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06-16-2011, 01:44 PM
  #126
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by HabbyGilmore View Post
Huberdeau will be gone before 5.. should go first imo.. most underated of the players in the top 5, the guy is going to be insanely good.
How can he be underrated after the Memorial Cup, plus being rated like 3rd overall by most?

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06-16-2011, 01:47 PM
  #127
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If anything, Sean Couturier is the one that's underrated. He's gonna be quite a player.

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06-16-2011, 01:50 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by WTFpineapple View Post
If anything, Sean Couturier is the one that's underrated. He's gonna be quite a player.
His Work Ethic has ??? . He will be a Joe Thornton lite.

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06-16-2011, 01:52 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by CammerScores View Post
The Islanders are willing to give up the 5th overall pick for an impact veteran player.

Newsday.com http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey...1.2954103?qr=1

and

My Point Blank http://www.islanderspointblank.com/2...ten-to-offers/

I would love to get that pick. I wonder what they consider an impact veteran player to be?

If they need a leader, I'd do Gionta & 17th.
What are the Isles thinking? Didn't they learn their mistakes from last time? What do they need a vet for? Just rebuild the team properly.

We should be all over this.

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06-16-2011, 02:31 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
How can he be underrated after the Memorial Cup, plus being rated like 3rd overall by most?
well kind of my point.. amazing Mem Cup run and yes he's rated 3rd overall.. or 4th something like that but all I mean is underated in the fact I think he's the best pick of the lot, yes even better then RNH, maybe not at this point in their careers over even maybe at this point.. but for the long term Hooby Dooby Doo will be the best of the bunch I will almost garuntee it.

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06-16-2011, 02:41 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
You can't have it both ways...you can't exclude the 48 goal year and include the 25 22 and 20 years.

Since he's been with us he's scored 57 in 143 games(0.40 goals per game), that's pretty damn good and worth the 5 mil.

Is he expendable? Sure, just like everybody else is...there isn't a player in the NHL that is immoveable, but trading Gionta for an 18 year old 3-5 years from being ready and with no guarantee of even being as good as him would be a very poor decision.
I didn't exclude the 48 goal year in his average, I just used the last 5 seasons to tally his average to see how he is currently performing. The 48 goal season was 6 years ago. That was his best season. His second best season was the 29 goals that he scored for us last year.

He's played 7 seasons of 60+ games (his first two years he played less than 60 games):

He scored: 21, 48, 25, 22, 20, 28, 29 over those 7 seasons. That's in order. The 48 goal season is an obvious outlier in his career. With that included, his career average rises to 27.7 goals. That still doesn't make him a 30 goal scorer.

Yes, he's been good with us over the last 2 years, but he's replaceable not with an 18-year-old player, but to free up some of that money to go after some players that can add something different - like size - to this team. We've got the small but skilled needs more than covered.

Philadelphia needs to cut costs so we should pursue Hartnell, or Brouwer in Chicago. It would put us in the running for guys like Laich, Bieksa, and Kopecky in free agency, although we still need to leave some money for next year for Subban, Eller and Price.

It would be great if we went after some Group 2s. Parise, Callahan, Dubinsky, Stamkos, Doughty, Weber, and Yandle are all unsigned. There's even more in the 2nd tier that could help us as well.

It's a risk to trade him, but I don't think not having him in the line-up would be as big of a loss that you seem to think.

But, like I said in another post, I doubt it happens because it seems Gionta has a pretty solid NTC and he is the team captain.

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06-16-2011, 03:40 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CammerScores View Post
I didn't exclude the 48 goal year in his average, I just used the last 5 seasons to tally his average to see how he is currently performing. The 48 goal season was 6 years ago. That was his best season. His second best season was the 29 goals that he scored for us last year.

He's played 7 seasons of 60+ games (his first two years he played less than 60 games):

He scored: 21, 48, 25, 22, 20, 28, 29 over those 7 seasons. That's in order. The 48 goal season is an obvious outlier in his career. With that included, his career average rises to 27.7 goals. That still doesn't make him a 30 goal scorer.

Yes, he's been good with us over the last 2 years, but he's replaceable not with an 18-year-old player, but to free up some of that money to go after some players that can add something different - like size - to this team. We've got the small but skilled needs more than covered.

Philadelphia needs to cut costs so we should pursue Hartnell, or Brouwer in Chicago. It would put us in the running for guys like Laich, Bieksa, and Kopecky in free agency, although we still need to leave some money for next year for Subban, Eller and Price.

It would be great if we went after some Group 2s. Parise, Callahan, Dubinsky, Stamkos, Doughty, Weber, and Yandle are all unsigned. There's even more in the 2nd tier that could help us as well.

It's a risk to trade him, but I don't think not having him in the line-up would be as big of a loss that you seem to think.

But, like I said in another post, I doubt it happens because it seems Gionta has a pretty solid NTC and he is the team captain.
Did you really just compare Callahan and Dubinsky to Yandle, Stamkos, Weber, Boughty and Parise? Ouch.

