I think it had a lot to do with Burke thinking he was stealing Kessel for the 30th pick in the next two drafts. Burke's ego is the only thing that gets in the way, he's a good negotiator.
The cap situation, while annoying, is not a "be all, end all". New Jersey and New York have proven that the cap doesn't really exist. They could have buried Sturm in the minors.
I don't know if that's entirely true but I do agree that Burke's hubris played a role in that calamity. However, it was clear that a Kessel trade was a strong possibility before negotiations dragged on and it was evident that Kessel wanted more money than they were willing to pay him.
I also forgot to mention that according to Chiarelli, Kessel did make a request to be traded as well.
He summarized his motivations for the trade the next day:
"This trade is really about two things. One, it's about a player who did not want to play in Boston. Two, it's about the threat or the perceived threat of an offer sheet."
To bring it back to the original point, attaining draft picks weren't part of his main motivation for getting rid of Kessel (although it ended up being a nice perk in the end).
Well now and then (summer of 2009) are two different things. You think Cammy and Gionta signed in Montreal to play with 37 point Pleckanec?
Yeah exactly. I'm sure money was a factor, but if they thought the Habs would suck those guys would have been well paid to play elswhere, I think I read last year that Cammy was offered more to play in Toronto but chose Montreal.
People here love to crap on Gomez but compare Gio's years with Gomez to years without him...even this year when Gomer had a crappy year.
The Ruins Traded Kessel for 2 1rst picks. In the top 10 range when they were cup contenders. That is what i mean.
You can't compare that with trading Plekanec/Cammy for a top 5 right now.
The primary reason they moved Kessel was that he wanted a big contract and Boston wasn't too enamored with his game outside goal scoring, he didn't fit the type of player they like, character, work ethic and playing at both ends. Cammy and Plekanec are guys the Habs don't want to be without and they are definitely not looking to move either.
Also, the fact that they got the #2 pick had some element of luck...though getting the Toronto picks made it a pretty safe bet for top 10.
Trading Halak for Eller is closer to the Kessel situation than a potential Cammy/Plekanec for top 5 pick type deal. Though Halak was moved more because the 2 RFA goalies didn't want to be #2 so one had to go.
The two guys at play in the Habs if I were either teams would be Plek and Cammy. Now Huberdeau won't be there at #5 and as such if I want to get him I would offer Plek. At #5 that's where Couturier may be available and Cammy would be the guy to use for a trade. But I wouldn't get rid of Plek for Couturier.
Plek for Huberdeau
Cammy for Couturier
Not a chance Gauthier is going to blow up his team for Couturier,if the plan is to rebuild in 2-3 years,then possibilities are there.The Habs should have beaten Boston this year,blowing up the team when they are that close hmmmm!
Not a chance Gauthier is going to blow up his team for Couturier,if the plan is to rebuild in 2-3 years,then possibilities are there.The Habs should have beaten Boston this year,blowing up the team when they are that close hmmmm!
Trading Gio would only mean we have to find 2 other top 6 forward, instead of just one.
And those top 6 wingers do not grow on trees, I gather that trading a small player could make space for a larger one, but I don't like that deal.
Makes us weaker now for a potentially good player later.
The Habs are in no position to trade any of their veteran offensive players, especially their captain. Do people forget that the point of hockey is to win games, not to stockpile flashy prospects? Everyone has been clamouring about getting more scoring wingers on the team, and you want to trade away one of our top 2 goal scorers for futures?
Couturier has bust written all over him. He most likely going to be the next Pouliot.
Couturier is actually a very safe pick, his game couldn't be any more different than Pouliot. His downside is somebody like Weiss but at 6'4". His upside is somebody like E.Staal. The reason he has slipped is his skating hasn't come along the last 2 years as anticipated.
Trading Gio would only mean we have to find 2 other top 6 forward, instead of just one.
And those top 6 wingers do not grow on trees, I gather that trading a small player could make space for a larger one, but I don't like that deal.
Makes us weaker now for a potentially good player later.
I think DD is really close to performing at the level of what Gionta gives us only at a much cheaper cost. They are the same size, can both work the PP & PK, and both are workaholics who compete game in and game out. DD has way better vision and passing skills though.
A line of Patches - Gomez - DD is no worse or smaller than a line of
Patches - Gomez - Gionta.
It might even be better since we know DD and Patches play well together.
Cammy -- Pleks -- XXX
Patches -- Gomez -- DD
XXX -- Eller -- AK
Moen -- XXX -- Darche/White/Pyatt
Gionta is an expendable to me, although I don't know the details of his NTC.
The Habs are in no position to trade any of their veteran offensive players, especially their captain. Do people forget that the point of hockey is to win games, not to stockpile flashy prospects? Everyone has been clamouring about getting more scoring wingers on the team, and you want to trade away one of our top 2 goal scorers for futures?
If you look at maybe getting Huberdeau or Couturier with the 5th pick overall. I can see the habs giving up 1 of (Eller/Leblanc/Kristo) as well as maybe Weber and our first to move up.
Other than Crosby who obviously is not French their hasn't been a Top 5 star coming out of the Q since Vinny which is a long time ago. I am English but still can see the x-factor in drafting one of the top prospects from Quebec. Either of the two may hit or miss but then again that is what the draft is. I would take a shot at either of them if the opportunity arises. We might not get a chance again for years. If either/or both turn out to be stars who wants to listen for the next 15 year that the habs did nothing to try and obtain them.
