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Bertrand Raymond Article: Realistic or Typical Habs Bashing?

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06-15-2011, 11:47 AM
  #1
FrankMTL
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Bertrand Raymond Article: Realistic or Typical Habs Bashing?

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/321282.html

Sorry to our anglo friends, I don't have time to translate. Basically he just writes that Habs management and fans are dreaming if they think they would have gotten any farther had they beaten the Bruins in the 7th game...

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06-15-2011, 11:55 AM
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MathMan
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Typical Habs-bashing, with plenty of baseless narrative mixed in. Even as an opinion piece from a media outlet, it's pretty bad.

I'm not sure why RDS hired Bertrand Raymond at all. They should really find an editorialist who understands the game and whose agenda isn't quite so transparent.

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06-15-2011, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMTL View Post
http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/321282.html

Sorry to our anglo friends, I don't have time to translate. Basically he just writes that Habs management and fans are dreaming if they think they would have gotten any farther had they beaten the Bruins in the 7th game...
With the East not having a powerhouse team, I don't think it's far fetched to say that with a win over Boston we had a shot at going to round 3 or 4. We did it last year. Obviously playing 7 games and being banged up makes it hard, but Boston dispatched Phillie pretty quick given their lack of goaltending so that game them a lot of rest.

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06-15-2011, 11:56 AM
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Andy
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You don't necessarily have to be the better team to go far in the playoffs. Look at Boston, they barely got past Montreal if not for a couple of lucky bounces. I knew they'd beat philli, but never thought they'd get past tampa. A couple of goalie meltdowns from roloson got thenm to the finals.

Obviously you need a good team on paper, but its not only about that.

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06-15-2011, 11:57 AM
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Blind Gardien
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Who knows, really. I think that's kinda the point with the "modern playoffs". You gotta get in. Then who knows. Our team could have grown, could have run out of gas, could have faced opponents that were trending up or down, any combination would have been possible, and it's impossible to predict what might have happened.

All we can really say is that we were a bounce away from finding out. Habs were as good/maybe a teensy bit better than Boston in Round 1, but couldn't find a way in those OTs. So we'll never know.

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06-15-2011, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Who knows, really. I think that's kinda the point with the "modern playoffs". You gotta get in. Then who knows. Our team could have grown, could have run out of gas, could have faced opponents that were trending up or down, any combination would have been possible, and it's impossible to predict what might have happened.

All we can really say is that we were a bounce away from finding out. Habs were as good/maybe a teensy bit better than Boston in Round 1, but couldn't find a way in those OTs. So we'll never know.
I think some journalists in this city need to retire finally. There's been non stop bashing of this franchise from a few old dinosaurs who don't realize that its 2011, and the Habs can't win the Stanley Cup every year or draft every decent Quebecois player available.

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06-15-2011, 12:03 PM
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Anyone else find it pretty funny that both Boston and Vancouver narrowly beat their biggest rivals in the first round game 7 OT?

Neither of these teams are very deserving of the cup the more deserving team being Boston.

I know at least San Jose and Chicago would have likely given Boston fits by comparison to Vancouver, and who honestly knows what Nashville could have done.

But I should have known Luo would choke it's really no shock. Bruins hoist the cup tonight, book it.

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06-15-2011, 12:06 PM
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So many "book it" fail on this board... be careful !

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06-15-2011, 12:09 PM
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MathMan
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neofury: Define "deserving the Cup".

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06-15-2011, 12:20 PM
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What seems to be ignored in all this is that one crucuial element is required in hockey. Durability.

You have to be able to be the last man standing.

Koivu was a great player, but he wore down at the end of every year. Halak was a great player for stretches, but wore down. Habs history is filled with this, as is the case with Vancouver this playoff year.

Anyone who does not see that the Canucks are beyond banged up, and are just not playing like they did during the year is blind.

The Bruins made it by the Habs, by the skin of their team. That does not make them a bad team. Then they outplayed TB, and the Flyers were out manned (injuries).

The Bruins do not have a good offense, as it plainly obvious in their PP. They have a balanced attack and they have outlasted other teams. Their goaltending has been great, and inspiring. Their defense has been tough, and solid. They have enough left to win.

