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Kostitsyn versus Pacioretty

View Poll Results: Better season next year?
Andrei K 48 32.00%
Max Pac 102 68.00%
Voters: 150. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-14-2011, 12:20 PM
  #51
Marchy79
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I dont get the negativity against AK's season this year

I thought that he was one of our best players (By far) this year. He was involved in many aspects of the team this year (which was his first season without the off-ice distractions that have pestered him since the whole trouble thing happened a few years back (Hanging out with some reputed mobsters or something to that effect.

I put my vote for Patches, as I do think he will outproduce Kost, but I dont think either one of them is expendable, both are valuable members of this team.

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Old
06-14-2011, 12:20 PM
  #52
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This pretty much prove that you either didn't watch the Habs this season, or you're extremely bias against AK. 90% of the time when AK is on the PP, he parks his ass in front of the net.
And when he doesn't its usually because he has somewhere better to be. There is a lot more to powerplays than just crashing the net while your defensemen tee-off point shots. That's been the Bruins PP strategy and its been ineffectual for the most part.

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Old
06-14-2011, 12:47 PM
  #53
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The poll results are such a joke. People only remember that AK played bad in the last 3 games of the playoffs while they remember the good stretch of games Max Pac had before he got injured. AK was our second best forward after Pleky last year, just saying...

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Old
06-14-2011, 12:51 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HabzFanatik71 View Post
The poll results are such a joke. People only remember that AK played bad in the last 3 games of the playoffs while they remember the good stretch of games Max Pac had before he got injured. AK was our second best forward after Pleky last year, just saying...
I agree. I made this poll because I thought it would be close.

I thought AK played well in the playoffs too.

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06-14-2011, 12:53 PM
  #55
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I think Max will be the better player but honestly, I think they will both be solid. The bring slightly different skill sets to the team and that is good.

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06-14-2011, 03:05 PM
  #56
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If Pacioretty can find his game in camp, I woudn't be surprised if he challenges Cammy and Gionta for the goal scoring title on the team.

25-30 isn't out the question, it all depends how he responds from his injury. Having a big pre-season would help him tremendously. I honestly don't know what to expect from Kostitsyn. 20 minimum i'm sure, but outside of that anyone's guess is as good as mine.

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Old
06-14-2011, 04:28 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
If Pacioretty can find his game in camp, I woudn't be surprised if he challenges Cammy and Gionta for the goal scoring title on the team.

25-30 isn't out the question, it all depends how he responds from his injury. Having a big pre-season would help him tremendously. I honestly don't know what to expect from Kostitsyn. 20 minimum i'm sure, but outside of that anyone's guess is as good as mine.
25-30 goals is very good but may not be be good enough to lead the team his rivals miss games through injury. What I hope is that at least 5 Habs break the 20 point barrier.

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Old
06-14-2011, 04:54 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
25-30 goals is very good but may not be be good enough to lead the team his rivals miss games through injury. What I hope is that at least 5 Habs break the 20 point barrier.
If the top-6 is healthy they should have no trouble achieving that. Gionta and Cammaleri have paced for 30+ per 82 games as Habs. Plekanec tends to be 25-30 and Kostitsyn 20-25. Pacioretty was both a shot and scoring chance creation machine last year. Most breakout goalscoring seasons are because a guy gets a hot hand and everything starts to go in for him. Not Pacioretty, he only shot at 12.5% which is about average for a scoring forward (around Plekanec, Kostitsyn and Cammaleri's career averages). 20 goals should be easy for him, 30 is not out of the question.

Its not all that unlikely at this point that Pacioretty might hit 35-40 in his career best year, much like Cammaleri and Gionta have, if he keeps up his level of performance. That's not something I say lightly and certainly isn't something I'd say about Kostitsyn or anyone else in the Habs system.