Yes, it would be great to go after them, but how much do you think it's gonna cost the Habs? Alot more than you're willing to pay. Forget the Leblanc kristo and a 2nd. We're talking Subban and Price to get a hold of either of those players (excluding Callahan and Dubinsky, of course).

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06-16-2011, 07:56 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Kovatar View Post
Trading Cammy for a 5th is insane. Like a previous user said, he is clutch in the playoffs. Montreal is close to being a cup contender and parting with Cammy will push us back 2/3 years. A reasonable offer for NYI's 1st is Mtl's 1st and 2nd + Kristo + Pouliot. Nothing more.
cup contender WTF R U SMOKIN

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Old
06-16-2011, 08:27 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
What are the Isles thinking? Didn't they learn their mistakes from last time? What do they need a vet for? Just rebuild the team properly.

We should be all over this.
Isn't that how you rebuild? Draft, and use your draft picks for some established players when possible. I don't see how drafting low year after year is going to help if you have no other tools to help the young players.

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06-16-2011, 08:40 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Isn't that how you rebuild? Draft, and use your draft picks for some established players when possible. I don't see how drafting low year after year is going to help if you have no other tools to help the young players.
I agree. They have a bunch of really good young talent but no veteran stars to complement them. This is a good spot to get a top player. I f i were them, i would go looking for a top end d-man. They already proved last year that they could score goals--defense is their big problem.

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06-16-2011, 10:52 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by geeman View Post
cup contender WTF R U SMOKIN
No need to be rude, we're not that far. Not far enough to trade veterans and start over.

We made the conference finals 2 years ago after beating the east's top2 teams and we were one little goal from beating the stanley cup winners this year. All this while missing key players.

Its not a stretch to say that a healthy Habs team could win it all with some luck (all cup winners need a fair share of luck anyways).

I'd rather have 10% chance to win the cup each year than 0% with great prospects. Cammalleri is a great playoff performer, trading him is going to be that much harder to get success in the postseason. If not of Cammy we lose in the first round two years ago year and we definitely do not bring Boston to game 7 overtime this year.

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Old
06-17-2011, 12:29 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Richiebottles View Post
Taken from the Main Board

Quote:
For the first time since the Collapse-and-Rebuild began in 2008, the Islanders are dangling their first round draft pick as trade bait. NHL sources have told Point Blank that general manager Garth Snow will listen to offers for the fifth overall pick in the 2011 draft.

The team is determined to upgrade the current roster in order to make next year’s playoffs. Snow, chief deputy Doug Weight and owner Charles Wang have prioritized adding at least one productive and experienced forward capable of shifting the slow and steady rebuild into overdrive. If the right player is made available, the Islanders will not hesitate to relinquish their rights to draft a talented 18-year-old prospect on the draft floor in Minnesota on Friday night, June 24.

http://www.islanderspointblank.com/2...ten-to-offers/
I would be aggresive with an offer for the 5th pick if Couturier is on the board. Not too often get a chance to acquire a big guy like that who can score. A cross between a Jordan Staal and Brendan Shanahan I have Couturier at. I would offer up Plekanec. Quite a few options the Habs would have to replace Plekanec's points. Moving his contract allows the Habs to venture into free agency or a big trade. Or maybe the added ice time will allow a Desharnais or Eller to take their game to another level.

If Couturier is not available at 5 either Larsson or Landeskog will be as fairly sure Huberdeau and Nugent-Hopkins be gone by 5th. I would offer up Cammy for either. Or pick #17 plus Kostitsyn and another player. Or Gorges straight up for 5th.

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06-17-2011, 01:25 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by FiveForDrawingBlood View Post
I would be aggresive with an offer for the 5th pick if Couturier is on the board. Not too often get a chance to acquire a big guy like that who can score. A cross between a Jordan Staal and Brendan Shanahan I have Couturier at. I would offer up Plekanec. Quite a few options the Habs would have to replace Plekanec's points. Moving his contract allows the Habs to venture into free agency or a big trade. Or maybe the added ice time will allow a Desharnais or Eller to take their game to another level.

If Couturier is not available at 5 either Larsson or Landeskog will be as fairly sure Huberdeau and Nugent-Hopkins be gone by 5th. I would offer up Cammy for either. Or pick #17 plus Kostitsyn and another player. Or Gorges straight up for 5th.
Milbury is no longer GM of the Islanders, no GM in his right mind would trade a 5th overall for Gorges

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Old
06-17-2011, 05:49 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by dcal64 View Post
Milbury is no longer GM of the Islanders, no GM in his right mind would trade a 5th overall for Gorges
If RNH, Couturier, Huberdeau and Larsson gone by 5 talent starting to drop off, Isles won't get the big return. Get more than Gorges but hugely more

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Old
06-17-2011, 06:45 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by geeman View Post
cup contender WTF R U SMOKIN
The team that needed 7 games and 3 OT's just won the cup, the Habs can't be that far off. Last year they made the conference finals. In the NHL about 10-12 teams have a shot each year...wake up and smell the coffee.

