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Rangers or Islanders

View Poll Results: Who wins the Cup First
Rangers 101 80.80%
Islanders 24 19.20%
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Old
06-16-2011, 02:47 AM
  #26
Beacon
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The Rangers are three pieces away: 1C, 1st or 2nd LW, OD.

Hopefully MDZ becomes that OD the team needs. I have hope that Step becomes 1C. And hopefully Kreider becomes a top-6 forward, or alternatively Thomas becomes a scorers giving us a lot of strength on the right so the left could get away with something like Dubinsky, Wolski, Hagelin, Grachev.

The isles I think are at least 4-5 pieces away, though they will be closer with the addition of a top draft pick in a few days.

The rangers are closer.

Man, if the isles only drafted Heatley and kept Luongo instead of drafting DiPietro, they would have made the playoffs every year since 2002.

Not to mention all the great talent they gave away in the 90's (Chara and Spezza for Yashin, Bertuzzi and McCabe for Linden, Turgeon and Malakhov for Muller, etc). They have been easily the most mismanaged team in hockey, maybe all of sports.

Milbury was like a curse on their franchise.

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06-16-2011, 02:57 AM
  #27
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For me itīs the Rangers.

It would be really tough for me to see the piles get a cup before us!

I know they got strong offensive weapons, Okposo, grabner, Tavares and so on, but their D and their goalies arenīt build for a cupcontender atm, thatīs just my point of view...

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06-16-2011, 06:31 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
How do you figure a team that's missed the playoffs every year but one since the lockout is two pieces away, and the Rangers aren't? IMO the rangers have two huge voids: PP QB and 1st line center. After that you're talking about roles we can or have filled, perhaps not with the best guys, but good enough. For instance, some may say we need a crease-clearing defenseman. We have at least Michael Sauer.

The islanders have a lot of what-if's, as do we. To say they're only missing two pieces is making a lot of assumptions.
With a new building LI will become an attractive destination for FA's, Wang will need to start spending closer to the Max and not the floor to insure his season ticket base is high going into the new building.

Their offensive talent has more upside and they have the makings of good (not great) defense and they can get a "good" goalie via trade or FA.

Watching the Bruins/Nucks series you saw how well the Bruins Dmen box out the opposition in front of Thomas and how many hits their dmen make in the corners or behind the net...something the Rangers need to do much, much better. You pay the price consistently when you play in the Bruins end, I can't say the same thing for our team.

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06-16-2011, 07:37 AM
  #29
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With a new building LI will become an attractive destination for FA's, Wang will need to start spending closer to the Max and not the floor to insure his season ticket base is high going into the new building.

Their offensive talent has more upside and they have the makings of good (not great) defense and they can get a "good" goalie via trade or FA.

Watching the Bruins/Nucks series you saw how well the Bruins Dmen box out the opposition in front of Thomas and how many hits their dmen make in the corners or behind the net...something the Rangers need to do much, much better. You pay the price consistently when you play in the Bruins end, I can't say the same thing for our team.
Thank you, I have been trying to say the Rangers need to add more grit and of course more scoring but the answer I always get is the Rangers have enough grit and we just need scorers and that is mind blowing to me.

The Rangers defense is good but they are going to make you question your will to score a goal against them...that is where McIlrath comes into play because he is the only dman in our system who has that potiental and he is throw into every trade by the experts on this board...the Bruins have 4 guys like that, Chara, Seidenberg, McQuaid and Boychuck, hell even Ference plays that style the only thing with him is he is on the smaller side.

I used to work with a kid from Boston and I told him 2 years ago that the Bruins were very close to winning the cup.

The Rangers are building towards that but we are not there yet and adding Richards is not going to take us over the top.

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06-16-2011, 07:43 AM
  #30
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There's also a difference between grit and being dirty. Marchand punching Sedin in the face and Lucic punching Burrows in the back of the head is not grit.

I know what you mean, but you underestimate our defense (where our top 4 is entirely made out of big, gritty guys), our bottom 6, and our second line. Callahan and Dubinsky are gritty without being dirty. Prust is Prust. Fedotenko is another guy who is gritty without being dirty. If Boyle throws the body like he did in the first half of the season for this season against that's another bruising presence.