The Habs just do not have the roster to play 84 games, then another possible 20 of smash bang hockey. They have not yet done enough to get better, and are only treading water.

They need to solve the center position, witha player with size and skill on the first line. Then they need to rid themselves of Spacek and UPGRADE that position. Then they need to add a back up who can win when called upon. Finally, they need to complete a fourth line that is responsible defensively (enough to be used on PK) and can HURT other teams physically with constant body banging.

Until then, the teh Habs are a pretender. And I will be a fan of them anyways, just because I have always been, and I live here. But I will not lie to myself.

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06-15-2011, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
neofury: Define "deserving the Cup".
OK fair enough but what I mean is it will be the ugliest cup victory I've seen in recent memory, especially if Vancouver wins.

Neither team really dominated they were both pretty flakey and for the most part inconsistent. Obviously Boston being the more consistent of the two teams.

Far more consistent and better teams have won the cup in the past 100 years. I can't think of a worse team to have won the cup since these two teams given their playoff performances this year. Boston it wouldn't be so bad but Vancouver has been truly pathetic. (These teams aren't even on the Carolina cup teams level fyi)

Ultimately you're right in that the team deserving to win is the team that makes it to the finals but with the joke the East was cause of injuries, the Max Pac incident, Vancouver playing so much like ****, it makes it hard to justify saying they really earned it for either team. Vancouver has been a joke. They almost lost to the 8th place team and haven't looked as dominant as they have in the regular season at all in this post season. They aren't even playing playoff hockey, sorry but I don't think either team is very deserving but more-so circumstances outside of their control allowed them to progress far.

In Boston's case a ton of the injuries on the East helped them out (Crosby/Malkin, Pronger, Markov/Gorges/Pacioretty) but at least I can say they are playing playoff hockey. Out west Chicago almost beat Vancouver, Vancouver played alright in NSH and SJ but then choke offensively and in nets versus Boston and I have to say their D has been totally inconsistent. Worst two teams in the finals I've seen in a very long time.

I'm not saying no team has ever won the cup due to benefiting due to their own health or another teams bad health, I'm just saying this year it was the ugliest I've seen it given what I felt both teams should have been able to accomplish. Vancouver had basically a healthy roster aside from a few players, had stacked D, stacked offense, Luongo in nets and they can't even buy one win in the Stanley cup finals in Boston. It's mainly Van I'm talking about but they really don't deserve the cup, they haven't been playing like a playoff team this series plain and simple.

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06-15-2011, 12:32 PM
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Realisically you can't know. But based on how beat up we were after the series I agree we couldn't have gone much further. That being said I didn't read the article so I cant say it isn't hab bashing.

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06-15-2011, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
What seems to be ignored in all this is that one crucuial element is required in hockey. Durability.
I think that completely describes this year's playoff at least. And likely sets the bar looking ahead, since this seems to be the way the NHL now wants the games to be played. It's a war of attrition. It always was to some extent, but the extent just got extended.

Anyway, I'm not so sure our team is out of the running in the durability/war of attrition game. It's not just about size. Gionta is the shining example, I think he could play through the attrition game just fine, Pleks has grown there, Gomez has been there, Cammalleri... well, it's not a slam dunk that our team would fold up or wear down or get beat up anymore. You don't have to engage in it to the extent that this year's finalists are. Avoidance/self-preservation could still help.

That said, our team isn't going to attrit the opposition any. It won't cause any within-series thinning of the enemy ranks. That's where some improvement is probably needed. In the bottom-6 if White is a pinball style energy guy for us, if Emelin can actually play in the NHL and bring some nasty, then maybe we get a little boost coming in. We might also need to upgrade some of the supporting cast again/still... we got good enough performances from Halpern, Pouliot, Darche as "depth guys"... but if you want to compensate for our top-6 not inflicting any attrition, then our bottom-6 could probably still stand some further upgrades in that area. If infliction is desired. It may not be needed, however.

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06-15-2011, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMTL View Post
http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/321282.html

Sorry to our anglo friends, I don't have time to translate. Basically he just writes that Habs management and fans are dreaming if they think they would have gotten any farther had they beaten the Bruins in the 7th game...
I agree with him. Our team just wasn't built to go deep this year. That's it.

