HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Los Angeles Kings
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Roster Thoughts and Offseason Speculation for the 2011-2012 Season II

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-15-2011, 06:20 PM
  #151
etherialone
dialed in your mom
 
etherialone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Ether
Country: United Nations
Posts: 12,990
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
"One day."

Just because he wants to retire in Edmonton doesn't mean he wants to go there anytime soon. It doesn't matter anyways because that's a separate debate. My argument was based on the assumption that Ryan wants to be here in LA, and if that's the case then I don't like dumping him. Now if he didn't mind being traded that a different story.
He's running out of time. I can't see him playing for more than another two to three years tops especially when you consider that he has had a few surgeries.

I am not saying that Smyth wants to be dealt, only that he has said that he wants to end his career in Edm so I don't think he would feel any sense of betrayal if he were moved there. I would also say that since his initial trade from Edm (where he openly wept) that Smyth has to understand that the game is a business and that is likely the reason why he asked for an NMC for his last contract.

My point would be that Ryan wants to be wherever he is wanted so moving him wouldn't be a big issue to him. To us, maybe but to him not much is what I think.

etherialone is offline  
Old
06-15-2011, 06:55 PM
  #152
LAKings4ever
Registered User
 
LAKings4ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SoCal
Country: United States
Posts: 405
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
First you can call a dog a cat but that doesn't change what it is. Smyth has referred to how he will always be an Oiler at heart several times and how he wouldn't mind ending up there, its not a matter of opinion but simply a statement of fact.

As to the notion of dumping him on the worst team in the league again, if that is where he wants to go then it doesn't matter where they currently are in the standings. The day he was dealt from the Oilers is still considered a black day by allot of hockey fans in Canada and it was clearly a black day for Smyth. That is also a fact.

I dunno, you can believe whatever you like but the guy has said with his own words how much he loved his time in Edmonton and that he wouldn't mind returning there one day.

Would he rather be with a contender? That is a question for him so to take any position is pure speculation. I think he would rather stick out his contract and hope that he can win the cup with us but again, who knows?

I guess its like I said, I take issue with throwing the word "classy" around under these circumstances. There are several "classy" ways to handle every situation, its a matter of opinion.
One of the reasons Zues and Smyth were brought on board was to mentor the younger players and teach them what it takes to play in the NHL and be successful - Zues did his 4 yrs and when his contract expired he had done a good job and there is no reason for him to be brought back as this team has achieved a certain level of maturity and we have players to fill his spot.

Smyth may not be the player he once was, but he brings a level of workmanship that is still needed on this team. So trading him at this point may not be classless but doesn't hold true to the type of aptmosphere DL is trying to foster in this young team.

LAKings4ever is offline  
Old
06-15-2011, 07:04 PM
  #153
Kurrilino
Go Stoll Go
 
Kurrilino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,529
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Kurrilino
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings4ever View Post
One of the reasons Zues and Smyth were brought on board was to mentor the younger players and teach them what it takes to play in the NHL and be successful - Zues did his 4 yrs and when his contract expired he had done a good job and there is no reason for him to be brought back as this team has achieved a certain level of maturity and we have players to fill his spot.

Smyth may not be the player he once was, but he brings a level of workmanship that is still needed on this team. So trading him at this point may not be classless but doesn't hold true to the type of aptmosphere DL is trying to foster in this young team.
....... uhmmm.... jeahhh....
These 2 players would instantly jump into my mind if i have to dress
veterans to teach the youth successfull hockey.
missing on that list is Ivanans to teach successfull skating,
Avery for Character developement...
and Greene for creativity...

and i wonder where my Stanley cup is...

Kurrilino is offline  
Old
06-15-2011, 10:38 PM
  #154
driller1
Dry Island Reject
 
driller1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,365
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
....... uhmmm.... jeahhh....
These 2 players would instantly jump into my mind if i have to dress
veterans to teach the youth successfull hockey.
missing on that list is Ivanans to teach successfull skating,
Avery for Character developement...
and Greene for creativity...

and i wonder where my Stanley cup is...
Zeus- regarded as one of the better defensive shut down forwards in the game
Smyth- one of the hardest working players who always goes to the dirty areas

So basically.... when Simmonds comes out and credits Zeus for his development in regards to positioning, reads, and professionalism and Clifford cites Smyth as his on ice mentor you think that's worthless....

