I can't believe there are people on this board willing to go through another year of goalie tryouts and not wanting Bryzgalov even if he's "overpaid". Guy is a legit number 1 .....just stop with the nonsense like going with Bob and Boosh and hoping they "get it" this time. Bob still has a good amount of seasoning and tweaking of his game he needs to work through and Boosh..I mean how many times does this guy have to prove he is a career backup??? We can't then rely on him again if Bob can't work out the kinks in his game.....and Leighton not sure why I even brought up his name
edit...and yes trading Hartnell is just not prudent unless you want to soften the team even more. I'm also not convinced we should subtract from the D by trading Carle. With Pronger's back being suspect and Timonen on the decline we need as much depth as possible even with a better goalie. To me it makes more sense to subtract from the forwards like a Versteeg etc
That's the problem though. If we overpay Bryz (I view "overpay" as $6+ million), we're likely going to have to lose more than just Versteeg.
I can't believe there are people on this board willing to go through another year of goalie tryouts and not wanting Bryzgalov even if he's "overpaid". Guy is a legit number 1 .....just stop with the nonsense like going with Bob and Boosh and hoping they "get it" this time. Bob still has a good amount of seasoning and tweaking of his game he needs to work through and Boosh..I mean how many times does this guy have to prove he is a career backup??? We can't then rely on him again if Bob can't work out the kinks in his game.....and Leighton not sure why I even brought up his name
edit...and yes trading Hartnell is just not prudent unless you want to soften the team even more. I'm also not convinced we should subtract from the D by trading Carle. With Pronger's back being suspect and Timonen on the decline we need as much depth as possible even with a better goalie. To me it makes more sense to subtract from the forwards like a Versteeg etc
I couldn't agree more, other than the part about trading Carle.
Would Hartnell be the type of player that would handcuff the Flyers if they decided he was the player that should be moved?
No I don't think so...somebody mentioned he did waive it last year at some point but not sure how true that is. I do know LA likes him but I still don't think it's a good idea to move him. We are already somewhat soft...def not on par with Boston who structured their team very nicely after last year's debacle. Horton was a nice addition until he got shmangled....as well as other players.
That's the problem though. If we overpay Bryz (I view "overpay" as $6+ million), we're likely going to have to lose more than just Versteeg.
Yep, and that is fine.
Gustafsson is a much better prospect than people give him credit for, and while I don't expect him to replace what Matt Carle brings to this team in his first season I certainly feel he will do a decent enough job.
Bobrovsky won't be needed with Bryz locked up here for 5+ years and won't be able to develop and raise his trade value by playing 15-20 games as his backup.
With Versteeg, Carle, and Bobrovsky traded, that frees up more than enough cap space to fit in Bryzgalov and sprinkle in the right pieces to fil out the roster. Not to mention we will be able to get some much needed picks and/or prospects to re-stock a weak farm system through said trades.
I really think people just have to realize how much of an impact and a difference having a stud number 1 goalie like Bryzgalov is going to make for this team.
That's the problem though. If we overpay Bryz (I view "overpay" as $6+ million), we're likely going to have to lose more than just Versteeg.
Yeah I know but I think we have enough options.....I also think we can hold on to Carter which will stem the bleeding on offense unless we get blown away with some offer and somebody is willing to overpay for him.
No I don't think so...somebody mentioned he did waive it last year at some point but not sure how true that is. I do know LA likes him but I still don't think it's a good idea to move him. We are already somewhat soft...def not on par with Boston who structured their team very nicely after last year's debacle. Horton was a nice addition until he got shmangled....as well as other players.
This team needs to get bigger and tougher at forward, not the opposite. That is why you don't trade Hartnell. Also, Hartnell doesn't get the credit he deserves from this fan base. Yes, he has some limitations such as his poor skating, and yes he can act like a dumbass at times. That being said, other than the throw away season where he was going through a divorce he has 24, 30, and 24 goals since coming here. Compare that to similar players with similar contracts (Malone, Penner, Horton) and Hartnell fills his role just fine for this team.
