanders 5th Overall in play

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Old
06-13-2011, 10:59 PM
  #76
Whitesnake
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We do not have ANYTHING to be in the top 5 spot. Unless you want to give Price or Subban. Still interested? Anything else even Leblanc, Kristo or Tinordi will not make them change their mind. And if by any chance they'd do it for Cammy....do you seriously believe that THIS Habs team would consider it? We are talking about the Montreal Canadiens here....

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06-13-2011, 11:23 PM
  #77
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We should definitely look to trade with the NYI if they don't ask for the moon. First because they lose their trades more often then not (can we interest you with a Spacek and a Gomez? Two key players well worth the no5 overall! ). Second because we might get a good player at that position this year, and adding another budding star to our current group of young players would make us a clear contender in 3-4 years.

The reality is however that we probably don't have what NYI is looking for or would be unwilling to give it. They want help to make the playoffs, most likely young vets like Plekanec and Cammalleri would interest them but no way we trade them for a guy that may or may not be as good as them in 5 years. Obviously Price and Subban are completely untouchable. Eller and Pacioretty almost are and aren't what they are looking for. Pouliot won't make them a playoff team and likely has little value.

I think high picks are overvalued. People saying we should trade Plekanec for that pick aren't thinking about this very thoroughly.

Kostitsyn would definetely help them but we would have to add a lot to make him enticing, especially since he's on a 1yr contract and might not have a great reputation (altho this might be a HFboard thing, nobody wants him since Habs fans always offer him in trades as he's one of the more expandable and inconsistent forwards on the team). It would pain me to see Gorges go but he's another one that could help them and that we could afford to trade.

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06-13-2011, 11:31 PM
  #78
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A rebuilding team will give more than us

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06-14-2011, 12:37 AM
  #79
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Management doesn't have the balls.

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06-14-2011, 12:55 AM
  #80
Kimota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Deep draft, are teams going to be willing to trade the assets to get those picks?

If Huberdeau or Couturier is still there at #5, does Montreal make an offer to the Isles for that pick to get the potential Quebec Star???
The two guys at play in the Habs if I were either teams would be Plek and Cammy. Now Huberdeau won't be there at #5 and as such if I want to get him I would offer Plek. At #5 that's where Couturier may be available and Cammy would be the guy to use for a trade. But I wouldn't get rid of Plek for Couturier.

Plek for Huberdeau

Cammy for Couturier

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06-14-2011, 02:01 AM
  #81
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Exactly, with Cammy for the #5 pick, wich let's say is Couturier, we get the second line center that we need, and Gomez can be a third line center after 2 or 3 years of development. I swear Couturier is becoming severly underated on this board he's gonna be really good in 2-3 years, all he needs are wingers to complete his playmaking abilities. Imagine a line with Leblanc-Couturier-Pacioretty.

We also have Eller and Plekanec still. I'm not worried about wingers, we have a few in our system developing but extremely good playmaking centers with size has always been the problem for the habs. I'd be more relieved with Couturier than Macneill. We can draft a winger with our 17th pick, someone like Jensen.

Getting rid of Cammalleri would suck at first but for Couturier, I would do it. He's more valuable longterm.

Huberdeau is gonna be drafted before, so i'm not thinking about it.

Also, if both guys are drafter, Landeskog would be a perfect addition!


Last edited by MrRoundtree: 06-14-2011 at 02:25 AM.
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Old
06-14-2011, 06:38 AM
  #82
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
What makes you think Richards has any desire whatsoever to come to Montreal when he can write his own ticket? Besides, he's going to get Gomez money.
If he gets a Gomez contract...7+ cap hit over 5-7 years, then whoever gets him will end up regretting it. Richards is a good player, but not a great one and he's probably going to start declining in the next few years. If Sather gets him he's sure to be a bust.

