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Off Season Thread. Trade Spec/GM Mode - Part III

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Old
06-17-2011, 06:47 AM
  #351
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
I'd love to trade wiz's rights for ericsson's rights.
I'd want a pick added in...Wisniewski is worth a lot more.

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06-17-2011, 07:29 AM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I'd want a pick added in...Wisniewski is worth a lot more.
He is also much harder to sign. Those things balance out.

Also, after watching the Finals, I don't know how anyone can seriously consider grabbing ANY ex-Vancouver D. You are looking into a classic overpayment situation for grossly overhyped players.

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06-17-2011, 07:30 AM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Ketzlaf View Post
He is also much harder to sign. Those things balance out.

Also, after watching the Finals, I don't know how anyone can seriously consider grabbing ANY ex-Vancouver D. You are looking into a classic overpayment situation for grossly overhyped players.
With Lidstrom potentially retiring and Rafalski gone Detroit desperately needs skill and mobility on the blueline.

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06-17-2011, 07:35 AM
  #354
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Habs need to make more adjustments at forward to be a contender. Clarkson in NJ is supposedly available, and the Habs need some help like that. Devils need to clear cap space to re-sign Parise. A Pouliot dump for Clarkson would be ideal.
I don't think the goal is to be a contender ''on paper'', much like the Bruins weren't supposed to be contenders. The goal should be to let the kids play while not committing to dumb contracts (sup Jagr!) to allow PG to resign our important RFAs while saving some cap space for a UFA season that is actually worth it.

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06-17-2011, 07:52 AM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I think Bieksa would be a dispointment as anything more than a #4. He was somewhat exposed in the final. Anything more than 4 mil will look like a bad contract in 2-3 yeras.

I wouldn't mind Ehrhoff or Pitkanen at those numbers, but I think them and Laich will go for another 0.5-0.75 per year in cap hit.

How is Conklin the best back up goalie? He sucked this year. 3.22 GAA and .881%. Auld was miles ahead of him at 2.64 and .914 and would probably re sign for 700-800k.
Bieksa is more than a #4 d-man. He's become underrated ever since his injury, but he's still well above average and easily a very adequate #3 d-man.

Laich won't go for anything more than what Malone has signed a couple of years back. IMHO, they're similar kind of players and Laich's agent should be looking for a similar contract. Long term, 4-4,5M per season.

Conklin had 1 bad season and you take away everything he's done in the past? And you even go further by saying Auld s a better option?... Auld didn't even start 10 games last season. Of course the sample is way less representative... Conklin always was a very good backup, one of the best in the NHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfanwpg27 View Post
This isn't NHL 11

I would like Konopka and Laich tho. I'm still on the fence tho about Jagr, I don't know if he has the speed to match pleks and cammy.
How is spending roughly 10M in one offseason with the capspace we have fantasy hockey? Only in Montreal...

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06-17-2011, 07:55 AM
  #356
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kostitsyn >>> Fleicshman

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06-17-2011, 07:58 AM
  #357
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Originally Posted by BrowsingForACup View Post
Bieksa is more than a #4 d-man. He's become underrated ever since his injury, but he's still well above average and easily a very adequate #3 d-man.
I like Bieksa, but the bottom line on him I think is that what he accomplishes is based on playing hard, fearless, beyond the boundaries of his otherwise limited skill set. So in his good years, he was playing scrappy and aggressive, getting some PP time, and his numbers looked good. But it doesn't take much for a player like that to get stuck in a rut he can't get out of. Sort of like Craig Rivet... who had some nice years for us, but eventually couldn't keep bringing it anymore. So I think Bieksa is going to get overpaid, and I'd be wary of taking him on a long-term contract.
Quote:
Laich won't go for anything more than what Malone has signed a couple of years back. IMHO, they're similar kind of players and Laich's agent should be looking for a similar contract. Long term, 4-4,5M per season.
Malone and Hartnell deals are good comparables, IMHO. I don't think Laich is really *that* good, but nor does anybody else who is still going to be willing to offer him that much.
Quote:
Conklin had 1 bad season and you take away everything he's done in the past? And you even go further by saying Auld s a better option?... Auld didn't even start 10 games last season. Of course the sample is way less representative... Conklin always was a very good backup, one of the best in the NHL.
I don't think the name of the backup matters very much... if Auld was a good teammate, positive influence in the room, then that's enough reason right there to re-sign him. He played okay. I don't think the Habs need more than that. Just make sure we have a #3 guy along the lines of Sanford and MacIntyre who could step up to share the load in the disaster scenario of an injury to Price.

