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Roster Thoughts and Offseason Speculation for the 2011-2012 Season II

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Old
06-14-2011, 10:51 AM
  #76
Muzzinga
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To Flyers:
Brayden Schenn
Jack Johnson
Jonathan Bernier

To Kings:
Mike Richards

please please pretty please Dean

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06-14-2011, 10:57 AM
  #77
Sydor25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sw1tch View Post
To Flyers:
Brayden Schenn
Jack Johnson
Jonathan Bernier

To Kings:
Mike Richards

please please pretty please Dean
Seriously? A potential #2 center, a #2 defenseman and a potential #1 goalie for a 2nd line center?


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06-14-2011, 11:15 AM
  #78
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I'd probably trade 2 out of those 3 pieces for Richards. Trading Johnson would require some serious deliberation though.

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06-14-2011, 11:23 AM
  #79
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Jack Johnson's trade value is underestimated IMO.

M. Richards is massively overrated in general on these boards.

If we're trading a package like that, I want something elite coming the other way.

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06-14-2011, 11:26 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Pulkinen looks great, another nice snag by the wings.

The Rags, BJ's and Preds all have exceptionally talented LW's that might be obtainable too.
I like going in this direction - who are these "exceptionally talented" LW's and which are on teams that need what we have (players/prospects)?

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06-14-2011, 11:36 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Why do people want to get rid of the only LW to score 20+ goals in back-to-back seasons for Terry Murray? I just don't get it. Too many people are all about cap hits on this board. The cap hit only matters if you spend to the cap and the Kings haven't been any where near the cap.

Didn't everyone ***** and moan about cap space getting too much ice time in LA and now people want the best performing LW on the Kings traded for cap space?

Why not wait until Doughty and Simmonds sign their contracts before freaking out about cap space?
Two things on this.

One, if you go by goals produced then you can make your Smyth argument. If you go by his overall production and include his rapidly decreasing speed/agility and how they impact the team then you can see why some people are ready to move along.

Secondly aren't we supposed to do everything we can to improve the team in the interest of winning the cup each off season? To me, our top 6 must be addressed each offseason until there isn't any need to do so.

All contributing factors need to be reviewed before making any decisions but in the end, if you find a way to improve the team you simply have to do it providing it improves the entire team.

Smyth can still score so he has some value to us outside of the team as well. We won't be re signing him when his contract is up so unless we deal him now his value only decreases with each passing month.

I don't think his cap hit entirely as being the mitigating factor for my desire to move him, I think that we need to improve our overall team speed and scoring up front. Both of our top 2 lines should be able to strike fear into our opponents and if our first line is going to have Penner/Kopitar and Williams on it speed isn't going to be its strong suit.

A second line focused on speed would make our opponents D have to back up or get burned giving our forwards both time and space to create offense. We need to improve the dynamics of our second line. Smyth is slow and that sadly is that.

Replacing his production alone would be an improvement but replacing his production *and* his rapidly failing defencive abilities makes us better at both ends of the ice. Keeping Smyth in his position could become a serious mistake for us regardless of his cap hit.

I haven't had a cup of coffee yet so I hope this all makes sense.

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06-14-2011, 11:39 AM
  #82
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Quote:
To Flyers:
Brayden Schenn
Jack Johnson
Jonathan Bernier

To Kings:
Mike Richards
How does that make sense for the Flyers? If they sign Bryzgalov to some crazy amount of money, why would they need/want Bernier? The Flyers don't really need a center to replace Richards. How does Johnson help with the Flyers needing to get rid of salary to sign Bryzgalov?

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06-14-2011, 11:48 AM
  #83
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That and the fact that it makes even less sense for the Kings. Why would we move TWO rising stars plus the highest rated prospect in the game for a player who is said to have problems with management?

I would offer JJ plus Schenn for Richards plus a prospect/pick of lesser but still considerable value and even then you have to catch me on the right day.

Richards is the perfect example of who Schenn is likely to become in the NHL but as an unknown there needs to be insurance for the deal. Jack Johnson is a bonafide top pairing PMD who will run your top PP (in a traditional PP setting) unit and give you solid minutes at both ends giving value for the insurance policy.

Richards is a proven performer up and coming star who would give us a 1b center for the next several years and significantly improve our team. To me evening up the value would be a return of either a 3rd rd pick or solid prospect though with our scouting system I would prefer the pick.

Is it something that I would do if I were GM? Not a chance. Schenn is too valuable an asset to deal just yet if ever and the same can be said for JJ.

When it comes to hockey horsing around during the offseason? I make that deal everyday.

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Old
06-14-2011, 11:59 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Two things on this.

One, if you go by goals produced then you can make your Smyth argument. If you go by his overall production and include his rapidly decreasing speed/agility and how they impact the team then you can see why some people are ready to move along.