No wonder why people don't take your posts seriously around here.

driller1 is online now  
Old
06-15-2011, 11:27 PM
  #155
Martyros
Registered User
 
Martyros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Holly Hood
Country: Armenia
Posts: 5,436
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
....... uhmmm.... jeahhh....
These 2 players would instantly jump into my mind if i have to dress
veterans to teach the youth successfull hockey.
missing on that list is Ivanans to teach successfull skating,
Avery for Character developement...
and Greene for creativity...

and i wonder where my Stanley cup is...
Your posts used to be funny, now it's unbearable.

Martyros is offline  
Old
06-16-2011, 11:52 AM
  #156
Kurrilino
Go Stoll Go
 
Kurrilino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,529
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Kurrilino
Quote:
Originally Posted by driller1 View Post
Zeus- regarded as one of the better defensive shut down forwards in the game
Smyth- one of the hardest working players who always goes to the dirty areas

So basically.... when Simmonds comes out and credits Zeus for his development in regards to positioning, reads, and professionalism and Clifford cites Smyth as his on ice mentor you think that's worthless....

No wonder why people don't take your posts seriously around here.
Well there is a player who went from 16 goals and +22
to 14 goals and -2.
And this player tells you how great his developement is because of Handzus.

Then there is another player who scores 7 goals per season and
thanks Smyth for that.


Do you think these a great examples to present me ????

Kurrilino is offline  
Old
06-16-2011, 12:23 PM
  #157
The Tikkanen
Pest
 
The Tikkanen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Yorba Linda
Country: United States
Posts: 6,408
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to The Tikkanen
"The Mentor" was a position created by Dean Lombardi to cover up his mistakes. The difference between having a great player showing you the right way to play the game and a slow, over paid 3rd line center show you are great. The Kings have lacked great players for years and the young players have suffered as a result. When Blake, Sydor and Zhitnik were coming up as Kings they had Larry Robinson, Paul Coffey and Marty McSorley show them the ropes. You learn from future HOFers, not career long journeymen grinders on their last legs in the NHL. Dean is about to take his usual 3 week long nap anyway, he'll be back about July 10th ready to dive head first into the dumpster.

The Tikkanen is offline  
Old
06-16-2011, 12:24 PM
  #158
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
 
KINGS17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 15,548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
Well there is a player who went from 16 goals and +22
to 14 goals and -2.
And this player tells you how great his developement is because of Handzus.

Then there is another player who scores 7 goals per season and
thanks Smyth for that.


Do you think these a great examples to present me ????
While I wish Kopitar would be a little more aggressive in imposing his will in the offensive zone, he IS one of the best two-way centers in the game today.

That didn't happen by accident or Crawford's coaching while he was here. If you want a list of suspects that are responsible for his development it reads something like Lombardi, Terry Murray, Handzus, Smyth, and Williams. I happen to think it is a conspiracy.

KINGS17 is offline  
Old
06-16-2011, 12:27 PM
  #159
Ollie Weeks
Registered User
 
Ollie Weeks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sioux Lookout, NWO
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,710
vCash: 500
Are we blackballing Handzus yet? Should I run home and get my broom?

Ollie Weeks is offline  
Old
06-16-2011, 12:28 PM
  #160
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
 
KINGS17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 15,548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
"The Mentor" was a position created by Dean Lombardi to cover up his mistakes. The difference between having a great player showing you the right way to play the game and a slow, over paid 3rd line center show you are great. The Kings have lacked great players for years and the young players have suffered as a result. When Blake, Sydor and Zhitnik were coming up as Kings they had Larry Robinson, Paul Coffey and Marty McSorley show them the ropes. You learn from future HOFers, not career long journeymen grinders on their last legs in the NHL. Dean is about to take his usual 3 week long nap anyway, he'll be back about July 10th ready to dive head first into the dumpster.
Larry Robinson was on his last legs when he joined the Kings and made a ton of mistakes in his own zone. He probably was good in the room though, much like Smyth. Coffey? Don't know much about him as a mentor, but he really didn't stay long. McSorely not a HOF player, but yeah I liked him as a leader.