If the Bruin's were so much grittier than us we wouldn't have hung with them and won the season series, simple as that.

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Old
06-16-2011, 07:55 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
There's also a difference between grit and being dirty. Marchand punching Sedin in the face and Lucic punching Burrows in the back of the head is not grit.

I know what you mean, but you underestimate our defense (where our top 4 is entirely made out of big, gritty guys), our bottom 6, and our second line. Callahan and Dubinsky are gritty without being dirty. Prust is Prust. Fedotenko is another guy who is gritty without being dirty. If Boyle throws the body like he did in the first half of the season for this season against that's another bruising presence.

If the Bruin's were so much grittier than us we wouldn't have hung with them and won the season series, simple as that.
The Bruins got dirty when Burrows decided to get dirty and then the Rome hit brought out the rage in the Bruins and what ultimately led them to winning the Cup.

Cally, Prust, Feds are all gritty guys no doubt but that is about it and they are all small...Boyle, whom I thought made great strides last year for as big as he is, is not going to scare many people.

Defense is about making the other team pay for being in their zone and our dmen are very good but they are going to strike too much fear into the opposing forwards.

Who is our Lucic, who is our Horton, who is our Raffi Torres, our Max Lapierre.

Prust is the only true grinder/fighter on our team at the moment.

The Bruins won this series not because they are more talented or because they have more goal scorers but because when it was time to dig deep down in the trenches the real men stood out.

Burrows woke the sleeping angry giants and when he did...there was no turning back.

Put Marchand on our team and he is not nearly as effective...but put him on the next shift after Lucic is finished ruining peoples lives and all of a sudden, he has a little extra space on the ice.

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06-16-2011, 08:05 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
The Bruins got dirty when Burrows decided to get dirty and then the Rome hit brought out the rage in the Bruins and what ultimately led them to winning the Cup.

Cally, Prust, Feds are all gritty guys no doubt but that is about it and they are all small...Boyle, whom I thought made great strides last year for as big as he is, is not going to scare many people.

Defense is about making the other team pay for being in their zone and our dmen are very good but they are going to strike too much fear into the opposing forwards.

Who is our Lucic, who is our Horton, who is our Raffi Torres, our Max Lapierre.

Prust is the only true grinder/fighter on our team at the moment.

The Bruins won this series not because they are more talented or because they have more goal scorers but because when it was time to dig deep down in the trenches the real men stood out.

Burrows woke the sleeping angry giants and when he did...there was no turning back.

Put Marchand on our team and he is not nearly as effective...but put him on the next shift after Lucic is finished ruining peoples lives and all of a sudden, he has a little extra space on the ice.
I can agree with this to an extent since the Sedins just went invisible, but it's not like the Bruin's top 6 are all gritty second liners. I think the Bruin's offense has been underrated all series- they're talented.

The Blackhawks didn't win based on grit, though I guess you can say Byfuglien's presence helped immensely, they won because Patrick Kane and John Toews are very talented. We saw the same thing this year sans Byfuglien, where they almost beat the Nucks. I'm not saying we shouldn't add more grit, but i'm saying you can have guys like Marian Gaborik and Brad Richards, skill guys who don't bring the grit, if they don't pull a disappearing act like the Sedins. We don't need just tough guys, we need Brandon Dubinsky's and Milan Lucic's, guys who play with an edge but are actually talented. Adding another Prust, as much as I love Prust, doesn't really make us much of a different team.

Defense isn't just about making the other team pay. I don't care if Staal has a few hits a game, he's doing his job when guys as talented as Alex Ovechkin don't want to come down his side of the ice because they know how good he is. Ideally you want your defense to throw the body when necessary, but i'm fine with Mike Sauer suplexing a Penguin after the whistle. We saw a lot of that from Sauer this year, and if we can add an actual third pairing instead of something like Gilroy-McCabe I think our defense as a whole, toughness included, looks a lot better. Even a guy like MDZ plays with grit.

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Old
06-16-2011, 08:19 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
I can agree with this to an extent since the Sedins just went invisible, but it's not like the Bruin's top 6 are all gritty second liners. I think the Bruin's offense has been underrated all series- they're talented.