Such a performance isn't impossible in the Habs system either like some may think. Gionta scored 37 in 80 games last year, Cammaleri 39 in 84. Those weren't even the best goalscoring years in either player's career either. Gionta famously having 51 in 91 games in 05-06 and Cammaleri 40 in 86 in 08-09. I of course have also been counting playoff games to provide the appropriate context.

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Old
06-14-2011, 05:06 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
If the top-6 is healthy
Unfortunately, history proves that assumption to be totally irrational.

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Old
06-14-2011, 11:06 PM
  #60
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Pacioretty is and will always be the better player [if his concussion doesn't screw him up].

Kostitsyn is a majorly flawed player with the poorest mental game on the team.

Even if both achieve their potential, Pacioretty will be better. Kostitsyn's potential is not that high. He's not a smart enough player to make use of his tools. Heck, he might even be legitimately retarded, we never hear him speak. He hasn't even shown glimpses of truly dominant play, which his individual skills indicate he's capable of. There's always something lacking.

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06-14-2011, 11:43 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Little Nilan View Post
Pacioretty is and will always be the better player [if his concussion doesn't screw him up].

Kostitsyn is a majorly flawed player with the poorest mental game on the team.

Even if both achieve their potential, Pacioretty will be better. Kostitsyn's potential is not that high. He's not a smart enough player to make use of his tools. Heck, he might even be legitimately retarded, we never hear him speak. He hasn't even shown glimpses of truly dominant play, which his individual skills indicate he's capable of. There's always something lacking.
Wow.. just wow.

Because the guy is shy and doesn't make interviews in english, he's retarded?

Now that's a retarded thing to say.

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Old
06-15-2011, 12:21 AM
  #62
Little Nilan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HabzFanatik71 View Post
Back on the topic of discussion, one guy has been averaging 20+ goals per season since he's been in the league and the other one has 20 goals in his career but he is and will always be better. Right?
You got it down perfectly, right there.

Here's an easy fan opinion summary of the impact of one vs the impact of the other:

Pacioretty injured = "Are we a MaxPac away from a cup????"

Kostitsyn injured = "..."

Better thread would be: how much better is Sergei than Andrei, and how much better will he be next year?

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Old
06-15-2011, 01:14 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
There are some similarities but Richer actually produced and showed what he could do. He was inconsistent but a bad season for him was 25 goals. He was a game breaker who could dominate and we haven't seen that from AK yet. AK hasn't ever reached a level where he's shown he can dominate the game. He goes through stretches where he's somewhat productive and he makes the odd killer play but I've never seen him consistently dominate.

And I have no idea why. The guy has all the tools but just can't put it together.
Keep in mind Richer's 50 goal season came at a time were it was far less of an exploit as it is today. He sharer his two 50 goal seasons with 7 and 8 other players respectively. In his third best year (were he netted 38g) there were 14 players with 50+g. Imho he would have been a 30-40 goal scorer when at his best in today's NHL, doubtful he'd actually hit 40. He was a better player than Kostitsyn for sure but not by such a wide margin. AK has had dominant stretches, also.

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Old
06-15-2011, 01:33 AM
  #64
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I'm the only one who expect a 15-20 goals season for Max Pac next year?

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Old
06-15-2011, 01:46 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Quarantesix View Post
I'm the only one who expect a 15-20 goals season for Max Pac next year?
Imho its a bit low if he's healthy and plays top6 all year but you might only be more realistic than most here (we are guilty of projecting a player's best stretch over an entire year. the maple leaf fan way.)

I think he'll get 20 to 25. More than that would be a huge bonus. I think it really depends on how the team does offensively next year, he could really benefit if Gomez has a decent year or if he ends up playing with Plekanec. Under 20 goals would be disappointing but can happen as last year might have been fluky since it was the first year in his career that he showed a good deal of goal scoring ability. If we combine all levels he scored more in the NHL+AHL last year than in his 3 previous years.

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Old
06-15-2011, 02:12 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Imho its a bit low if he's healthy and plays top6 all year but you might only be more realistic than most here (we are guilty of projecting a player's best stretch over an entire year. the maple leaf fan way.)