Smyth will probably be in the HOF someday.

KINGS17 is offline  
Old
06-16-2011, 12:45 PM
  #161
piston
Registered User
 
piston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Country: Denmark
Posts: 568
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to piston
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
"The Mentor" was a position created by Dean Lombardi to cover up his mistakes. The difference between having a great player showing you the right way to play the game and a slow, over paid 3rd line center show you are great. The Kings have lacked great players for years and the young players have suffered as a result. When Blake, Sydor and Zhitnik were coming up as Kings they had Larry Robinson, Paul Coffey and Marty McSorley show them the ropes. You learn from future HOFers, not career long journeymen grinders on their last legs in the NHL. Dean is about to take his usual 3 week long nap anyway, he'll be back about July 10th ready to dive head first into the dumpster.
I actually agree with the main point you are making. I don't understand the need to sign the Thorntons, McCauleys and Handzus's of the world to 'mentor' the kids about the 'right' way to play. I guess this has always been this franchises' greatest problem, the lack of a culture of success. Don't know any other way of fixing this except drafting great talent, something DL has excelled at.

piston is offline  
Old
06-16-2011, 12:55 PM
  #162
driller1
Dry Island Reject
 
driller1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,365
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
Well there is a player who went from 16 goals and +22
to 14 goals and -2.
And this player tells you how great his developement is because of Handzus.

Then there is another player who scores 7 goals per season and
thanks Smyth for that.


Do you think these a great examples to present me ????
Apparently you have no clue what 'mentoring' is. We all know Handzus and Smyth's best days are behind them. No argument here.

HOWEVER, those guys have gotten the job done in the past. They know mentally how to get it done, even if they aren't able to do so physically. Did you even watch Clifford play last year? Did you not see the improvement in his game throughout the year? Sure he only scored 7 goals, but he was a 19 yr old rookie. Heck, he had 3 in the playoffs. You think that improvement was just luck? Who do you think taught him to go hard to the front of the net? Hint: it wasn't Richardson. Cliffy's best days are ahead of him, and Smyth's mentorship accelerates the process. I guarantee you, 7 goals isn't going to be his career high.

driller1 is online now  
Old
06-16-2011, 01:05 PM
  #163
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
 
KINGS17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 15,548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by piston View Post
I actually agree with the main point you are making. I don't understand the need to sign the Thorntons, McCauleys and Handzus's of the world to 'mentor' the kids about the 'right' way to play. I guess this has always been this franchises' greatest problem, the lack of a culture of success. Don't know any other way of fixing this except drafting great talent, something DL has excelled at.
That and kids with sound character that will take the lead of the vets rather quickly and do things the "right way" from the get go. I am hoping that Schenn is one of those guys. All indications seem to be that he will be that type of young player.

I think when it comes to Thornton and McCauley signings, it's a case of if you can't get the high-end talent in the UFA market, you better at least get guys that do you some good in the room. Handzus had talent and smarts, so he was a win/win IMO.

KINGS17 is offline  
Old
06-16-2011, 01:50 PM
  #164
Duc620
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 931
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by piston View Post
I actually agree with the main point you are making. I don't understand the need to sign the Thorntons, McCauleys and Handzus's of the world to 'mentor' the kids about the 'right' way to play. I guess this has always been this franchises' greatest problem, the lack of a culture of success. Don't know any other way of fixing this except drafting great talent, something DL has excelled at.
Nobody needed or wanted Mark Recchi either. He would have had the same results with most Kings teams.... then, just drifted off into retirement after "not producing on the ice" and ridicule from fans who make jokes about GM's and coaches. Ask Bergeron and Marchand what Recci did for that team with his 43 year old legs and brain.

Ask yourself if you'd even think about him or the effect he had on their team if the Bruins lost the first round. Mentoring is real. It has a positive affect. We only notice it during Hollywood moments, tho.... The rest of the time its, "a waste of cap space and ice time".

Duc620 is offline  
Old
06-16-2011, 02:12 PM
  #165
TwoForRoughing
Let's do it again!
 