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06-17-2011, 08:02 AM
  #358
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If you go to the NYI's board, you can see there are mixed feelings about Konopka. They all say he is a great team guy, a good faceoff man, and a warrior... but they also say he is terrible at hockey and takes a lot of stupid penalties. Not really someone I'd go for.

Rupp or even Winchester would be better options imo

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06-17-2011, 08:06 AM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
If you go to the NYI's board, you can see there are mixed feelings about Konopka. They all say he is a great team guy, a good faceoff man, and a warrior... but they also say he is terrible at hockey and takes a lot of stupid penalties. Not really someone I'd go for.

Rupp or even Winchester would be better options imo
Within a week or two on our squad he'd be AHL bound or worse, press box bound.

People just want him cause of the stats you mention above but have never even see the guy play. He's borderline useless at actually playing hockey

People just don't realize on the Islanders who have been a borderline half AHL team he's been a 4th liner 3rd on a lucky day.

307 PIM in one season on the 4th line. -14 as well. Yeah he screams "Martin Guy"

PS: In my opinion this season was one of Auld's best as a backup. I'm not talking about stats but rather watching him play. He looked the best that I've seen him. I expected to cringe every time he went in nets but he was a solid backup.

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06-17-2011, 08:08 AM
  #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfan0791 View Post
kostitsyn >>> Fleicshman
Fleischmann >>> Pouliot

We're not trying to replace Kostitsyn, just add another offensive threat to our top 9.

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06-17-2011, 08:15 AM
  #361
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Originally Posted by BrowsingForACup View Post
Laich won't go for anything more than what Malone has signed a couple of years back. IMHO, they're similar kind of players and Laich's agent should be looking for a similar contract. Long term, 4-4,5M per season.

Conklin had 1 bad season and you take away everything he's done in the past? And you even go further by saying Auld s a better option?... Auld didn't even start 10 games last season. Of course the sample is way less representative... Conklin always was a very good backup, one of the best in the NHL.
This is a great analysis of Laich imo. I think the exact same thing now that you mention it, except Laich doesn't have a cup like Malone. I don't think we can afford a Laich contract when we already have Gomer pile and Spacegoat.

+1 about Conklin as well. Only problem is, he's a little too expensive. He'll probably want around $1.5m but maybe after last season, he'll take $1m.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
If you go to the NYI's board, you can see there are mixed feelings about Konopka. They all say he is a great team guy, a good faceoff man, and a warrior... but they also say he is terrible at hockey and takes a lot of stupid penalties. Not really someone I'd go for.
Yea going after a player that the 28th place team doesn't want doesn't = profit imo.

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06-17-2011, 08:17 AM
  #362
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I like Bieksa, but the bottom line on him I think is that what he accomplishes is based on playing hard, fearless, beyond the boundaries of his otherwise limited skill set. So in his good years, he was playing scrappy and aggressive, getting some PP time, and his numbers looked good. But it doesn't take much for a player like that to get stuck in a rut he can't get out of. Sort of like Craig Rivet... who had some nice years for us, but eventually couldn't keep bringing it anymore. So I think Bieksa is going to get overpaid, and I'd be wary of taking him on a long-term contract.
Malone and Hartnell deals are good comparables, IMHO. I don't think Laich is really *that* good, but nor does anybody else who is still going to be willing to offer him that much.

I don't think the name of the backup matters very much... if Auld was a good teammate, positive influence in the room, then that's enough reason right there to re-sign him. He played okay. I don't think the Habs need more than that. Just make sure we have a #3 guy along the lines of Sanford and MacIntyre who could step up to share the load in the disaster scenario of an injury to Price.
I definitely think Bieksa is a huge notch over Rivet, but that wasn't your point, and I know it... IMHO, he'd bring many things to our team and give everything he can to keep the puck... He's not an easy d-man to play against.

Laich in my opinion is definitely in Malone's galaxy. He might be less of a physical/mean/fighting presence, but still is good in that aspect and similar in defensive/offensive parts of the game.

As for the backup, we don't know for sure, but we don't have the depth in the minors to be counting on Auld as a backup. If Price goes down, we become too much of a vulnerable team. There are interesting options in the trade market each and every year, but we'd once again be negociating from a position of weakness. Plus, there's the "Is Price playing too many games in a season" factor.