Gustafsson is a much better prospect than people give him credit for, and while I don't expect him to replace what Matt Carle brings to this team in his first season I certainly feel he will do a decent enough job.
Bobrovsky won't be needed with Bryz locked up here for 5+ years and won't be able to develop and raise his trade value by playing 15-20 games as his backup.
With Versteeg, Carle, and Bobrovsky traded, that frees up more than enough cap space to fit in Bryzgalov and sprinkle in the right pieces to fil out the roster. Not to mention we will be able to get some much needed picks and/or prospects to re-stock a weak farm system through said trades.
I really think people just have to realize how much of an impact and a difference having a stud number 1 goalie like Bryzgalov is going to make for this team.
I was more responding to DD saying that trading Hartnell and Carle wouldn't really be desirable. I agree with you that they should do every (non-drastic) thing that they can do to sign Bryz.
This team needs to get bigger and tougher at forward, not the opposite. That is why you don't trade Hartnell. Also, Hartnell doesn't get the credit he deserves from this fan base. Yes, he has some limitations such as his poor skating, and yes he can act like a dumbass at times. That being said, other than the throw away season where he was going through a divorce he has 24, 30, and 24 goals since coming here. Compare that to similar players with similar contracts (Malone, Penner, Horton) and Hartnell fills his role just fine for this team.
The only problem with Hartnell and why he gets more scrutiny than he should is that's he is overpaid...but that is nothing new on this team and not his fault. It doesn't mean though he doesn't fill a very important role on this team. Trading Hartnell is a nonstarter unless there is some other kind of trade that brings in other tougher players at maybe less of a cost.....that's the only thing I can think of that would happen.
The only problem with Hartnell and why he gets more scrutiny than he should is that's he is overpaid...but that is nothing new on this team and not his fault. It doesn't mean though he doesn't fill a very important role on this team. Trading Hartnell is a nonstarter unless there is some other kind of trade that brings in other tougher players at maybe less of a cost.....that's the only thing I can think of that would happen.
If Hartnell is overpaid then so are Dustin Penner, Ryan Malone, and Nathan Horton.
I sometimes look at or think about Hartnell's salary of 4.2 million and I think he is overpaid as well, but if you compare him to guys who play and produce similarly you can't really call him overpaid. I think it's clear that the market has indicated in recent years that a 25 goal, 50 point PF is worth 4 - 4.5 million.
I was more responding to DD saying that trading Hartnell and Carle wouldn't really be desirable. I agree with you that they should do every (non-drastic) thing that they can do to sign Bryz.
Unfortunately like some reported Flyers source said..."To get something good you have to lose something good sometimes" (exact words I can't recall). It's about tradeoff and like with Boston trading Kessel sometimes you make out.
If Hartnell is overpaid then so are Dustin Penner, Ryan Malone, and Nathan Horton.
I sometimes look at or think about Hartnell's salary of 4.2 million and I think he is overpaid as well, but if you compare him to guys who play and produce similarly you can't really call him overpaid. I think it's clear that the market has indicated in recent years that a 25 goal, 50 point PF is worth 4 - 4.5 million.
Sometimes markets don't behave rationally....to me that is not a rational price but it is what it is just like the price of a legit starter....
Unfortunately like some reported Flyers source said..."To get something good you have to lose something good sometimes" (exact words I can't recall). It's about tradeoff and like with Boston trading Kessel sometimes you make out.
Oh, I hear you, you have to give to get. Sucks that the TV revenue isn't going into this year's cap boost instead of next year's.
Versteeg likes to yap and get in people's faces after whistles and he plays hard but I don't think he is someone I would consider a "physical player."
He's a versatile player when healthy.....I liked his game in Chicago but not with Toronto too much and def not with the Flyers although too soon to judge especially with his injury...
