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Roster Thoughts and Offseason Speculation for the 2011-2012 Season II

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Old
06-14-2011, 05:24 PM
  #126
Sydor25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *********** View Post
Would Stoll to Dallas be an impossible trade? They look pretty thin in the middle.
Sure, Jamie Benn would look good in LA.

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06-14-2011, 05:31 PM
  #127
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the only reason JJ is in proposals is because of the kings players that have good trade value, he is the most expendable. He is on that border of being worth more in a trade than Clifford/Simmonds/Bernier but not an untouchable Doughty/Kopitar/Brown.

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06-14-2011, 05:56 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
If the Kings are going to improve the top 6 for this coming season, it's 2nd line center position that needs to be addressed more than anything. Penner/Smyth/Clifford/Parse/Richie is decent LW depth for now.

Smyth was injured (back spasms) for a good portion of last year, which hampered his production. He battled through it, and showed up when it counted. I don't like the idea of moving him over Penner simply because of the message it sends.

I though part of the "plan" was to change the culture around this organisation. I realize this is a business, but moving Smyth right now is kind of classless IMO.
Hummmm


I take issue with the notion that moving Smyth would be a "classless act" in fact I can't see how it could be. Ryan Smyth, Capt Canada is one of my favorite players and has been since before he broke into the NHL and he is and always will be an Edmonton Oiler at heart. He is a pro's pro and will give his best to whatever team he plays for but if you walked up to him and asked where he would want to retire given his choice he would tell you it is in Edm.

Then he would tell you that hockey is a business.

He has said both in several interviews throughout his career, it isn't hard to find.

Classless would be signing him to a retirement deal two seasons ago and then cutting him loose next year but that isn't what happened. We dealt for him and brought him into the fold and whatever happens from that point on is what happens in the bus of hockey.

That said are arguments are all for nought and just a fun exercise in futility if you really think about it. When you take a look at DL and his management style you will see that he is more akin to letting a contract finish and get nothing in return for it then to try and squeeze any additional value that might be had by moving it.

I am not saying that is a bad thing by the way and there is an entire philosophy where in doing exactly that is a large part of how to build a champion. I am saying that DL isn't likely looking to move RS contract at all. If he were the "classy" thing to do would be to send RS back home to Edm where he could end his career playing where he wants to play.

The Oilers have been rumored to have offered for RS a few different times so it wouldn't a difficult thing to do. Rather or not it is the right thing to do is up to DL.

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06-14-2011, 05:59 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Hummmm


I take issue with the notion that moving Smyth would be a "classless act" in fact I can't see how it could be. Ryan Smyth, Capt Canada is one of my favorite players and has been since before he broke into the NHL and he is and always will be an Edmonton Oiler at heart. He is a pro's pro and will give his best to whatever team he plays for but if you walked up to him and asked where he would want to retire given his choice he would tell you it is in Edm.

Then he would tell you that hockey is a business.

He has said both in several interviews throughout his career, it isn't hard to find.

Classless would be signing him to a retirement deal two seasons ago and then cutting him loose next year but that isn't what happened. We dealt for him and brought him into the fold and whatever happens from that point on is what happens in the bus of hockey.

That said are arguments are all for nought and just a fun exercise in futility if you really think about it. When you take a look at DL and his management style you will see that he is more akin to letting a contract finish and get nothing in return for it then to try and squeeze any additional value that might be had by moving it.

I am not saying that is a bad thing by the way and there is an entire philosophy where in doing exactly that is a large part of how to build a champion. I am saying that DL isn't likely looking to move RS contract at all. If he were the "classy" thing to do would be to send RS back home to Edm where he could end his career playing where he wants to play.

The Oilers have been rumored to have offered for RS a few different times so it wouldn't a difficult thing to do. Rather or not it is the right thing to do is up to DL.
And that pretty much depends on whether or not Dean can get an upgrade by acquiring an established top six LW over the summer. Like you, I doubt that Smyth will be moved so a kid's name can be written in pencil in his spot prior to training camp.

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Old
06-14-2011, 06:10 PM
  #130
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Agreed

The thing is that there is little wrong with trying to constantly improve the team nor the notion that moving the aged slowing Smyth might be the right way to do so. If he (rs) remains a king next year then that is fine but if he can be moved to improve our line up then that should always be done whenever possible in my opinion.