TwoForRoughing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UCLA, Los Angeles
Posts: 2,235
vCash: 500
Well what do ya know... Adam Deadmarsh is now asst. coach for the Avs.

TwoForRoughing is online now  
Old
06-16-2011, 02:22 PM
  #166
KingsFan7824
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,905
vCash: 500
Quote:
I don't understand the need to sign the Thorntons, McCauleys and Handzus's of the world to 'mentor' the kids about the 'right' way to play.
Mostly warm bodies. Sometimes just a need to fill out the roster. It's not that the Kings haven't signed quality free agents. Every now and then the Kings will sign a guy that can play a larger role on the team, not just a mentor. Schneider, Conroy, Demitra, Handzus, Scuderi, Mitchell. They're just not going to get the elite level talent, no matter who the GM is.

KingsFan7824 is offline  
Old
06-16-2011, 05:26 PM
  #167
LAKings4ever
Registered User
 
LAKings4ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SoCal
Country: United States
Posts: 405
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
....... uhmmm.... jeahhh....
These 2 players would instantly jump into my mind if i have to dress
veterans to teach the youth successfull hockey.
missing on that list is Ivanans to teach successfull skating,
Avery for Character developement...
and Greene for creativity...

and i wonder where my Stanley cup is...
When the Kings need a lecture on constuctive critisism I am sure they will be giving you a call .

LAKings4ever is offline  
Old
06-16-2011, 05:34 PM
  #168
LAKings4ever
Registered User
 
LAKings4ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SoCal
Country: United States
Posts: 405
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
Well there is a player who went from 16 goals and +22
to 14 goals and -2.
And this player tells you how great his developement is because of Handzus.

Then there is another player who scores 7 goals per season and
thanks Smyth for that.


Do you think these a great examples to present me ????
Mentoring isn't just about results, it is about how to deal with situations and make appropriate corrections in your life - there are no guaranteed results. I bet if asked Wayne Simmonds would not make any excuses for his play last year.

LAKings4ever is offline  
Old
06-16-2011, 08:21 PM
  #169
Kurrilino
Go Stoll Go
 
Kurrilino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,529
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Kurrilino
Quote:
Originally Posted by driller1 View Post
Apparently you have no clue what 'mentoring' is. We all know Handzus and Smyth's best days are behind them. No argument here.

HOWEVER, those guys have gotten the job done in the past. They know mentally how to get it done, even if they aren't able to do so physically. Did you even watch Clifford play last year? Did you not see the improvement in his game throughout the year? Sure he only scored 7 goals, but he was a 19 yr old rookie. Heck, he had 3 in the playoffs. You think that improvement was just luck? Who do you think taught him to go hard to the front of the net? Hint: it wasn't Richardson. Cliffy's best days are ahead of him, and Smyth's mentorship accelerates the process. I guarantee you, 7 goals isn't going to be his career high.
Well if it comes to mentoring, a couple of people cross my mind.......

Datsyuk and Zetterberg mentored by Hull, Shanahan and Yzerman.
This what i call mentoring... they pass all of their experience plus their hockey knowledge to the youn guns in Detroit.

Lemieux and Crosby.............

Gueri, Williams and Staal

St.Louis Lecavalier and Stamkos


Now we have a group of Hull, Shanahan, Yzerman, Lemieux,
St.Louis Lecavalier

The Kings mentors so far... Armstrong, Smyth, Handzus


Does anyone see a difference between these groups ???
Or does anyone at least understand what i try to say

BTW the prospects these days are educated enough to crush the net.
They don't need "sniper" Smyth to tell them.

If that wouldn't be that easy we hire Blake again to tell Doughty and JJ "hey guys try to shoot into the goal"
We hire Pavel Bure who tells the guys "Boys skate faster" and bring back Gretzky who tells the guys to pass to the open linemate.....

Serious....
what we need are quality mentors....... someone like Williams should take over this role.
I don't have any idea what Smyth could teach the young guys if it comes to hockey.
He is the prototype of an anti hockey player.

He has lots of meaningless gold medals from games without any competition
and never won anything of value. But he signed a contract over 6 mill.