I still think he's probably one of the people moving....not ideal but not much choice
He's a versatile player when healthy.....I liked his game in Chicago but not with Toronto too much and def not with the Flyers although too soon to judge especially with his injury...
I still think he's probably one of the people moving....not ideal but not much choice
I like Versteeg, I just don't consider him to be a "physical player," and the bottom line is, a couple of guys are going to have to go. It seems clear at this point that the Flyers have decided not to trade Carter or Richards, so that pretty much leaves Versteeg and Carle as the two most likely candidates to be dealt.
I like Versteeg, I just don't consider him to be a "physical player," and the bottom line is, a couple of guys are going to have to go. It seems clear at this point that the Flyers have decided not to trade Carter or Richards, so that pretty much leaves Versteeg and Carle as the two most likely candidates to be dealt.
I think Versteeg uses his size well, but won't hit at his size like Giroux. Versteeg can do well when healthy and I would like to see that with the Flyers (playing healthy).
Trading Versteeg doesn't improve physicality either. Leino has good puck control but he's soft.
so what do you want to do? scrap signing a true #1, resign Boucher or sign Peter Budaj and roll out our "stacked roster" again? We need a legit no.1 goalie. After Bryzgalov or Vokoun there is no one else I want to be the starter for this team outside the organization. Theodore sucks, Giguere is toast. Who else is there?
We tried it the stacked roster way. It doesnt work. If we nickle and dime the goaltending position again we will never win in the near future.
I know there are no gaurantees. But we need a new approach IMO
so what do you want to do? scrap signing a true #1, resign Boucher or sign Peter Budaj and roll out our "stacked roster" again? We need a legit no.1 goalie. After Bryzgalov or Vokoun there is no one else I want to be the starter for this team outside the organization. Theodore sucks, Giguere is toast. Who else is there?
We tried it the stacked roster way. It doesnt work. If we nickle and dime the goaltending position again we will never win in the near future.
I know there are no gaurantees. But we need a new approach IMO
Trade Carle, let Leino walk, keep shelley, Walker, and Leighton in the minors. See what sort of return Hartnell can net us.
Paying Bryz 6.5 starts getting us into the territory where he could end up being detrimental. Holmgren's cap management isn't good enough to deal withthat.
Trade Carle, let Leino walk, keep shelley, Walker, and Leighton in the minors. See what sort of return Hartnell can net us.
Paying Bryz 6.5 starts getting us into the territory where he could end up being detrimental. Holmgren's cap management isn't good enough to deal withthat.
Oh I am not condoning pay any price for Brygalov. Paying any goalie that much is pretty freakin dumb. If we get him in the 5-5.5 range at 5 years max I can deal with it.
Carle should be traded for a draft pick and or prospect. Leino only saves us what 850k? I dont think Shelley is going anywhere anyway. I know there are some around here who are in love with Hartnell. If we can trade him for the right deal, do it
Leighton and Walker suck and can ride the bus in the AHL.
Oh I am not condoning pay any price for Brygalov. Paying any goalie that much is pretty freakin dumb. If we get him in the 5-5.5 range at 5 years max I can deal with it.
Carle should be traded for a draft pick and or prospect. Leino only saves us what 850k? I dont think Shelley is going anywhere anyway. I know there are some around here who are in love with Hartnell. If we can trade him for the right deal, do it
Leighton and Walker suck and can ride the bus in the AHL.
Yeah, I'd be fine with all of that. I just hate the concept of paying a goalie lots of money just to have a goalie. Yeah, we need a goalie, but let's not go overboard.
If you pay Bryz too much it could be like selling your house to buy a Ferrari. Hurray, you've got a Ferrari! But now you have to live in it.
Yeah, I'd be fine with all of that. I just hate the concept of paying a goalie lots of money just to have a goalie. Yeah, we need a goalie, but let's not go overboard.
If you pay Bryz too much it could be like selling your house to buy a Ferrari. Hurray, you've got a Ferrari! But now you have to live in it.
Are you suggesting there is something wrong with living in a Ferrari?