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06-15-2011, 12:54 PM
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HH
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
I agree with him. Our team just wasn't built to go deep this year. That's it.
That's not what he's saying though. He's bashing the Habs for what the fans are saying. He's so stupid and old.

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06-15-2011, 01:04 PM
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this team have the caracter to win a cup, let's not be blind by the last 20 years. The last two year Habs are a very difficult team to beat in the playoff, fact are there

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06-15-2011, 01:09 PM
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typical Dinosaur journalist.

him and Rejean Tremblay stopped following after 1979.

they still think there is 6 teams in this league and that the Habs have the first right to anyone born in the province every year.

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06-15-2011, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by alexstream View Post
typical Dinosaur journalist.

him and Rejean Tremblay stopped following after 1979.

they still think there is 6 teams in this league and that the Habs have the first right to anyone born in the province every year.
More-so they have the mentality that regardless of it being a new cap world where we don't get to hand pick Quebec born players we should be going after Quebec born players despite the picks we've been making being heavily favored over them. (Even if it means trading a ton of assets like Subban, Plekanec, Cammy for a guy like Lecavalier who is overpaid and overrated)

They expect us to take the draft rankings of any other team and give each Quebecois a +10 on the list.

Either that or just take all the best Quebecois players and list them 1-7 even if it means those 7 guys this year aren't even top 20 worthy. Obviously hypothetical but it's true. They'd rather see the team be **** with loads of Quebecois than succeed with just a few. It's a real shame honestly.

They're so blinded by their own political agenda that they couldn't even give two ***** about the success of the team, it's more about the success of the language itself.

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06-15-2011, 01:45 PM
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This is the same guy that said Montreal had no chance to beat Boston because of the Chara-Pacioretty incident before the series started and when we went up 2-0 hopped on the bandwagon praising Price and everyone.

He offers no special insight and his analysis is very rarely on point.

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06-15-2011, 01:47 PM
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The Habs were too banged up to go much farther IMO. However the fact that the Bruins needed 3 overtime wins to take a 7 game series and are now in the finals is pretty good evidence that the East was wide open this year.

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06-15-2011, 01:52 PM
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Joe Cole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I think that completely describes this year's playoff at least. And likely sets the bar looking ahead, since this seems to be the way the NHL now wants the games to be played. It's a war of attrition. It always was to some extent, but the extent just got extended.

Anyway, I'm not so sure our team is out of the running in the durability/war of attrition game. It's not just about size. Gionta is the shining example, I think he could play through the attrition game just fine, Pleks has grown there, Gomez has been there, Cammalleri... well, it's not a slam dunk that our team would fold up or wear down or get beat up anymore. You don't have to engage in it to the extent that this year's finalists are. Avoidance/self-preservation could still help.
.
I think Gionta is less of an example and more of an exception, but I agree on his part. But when you go on to list the next 3 players... well, my opinion is that is the trouble. Not any one of those guys, but having all 4 of them, then possibly adding another undersizer, Desharnais.

It just seems obvious when you look at the type of play that happens EVERY year, and maybe especially this year, the Habs do not have the roster to play deep and come out a winner.

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06-15-2011, 01:54 PM
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Joe Cole
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yeah, I thought about what I wrote all lunch time... I knew someone would catch it. 84...duh!

But I repeat, as much as I love the Habs, it is obvious that we do not have a roster to go deep. So far, and yes it is early, we are not closer to the goal.

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06-15-2011, 02:01 PM
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bertrand raymond is just an old fart who don't know s***

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06-15-2011, 02:13 PM
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Personally, we will have a better team than last year:

-If our injured D players come back healthy 100% with the addition of Yemelin, we will be younger and faster.

-Our powerplay will be more efficient just the by the fact that Markov will be back.

-I expect some players to bloom: Eller, Pacioretty, Desharnais and Subban already started...maybe a come back from Pouliot would be appreciated.

-We have an all-stars goalie who doesn't cost a lot for now.

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06-15-2011, 02:16 PM
  #25
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I however agree that it is delusional to think that the Habs had a chance once beyond the Bruins.
yes, Max Pac might have been back.
but Not Markov
Gomer would still have been slumping
and guys like Gio were running out of gas (for lack of support from Gomer, Max Pax being absent and the absence of Markov not making magical first passes)

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