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Originally Posted by Prairie Habs View Post
If Siemens is available at 8 I would make a huge push for him. I see him play all the time in Saskatoon and he would make a great one two punch with PK plus he has good size (6'3 200 with plenty of room to fill out).
Siemens is not even worth a top 10 pick let alone going ahead of Strome Couturier Murphy or Hamilton. Red Line has him at #24 and some teams don't even have him in round 1, he is a big wild card. He's a solid stay at home d-man but the "WHL effect" probably overrates him much like Teubert. We can probably draft a better player than him at #17.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Deep draft, are teams going to be willing to trade the assets to get those picks?

If Huberdeau or Couturier is still there at #5, does Montreal make an offer to the Isles for that pick to get the potential Quebec Star???


Couturier isn't a Quebecer, he was born in Arizona, also grew up in Wisconsin, Germany and New Brunswick where he currently resides.

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Old
06-14-2011, 06:39 AM
  #83
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Management doesn't have the balls.
Yeah it's not like they would have the balls to trade their playoff hero last year, they kept Halak and traded golden boy Price...wait a minute...

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06-14-2011, 08:41 AM
  #84
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The only player I'd be interested in is Landeskog, he's the perfect player for our team and he's NHL ready.

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06-14-2011, 09:17 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Yeah it's not like they would have the balls to trade their playoff hero last year, they kept Halak and traded golden boy Price...wait a minute...
No, they don't make big moves on draft day ... ie.. trade up with a blockbuster deal. When was the last time they swung a blockbuster deal on draft day, to acquire a top pick?

BTW, trading Halak never took balls, they had to do it.

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Old
06-14-2011, 10:09 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Pierre Jr View Post
Ha! I wish! 5.272M a year until he's 37. That's actually not that bad a deal. I don't see him being the kind of player that will ever devolve into an average player. As i said before, i would offer Eller and our 2011 and 2012 first rounders, or Eller, Weber, and this years first rounder. Maybe Leblanc could be a trading piece too. All i know is that Carter would solve a lot of our problems--i.e. he could be a guy to turn Cammy into the 40 goal guy we all know he can be, or do the same for Patches.

Interesting article by Hindle about why next year Gomez's contract could be much simpler and cheaper to buy out than this year, and not just because his salary goes down:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Steve...tion/139/36356

Gotta say this Hindle guy is really on the ball.

I have actually thought this to be strategy the Habs were planning on using with Gomez, assuming he did not produce to an acceptable level, ever since Mr. Larry Brooks threw the strong possibility of the new CBA having another "compliance buyout" period in an article or blog of his about 2 years ago. In fact, it would not surprise me if Glenn Sather saw this coming when he drew up the Gomez contract in the first place.

The more interesting part of the article, for me, however is the following:
Quote:
Gomez, acquired two summers ago as a centerpiece to the Habs most recent rebuild, hasn't fared as well as most would have hoped, yet his presence has undeniably allowed Montreal to lure in more talent. And so the trade-off of the underachieving Gomez has been the additions of both Brian Gionta and Michael Cammalleri, both of which have certainly had more of an on-ice impact than the Canadiens current #11.
He may be a lightening rod and a severe underachiever, but without him, our team probably would missed the playoffs the last two years, and who knows what the development of Pacioretty (who would have been playing in the NHL, even though he was not ready) and Subban (cause I doubt Hal Gill comes here either).

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Old
06-14-2011, 10:16 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa Bear View Post


He may be a lightening rod and a severe underachiever, but without him, our team probably would missed the playoffs the last two years, and who knows what the development of Pacioretty (who would have been playing in the NHL, even though he was not ready) and Subban (cause I doubt Hal Gill comes here either).
He's such a superstar that every other player wants to be on the same line with him.

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Old
06-14-2011, 10:16 AM
  #88
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs View Post
No, they don't make big moves on draft day ... ie.. trade up with a blockbuster deal. When was the last time they swung a blockbuster deal on draft day, to acquire a top pick?

BTW, trading Halak never took balls, they had to do it.
They didn't have to trade Halak they could have traded Price and the media and fans would have been happier(at that time).