I think he'll get 20 to 25. More than that would be a huge bonus. I think it really depends on how the team does offensively next year, he could really benefit if Gomez has a decent year or if he ends up playing with Plekanec. Under 20 goals would be disappointing but can happen as last year might have been fluky since it was the first year in his career that he showed a good deal of goal scoring ability. If we combine all levels he scored more in the NHL+AHL last year than in his 3 previous years.
I think other team will adjust to his style of play he will be in other team game plan next year and they will watch videos and find weakness in his game. It's the same for all young players who start having success in the NHL. I expect him to be very inconsistent next year. He will play top 6 and bottom 6 IMO. Martin play to win every game we all know Pacs will be on the 3rd or 4th line if he start to struggle. I hope Gauthier find another player who can play top6 this offseason a competition for big minute with Pacs,Kostitsyn and let's say Laich would be good for our team

I will be happy if he score 15-20 goals because he bring depth to our team and he's very young so he will be a 20-25 guys one day no doubt but I will be very surprise if he do it next year.

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Old
06-15-2011, 05:26 AM
  #67
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Pacs has more speed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HabzFanatik71 View Post
AK is a more complete player IMO, especially with the way his defensive game got better last year. Max Pac plays well for 30 games and apparently he's suddendly our savior. Don't get me wrong, I loved his game last year as he was playing like we hoped he would but it's a real small sample size. Hopefully he comes back and plays at the same level of play he was when he got injured this year.

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06-15-2011, 05:33 AM
  #68
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It is also possible that he could have more assists as well. When he came into the league he was touted as having a playmaking touch. This isnt to contradict your post but to augment it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
If Pacioretty can find his game in camp, I woudn't be surprised if he challenges Cammy and Gionta for the goal scoring title on the team.

25-30 isn't out the question, it all depends how he responds from his injury. Having a big pre-season would help him tremendously. I honestly don't know what to expect from Kostitsyn. 20 minimum i'm sure, but outside of that anyone's guess is as good as mine.

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Old
06-15-2011, 08:31 AM
  #69
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I know it's unpopular, but,

why can't they both be amazing?

Andrei is a beast. I love him and he's really changed his game for the better. Needless to say I love MP (who doesn't, he's the f'in man).

They might end up with the same number of points or at least pts/min.

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Old
06-15-2011, 09:07 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
I know it's unpopular, but,

why can't they both be amazing?

Andrei is a beast. I love him and he's really changed his game for the better. Needless to say I love MP (who doesn't, he's the f'in man).

They might end up with the same number of points or at least pts/min.
They both are my favorite player, so yeah. In my eyes, they're both amazing.

As a mather of fact, that team has a lot of great player.. More than we think and that's why the Habs are close to the cup.

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06-15-2011, 12:46 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Little Nilan View Post
You got it down perfectly, right there.

Here's an easy fan opinion summary of the impact of one vs the impact of the other:

Pacioretty injured = "Are we a MaxPac away from a cup????"

Kostitsyn injured = "..."

Better thread would be: how much better is Sergei than Andrei, and how much better will he be next year?

So a thread on HF boards determines who's more important to the team? I get where you get your own opinions of players now so I won't even bother arguing with a sheep. We're not a Max Pac away from a cup anyway...maybe a Markov but not a Max Pac.

That being said, I hope that they both bring their A game this year because we're definitly going to need them to fill big roles for our team.

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Old
06-15-2011, 03:22 PM
  #72
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Any given day Andre can look so talented ... Slashing to the net and getting that howitzer off

Than on another day he can't take a pass. He will make one of those crazy drop passes or he will trip over his own feet ...