Those decisions have been being made more than satisfactorily to this point by DL for the most part so I am comfortable either way.

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06-14-2011, 11:48 PM
  #131
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So when do you suppose we will hear about Doughty and Simmonds new contracts? Do you think DL is waiting till after the cup?

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06-14-2011, 11:51 PM
  #132
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So when do you suppose we will hear about Doughty and Simmonds new contracts? Do you think DL is waiting till after the cup?
I'm guessing we'll have to wait till they sign

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06-15-2011, 12:05 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Hummmm


I take issue with the notion that moving Smyth would be a "classless act" in fact I can't see how it could be. Ryan Smyth, Capt Canada is one of my favorite players and has been since before he broke into the NHL and he is and always will be an Edmonton Oiler at heart. He is a pro's pro and will give his best to whatever team he plays for but if you walked up to him and asked where he would want to retire given his choice he would tell you it is in Edm.

Then he would tell you that hockey is a business.

He has said both in several interviews throughout his career, it isn't hard to find.

Classless would be signing him to a retirement deal two seasons ago and then cutting him loose next year but that isn't what happened. We dealt for him and brought him into the fold and whatever happens from that point on is what happens in the bus of hockey.

That said are arguments are all for nought and just a fun exercise in futility if you really think about it. When you take a look at DL and his management style you will see that he is more akin to letting a contract finish and get nothing in return for it then to try and squeeze any additional value that might be had by moving it.

I am not saying that is a bad thing by the way and there is an entire philosophy where in doing exactly that is a large part of how to build a champion. I am saying that DL isn't likely looking to move RS contract at all. If he were the "classy" thing to do would be to send RS back home to Edm where he could end his career playing where he wants to play.

The Oilers have been rumored to have offered for RS a few different times so it wouldn't a difficult thing to do. Rather or not it is the right thing to do is up to DL.
I call BS on Smyth wanting to go to Edmonton. Maybe after he wins a cup he'd be willing to go back, but right now I think we wants to play for a team that has a chance at contending. He's not getting any younger.

Look at how the Red Wings handled Chelios. When it was clear that he was slowing down, they could have replaced him with Quincey, but they decided to waive Kyle and let Chelios play out the remainder of his contract. That's how classy organizations handle their business.

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Old
06-15-2011, 12:29 AM
  #134
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Chelios was with Detroit for a decade. Smyth has been with us for 2 years. And we're talking about trading him to where he played most of his career. It's in no way classless. Players get traded. It's business. I'd love to keep Smyth forever, I hope we resign him (for much less) next year and that he plays four or so more years. He's great on the Powerplay and will continue to be, he's a great guy (seems to be), and a good leader/mentor. But when your cap hit is 6.25m you have to understand that some notion of 'class' isn't going to be a priority for the franchise you're with. You owe the club at that point. It's not like you played 3 years at 800k scoring tons of points for this club, you came in at 6.25 and have not been scoring at that level.

I wish Smyth all the best. But I'd hold it against him if he didn't waive if a deal was set up (which included us getting a better left winger to replace him). I wouldn't hate the guy but, I'd recognize him as more of an obstacle in the way of our cup run than anything.

I guess we'll see what happens. If we're poised to make a cup run and we trade him at the deadline, then I'd be annoyed and consider it classless. But I'm sure that'd pass quickly

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Old
06-15-2011, 12:42 AM
  #135
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I'm making my argument based on the assumption that Smyth wants to be here, and wants to play out the remainder of his contract here. When you consider that, and the fact that he's a well respected team mate whose played his ass off, I think dumping him on the worst team in the league is a bit classless.

If he wants to go to Edmonton then fine. But I don't believe it.

Every player knows that if they go to Detroit they're going to be treated well. I want players to think the same thing about LA. It's the "changing the culture" part of the plan, and one that I agree with.

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Old
06-15-2011, 10:21 AM
  #136
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Just read at the Red Wings board that Jagr is available and looking for 2,5 a year ..source is saying it is a trusty source, I can't say anything on that behalf.

Jagr was great in the WC but could he stay healthy for an entire NHL season and would we want him if there was a chance to sign a short term. IMO It might light a fire under Penners ass if he has to fight for his spot.