The Blackhawks didn't win based on grit, though I guess you can say Byfuglien's presence helped immensely, they won because Patrick Kane and John Toews are very talented. We saw the same thing this year sans Byfuglien, where they almost beat the Nucks. I'm not saying we shouldn't add more grit, but i'm saying you can have guys like Marian Gaborik and Brad Richards, skill guys who don't bring the grit, if they don't pull a disappearing act like the Sedins. We don't need just tough guys, we need Brandon Dubinsky's and Milan Lucic's, guys who play with an edge but are actually talented. Adding another Prust, as much as I love Prust, doesn't really make us much of a different team.

Defense isn't just about making the other team pay. I don't care if Staal has a few hits a game, he's doing his job when guys as talented as Alex Ovechkin don't want to come down his side of the ice because they know how good he is. Ideally you want your defense to throw the body when necessary, but i'm fine with Mike Sauer suplexing a Penguin after the whistle. We saw a lot of that from Sauer this year, and if we can add an actual third pairing instead of something like Gilroy-McCabe I think our defense as a whole, toughness included, looks a lot better. Even a guy like MDZ plays with grit.
I agree with everything you said.

I have no problem with Staal, I love him and think he is one of the best dmen in the league.

I would just like a John Erskine back there as well.

Boston has a bunch of talent but they all have the size to go along with it.

Putting Lucic and Horton with Krejic is brilliant.

Putting Clowe with Corture is brilliant.

That is the blend I am looking for...

Putting Richards with Gabby and AA or EC doesn't really have the right blend.

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Old
06-16-2011, 09:38 AM
  #34
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Well, this poll isn't really fair. You're comparing a rebuilding team that is still adding pieces to a team that should be able to make a Stanley Cup run if the General Manager can make some sound decisions.

The Rangers have the luxury of Henrik Lundqvist. What I mean by that is they don't have to formally enter a "win now" mode, where they jetisson prospects for established players.. just look at Tim Thomas. Goaltenders can perform at a high level up until their late 30's.

The problem is Glen Sather. When you're a team like the Rangers with endless resources, you can stray from the path when you have players calling on July 1st every year.

So far, he hasn't made the best of the resources he's had. His teams have accomplished next to nothing, and when you have a goaltender like Henrik, 2nd round exists shouldn't be the norm. Finals should be.

As for the Islanders, they are a young team with some budding young stars for the first time since they last built the foundation for their dynasty. Garth Snow doesn't have much money to spend, but he continues to build wisely and structure his cap for the "future", so that when he can spend, he can bring in the pieces.

If the Isles don't secure an arena deal, they will likely relocate anyways. So their future can never be considered as "solid" until they secure their whereabouts.

If August 1st proves to be that day, than we can finally say the Islanders enter the conversations with other NHL teams for the playoffs, etc.

But there's very little chance the Islanders could compete with the Rangers in a 7 game series in the playoffs as it stands right now. And that's not because one team is miles better than the other, it's because one is on solid footing, with the resources to continue to build, and the other is mainly focused on keeping salaries, money low and fielding a young team.

The recipe is very rarely "success" under those conditions.

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06-16-2011, 11:45 AM
  #35
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The Rangers will win a cup within the next 3 years. Maybe I'm a homer or I just believe too much in the kids coming up but the foundation is here for a solid club.
Win a Cup in the next 3 years? The Stanley Cup? Oh wait, you mean the Kitchener Rangers will win the Memorial Cup in the next 3 years. Gotchya'. I don't follow the OHL, so not sure if that is realistic, but the Rangers winning a Stanley Cup in the next 3 years simply is not realistic. Yeah, I think you are being a homer, which is fine. Nothing wrong with that.

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06-16-2011, 11:58 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
There's also a difference between grit and being dirty. Marchand punching Sedin in the face and Lucic punching Burrows in the back of the head is not grit.

I know what you mean, but you underestimate our defense (where our top 4 is entirely made out of big, gritty guys), our bottom 6, and our second line. Callahan and Dubinsky are gritty without being dirty. Prust is Prust. Fedotenko is another guy who is gritty without being dirty. If Boyle throws the body like he did in the first half of the season for this season against that's another bruising presence.

