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(from summer 2010) Gagne for Tim Thomas

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Old
06-06-2011, 08:44 PM
  #326
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If we are dealing in facts then it wouldn't need to be explained that the Flyers had to go at least over three full calendar years to avoid using the Long-Term Injured Reserve and be under the yearly salary cap. This impacted them with daily space as I understand it. This daily space is not necessarily inconsequential in enabling the team to acquire a player via trade and hence not have to worry about incurring penalties the following year. Therefore, apart from the distraction of him trying to force a roster decision he did in fact impact the Flyers unnecessarily for a good amount of years cap wise.

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06-06-2011, 08:54 PM
  #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
If we are dealing in facts then it wouldn't need to be explained that the Flyers had to go at least over three full calendar years to avoid using the Long-Term Injured Reserve and be under the yearly salary cap. This impacted them with daily space as I understand it. This daily space is not necessarily inconsequential in enabling the team to acquire a player via trade and hence not have to worry about incurring penalties the following year. Therefore, apart from the distraction of him trying to force a roster decision he did in fact impact the Flyers unnecessarily for a good amount of years cap wise.
No it didn't affect them with daily cap space. It never affected the Flyers from acquring players in a trade. And it never caused the Flyers to have any carry over Cap penalties due to the Bonus Cushion. There was no distraction to the team from it either. As I said, it did not cause any serious cap issues for the Flyers.
A team doesn't need to be under the yearly salary Cap, it just needs to be Cap compliant.

So again, what was so ludicrous about the statement I made?

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06-06-2011, 09:34 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
No it didn't affect them with daily cap space. It never affected the Flyers from acquring players in a trade. And it never caused the Flyers to have any carry over Cap penalties due to the Bonus Cushion. There was no distraction to the team from it either. As I said, it did not cause any serious cap issues for the Flyers.
A team doesn't need to be under the yearly salary Cap, it just needs to be Cap compliant.

So again, what was so ludicrous about the statement I made?
CBA always causes confusion. My contention is it affected them daily in following sense:

For instance, instead of the CBA saying that the salary of a player placed on IR "doesn't count", they say "it counts, but it's replaceable". This is because teams don't technically get cap relief unless they're already pushing the limit and surprise the Flyers are always pushing the limit but that is another matter with respect to the GM and asset management.

For instance if the cap limit is $50M and a team that's $5M under the limit loses a $3M player to injury and replaces him with another $3M player, the team's cap number would still go up to $48M. At the trade deadline, they would only have $2M to spend.

If the same team had signed a $5M player the day before the injury, putting them right up against the cap, they would be allowed to replace the injured player and exceed the limit by $3M. Having Rathje doing the Primeau shtick precluded the Flyers from exercising such an option if they wanted to in certain respects...

This sounds convoluted what I'm trying to get across but maybe somebody can confirm or explain better or deny with some detail since this CBA crap gets confusing...

Anyway, maybe your statement wasn't ludicrous and the hyperbole wasn't warranted but saying Rathje's had basically a negligible effect with respect to the cap isn't accurate either.

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06-06-2011, 09:37 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
A player who was on LTIR the entire Season, and is expected to be on LTIR the next entire Season, doesn't have to be accounted for on the Cap during the off season.

Feel free to Email Matthew Weust for clarification at capgeek.
Myself: "Hello,

I had a question about LTIR in the offseason. For a player who was on LTIR the previous season and is expected to be on LTIR the following season (Ian Laperriere, in my example), does that player's caphit count in the offseason?"

Weust: "Yes, I believe it does, although we don't track the off-season cap. Hope that helps."

So I'm not sure where you were getting your info from.

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Old
06-06-2011, 09:47 PM
  #330
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Just to get somewhat back on topic about Thomas. Watching him shutout Vancouver is pretty impressive. If somehow Boston pulls out a cup victory and Thomas is a big reason..I want to see Holmgren say that the goaltending was "a product of the team."

Edit: Vancouver just potted one but on the 39th shot....I believe..still impressive

Edit II: So Thomas so far this series has stopped 104 of 108 shots...um yeah he's old and washed up..same with Recchi who potted two goals and was very good! But again Holmgren will say that the team is why Thomas is on fire in net .Thomas making situational saves also doesn't give confidence to the team offensively to score 8 goals!