I think DD is really close to performing at the level of what Gionta gives us only at a much cheaper cost. They are the same size, can both work the PP & PK, and both are workaholics who compete game in and game out. DD has way better vision and passing skills though.
A line of Patches - Gomez - DD is no worse or smaller than a line of
Patches - Gomez - Gionta.
It might even be better since we know DD and Patches play well together.
Cammy -- Pleks -- XXX
Patches -- Gomez -- DD
XXX -- Eller -- AK
Moen -- XXX -- Darche/White/Pyatt
Gionta is an expendable to me, although I don't know the details of his NTC.
Desharnais so far has struggled as soon as he is put in a tough matchup against top lines and top d-men. Gionta produces 30 goals a year under those circumstances, that's why you can't measure 3rd line production directly vs 1st line.
The Habs are in no position to trade any of their veteran offensive players, especially their captain. Do people forget that the point of hockey is to win games, not to stockpile flashy prospects? Everyone has been clamouring about getting more scoring wingers on the team, and you want to trade away one of our top 2 goal scorers for futures?
If you look at maybe getting Huberdeau or Couturier with the 5th pick overall. I can see the habs giving up 1 of (Eller/Leblanc/Kristo) as well as maybe Weber and our first to move up.
Other than Crosby who obviously is not French their hasn't been a Top 5 star coming out of the Q since Vinny which is a long time ago. I am English but still can see the x-factor in drafting one of the top prospects from Quebec. Either of the two may hit or miss but then again that is what the draft is. I would take a shot at either of them if the opportunity arises. We might not get a chance again for years. If either/or both turn out to be stars who wants to listen for the next 15 year that the habs did nothing to try and obtain them.
Fleury went #1.
I could care less about hearing people complain about the Habs notgetting Q stars...it's about winning. Trading a 1st plus Weber and Eller LeBlanc or Kristo would be terrible asset mangement to get a #5 pick. You're not trading up to get Ovechkin or Crosby, you're trading the farm for Kessel or Weiss...those deals usually turn out very bad.
The Habs are in no position to trade any of their veteran offensive players, especially their captain. Do people forget that the point of hockey is to win games, not to stockpile flashy prospects? Everyone has been clamouring about getting more scoring wingers on the team, and you want to trade away one of our top 2 goal scorers for futures?
I think if we get Markov back then our team scoring will go up. I also think Patches & DD can form a 2nd line with Gomez. We have enough veteran leadership on this team with Gill, Gorges, Markov, Cammy, Pleks and Gomez that it isn't an issue.
In any case, this team is being built from the goalie out. We still need improvements on our D, and we still need a winger for the Cammy-Pleks line so that AK can play with Eller.
I don't think losing Gionta would hurt that much, but I also think it's a pipe dream that he'll ever be traded. It's more wishful thinking than anything.
Snow gives the same spiel every year how he is is willing to trade the 5th overall for the right price. In the case of the Canadiens I am guessing the "right price" starts at Subban
Desharnais so far has struggled as soon as he is put in a tough matchup against top lines and top d-men. Gionta produces 30 goals a year under those circumstances, that's why you can't measure 3rd line production directly vs 1st line.
Hardly. Gionta has scored 25, 22, 20, 28, 29 goals over the last 5 seasons. That averages to 24.8 goals a year. His last two years with us are actually above average seasons for him. That's because he gets around 21- 22 minutes a night with us, while in NJ he was getting around 17-18 minutes. He plays about 4-6 minutes more a game for us than he did for NJ. He is a 45 - 48 pt. player who is getting paid $5 million.
He had one big year after the lay-off when he scored 48 goals, but that was an anomaly. Everyone had big years that year and then the game adjusted to the new rules.
The year before the lock-out he had 21 goals. He's a good guy and I like him a lot, but he's expendable.
Hardly. Gionta has scored 25, 22, 20, 28, 29 goals over the last 5 seasons. That averages to 24.8 goals a year. His last two years with us are actually above average seasons for him. That's because he gets around 21- 22 minutes a night with us, while in NJ he was getting around 17-18 minutes. He plays about 4-6 minutes more a game for us than he did for NJ. He is a 45 - 48 pt. player who is getting paid $5 million.
He had one big year after the lay-off when he scored 48 goals, but that was an anomaly. Everyone had big years that year and then the game adjusted to the new rules.
The year before the lock-out he had 21 goals. He's a good guy and I like him a lot, but he's expendable.
You can't have it both ways...you can't exclude the 48 goal year and include the 25 22 and 20 years.
Since he's been with us he's scored 57 in 143 games(0.40 goals per game), that's pretty damn good and worth the 5 mil.
Is he expendable? Sure, just like everybody else is...there isn't a player in the NHL that is immoveable, but trading Gionta for an 18 year old 3-5 years from being ready and with no guarantee of even being as good as him would be a very poor decision.
I LOVE Desharnais but he cannot replace Gionta at this point. Gionta just scored 29 goals and he is good in the playoffs.
Lots of players in the top five bust. Even if we selected a good player it would be a while before he would be able to replace Gionta's production.
EDIT: Not to mention while we waited for this kid to possibly show his stuff all of the players we have now would age, Markov and Cammalleri for instance. We have a good team, I think we should be adding players and shooting for the cup.