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06-17-2011, 08:29 AM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
If you go to the NYI's board, you can see there are mixed feelings about Konopka. They all say he is a great team guy, a good faceoff man, and a warrior... but they also say he is terrible at hockey and takes a lot of stupid penalties. Not really someone I'd go for.

Rupp or even Winchester would be better options imo
They actually said "he is terrible at hockey"? Having followed Zenon in junior he is not a terrible hockey player. He's a great guy and is a true team player.

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06-17-2011, 08:33 AM
  #364
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They actually said "he is terrible at hockey"? Having followed Zenon in junior he is not a terrible hockey player. He's a great guy and is a true team player.
He put up 55 and 57 points in the AHL his last 2 full years, he isn't a stiff. At the NHL level though he hasn't produced a ton...22 points in 195 career games.

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06-17-2011, 08:42 AM
  #365
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Originally Posted by Ketzlaf View Post
Also, after watching the Finals, I don't know how anyone can seriously consider grabbing ANY ex-Vancouver D. You are looking into a classic overpayment situation for grossly overhyped players.
I dunno, I'd take Hamhuis. Apparently he was their lynchpin.

But it's exceedingly unwise to judge a player over a short span of games, even if those games are the SCF. I'd even say "especially if". One-time playoff heroes get overpaid for a well-timed performance high all the time; the reverse happens as well though it generally doesn't attract as much attention.

By which I'm not saying that I'd take Bieksa based on his entire body of work, just that 7 games is an awfully small sample to judge a player with.

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06-17-2011, 08:52 AM
  #366
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I dunno, I'd take Hamhuis. Apparently he was their lynchpin.

But it's exceedingly unwise to judge a player over a short span of games, even if those games are the SCF. I'd even say "especially if". One-time playoff heroes get overpaid for a well-timed performance high all the time; the reverse happens as well though it generally doesn't attract as much attention.

By which I'm not saying that I'd take Bieksa based on his entire body of work, just that 7 games is an awfully small sample to judge a player with.
You also have to consider that Bieksa looked overpaid at 3.75 last season. he was playing like a #5-6 d-man.

He brings a physical edge and is not bad defensively, but he isn't the shutdown guy that some on here see. I think the Rivet comparison is not far off though Bieksa skates better, both can look really bad on a bad night.

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06-17-2011, 09:20 AM
  #367
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You also have to consider that Bieksa looked overpaid at 3.75 last season. he was playing like a #5-6 d-man.

He brings a physical edge and is not bad defensively, but he isn't the shutdown guy that some on here see. I think the Rivet comparison is not far off though Bieksa skates better, both can look really bad on a bad night.
Bieksa has always been a playoff performer though. The years he didn't he was plagued with on and off injuries and was having a tough time. When he first came into the league he was the bomb when it came to the playoffs. I've always noted him as a player of interest for that reason. He'll sometimes take a month or two off during the regular season definitely in terms of playing hard, but he more than makes up for it in the playoffs.

This is why when I heard all these Van fans wanted him gone earlier this season, I thought we should go after him ASAP. I knew their GM wouldn't be such a fool though. If anyone knows what a playoff performer Kevin Bieksa is, it's Gillis. I think the only year he didn't perform was 06-07 and judging by the games played in the regular season (usually he doesn't play the full season) I'd say he was likely playing injured/worn out.

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06-17-2011, 09:25 AM
  #368
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Bieksa has always been a playoff performer though. The years he didn't he was plagued with on and off injuries and was having a tough time. When he first came into the league he was the bomb when it came to the playoffs. I've always noted him as a player of interest for that reason. He'll sometimes take a month or two off during the regular season definitely in terms of playing hard, but he more than makes up for it in the playoffs.

This is why when I heard all these Van fans wanted him gone earlier this season, I thought we should go after him ASAP. I knew their GM wouldn't be such a fool though. If anyone knows what a playoff performer Kevin Bieksa is, it's Gillis. I think the only year he didn't perform was 06-07 and judging by the games played in the regular season (usually he doesn't play the full season) I'd say he was likely playing injured/worn out.
Their GM must be a fool then because he was shopping him when Salo was slated to return but he had a couple setbacks and it opened the door for Bieksa to stay.

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06-17-2011, 09:51 AM
  #369
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Their GM must be a fool then because he was shopping him when Salo was slated to return but he had a couple setbacks and it opened the door for Bieksa to stay.
Those were rumors, I don't necessarily feel that this is true. Links?