They moved up to draft Tinordi last year. When is the last time a team moved up from past 16 to the top 3-5 in the draft? Vancouver grabbing the Sedins is the last time I can recall and that was like 10-12 years ago. It would be harder to do now because the cap makes picks more valuable than they were pre cap...just look at how few 1st rounders get traded at the deadline compared to 8-10 years ago.

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Old
06-14-2011, 10:49 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by juve View Post
He's such a superstar that every other player wants to be on the same line with him.
Well now and then (summer of 2009) are two different things. You think Cammy and Gionta signed in Montreal to play with 37 point Pleckanec?

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Old
06-14-2011, 10:52 AM
  #90
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At the 5th spot, give me Ryan Murphy. Great skater, passer, extremely smart, and still growing. Absolute bullet from the point.

The reason our offense struggled so much at times, was plain ol' lousy passing. Forwards were guilty of it, but the D was worse.

Murphy is a guy who can lug it and set things up, like a great point guard in basketball, or, he'll make the beautiful first pass to put the offensive engine in high gear.

Murphy is - or soon will be - better than Subban at this art.

It is painful to watch our small forwards coasting through the neutral zone, wondering what's up, what the hell can be accomplished. Opponents coasting backwards, straddling the blueline, forcing our small club to give it up, with a dump-in.

They can't be at their best under those circumstances.

Our powerplay, with Subban and Murphy at the points, would be a total nightmare for opponents.

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Old
06-14-2011, 10:53 AM
  #91
juve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa Bear View Post
Well now and then (summer of 2009) are two different things.
Sorry to break it you but he was never a superstar.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa Bear View Post
You think Cammy and Gionta signed in Montreal to play with 37 point Pleckanec?
I'm pretty sure the dollar bill were too great to turn down.

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Old
06-14-2011, 11:04 AM
  #92
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Well, if we deal Cammy and Pleks for top picks this year, at least we wont have to trade anyone next year for a top five pick.

LOL. Serusly.

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Old
06-14-2011, 11:21 AM
  #93
LyleOdelein
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I know people tend to lose their minds about draft picks on here, but the suggestions of trading Cammy or Pleks straight up for the 5th overall pick is ridiculous. You'd figure that fans of the team that employs Benoit Pouliot would realize that even highly touted top-5 picks have a fair amount of risk attached to them.

It has nothing to do with balls or guts, no GM would trade an established, top line NHL player who's signed long term and producing reasonable well for a pick that won't garner you an elite prospect (RNH is the only guy that seems to be close to that). If for some reason, PG decided to trade either of those guys to get younger (which he won't), he would target a more developed prospect that was more of a sure thing.

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06-14-2011, 11:22 AM
  #94
Richiebottles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleOdelein View Post
I know people tend to lose their minds about draft picks on here, but the suggestions of trading Cammy or Pleks straight up for the 5th overall pick is ridiculous. You'd figure that fans of the team that employs Benoit Pouliot would realize that even highly touted top-5 picks have a fair amount of risk attached to them.

It has nothing to do with balls or guts, no GM would trade an established, top line NHL player who's signed long term and producing reasonable well for a pick that won't garner you an elite prospect (RNH is the only guy that seems to be close to that). If for some reason, PG decided to trade either of those guys to get younger (which he won't), he would target a more developed prospect that was more of a sure thing.
Phil Kessel says Hey.

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Old
06-14-2011, 11:35 AM
  #95
LyleOdelein
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Originally Posted by Richiebottles View Post
Phil Kessel says Hey.
I don't know which argument you're supporting with that eloquent comment, so I'll address both.

If you don't know why this is a terrible example of a trade to counter my point with, it's not worth explaining the differences between trading Plekanec for 5th overall this year and the Kessel trade to you.

If you're implying that Kessel was 5th overall, so the Habs are guaranteed to get a Kessel caliber player at that spot this year, I would beg to differ.

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06-14-2011, 11:37 AM
  #96
Richiebottles
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Originally Posted by LyleOdelein View Post
I don't know which argument you're supporting with that eloquent comment, so I'll address both.