BTW what is Jagr? LW, RW or center? I think I would pass on him, he is old and who has to step back if he signs, (the new culture)? Some of the upcomming kids would maybe been put on hold for another season..don't like that at all.

..and his focus on his new bought club??

Thoughts....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franzening Frank View Post
This was taken from RebelMe on the Trade forum.



Quote:
Czech newspaper Denik Sport reports that it is now certain Jagr will not play in KHL next season. One of the main reasons is that their summer camp starts too early and he feels he needs to focus on managing Kladno (he bought his hometown hockey club last month and it needs a lot of work so it won't go under).

Now, he's aiming to go to NHL and is presumably choosing from Red Wings and Penguins. It seems that Red Wings are the most likely choice. Estimated salary $2.5M.

This rumor should be taken quite seriously, the journalist who wrote it has longtime personal relationship with Jagr...of all the Czech writers, he's the one who is the closest to him. He would not write this if it were utter ********.

http://translate.google.cz/translate...l-detroit.html







Do you think it could happen? He's aiming for 2.5m per


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Old
06-15-2011, 10:31 AM
  #137
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Jagr would never come here anyways, which is fine with me.

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Old
06-15-2011, 11:08 AM
  #138
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Jagr is a left wing from what I remember. I think he's going to Montreal. I think he should take a discount and go back to Pittsburgh-he's going to need better centers at this late stage of his career.

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06-15-2011, 11:15 AM
  #139
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Look at how the Red Wings handled Chelios. When it was clear that he was slowing down, they could have replaced him with Quincey, but they decided to waive Kyle and let Chelios play out the remainder of his contract. That's how classy organizations handle their business.
I can assure you that if Detroit felt Quincey was the better player, they would have kept him instead of Chelios. Classy or not classy, successful organizations do what's best for their club, period. They accommodate players when they can, but not at the price of making the team worse.

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06-15-2011, 11:41 AM
  #140
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I'm making my argument based on the assumption that Smyth wants to be here, and wants to play out the remainder of his contract here. When you consider that, and the fact that he's a well respected team mate whose played his ass off, I think dumping him on the worst team in the league is a bit classless.

If he wants to go to Edmonton then fine. But I don't believe it.

Every player knows that if they go to Detroit they're going to be treated well. I want players to think the same thing about LA. It's the "changing the culture" part of the plan, and one that I agree with.
First you can call a dog a cat but that doesn't change what it is. Smyth has referred to how he will always be an Oiler at heart several times and how he wouldn't mind ending up there, its not a matter of opinion but simply a statement of fact.

As to the notion of dumping him on the worst team in the league again, if that is where he wants to go then it doesn't matter where they currently are in the standings. The day he was dealt from the Oilers is still considered a black day by allot of hockey fans in Canada and it was clearly a black day for Smyth. That is also a fact.

I dunno, you can believe whatever you like but the guy has said with his own words how much he loved his time in Edmonton and that he wouldn't mind returning there one day.

Would he rather be with a contender? That is a question for him so to take any position is pure speculation. I think he would rather stick out his contract and hope that he can win the cup with us but again, who knows?

I guess its like I said, I take issue with throwing the word "classy" around under these circumstances. There are several "classy" ways to handle every situation, its a matter of opinion.

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06-15-2011, 05:05 PM
  #141
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Got this from the Trade Rumors page...take it for what its worth...

During an interview with CKAC in Montreal, Jonathan Bernier himself said he heard some rumors that he could be dealt to the Flyers if they weren't able to close a deal with Ilya Bryzgalov.

Salary Cap speaking, Bernier would make much more sense to the Flyers and give Holmgren some much needed space to upgrade their team for next year.

How much weight do you put into this rumor seeing that it now comes from the player involved himself?

Discuss.

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06-15-2011, 05:07 PM
  #142
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I can't wait for the misinterpretation of the misinterpretation. By tomorrow we're going to be told by the unwashed masses that he wants to be traded to Philadelphia.