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06-06-2011, 10:03 PM
  #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
If we are dealing in facts then it wouldn't need to be explained that the Flyers had to go at least over three full calendar years to avoid using the Long-Term Injured Reserve and be under the yearly salary cap. This impacted them with daily space as I understand it. This daily space is not necessarily inconsequential in enabling the team to acquire a player via trade and hence not have to worry about incurring penalties the following year. Therefore, apart from the distraction of him trying to force a roster decision he did in fact impact the Flyers unnecessarily for a good amount of years cap wise.
So you're saying using two amateur free agents in the final three games of a tight playoff race is a bad thing? And so is being forced to send Giroux to the minors to accommodate the day-to-day injury status of a defenseman? This is some highly advanced thinking going on here.

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06-06-2011, 10:30 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
You are to thinking as Michael Leighton is to goaltending.

so true!

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06-06-2011, 11:47 PM
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Just to get somewhat back on topic about Thomas. Watching him shutout Vancouver is pretty impressive. If somehow Boston pulls out a cup victory and Thomas is a big reason..I want to see Holmgren say that the goaltending was "a product of the team."

Edit: Vancouver just potted one but on the 39th shot....I believe..still impressive

Edit II: So Thomas so far this series has stopped 104 of 108 shots...um yeah he's old and washed up..same with Recchi who potted two goals and was very good! But again Holmgren will say that the team is why Thomas is on fire in net .Thomas making situational saves also doesn't give confidence to the team offensively to score 8 goals!
Ahh, Thomas only makes big saves in blowouts!

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Old
06-07-2011, 06:49 AM
  #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
CBA always causes confusion. My contention is it affected them daily in following sense:

For instance, instead of the CBA saying that the salary of a player placed on IR "doesn't count", they say "it counts, but it's replaceable". This is because teams don't technically get cap relief unless they're already pushing the limit and surprise the Flyers are always pushing the limit but that is another matter with respect to the GM and asset management.

For instance if the cap limit is $50M and a team that's $5M under the limit loses a $3M player to injury and replaces him with another $3M player, the team's cap number would still go up to $48M. At the trade deadline, they would only have $2M to spend.


If the same team had signed a $5M player the day before the injury, putting them right up against the cap, they would be allowed to replace the injured player and exceed the limit by $3M. Having Rathje doing the Primeau shtick precluded the Flyers from exercising such an option if they wanted to in certain respects...

This sounds convoluted what I'm trying to get across but maybe somebody can confirm or explain better or deny with some detail since this CBA crap gets confusing...

Anyway, maybe your statement wasn't ludicrous and the hyperbole wasn't warranted but saying Rathje's had basically a negligible effect with respect to the cap isn't accurate either.
Just so you know, I've spent a lot of time reading and learning the CBA. And I've talked to a lot of the experts on it to get clarification on issues. So I'm not just talking out of the blue here. Although I'm far from an expert on it.Your first example is incorrect. The team could have spent up to 3M over your imposed Upper Limit of 50M, so they would have had 5M to spend at the deadline and still have been Cap compliant. The Rathje situation didn't at all preclude the Flyers from exercising such an option.


So I'll repeat what I said. I said the Rathje situation didn't cause any serious Cap issues for the Flyers . So what I said wasn't ludicrous at all. So maybe before you make a statement like that to someone, maybe know where they're coming from and ask for clarification if you don't know what they're talking about.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost of Downie View Post
Myself: "Hello,

I had a question about LTIR in the offseason. For a player who was on LTIR the previous season and is expected to be on LTIR the following season (Ian Laperriere, in my example), does that player's caphit count in the offseason?"

Weust: "Yes, I believe it does, although we don't track the off-season cap. Hope that helps."

So I'm not sure where you were getting your info from.
Excellent. Now we have clarification on it. I was told by another reliable source that a player who was on LTIR the past Season and was expected to be on again the following Season, didn't have to be accounted for in the off season. Maybe he was incorrect.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fauxflex View Post
so true!