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06-17-2011, 07:30 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
The team that needed 7 games and 3 OT's just won the cup, the Habs can't be that far off. Last year they made the conference finals. In the NHL about 10-12 teams have a shot each year...wake up and smell the coffee.
For the first time in years, we actually have franchise players. Price, Subban. Pacioretty and Eller will IMO, be stars. Plekanec, Cammalleri and Gionta have several good years left.

If Gauthier continues to build around this core, which he's done a great job of IMO, we can definitely contend within the next few years. Really though, anyone who makes the playoffs is a 'contender'.

Although we lost to Boston in round 1, IMO we actually played better these past playoffs than the year before when we made the semis. Sometimes the difference is just a bounce here and there.

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06-17-2011, 07:37 AM
  #142
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Some people in this thread are certifiably insane. Only on HF Boards is an unknown draft pick more valuable than proven players.

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06-17-2011, 07:43 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by MM425 View Post
Some people in this thread are certifiably insane. Only on HF Boards is an unknown draft pick more valuable than proven players.
On HF boards every #4-5-6 pick is another Vanek Price or Backstrom and none are a Chstov Pouliot Brendl Tkaczuk or Zheredev

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06-17-2011, 08:08 AM
  #144
dcal64
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Originally Posted by MM425 View Post
Some people in this thread are certifiably insane. Only on HF Boards is an unknown draft pick more valuable than proven players.
Wish people on this board would know a little about how supply/demand works, there's more demand for a top 5 pick than supply, so yes you will overpay.

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06-17-2011, 08:24 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by dcal64 View Post
Wish people on this board would know a little about how supply/demand works, there's more demand for a top 5 pick than supply, so yes you will overpay.
If that were the case, than why aren't teams lining up every year with their best offer for these picks? Why don't we see proven assets be traded for high picks more often?

High picks are valuable to the franchises that have them, yes but not nearly as valueable to everyone else as HF likes to think.

Being awarded a high pick due to position in the standings >>>> Having to give up assets for high picks.

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06-17-2011, 08:31 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by MM425 View Post
If that were the case, than why aren't teams lining up every year with their best offer for these picks? Why don't we see proven assets be traded for high picks more often?

High picks are valuable to the franchises that have them, yes but not nearly as valueable to everyone else as HF likes to think.

Being awarded a high pick due to position in the standings >>>> Having to give up assets for high picks.
Because the teams with top picks are usually only willing to trade them if somebody overpays. What is the point of a rebuilding team taking on a good player who will be UFA in 2-3 years when their young core matures. In the cap world having good young players on cheap contracts is part of the formula for winning. Also there are not many cup or playoff contenders wanting to move out proven players for kids...wether the value is right or not it rarely happens.

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06-17-2011, 09:24 AM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Because the teams with top picks are usually only willing to trade them if somebody overpays. What is the point of a rebuilding team taking on a good player who will be UFA in 2-3 years when their young core matures. In the cap world having good young players on cheap contracts is part of the formula for winning. Also there are not many cup or playoff contenders wanting to move out proven players for kids...wether the value is right or not it rarely happens.
High draft picks are also a way to sell fans and conjure up a level of excitement for teams at the basement of the league.

On the flip side, it makes no sense for a team built to win now to trade proven assets for a pick that is not guaranteed to be anything.

Either way you cut it, the notion of trading Cammy or Plecks for this pick is absurd... especially since it's only the 5th pick in a relatively average draft year.

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06-17-2011, 09:35 AM
  #148
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I'd only consider moving to the 5th pick if Landeskog is available, he's the perfect fit for our centers.

I'd offer Eller, Gorges our 1st and a Palushaj. I'm pretty sure they'd want Patches instead of Eller since they're stacked down the middle but I'm not too sure of moving him as of now.

Gorges I hate to see go, but you need to give to receive and with our D we could let Gorges go and perhaps sign someone to replace him.

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06-17-2011, 09:38 AM
  #149
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Originally Posted by dcal64 View Post
Wish people on this board would know a little about how supply/demand works, there's more demand for a top 5 pick than supply, so yes you will overpay.
Actually, almost half the teams in the top 10 have said to be willing to hear offers. The supply is greater this year. Also, a hockey trade market is not a financial trade market. There are a lot more things to consider than just simple supply and demand, as the value of anything in hockey is left to the subjective views of 30 GMs and their scouts. And those views are often opposite from what fans and media think.

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06-17-2011, 09:40 AM
  #150
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I'd only consider moving to the 5th pick if Landeskog is available, he's the perfect fit for our centers.

I'd offer Eller, Gorges our 1st and a Palushaj. I'm pretty sure they'd want Patches instead of Eller since they're stacked down the middle but I'm not too sure of moving him as of now.

Gorges I hate to see go, but you need to give to receive and with our D we could let Gorges go and perhaps sign someone to replace him.
If we would ever get the 5th with that package (Pal excluded), I'd try to trade up again to get Huberdeau. Although, I think the Isles would aim for Weber rather than for Gorges.

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