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06-15-2011, 05:08 PM
  #143
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Not much, considering he is looking at the same rumors we are Unless Dean himself told him that this was a possibility, which I doubt it. It isn't inconceivable, because it looks like the Flyers are open to trading Carter or Richards, but highly unlikely. Can't say whether I like it or not. Hard to turn down one of those players, but at the same time we could be giving away one of the most important players to the success of this franchise. If something happens to Quick, everything goes down the tubes. Not to mention the probability that Richards and Carter won't produce at such a high level on this team...

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06-15-2011, 05:14 PM
  #144
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If Bernier was to be traded, which I don't think is gonna happen, I still feel safe having Jones in the system in case Quick were to suddenly suck.

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06-15-2011, 05:39 PM
  #145
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If the Kings are going to improve the top 6 for this coming season, it's 2nd line center position that needs to be addressed more than anything. Penner/Smyth/Clifford/Parse/Richie is decent LW depth for now.

Smyth was injured (back spasms) for a good portion of last year, which hampered his production. He battled through it, and showed up when it counted. I don't like the idea of moving him over Penner simply because of the message it sends.

I though part of the "plan" was to change the culture around this organisation. I realize this is a business, but moving Smyth right now is kind of classless IMO.
The bold thoughts are spot on...Smyth can be a valuable mentor this season to both Schenn and possibly Loktionov, they need to learn ot be NHL players and there are few better than Smyth to teach them which is why I want Smyth on the 4th line with Schenn so when Stoll's contract expires he is ready to step in on the 2nd line.

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06-15-2011, 05:40 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Cook24 View Post
Got this from the Trade Rumors page...take it for what its worth...

During an interview with CKAC in Montreal, Jonathan Bernier himself said he heard some rumors that he could be dealt to the Flyers if they weren't able to close a deal with Ilya Bryzgalov.

Salary Cap speaking, Bernier would make much more sense to the Flyers and give Holmgren some much needed space to upgrade their team for next year.

How much weight do you put into this rumor seeing that it now comes from the player involved himself?

Discuss.
Take that for a grain of salt(maybe less).

If a deal were to go down, not going to happen, but just for arguments sake. JVR or Carter would have to be coming back.

Below is gonna make me sound like a hypocrite, so let me clarify. JVR did in fact score 21 goals last year, but I feel he has the upside to do a lot more. Being that he is just 22.

Here's why NOT some of the others:

Versteeg- We have enough 20 goal scorers.
Hartnell- See above.
Briere- Contract.
Richards- Captain. Not going anywhere.
Giroux- Pretty much deemed "untouchable".

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06-15-2011, 05:41 PM
  #147
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Anything is possible but I could only see it happening in a blockbuster type of deal. Richards or Carter would seemingly have to be involved in someway or another. Out of all of the rumors that have been being kicked around so far this summer JB being on the market is new to me.

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06-15-2011, 05:46 PM
  #148
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JVR in a Kings uniform. *drool....*

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Old
06-15-2011, 05:53 PM
  #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
First you can call a dog a cat but that doesn't change what it is. Smyth has referred to how he will always be an Oiler at heart several times and how he wouldn't mind ending up there, its not a matter of opinion but simply a statement of fact.

As to the notion of dumping him on the worst team in the league again, if that is where he wants to go then it doesn't matter where they currently are in the standings. The day he was dealt from the Oilers is still considered a black day by allot of hockey fans in Canada and it was clearly a black day for Smyth. That is also a fact.

I dunno, you can believe whatever you like but the guy has said with his own words how much he loved his time in Edmonton and that he wouldn't mind returning there one day.

Would he rather be with a contender? That is a question for him so to take any position is pure speculation. I think he would rather stick out his contract and hope that he can win the cup with us but again, who knows?

I guess its like I said, I take issue with throwing the word "classy" around under these circumstances. There are several "classy" ways to handle every situation, its a matter of opinion.
"One day."

Just because he wants to retire in Edmonton doesn't mean he wants to go there anytime soon. It doesn't matter anyways because that's a separate debate. My argument was based on the assumption that Ryan wants to be here in LA, and if that's the case then I don't like dumping him. Now if he didn't mind being traded that a different story.

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06-15-2011, 05:57 PM
  #150
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JVR showed flashes of dominance in the playoffs. He reminded me of Bobby Ryan.

I would do Bernier+ for JVR, but I doubt the Flyers would.

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