If the Bruin's were so much grittier than us we wouldn't have hung with them and won the season series, simple as that.
Maybe it's just me, but I want the guys that are punching the other guys in the face and in the back of the head.

I'd much rather perfer the dirty/gritty guy over the borderline gritty guy of which we have little.

The guys that I believe have grit on the Rangers are as follows:

Prust, Callahan, Dubinsky, Fedotenko, Sauer, Avery and to a lesser extent, Staal.

I'd like to see him add that element to his game. I don't consider Staal soft, but gritty? I'm not seeing much of it.

Other than those guys, I don't see much grit in the Rangers lineup

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06-16-2011, 12:11 PM
  #37
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Objectively...

1) The Rangers made the playoffs this past season, the Islanders did not.
2) The HFBoards organizational ranking had the Islanders at 6 and the Rangers at 7, the Rangers then acquired Tim Erixon which would easily flip them positions.

Between these two the Rangers have a better team now and better prospects now ready to push the team to the next level therefor the Rangers will reach the cup first.

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06-16-2011, 12:13 PM
  #38
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my decision is based on the sole fact that the islander organization is a disaster management wise. Charles Wang and Snow have made some big gaffs in the past few years and it doesn't seem to be getting better. As long as their front office is in shambles there is no way they will put a cup contender on the ice.
Snow has done pretty well IMO drafting wise. Wang has stepped out for the most part...15 year deal was wang. Not seeing big gaffs by Snow but Wang with the DP contract yes.

The key factor is if the Islanders willing to spend money? They say they offer money and no one accepts because of the building and such. Who knows if that is true.

Most players say Wang is a good owner, even when they are off of the team.

They are actually putting it together. We just need to get rid of DP. If you are paying attention they are progressing and a cup contender is very possible in a couple years.

Big question is ..does lundqvist stay sign again after having to carry this team on his shoulders year after year for nothing?

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06-16-2011, 12:26 PM
  #39
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I like their forward depth better

I like our Defence depth better

As long as we have a healthy and performing Lundqvist, we will have a better shot at the cup sooner.
This.

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06-16-2011, 12:30 PM
  #40
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Maybe it's just me, but I want the guys that are punching the other guys in the face and in the back of the head.

I'd much rather perfer the dirty/gritty guy over the borderline gritty guy of which we have little.

The guys that I believe have grit on the Rangers are as follows:

Prust, Callahan, Dubinsky, Fedotenko, Sauer, Avery and to a lesser extent, Staal.

I'd like to see him add that element to his game. I don't consider Staal soft, but gritty? I'm not seeing much of it.

Other than those guys, I don't see much grit in the Rangers lineup
That group isn't going to scare anyone, in fact it is downright scary that is all we have to offer.

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06-16-2011, 12:58 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
The Bruins got dirty when Burrows decided to get dirty and then the Rome hit brought out the rage in the Bruins and what ultimately led them to winning the Cup.

Cally, Prust, Feds are all gritty guys no doubt but that is about it and they are all small...Boyle, whom I thought made great strides last year for as big as he is, is not going to scare many people.

Defense is about making the other team pay for being in their zone and our dmen are very good but they are going to strike too much fear into the opposing forwards.

Who is our Lucic, who is our Horton, who is our Raffi Torres, our Max Lapierre.

Prust is the only true grinder/fighter on our team at the moment.

The Bruins won this series not because they are more talented or because they have more goal scorers but because when it was time to dig deep down in the trenches the real men stood out.

Burrows woke the sleeping angry giants and when he did...there was no turning back.

Put Marchand on our team and he is not nearly as effective...but put him on the next shift after Lucic is finished ruining peoples lives and all of a sudden, he has a little extra space on the ice.
Bullshut.

Marchand is a talent who has grit and needs no protection at all.

You never advocate getting grit. You always advocate getting fighters.

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06-16-2011, 01:03 PM
  #42
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Bullshut.

Marchand is a talent who has grit and needs no protection at all.

You never advocate getting grit. You always advocate getting fighters.
Yes, he needs no protection!