If you don't know why this is a terrible example of a trade to counter my point with, it's not worth explaining the differences between trading Plekanec for 5th overall this year and the Kessel trade to you.

If you're implying that Kessel was 5th overall, so the Habs are guaranteed to get a Kessel caliber player at that spot this year, I would beg to differ.
The Ruins Traded Kessel for 2 1rst picks. In the top 10 range when they were cup contenders. That is what i mean.

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Old
06-14-2011, 11:41 AM
  #97
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lol at people who think we have the assets to obtain that pick.

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Old
06-14-2011, 11:50 AM
  #98
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While the odds are good a top 5 pick will pan out, there are numerous examples of players who will never be Cammalleri. Svitov, Chistov come to mind. Wheeler and Upshall (ok...so he was #6) will probably never be Cammalleris either.The more recent drafts are still too early to tell, Kyle Turris though....I don't think so.

Everyone says we don't have the assets to trade for #1...then #5...it would be interesting to see what we would need to add to the #17 pick to get #8 if Couturier is still there. It probably wouldn't get done, but who knows. People are pessimistic here....they'd probably say we don't have the assets to move up to #14 from #17.

Andrei might have some value, he's an almost 30 goal scorer...AK, Weber, #17? That would be for #8 though.....Flame away.

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Old
06-14-2011, 12:06 PM
  #99
LyleOdelein
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Originally Posted by Richiebottles View Post
The Ruins Traded Kessel for 2 1rst picks. In the top 10 range when they were cup contenders. That is what i mean.
I'll elaborate on the trade to lay out why it's a bad example. The mythology surrounding the Kessel trade is starting to cloud memories as to what actually happened. At the time, it wasn't a deal that Chiarelli wanted to make.

The Bruins traded Kessel because he was an RFA and they had cap problems. They were bound to lose Kessel after assigning Lucic the contract they did and Burke gave Chiarelli a heads-up that an RFA offer sheet would go Kessel's way if the B's tried to wait out the situation. It certainly wasn't a trade where Chiarelli just felt like dealing a young, NHL established player for a couple picks just because he could. The salary cap completely forced the Bruins' hand in the situation.

The Leafs doing terribly the following season has spun a rosy light on Chiarelli's move, but it was more the result of poor foresight and luck on his part than anything else. Had the Bruins been able to fit Kessel under the cap, the trade would never have happened. Like many other aspects of managing a team, it's amazing how many great moves are the result of happenstance, more than shrewd planning and tactics.

The Habs don't have cap issues, thus they don't have to trade their first liners for prospects who just might turn out to be first liners.

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Old
06-14-2011, 12:19 PM
  #100
hotcarle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleOdelein View Post
I'll elaborate on the trade to lay out why it's a bad example. The mythology surrounding the Kessel trade is starting to cloud memories as to what actually happened. At the time, it wasn't a deal that Chiarelli wanted to make.

The Bruins traded Kessel because he was an RFA and they had cap problems. They were bound to lose Kessel after assigning Lucic the contract they did and Burke gave Chiarelli a heads-up that an RFA offer sheet would go Kessel's way if the B's tried to wait out the situation. It certainly wasn't a trade where Chiarelli just felt like dealing a young, NHL established player for a couple picks just because he could. The salary cap completely forced the Bruins' hand in the situation.

The Leafs doing terribly the following season has spun a rosy light on Chiarelli's move, but it was more the result of poor foresight and luck on his part than anything else. Had the Bruins been able to fit Kessel under the cap, the trade would never have happened. Like many other aspects of managing a team, it's amazing how many great moves are the result of happenstance, more than shrewd planning and tactics.

The Habs don't have cap issues, thus they don't have to trade their first liners for prospects who just might turn out to be first liners.
I think it had a lot to do with Burke thinking he was stealing Kessel for the 30th pick in the next two drafts. Burke's ego is the only thing that gets in the way, he's a good negotiator.

The cap situation, while annoying, is not a "be all, end all". New Jersey and New York have proven that the cap doesn't really exist. They could have buried Sturm in the minors.

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