These are exactly the players i don't want on the Kings roster.

I want high skilled guyswho are hockey smart and creative.
Let the other teams have the roleplayer who never win anything.

I want a winning mentality not a hard working mentality.


Last edited by Kurrilino: 06-16-2011 at 08:29 PM.
Kurrilino is offline  
Old
06-16-2011, 08:37 PM
  #170
Kurrilino
Go Stoll Go
 
Kurrilino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,529
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Kurrilino
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
"The Mentor" was a position created by Dean Lombardi to cover up his mistakes. The difference between having a great player showing you the right way to play the game and a slow, over paid 3rd line center show you are great. The Kings have lacked great players for years and the young players have suffered as a result. When Blake, Sydor and Zhitnik were coming up as Kings they had Larry Robinson, Paul Coffey and Marty McSorley show them the ropes. You learn from future HOFers, not career long journeymen grinders on their last legs in the NHL. Dean is about to take his usual 3 week long nap anyway, he'll be back about July 10th ready to dive head first into the dumpster.
This, this and this.....................

we are done with excuses..........

I don't know it's just me but other teams "Locker Room Guys" score 40 goals per season and win "Stanley Cups"

I'm just tired of the Rasmussens, Randy Robbitailes, Smyth, Handzus, Amrstrongs and Willsies...................
Where the hell does Lombardi get the idea from that these guys bring in winning mentality and hockey knowledge ???

Kurrilino is offline  
Old
06-16-2011, 08:40 PM
  #171
driller1
Dry Island Reject
 
driller1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,365
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post


BTW the prospects these days are educated enough to crush the net.
They don't need "sniper" Smyth to tell them.

I don't have any idea what Smyth could teach the young guys if it comes to hockey.
He is the prototype of an anti hockey player.

He has lots of meaningless gold medals from games without any competition
and never won anything of value. But he signed a contract over 6 mill.

These are exactly the players i don't want on the Kings roster.

I want high skilled guyswho are hockey smart and creative.
Let the other teams have the roleplayer who never win anything.

I want a winning mentality not a hard working mentality.
I see your funny side has returned

driller1 is online now  
Old
06-16-2011, 08:42 PM
  #172
Kurrilino
Go Stoll Go
 
Kurrilino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,529
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Kurrilino
Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Larry Robinson was on his last legs when he joined the Kings and made a ton of mistakes in his own zone. He probably was good in the room though, much like Smyth. Coffey? Don't know much about him as a mentor, but he really didn't stay long. McSorely not a HOF player, but yeah I liked him as a leader.

Smyth will probably be in the HOF someday.
And what makes you think that?

Kurrilino is offline  
Old
06-16-2011, 09:52 PM
  #173
tantrum4*
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Kelowna, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,336
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
And what makes you think that?
Hey buddy, if you hate everything about the Kings and all their players, coaches and management, why the hell do you consider yourself a fan? Why bother coming on here only to complain about them? Every post I've EVER read from you is negative. I don't get why you waste your time since nothing they ever do will be good enough for you. Or do you just like to complain just for the hell of it?

tantrum4* is offline  
Old
06-16-2011, 10:23 PM
  #174
Martyros
Registered User
 
Martyros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Holly Hood
Country: Armenia
Posts: 5,436
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tantrum4 View Post
Hey buddy, if you hate everything about the Kings and all their players, coaches and management, why the hell do you consider yourself a fan? Why bother coming on here only to complain about them? Every post I've EVER read from you is negative. I don't get why you waste your time since nothing they ever do will be good enough for you. Or do you just like to complain just for the hell of it?
the guy has every right to throw a tantrum (no pun intended) about his own team, which is why i never go out of my way to insult him, he just wants to see his team succeed. There's always going to be something to complain about, that's how a hockey fan is....beyond that, that's how regular people are, life is great right now with all these electronics and appliances we didn't have back then, but guess what? MORE COMPLAINING!

Martyros is offline  
Old
06-16-2011, 10:34 PM
  #175
KingsCourt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,543
vCash: 500
Anyone hear this rumour about TJ oshie to kings?

KingsCourt is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:55 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.