Secondly aren't we supposed to do everything we can to improve the team in the interest of winning the cup each off season? To me, our top 6 must be addressed each offseason until there isn't any need to do so.

All contributing factors need to be reviewed before making any decisions but in the end, if you find a way to improve the team you simply have to do it providing it improves the entire team.

Smyth can still score so he has some value to us outside of the team as well. We won't be re signing him when his contract is up so unless we deal him now his value only decreases with each passing month.

I don't think his cap hit entirely as being the mitigating factor for my desire to move him, I think that we need to improve our overall team speed and scoring up front. Both of our top 2 lines should be able to strike fear into our opponents and if our first line is going to have Penner/Kopitar and Williams on it speed isn't going to be its strong suit.

A second line focused on speed would make our opponents D have to back up or get burned giving our forwards both time and space to create offense. We need to improve the dynamics of our second line. Smyth is slow and that sadly is that.

Replacing his production alone would be an improvement but replacing his production *and* his rapidly failing defencive abilities makes us better at both ends of the ice. Keeping Smyth in his position could become a serious mistake for us regardless of his cap hit.

I haven't had a cup of coffee yet so I hope this all makes sense.
If that's the goal, then Penner should get moved before Smyth.

Smyth>Penner and it's not even close. Westgarth was better than Penner.

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Old
06-14-2011, 12:07 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
If that's the goal, then Penner should get moved before Smyth.

Smyth>Penner and it's not even close. Westgarth was better than Penner.
If you ignore everything Penner did before LA, sure. Penner was obviously having problems last year, we don't know what he's capable off. Would be silly to trade him for anything that's not over payment.

Smyth, on the other hand, while he gets 20 something goals, probably causes 30 goals against/missed goals just because of his speed.

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06-14-2011, 12:14 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings4ever View Post
I like going in this direction - who are these "exceptionally talented" LW's and which are on teams that need what we have (players/prospects)?
Neideriter
Kreider
Pulkonen
Beck
Filatov

are all exceptionally talented young LW's (though Filatov is sort of iffy, all the skill but has his issues) that would look good in a Kings uni. I like Beck and Special K the best of those but Pulkinen looks special too.

That's just a short list of many that I would have targeted if I were going that way.

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06-14-2011, 12:17 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by SMoneyMonkey View Post
If you ignore everything Penner did before LA, sure. Penner was obviously having problems last year, we don't know what he's capable off. Would be silly to trade him for anything that's not over payment.

Smyth, on the other hand, while he gets 20 something goals, probably causes 30 goals against/missed goals just because of his speed.
Smyth is not a problem for the Kings. The cap hit is not one either. If Dean grabs someone this off season; and has to move someone, He will. It doesn't stop the Kings from doing ANYTHING.

And After this next season he is gone, Why is this such a problem for people.

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06-14-2011, 12:24 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Smyth is not a problem for the Kings. The cap hit is not one either. If Dean grabs someone this off season; and has to move someone, He will. It doesn't stop the Kings from doing ANYTHING.

And After this next season he is gone, Why is this such a problem for people.
Smyth is 6.25m, near unmovable, 3rd/4th line left winger. Dean can't grab anyone this off season with Smyth.

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06-14-2011, 12:26 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by SMoneyMonkey View Post
Smyth is 6.25m, near unmovable, 3rd/4th line left winger. Dean can't grab anyone this off season with Smyth.
Yes he can, He can easily Move Stoll, Or Penner. It doesn't stop Dean from doing anything. Or Scuds for that matter. Now it's not ideal to move them But you can. Which is the original point. It doesn't stop Dean from doing Anything.

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06-14-2011, 12:29 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Yes he can, He can easily Move Stoll, Or Penner. It doesn't stop Dean from doing anything. Or Scuds for that matter. Now it's not ideal to move them But you can. Which is the original point. It doesn't stop Dean from doing Anything.
Stoll/Scuds > Smyth. Penner is probably better, too.

I don't see how you can say he's not a problem when we'd have to move better players for less relief.

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06-14-2011, 12:31 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Yes he can, He can easily Move Stoll, Or Penner. It doesn't stop Dean from doing anything.
Why is the notion of moving Smyth such an issue?

He has slowed way down and while given time can produce 20 goals he holds a highly valuable position on the team that we can improve significantly by simply moving him. Sure he has one year left and then he is done but why should we simply wait it out when we can do better without him in the line up?

I like Smyth and he has been one of my favorite players since he came into the league but his game has slowed down so much and his place so valuable that I would move him in a heartbeat given the chance.