I wonder if he would have the same balls if he had Staal - Giradi on the ice with him as oppossed to say Adam McQuaid or Johny Boychuck or better yet, Zdeno Chara...

Listen, you pegged me as a goon lover, I get it...nothing I write will change the rage you have for me.

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06-16-2011, 01:15 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
There's also a difference between grit and being dirty. Marchand punching Sedin in the face and Lucic punching Burrows in the back of the head is not grit.

I know what you mean, but you underestimate our defense (where our top 4 is entirely made out of big, gritty guys), our bottom 6, and our second line. Callahan and Dubinsky are gritty without being dirty. Prust is Prust. Fedotenko is another guy who is gritty without being dirty. If Boyle throws the body like he did in the first half of the season for this season against that's another bruising presence.

If the Bruin's were so much grittier than us we wouldn't have hung with them and won the season series, simple as that.
We stomped the Caps in the regular season, look how far that got us.

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06-16-2011, 01:27 PM
  #44
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We stomped the Caps in the regular season, look how far that got us.
Exactly, the playoffs are a completely different animal. The bigger better team wore our the Canucks, rather simple to see.

I watched every minute of the Finals and the Bruins dominated the physical element of the series.

They also used their size to make the Sedins look ordinary.

If anyone thinks the Rangers can compete physically with the Bruins in a 7 game series...need to pass whatever they are smoking because I want some.

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06-16-2011, 01:28 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
There's also a difference between grit and being dirty. Marchand punching Sedin in the face and Lucic punching Burrows in the back of the head is not grit.

I know what you mean, but you underestimate our defense (where our top 4 is entirely made out of big, gritty guys), our bottom 6, and our second line. Callahan and Dubinsky are gritty without being dirty. Prust is Prust. Fedotenko is another guy who is gritty without being dirty. If Boyle throws the body like he did in the first half of the season for this season against that's another bruising presence.

If the Bruin's were so much grittier than us we wouldn't have hung with them and won the season series, simple as that.
That's playoff hockey...less is called and both teams took liberties before, during after the whistle.

Our Top 4 does not protect the front of the net the way the Bruins do, as i said earlier teams don't pay a price for playing in the Rangers end and that has to change.

And we took the season series from the Caps by a much bigger margin...Playoff Hockey Its Just Different.

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06-16-2011, 01:43 PM
  #46
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I think the Rangers will, but still not for some time. They (and the rest of the conference as well)are going to have to prove that they can get past an already good Penguins team that will be getting Crosby and Malkin back for next season.

No disrespect to Boston but they're not "the team to beat" in the East come next season imo.

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06-16-2011, 01:48 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Exactly, the playoffs are a completely different animal. The bigger better team wore our the Canucks, rather simple to see.

I watched every minute of the Finals and the Bruins dominated the physical element of the series.

They also used their size to make the Sedins look ordinary.

If anyone thinks the Rangers can compete physically with the Bruins in a 7 game series...need to pass whatever they are smoking because I want some.
You think Montreal and Tampa have more physical teams than the Rangers do? I know the habs didn't beat Boston, but it went 7 games and took OT to finally decide.

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06-16-2011, 01:54 PM
  #48
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You think Montreal and Tampa have more physical teams than the Rangers do? I know the habs didn't beat Boston, but it went 7 games and took OT to finally decide.
I don't even know how the Habs made the playoffs and I don't know how they took the Bruins to 7 games....

Tampa has is not overlly physical but they do have grinders...Downey, Malone, Thompson, Bergenheim, Hall and on defense Brewer, Hedman and Ohlund are all big boys.

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06-16-2011, 01:57 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
That group isn't going to scare anyone, in fact it is downright scary that is all we have to offer.
I agree. I'd very much like to do two things.

first, get those gritty/dirty players with talent into the line up

then employ a coach that understands that type of player and how to best utilize them.

Not sure Torts is that kind of coach.

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06-16-2011, 02:03 PM
  #50
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I agree. I'd very much like to do two things.

first, get those gritty/dirty players with talent into the line up

then employ a coach that understands that type of player and how to best utilize them.

Not sure Torts is that kind of coach.
True, but the only reason I would want to keep Torts around at this juncture is because he is committed to the kids...

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