His talent is not reliable, inconsistent. He is too slow with decisions and deliberate to take advantage of his athleticism

Pacioretty looke so impressive over his short period of good play last year ... However he suffered a massive head injury and has a few question marks of his own

I think you set the bar to high for these guys. A reasonable expectation might be 20 goals and good 2-way play

That'd be pretty good... I think Patches is better in the long run and now ... Assuming a full recovery

So I guess I'm not the only one who sees how TERRIBLE Kostitsyn is at taking a pass! Dear lord I have never seen a suposed "top 6" player who had worse hands that this guy.

If you've been watching the playoff, Chris Higgins is playing better than Kostitsyn ...and it's NOT all about stats! (that for all you Xbox players)

I am hoping AK dangles him in the draft and moves up from 17th to top 10.

You can't tell if he's playing in an exhibition game or the playoffs....his speed and intentsity is the same!

I can't see how he can be a favorite player of any fan... I mean when you see a kid like Eller skate PAST him to backcheck THREE times on ONE SHIFT (I am not making this up)... wow...really!!!!

To answer your question Max passed AK for potential NOW when he was tweeting at the movie theater, and the gap will only get bigger next season.

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Old
06-15-2011, 03:50 PM
  #73
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The reason why Pacioretty is getting so much love from everyone here despite playing so few games is pretty simple. He was playing that power forward game we've been lacking from a forward for a very long time. He was one of our faster skaters for one, he was one of our better forecheckers (although I will concede Kostitsyn does hit MUCH harder when he wants to), but most importantly he was fearless in his approach to crashing the net, whenever we had possession of the puck he was within 3 feet of the net all the time. Gio and Cammy also go to these dirty areas but they just don't have the physical tools to be as effective there as Pacioretty can/is. I find Pacioretty has a much quicker (although not stronger) release on his shot than Kostitsyn, he finds open seam passes better as well. He just see's the game better.

It remains to be seen if he can return to that level after his injury and if it's sustainable long-term or just a spurt. The optimist in us all is saying we've just seen the tip of the iceberg while the pessimist is skeptical. It's normal. Meanwhile Kostitsyn has been consistently in-consistent in getting his 20-goal 40-ish point seasons. We more or less know what to expect by now and achieving more than this will come as a shock to most people. I do hope he does though.

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Old
06-15-2011, 10:26 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by nyhabsfan View Post
So I guess I'm not the only one who sees how TERRIBLE Kostitsyn is at taking a pass! Dear lord I have never seen a suposed "top 6" player who had worse hands that this guy.

If you've been watching the playoff, Chris Higgins is playing better than Kostitsyn ...and it's NOT all about stats! (that for all you Xbox players)

I am hoping AK dangles him in the draft and moves up from 17th to top 10.

You can't tell if he's playing in an exhibition game or the playoffs....his speed and intentsity is the same!

I can't see how he can be a favorite player of any fan... I mean when you see a kid like Eller skate PAST him to backcheck THREE times on ONE SHIFT (I am not making this up)... wow...really!!!!

To answer your question Max passed AK for potential NOW when he was tweeting at the movie theater, and the gap will only get bigger next season.
AK has 2(TWO !) goals in his last 24 playoff games,and people say he was among our best forwards.

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Old
06-15-2011, 11:37 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Keep in mind Richer's 50 goal season came at a time were it was far less of an exploit as it is today. He sharer his two 50 goal seasons with 7 and 8 other players respectively. In his third best year (were he netted 38g) there were 14 players with 50+g. Imho he would have been a 30-40 goal scorer when at his best in today's NHL, doubtful he'd actually hit 40. He was a better player than Kostitsyn for sure but not by such a wide margin. AK has had dominant stretches, also.
No doubt it was a different era, but he was still a dominant scorer and game breaker far above anything that Kosti has come close to becoming. I'd say he was far better than Kosti is. He came in top ten in goals twice and was up there with Steve Yzerman and other top superstars. That is damn impressive.

AK has the talent but hasn't had near those kinds of results.

Also, I was shocked to learn that Richer is 72nd all time in goalscoring. Much of that is because of the era he played in but still...

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