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Old
06-14-2011, 12:32 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMoneyMonkey View Post
Smyth is 6.25m, near unmovable, 3rd/4th line left winger. Dean can't grab anyone this off season with Smyth.
20+ goals and 40+ points is not a 3rd/4th line player. He's a solid 2nd line NHL winger that plays exactly how Murray wants his players to play. Getting 20+ goals while playing Murray's system isn't easy.

He's also making just over $4 million in salary, this is important for AEG and the salary budget.

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06-14-2011, 12:34 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by SMoneyMonkey View Post
Stoll/Scuds > Smyth. Penner is probably better, too.

I don't see how you can say he's not a problem when we'd have to move better players for less relief.
Penner is no where near, what Ryan Smyth has brought to the Kings. But If I have to actually explain that too you. Then there is no point in having this Discussion.

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06-14-2011, 12:35 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Why is the notion of moving Smyth such an issue?

He has slowed way down and while given time can produce 20 goals he holds a highly valuable position on the team that we can improve significantly by simply moving him. Sure he has one year left and then he is done but why should we simply wait it out when we can do better without him in the line up?

I like Smyth and he has been one of my favorite players since he came into the league but his game has slowed down so much and his place so valuable that I would move him in a heartbeat given the chance.
I am not against Moving him. I am Against this notion, that He has hancuffed Dean into not making any Moves this Offseason.

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06-14-2011, 12:36 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
20+ goals and 40+ points is not a 3rd/4th line player. He's a solid 2nd line NHL winger that plays exactly how Murray wants his players to play. Getting 20+ goals while playing Murray's system isn't easy.

He's also making just over $4 million in salary, this is important for AEG and the salary budget.
I'm sure AEG loves him for that 2.25 million, but that in no way helps the team. And he was a solid 2nd line winger a few games this season. He ruins our breakout because he can't catch passes, he's too slow getting back on D (keep in mind that almost all of San Jose's important goals were because our forwards didn't get back fast enough so the seam was open for one of their Ds/ late forwards). It's not like he's going to be faster this season. Sure he'll get a few garbage goals but, at the cost of many more against.

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06-14-2011, 12:38 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Penner is no where near, what Ryan Smyth has brought to the Kings. But If I have to actually explain that too you. Then there is no point in having this Discussion.
Penner has hardly been given enough of a chance to show that. Do you really think Smyth will be better than Penner next year? Unless you're expecting Smyth to get a lot better, that's a very pessimistic view to take.

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06-14-2011, 12:38 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Why is the notion of moving Smyth such an issue?

He has slowed way down and while given time can produce 20 goals he holds a highly valuable position on the team that we can improve significantly by simply moving him. Sure he has one year left and then he is done but why should we simply wait it out when we can do better without him in the line up?

I like Smyth and he has been one of my favorite players since he came into the league but his game has slowed down so much and his place so valuable that I would move him in a heartbeat given the chance.
Not everyone can produce 20+ goals in a Murray system. Smyth has proven that he can produce playing Murray's system. His minutes were also reduced last season and he still put up 20+ goals. It is also a contract year for Smyth, if he has any aspirations of playing another season in the NHL, he will produce next season for the Kings.

Without anyone ready to fill his role, there is no need to trade him. Obviously, if Dean gets Parise, then Smyth can be moved or bought out. No reason to create a hole in the top 6 for a player that hasn't proven that they can produce in the NHL.

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06-14-2011, 12:39 PM
  #98
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I'm sure AEG loves him for that 2.25 million, but that in no way helps the team. And he was a solid 2nd line winger a few games this season. He ruins our breakout because he can't catch passes, he's too slow getting back on D (keep in mind that almost all of San Jose's important goals were because our forwards didn't get back fast enough so the seam was open for one of their Ds/ late forwards). It's not like he's going to be faster this season. Sure he'll get a few garbage goals but, at the cost of many more against.
You must have missed the Epic back-check that saved the Kings bacon in one of those games. It was performed by non other than Ryan Smyth.

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06-14-2011, 12:42 PM
  #99
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You must have missed the Epic back-check that saved the Kings bacon in one of those games. It was performed by non other than Ryan Smyth.
Your argument is one play?

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06-14-2011, 12:42 PM
  #100
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Penner has hardly been given enough of a chance to show that. Do you really think Smyth will be better than Penner next year? Unless you're expecting Smyth to get a lot better, that's a very pessimistic view to take.
Penner gave everyone reasons To doubt him. He was the Worst King on the ice Some shifts And most of the playoff's. Ryan Smyth was by far one of the Best. You missed the Game tying Goal as well that made This board explode. Ryan Smyth again. Oh Also the Over time Clincher was Penner not back-checking With authority. Did you watch the Playoff's ?

If a Deal to move him was to be had go for it Dean. But stop acting like the Kings are stymied. It doesn't stop Dean from Getting (His) Guy this off-season.

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