If you can't refute a poster's commentary with intelligent and informed opinion, You can always go personal! LOL


Last edited by VanSciver: 06-07-2011 at 06:59 AM.
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06-07-2011, 11:31 AM
  #335
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Can't see colors wins!

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06-07-2011, 02:42 PM
  #336
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I enjoyed reading through this thread. Good reincarnation!

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06-07-2011, 08:05 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
If you can't refute a poster's commentary with intelligent and informed opinion, You can always go personal! LOL
Pages and pages of posts went into making my post intelligent and informed. I guess it wasn't opinion though.

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06-15-2011, 10:13 PM
  #338
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SIGH!!!!! The irony and the insult.......just salt in the cupless wound. Please sign Bryzgalov and give us a better chance of doing what Boston and Thomas just accomplished...please!

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06-15-2011, 10:16 PM
  #339
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Homer: Hello Gagne, we want to trade you for Tim Thomas

Gagne: No.

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06-15-2011, 10:17 PM
  #340
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Epic Bump, Bro!

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06-15-2011, 10:19 PM
  #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
Homer: Hello Gagne, we want to trade you for Tim Thomas

Gagne: No.
UM Hello....we don't know what else could have been offered but anyway the point right now is the irony of it all. No sense rehashing everything else...that's all.

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06-15-2011, 10:26 PM
  #342
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With the way this banged up team played, Tim Thomas probably wouldn't have mattered. If anything his aggressive play would have doomed us since our crappy team defense wouldn't have covered him as well as the Bruins did.

having him last year, however...

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06-15-2011, 10:30 PM
  #343
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
With the way this banged up team played, Tim Thomas probably wouldn't have mattered. If anything his aggressive play would have doomed us since our crappy team defense wouldn't have covered him as well as the Bruins did.

having him last year, however...
Having anybody but LOL-eighton last year might have put us over the hump...certainly if we had a healthy Emery we would have had a great chance of ending our drought...more effin goalie irony and bad luck!

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06-16-2011, 12:19 AM
  #344
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Resurrecting this thread jumped the shark a while ago. Is there a thread about trading Ryne Sandberg floating around somewhere? I have some thoughts.

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06-16-2011, 12:26 AM
  #345
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Quite the exaggerator...pretty pertinent given what just transpired. I am sure your thoughts on Ryan Sandberg would be very insightful based on your readings....

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06-16-2011, 01:39 AM
  #346
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Quite the exaggerator...pretty pertinent given what just transpired. I am sure your thoughts on Ryan Sandberg would be very insightful based on your readings....
What if Gagne didn't want to go to Boston?

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06-16-2011, 05:41 AM
  #347
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Regardless of what thomas did this year, the flyers did the right thing not going for Thomas. At the time he was coming off multiple surgeries, looked a shadow of himself the season before, and was a massive injury risk on a 5 million a year contract.

If we had traded for him the entire board would of gone mental.

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06-16-2011, 06:11 AM
  #348
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Regardless of what thomas did this year, the flyers did the right thing not going for Thomas. At the time he was coming off multiple surgeries, looked a shadow of himself the season before, and was a massive injury risk on a 5 million a year contract.

If we had traded for him the entire board would of gone mental.
Agreed. Dude wasn't even the starter in the Playoffs last season.

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06-16-2011, 07:41 AM
  #349
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Quite the exaggerator...pretty pertinent given what just transpired. I am sure your thoughts on Ryan Sandberg would be very insightful based on your readings....
Not really... we should not have traded for Thomas at the time, and we did not trade for Thomas at the time. On top of that the "Gagne for Tim Thomas" title to this thread, which you keep resurrecting to stroke your own ego, is pure fantasy as Gagne was unwilling to go anywhere other than TB... as was established and resulted in a brutal trade.

Let it friggin go, dude. It was not going to happen.

And I'm old enough to remember Ryne Sandberg, btw.

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06-16-2011, 07:42 AM
  #350
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Agreed. Dude wasn't even the starter in the Playoffs last season.
Largely because Rask was absolutely stellar last year... Thomas had a good year last year, just not as good as Rask.

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