On HFBoards Eklund says a guy is being shopped, all of the sudden it's a fact that the GM of his team is actively shopping him.

He struggled and a lot of fans wanted him gone, I don't necessarily think that means the GM did, though if he did I'd like to read the link.

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06-17-2011, 09:53 AM
  #370
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Those were rumors, I don't necessarily feel that this is true. Links?

On HFBoards Eklund says a guy is being shopped, all of the sudden it's a fact that the GM of his team is actively shopping him.

He struggled and a lot of fans wanted him gone, I don't necessarily think that means the GM did, though if he did I'd like to read the link.
I'm pretty sure Dreger and McKenzie both said that Bieksa was on the block and they were just waiting for Salo to get cleared for contact before making a move. Those are pretty reliable sources.

I doubt it was just fans...last year his ice time dropped by 90 seconds a game...the 3 years before this one his +- was a combined -20 on a team contending for the conference lead most years.

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06-17-2011, 09:57 AM
  #371
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Their GM must be a fool then because he was shopping him when Salo was slated to return but he had a couple setbacks and it opened the door for Bieksa to stay.
I think Bieksa came on stronger later, but he did have a rougher regular season overall. But that's kind of the thing. He's a competitor and when he's rolling, he contributes and can be a key player. If he's not on a roll, he doesn't have the natural skill to make up for it, and he can look expendable, like maybe he did in the regular season.

All in all, I like him a lot and would take him for $3Mish on a 2-3 year deal. But I just think his playoff profile is likely to raise that pricetag significantly, and I'd probably back down at whatever the market does offer.

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06-17-2011, 10:15 AM
  #372
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My updated plan for the off-season:

Trade Spacek to Edmonton for Souray, or to Columbus for Commodore. Assign either player to Hamilton (AHL) in the Fall.

Sign Markov, 2 years, $10.5M.
Sign Wisniewski, 3 years, $14.1M.
Sign Jagr, 1 year, $4.5M.
Sign Rupp, 1 year, $900K.
Sign Auld, 1 year, $1M.

Re-sign RFAs. Swap Pouliot for a pick or prospect.

FORWARDS
Mike Cammalleri ($6.000m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Jaromir Jagr ($4.500m)
Max Pacioretty ($1.750m) / Scott Gomez ($7.357m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
David Desharnais ($1.000m) / Lars Eller ($1.270m) / Andrei Kostitsyn ($3.250m)
Travis Moen ($1.500m) / Michael Rupp ($0.900m) / Ryan White ($0.850m)
Tom Pyatt ($0.650m) / Mathieu Darche ($0.700m)

DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.250m) / Josh Gorges ($3.000m)
Hal Gill ($2.250m) / P.K. Subban ($0.875m)
Alexei Yemelin ($0.984m) / James Wisniewski ($4.700m)
Yannick Weber ($0.750m)

GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($2.750m) / Alex Auld ($1.000m)

BUYOUTS: Georges Laraque ($0.500m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,787,176; BONUSES: $400,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $412,824

I really think this team is a contender.

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06-17-2011, 11:22 AM
  #373
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I like that team because it's similar to the team I posted

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06-17-2011, 11:44 AM
  #374
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Cammalleri - Plekanec - Kostitsyn
Pacioretty - Gomez - Gionta
Desharnais - Eller - Laich
Darche - Konopka - White

Markov - Yemelin
Gorges - Subban
Gill - Weber

Price
Sanford

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06-17-2011, 11:57 AM
  #375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odishabs View Post
Cammalleri - Plekanec - Kostitsyn
Pacioretty - Gomez - Gionta
Desharnais - Eller - Laich
Darche - Konopka - White

Markov - Yemelin
Gorges - Subban
Gill - Weber

Price
Sanford

Moen is still under contract for another year, and JM will play him for sure. DD is not a winger and never will be.

Laich is not that great and not the best solution for a third line either.

Sanford is a borderline AHL/NHL goalie.

Price MUST not play more than 60-65 games next season. I don't want him to play back to back games on consecutive nites. He always lost one of them anyway.

Let's sign a real good backup: Garon who can easily play 20-25 solid games and do the job IF Price gor injured or got a bad period.

I am not that crazy about Konopka. A guy like McCormick who played in Buffalo or Rupp would be more useful.


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